Topic: Bitfury: "16nm... sales to public start shortly" - page 49. (Read 108494 times)

Suppose you have a million of these ASIC chips.

You can build a thousand different miners using all million chips on your own but you will double/triple the entire network hashrate and make 1/3 of what you are making now.

However if you only use 25% of the chips, and slowly and slowly turn your hardware online, you are making 3x as much with 25% of the chips, and you can sell the other 75%. And since the difficulty is still low, you sell it at a high premium.

I am sure they did the math and realized it would be more profitable to sell some to the public then mine on your own solo.

yea if that's true , which it is, and that's how it's suppose to work but do you really think they will keep it up after they get what they want ? or even gonna do it ? or it's all BS there feeding us . The fact they stopped selling to the public at all is kind of question able after they got what they wanted then.  but what rights 100% of the theoretical mining earnings by selling the rights to those earnings . explain how they have that right if bitcoin are meant to be free and for everyone ,by free I mean not under one groups control,  i understand they have to make back what they put in to it but what rights. you either sell it or you don't, there is no in between in this case . and you can bet they were backed by paper money not bitcoins at some point and will be mostly from banks etc or they are Polly hoping to .

KNC, all over again. but this time with bitfury, I guess the good thing bitfury at least backs what they sell so far . why i don't believe them is a blog some one @ bitfury made about things that happen to his family years ago. if he really meant it then sell to everyone no one is asking for a free ride that i see here just a peace of the pie and are willing to pay a reason able price. he didn't and they will do what ever suits them and hurt the miners .  as a  few others said bitmain could have sold there S7 for 600 or even less and polly sold more and made more if they could have kept up with the supply and demand at a lower price but as it stands it seems they hard a enough time even at the beginning s7 price.and if bitmain buys into this crap, were done .

Sorry, i  just can''t resist saying what i think about bitfury any more to much stuff seems like lies at this point .

 Anyway, i can go on on bottom line is we will be very lucky to see any of it, if your not rich. for the rich it won't mater to much they just get richer .I knew a rich person once before he died my mom was dating it was nothing to him to lose 10 k or more,  he called it a inconvenience, left some of it to my mom, but his sister got control over it all, we got nothing, she got it all . not that we needed it .he had a few mill in assets .
 
CYA

Because it makes more money. The more of your own equipment you put on the network, the lower your returns.

The first miner competes 0% against yourself. After 10% of the network, your miners compete against themselves 10% of the time [shitty metric but its a visualization]. At 50% of the network, the next miner turned on competes half against the rest of the network and half against your own miners, significantly reducing its potential income. But if you distribute hashing power to everyone, you can keep your network percentage lower (and so miner returns better), while also recouping 100% of the theoretical mining earnings by selling the rights to those earnings.

okay we know that immersion lets you make the chips more dense.

but no matter what the tank of coolant is sooner of later it reaches its max in heat storage.  that is why you have fans to toss that heat away.

I see 16 fans  on the container  

those fans are 3 to 4 feet wide  lets say 4

here are the fans you need

http://trianglefans.com/jet-upblast/

http://trianglefans.com/jd/

they have some 42 inch models that will move 30,000 cfm

 I guess 16 of them would work as that is about 500,000 cfm

the avalon6 uses 200cfm to move heat from 1kwatt  and 2000 avalon6's use 2 mega watts so

2000 x 200 = 400,000 cfm  So I guess the air could be moved

I was told last spring that BM1384 could be had by the batch for $2.50 per chip. Assuming they still have some profit on that, and if BM1385 cost about the same to make, a 45-chip S7 would have under $300 worth of ASIC. Not sure what everything else would cost, but I was betting three months ago that they could sell for $600 and still profit (on materials, not necessarily chip dev costs).

I get fed up saying this but people should read a lot more before shooting their mouths off. No one has laid a chip out by hand since the late 1970's - probably about the time your parents were born. This statement was just another piece of bullshit from Bitfury trying to make their chip sound 'special' in some way.

If you want some real, actual informed data about what full custom actually entails then I'm happy to recommend some very good books to you to help reduce your level of ignorance, you clearly don't really understand what full custom means or entails or what good engineers can do with it.

I'll bet that Bitmain make a lot of money on their S7's and could probably reduce it's price to sub $600 and still make a profit, so they have no real need in the near future to make a new chip (although I'm sure they will). They'll continue to make money on their 28nm cash cow for some time. They might even conjure up a containerised system of their own......

Good news. I would love to purchase some of your products with these chips.

Dogie, you're great with these short sentences which subtly suggest inside knowledge, but nless you have access to Bitfurys detailed management accounts then you have no idea what's actually going on, have you?. Yes, they have 16% of the network capacity which should make them about $6m a month net of power costs at BTC=$400, but they have a lot of mouths to feed - just look at the number of executive officers - 12 of them (!) plus another 5 board members and good knows how many hangers on not to mention the actual workers. Then they have to finance development and running costs and presumably they have raised $60M + by making some very challenging promises to their backers.

Why do you think they are selling their Golden Geese?  

Philip: Wouldn't is be possible with immersion cooling with 3M novec 7000 in a 2 phase system?

Maybe forum members should pitch in and form a co-op or LLC to buy one of these 2mW containers hosted at Dalkore if he is interested.
Perhaps 100 shares/slots with some trustworthy individual like Phil to handle payouts.
I can envision people able to invest $10K (maybe 15k or so) participating.
Of course, we would need to know the exact numbers and guarantees as it might be rather thin margins over the whole time.
1/100 of 16ph=160 Th. Right now you pay $34k for that much hashing power, so projecting forward the price for container should be realistically around 1 mil, and not significantly more.
There are too many moving parts, but it could be done, I guess.

and how will you handle  2MW of heat?

I see the top of that container and its fans giving off 4 million btus on the low end and 8 million btus on the high end

the container has about 40 by 10 foot area  so my heat disposal estimates tell me the fans won't be able to move 8 million  btus .  if anyone can tell me more info on this I would love to hear about the heat from those fans.

If you figure all they have right now are engineering samples, could be a while before they have any to hand out to third parties. I think "a month or two" has been the going assumption for when they have actual production chips.

Any timeframe when you might receive these chips ?

That would be perfect actually.
A rather silent 4TH would be awesome, and a 1TH pod is the dream!

You and me both. A 500W 4TH kit would be pretty smexy. Also a 1TH pod and 100GH stick.

Good to hear you are involved. I'd really like to see you making a miner with these chips!

Punin's gotten in touch with me. There's no feasible way I'll get a million bucks but he's working on making small orders possible (if only in a roundabout way) which is definitely nice.

I think it could go beyond this as I am expecting to see a number of 3rd party Miners based on the BF8162C16 chip. They seem to be actively recruiting for "Integrators" http://bitfury.com/products#application-form so am hopeful that there will be a number of options? Let's hope there will be some affordable Miners and that one of them will be Sidehack?

As to the lightbulb I would still like to see it, as hopefully I will be able to afford one and it would be nice to have something low cost to take apart & play with.  


Rich

 How is every transistor on the new chip being laid out by hand a "strange announcement"? Hello, welcome to the definition of FULL CUSTOM DESIGN.

 Care to explain how a full-custom 28nm design like the BM1385 used in the S7 can compete effectively after the halfing against a chip that has demonstrated over twice the efficiency and should still be PROFITABLE by then (it's looking more and more likely that the S7 is going to hit "unprofitable" shortly before the halfing unless you have VERY VERY cheap or FREE electric).

 BitFury's real competiton for their new chip isn't going to be 28nm. It is going to be the upcomming A3, and at some point probably a 14/16nm full-custom chip from Bitmain, and possibly 1 or 2 others eventually going with full-custom at 14/16nm.


I discount KnC's Solar, if they had THAT in full production they'd be showing a lot higher hashrate climb than they've demonstrated since their last annoucement about the thing.



 I also suspect BitFury's claim about "widely available" is STILL talking about that lightbulb thing of theirs.

I have access to 2MW.