Can maths help you win in gambling ? - page 22.

raven7886

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Quote from: Protected101 on November 30, 2017, 04:11:58 AM

I thought it was not about if your a mathatician but based on my experience those gamblers who are expert are good in their math subject ,but I know it depends on luck because we have no statistical explanation when we play gambling.It a luck when you are winning on it and no skills to learn because we not know what happen in a game.

You have said it all bro! It is just pure luck and I wonder what people always think when they feel they could just draw up a strategy to always make them win in gambling. The best form of mathematics that would have helped in gambling is probability, since gambling anyway, is a game of chance.

After all, the thing is, even with the probability, the answer you get is either this or not, and you may not even be lucky enough even when your chances of winning were still high.

julzcoinbit

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Quote from: Jedie22 on November 30, 2017, 03:12:24 AM

Quote from: Dodoymabs on November 29, 2017, 08:11:43 PM

Quote from: wxxyrqa on November 26, 2017, 01:25:28 PM

Quote from: Bladeking on November 26, 2017, 01:58:22 AM

Indeed for gambling we have lots of confusion in it, because it is in gambling we also sometimes confused as to whether that was done right or wrong. But indeed to be able to get many of the advantages we also need calculations i.e. math, because every gambling also have the techniques or strategies so that they can get the victory. If it does not we do or we just let go about what we do, then the results will be obtained as just an unfortunate thing.

The fact is that in most cases, those people who play gambling and who met me, are not more than lucky in this matter. But I've heard a lot of stories about the fact that it is the math experts who are good players. But this was still hoped for by anyone.

Being good at math is an advantage when you're involved in gambling. Especially playing cards because you need to calculate and analyze what was already thrown away. But in other cases like playing dice and roulette it does not require math only lucky is your hope.

In gambling being good in math is not necessary as long as you know the basic mathematics computations. I don't think if you have time to compute the probable of your bet to win. Its just waste your time, all of it will depends on your luck. Expertise in math in gambling is just the same to those who are not good in math, even if they try to computer the probabilty and statistics of every game still the percentage to win is less beacuse in the end it will depends on your fortune.

You're correct mate , expertise in math is not necessary , all the possibilities outcome will depends on our luck. I can't imagine betting in a game you will computing first in order to win its time consuming. Most in gambling can have two possible outcome either win or lose, which usaully 50:50 but still depends the kind of game you try to play like dice which having a less percetage to win having 6 faces.

In addition, mathematics is a broad subject that can compute anything which can relates on the reality having thousands of formulas and theories but during in gambling only our luck can tell if we are lucky enough or not.

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Quote from: n691309 on December 02, 2017, 03:04:20 AM

Quote from: m1c0 on November 27, 2017, 03:36:50 PM

of course maths can help in gambling, I would never gamble on something that has a very bad return on investment, for example 10% chance to win 5x is super bad. Thats why I love sports betting and poker because you can avoid bad deals

Mathematics always help in the thing that maintains the logical behavior throughout the process. Like here in games, you are dealing with many mathematical terms and percentages and profit loses percentages but yes, luck is more effective here. Even mathematics can’t help you if you are on your bad day. Things are not fine in this game so better is to leave this and enjoy the life.

Well,in real life lotteries it does work it.
Know the story of the mathematician who figured out the algorithm of a national lottery and ended up winning it twice ? Proves math can be used to beat up the provable fair systems.Also just for your information,generation of random numbers depends on the CPU power and lot of other computational theories. Truly,there comes a point where system fails and the number generation will fallback in a pattern that will be repetitive.It also depends on the programming language used to generate the numbers..

n691309

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Quote from: m1c0 on November 27, 2017, 03:36:50 PM

of course maths can help in gambling, I would never gamble on something that has a very bad return on investment, for example 10% chance to win 5x is super bad. Thats why I love sports betting and poker because you can avoid bad deals

Mathematics always help in the thing that maintains the logical behavior throughout the process. Like here in games, you are dealing with many mathematical terms and percentages and profit loses percentages but yes, luck is more effective here. Even mathematics can’t help you if you are on your bad day. Things are not fine in this game so better is to leave this and enjoy the life.

michkima

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Quote from: Wall-ET on December 01, 2017, 04:48:37 AM

Quote from: barbara44 on December 01, 2017, 01:07:16 AM

Quote from: Wall-ET on November 27, 2017, 02:57:54 AM

Quote from: BlackPanda on November 24, 2017, 10:07:43 AM

Quote from: gabmen on November 24, 2017, 07:38:29 AM

Quote from: badgalmae on November 23, 2017, 04:56:32 AM

I think it helps with roulette a bit. Of course it depends on luck but I'm talking only about the "help". Also I think if you are a math person you have better options of being a good poker player.

Well it really boils down to what game you're going to use math on. It certainly won't help you on games that's purely luck reliant like dice and slots. Aside from calculating the money you're going to burn of course.

Yes gambling is far from calculating and math is not an option when we play gambling. Gambling games rely solely on luck and that is a matter of course. If you see anyone saying that he can win the gambling with the help of mathematical calculations then it is a lie !! do not believe and use your mind!

So you want to tell me that all casino owners are the luckiest people on the planet, as they allays win!
You are sooo wrong.. you say "gambling is pure luck" then "use your brain"...
What you mean? That you can use your brain to be lucky?!?!?

All games of chance are 100% pure math, so casino owners are using math in order to win 100% guarantee.
There is no luck in this.
If you know what math is and how to use it, then it will help you, if you don't => nothing will help you.

If math’s is that great that it can tell future with hundred percent accuracy then why you don’t just gamble and win every bet. This way you will become the world's richest person in no time, believe me.

As far as the owners of the casino or gambling websites are concerned, they are the owner which means they can win all the games they play as that is their yard. They are the king of that Empire. However I don't think they gamble and nothing can predict luck or future.

Look I said you will win a lotto (6 of 49) if you place all ~14mil combinations. 100% chance of hitting the JP. the problem is that the JP is smaller then the money you will put into the bet, so you will lose money, but you will hit the JP. and there is no luck in the world that will and can change this outcome. This is pure math.
You calculate and you see, to have a 100% chance of hitting the JP you need ~14mil tix, then you see how much is 1 tix and if the JP is bigger you will make money, if not you lose money hitting the JP.
But here no luck can change the outcome...
That was my point. no matter how lucky or unlucky you are you can hit the JP using math, but the question is will it be worth it?
most casinos use math to calculate this and to know what JP to put, so they never lose money.
That is why it is hard to beat real casino if you play there, as they have modified the rules, so they allays win.
And again this is all math and no luck. Else it will mean the casino owners can be only people who are lucky and if you not lucky you never can be casino owner, as there is no casino owner that have gone broke (from running casino properly).

Though that is quite different from gambling itself. The fact is in lotto it is indeed possible to hit the numbers no matter what if you placed a bet on all possible combinations. But usually it would never be worth it to be on all those combinations as it would take more money to do so than what you will win, so no one ever does do it. This is different in games like dice or anything else, since you cannot place a bet on all numbers and you cannot do any math to actually win the game.

Wall-ET

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Quote from: barbara44 on December 01, 2017, 01:07:16 AM

Quote from: Wall-ET on November 27, 2017, 02:57:54 AM

Quote from: BlackPanda on November 24, 2017, 10:07:43 AM

Quote from: gabmen on November 24, 2017, 07:38:29 AM

Quote from: badgalmae on November 23, 2017, 04:56:32 AM

I think it helps with roulette a bit. Of course it depends on luck but I'm talking only about the "help". Also I think if you are a math person you have better options of being a good poker player.

Well it really boils down to what game you're going to use math on. It certainly won't help you on games that's purely luck reliant like dice and slots. Aside from calculating the money you're going to burn of course.

Yes gambling is far from calculating and math is not an option when we play gambling. Gambling games rely solely on luck and that is a matter of course. If you see anyone saying that he can win the gambling with the help of mathematical calculations then it is a lie !! do not believe and use your mind!

So you want to tell me that all casino owners are the luckiest people on the planet, as they allays win!
You are sooo wrong.. you say "gambling is pure luck" then "use your brain"...
What you mean? That you can use your brain to be lucky?!?!?

All games of chance are 100% pure math, so casino owners are using math in order to win 100% guarantee.
There is no luck in this.
If you know what math is and how to use it, then it will help you, if you don't => nothing will help you.

If math’s is that great that it can tell future with hundred percent accuracy then why you don’t just gamble and win every bet. This way you will become the world's richest person in no time, believe me.

As far as the owners of the casino or gambling websites are concerned, they are the owner which means they can win all the games they play as that is their yard. They are the king of that Empire. However I don't think they gamble and nothing can predict luck or future.

Look I said you will win a lotto (6 of 49) if you place all ~14mil combinations. 100% chance of hitting the JP. the problem is that the JP is smaller then the money you will put into the bet, so you will lose money, but you will hit the JP. and there is no luck in the world that will and can change this outcome. This is pure math.
You calculate and you see, to have a 100% chance of hitting the JP you need ~14mil tix, then you see how much is 1 tix and if the JP is bigger you will make money, if not you lose money hitting the JP.
But here no luck can change the outcome...
That was my point. no matter how lucky or unlucky you are you can hit the JP using math, but the question is will it be worth it?
most casinos use math to calculate this and to know what JP to put, so they never lose money.
That is why it is hard to beat real casino if you play there, as they have modified the rules, so they allays win.
And again this is all math and no luck. Else it will mean the casino owners can be only people who are lucky and if you not lucky you never can be casino owner, as there is no casino owner that have gone broke (from running casino properly).

boogiemann

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Yes, Math can help you in betting. Bookmakers use different parameters when setting up odds and if you have some good info and know probability you can spot value and longterm be in profit.

crwth

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Quote from: barbara44 on December 01, 2017, 01:07:16 AM

Quote from: Wall-ET on November 27, 2017, 02:57:54 AM

Quote from: BlackPanda on November 24, 2017, 10:07:43 AM

Quote from: gabmen on November 24, 2017, 07:38:29 AM

Quote from: badgalmae on November 23, 2017, 04:56:32 AM

I think it helps with roulette a bit. Of course it depends on luck but I'm talking only about the "help". Also I think if you are a math person you have better options of being a good poker player.

Well it really boils down to what game you're going to use math on. It certainly won't help you on games that's purely luck reliant like dice and slots. Aside from calculating the money you're going to burn of course.

Yes gambling is far from calculating and math is not an option when we play gambling. Gambling games rely solely on luck and that is a matter of course. If you see anyone saying that he can win the gambling with the help of mathematical calculations then it is a lie !! do not believe and use your mind!

So you want to tell me that all casino owners are the luckiest people on the planet, as they allays win!
You are sooo wrong.. you say "gambling is pure luck" then "use your brain"...
What you mean? That you can use your brain to be lucky?!?!?

All games of chance are 100% pure math, so casino owners are using math in order to win 100% guarantee.
There is no luck in this.
If you know what math is and how to use it, then it will help you, if you don't => nothing will help you.

If math’s is that great that it can tell future with hundred percent accuracy then why you don’t just gamble and win every bet. This way you will become the world's richest person in no time, believe me.

As far as the owners of the casino or gambling websites are concerned, they are the owner which means they can win all the games they play as that is their yard. They are the king of that Empire. However I don't think they gamble and nothing can predict luck or future.

If you know something about probability, then you can never predict something a hundred percent, unless you are cheating. If that happens and you are really lucky that you predicted every bet that you have, then like you said, it would make you rich, but probably not the richest person. If they cheat on you, then that's something sketchy about it and you can never really check it right away.

barbara44

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Quote from: Wall-ET on November 27, 2017, 02:57:54 AM

Quote from: BlackPanda on November 24, 2017, 10:07:43 AM

Quote from: gabmen on November 24, 2017, 07:38:29 AM

Quote from: badgalmae on November 23, 2017, 04:56:32 AM

I think it helps with roulette a bit. Of course it depends on luck but I'm talking only about the "help". Also I think if you are a math person you have better options of being a good poker player.

Well it really boils down to what game you're going to use math on. It certainly won't help you on games that's purely luck reliant like dice and slots. Aside from calculating the money you're going to burn of course.

Yes gambling is far from calculating and math is not an option when we play gambling. Gambling games rely solely on luck and that is a matter of course. If you see anyone saying that he can win the gambling with the help of mathematical calculations then it is a lie !! do not believe and use your mind!

So you want to tell me that all casino owners are the luckiest people on the planet, as they allays win!
You are sooo wrong.. you say "gambling is pure luck" then "use your brain"...
What you mean? That you can use your brain to be lucky?!?!?

All games of chance are 100% pure math, so casino owners are using math in order to win 100% guarantee.
There is no luck in this.
If you know what math is and how to use it, then it will help you, if you don't => nothing will help you.

If math’s is that great that it can tell future with hundred percent accuracy then why you don’t just gamble and win every bet. This way you will become the world's richest person in no time, believe me.

As far as the owners of the casino or gambling websites are concerned, they are the owner which means they can win all the games they play as that is their yard. They are the king of that Empire. However I don't think they gamble and nothing can predict luck or future.

J Gambler

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Quote from: bajing on September 27, 2017, 06:14:30 AM

I just read one article that's about math can help you win at roulette game then i want ask with you all, did you believe math can affect to gambling games? i'm not expert in math so i don't know

this is the article that i readed.
http://theconversation.com/can-maths-help-you-win-at-roulette-69440

Math gives you an edge not a certainty that you would always win but it gives you an edge in calculating the probabilities of each outcome. TO know when you can go all in and how much percentage is the guy you’re playing with bluffing.

Hhampuz

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Meh.

Quote from: cjmoles on November 30, 2017, 03:22:45 PM

Quote from: Hhampuz on November 30, 2017, 01:26:01 PM

Quote from: cjmoles on November 30, 2017, 12:59:14 PM

Quote from: Zero_Cloo on November 30, 2017, 04:56:01 AM

If you're good enough at math you can win consistently at gambling. Not at all gambling - a big part of what the math is there for is to make sure you're always in profitable situations. It will never magically make you win at roulette. But it will let you identify the games and situations you can win at, and if you stick to them you will make money in the long term.

^^^^ Finally, a confirmation that all logic is not lost here. These guys play games that are mathematically losing propositions and then they complain that math can't help them win. It is ridiculous ---> if they did the math then they wouldn't play the games with negative expected values in the first place!

Yep, definitely agree with the both of you. I've seen and have heard from a lot of people about this "issue" that they've done all the math but they still lose, and when I proceed to ask them what kind of games they are playing I' just baffled by the response I'm getting. The majority of these people have no idea what it is they are actually doing and it is as you say, they expect to magically win.. I've been living off of gambling and it was more about living on the edge and keeping your profits above 50% and that's enough. Depending on your bet sizing and overall bankroll that % may vary but as long as you are consistent it should be fine.

The thing that gets me is that we can explain it to these guys over and over again, in every way possible, yet they still insist to place wagers in contests that have negative expected values and when they lose, they blame" luck" instead of "math." If they could wrap their minds around the math and replace their concept of "luck" with an application of "variance," then they'd fair much better in the long run.

Definitely cjmoles.. I guess some people would rather take a chance rather than actually study and understand what it is they are playing around with.

I've tried explaining it once and twice, after that I usually just don't care about it. Their loss I guess Cheesy

.

LuanX3

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Quote from: cjmoles on November 30, 2017, 04:28:01 PM

Quote from: nydiacaskey01 on November 30, 2017, 04:03:37 PM

It wont work in online casino. Maybe in the real world it will help if you are a math wizard but I think being one with that can remember cards that are already out in the table can help score a win. But having that kind of talent is not applicable in online games even if you adjust he settings that favors you to win, there's still a still a percentage that will make you lose.

True. But, if you win 52 percent of the time and you lose 48% percent of the time AND you play a high volume, then you will come out ahead in the long run. And, online games make it easier because you can play a higher volume of games then you can at a brick and mortar casino. You just have to do the math, regulate the bankroll, and play for the long term gains ---> The quick scores/losses are irrelevant in this scope.

Yeah that is true, but again, math never changes your odds of winning in any casino game. Probably if you use it on poker or sports betting then it could increase your chances. But generally, those games still need some level of luck to win. There have been countless games where even a pair ace loses to something like 3s and 2s. It just really depends on luck. Even in sportsbetting, when you studied the game very well, but you cannot really predict if someone got injured, something like that.

cjmoles

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Quote from: nydiacaskey01 on November 30, 2017, 04:03:37 PM

It wont work in online casino. Maybe in the real world it will help if you are a math wizard but I think being one with that can remember cards that are already out in the table can help score a win. But having that kind of talent is not applicable in online games even if you adjust he settings that favors you to win, there's still a still a percentage that will make you lose.

True. But, if you win 52 percent of the time and you lose 48% percent of the time AND you play a high volume, then you will come out ahead in the long run. And, online games make it easier because you can play a higher volume of games then you can at a brick and mortar casino. You just have to do the math, regulate the bankroll, and play for the long term gains ---> The quick scores/losses are irrelevant in this scope.

nydiacaskey01

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It wont work in online casino. Maybe in the real world it will help if you are a math wizard but I think being one with that can remember cards that are already out in the table can help score a win. But having that kind of talent is not applicable in online games even if you adjust he settings that favors you to win, there's still a still a percentage that will make you lose.

cjmoles

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Quote from: oHnK on November 30, 2017, 03:25:10 PM

Quote from: cjmoles on November 30, 2017, 03:22:45 PM

The thing that gets me is that we can explain it to these guys over and over again, in every way possible, yet they still insist to place wagers in contests that have negative expected values and when they lose, they blame" luck" instead of "math." If they could wrap their minds around the math and replace their concept of "luck" with an application of "variance," then they'd fair much better in the long run.

Not really because no matter what we do it wont affect the result for long run even in the long run we are going to lose alot more so there is no point to everything we do. The only thing is not to gamble but alot of people want to keep playing so that is why to enjoy playing then we need to get straight to the idea of only gambling for fun

The casinos win because the odds are in their favor ---> if we only played games where the odds were in our favor, then we would win in the long run too. It's that simple! DON'T GAMBLE WHEN THE ODDS ARE AGAINST YOU UNLESS YOU EXPECT TO LOSE (-EV). ONLY GAMBLE WHEN THE ODDS ARE IN YOUR FAVOR AND YOU WILL COME OUT AHEAD IN THE LONG RUN LIKE THE CASINOS DO (+EV).

oHnK

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Quote from: cjmoles on November 30, 2017, 03:22:45 PM

The thing that gets me is that we can explain it to these guys over and over again, in every way possible, yet they still insist to place wagers in contests that have negative expected values and when they lose, they blame" luck" instead of "math." If they could wrap their minds around the math and replace their concept of "luck" with an application of "variance," then they'd fair much better in the long run.

Not really because no matter what we do it wont affect the result for long run even in the long run we are going to lose alot more so there is no point to everything we do. The only thing is not to gamble but alot of people want to keep playing so that is why to enjoy playing then we need to get straight to the idea of only gambling for fun

cjmoles

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Quote from: Hhampuz on November 30, 2017, 01:26:01 PM

Quote from: cjmoles on November 30, 2017, 12:59:14 PM

Quote from: Zero_Cloo on November 30, 2017, 04:56:01 AM

If you're good enough at math you can win consistently at gambling. Not at all gambling - a big part of what the math is there for is to make sure you're always in profitable situations. It will never magically make you win at roulette. But it will let you identify the games and situations you can win at, and if you stick to them you will make money in the long term.

^^^^ Finally, a confirmation that all logic is not lost here. These guys play games that are mathematically losing propositions and then they complain that math can't help them win. It is ridiculous ---> if they did the math then they wouldn't play the games with negative expected values in the first place!

Yep, definitely agree with the both of you. I've seen and have heard from a lot of people about this "issue" that they've done all the math but they still lose, and when I proceed to ask them what kind of games they are playing I' just baffled by the response I'm getting. The majority of these people have no idea what it is they are actually doing and it is as you say, they expect to magically win.. I've been living off of gambling and it was more about living on the edge and keeping your profits above 50% and that's enough. Depending on your bet sizing and overall bankroll that % may vary but as long as you are consistent it should be fine.

The thing that gets me is that we can explain it to these guys over and over again, in every way possible, yet they still insist to place wagers in contests that have negative expected values and when they lose, they blame" luck" instead of "math." If they could wrap their minds around the math and replace their concept of "luck" with an application of "variance," then they'd fair much better in the long run.

oHnK

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Quote from: cjmoles on November 30, 2017, 12:59:14 PM

Quote from: Zero_Cloo on November 30, 2017, 04:56:01 AM

If you're good enough at math you can win consistently at gambling. Not at all gambling - a big part of what the math is there for is to make sure you're always in profitable situations. It will never magically make you win at roulette. But it will let you identify the games and situations you can win at, and if you stick to them you will make money in the long term.

^^^^ Finally, a confirmation that all logic is not lost here. These guys play games that are mathematically losing propositions and then they complain that math can't help them win. It is ridiculous ---> if they did the math then they wouldn't play the games with negative expected values in the first place!

Yes there is no point to play a game that is designed to make you lose because. I dont say that we dont need to play but Im saying that we cant win so dont try to win or even hope to win. Winning or losing in gambling is about luck, what matter to me is when we are having fun in gambling. Even if we cant win, we can still have fun

Hhampuz

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Meh.

Quote from: cjmoles on November 30, 2017, 12:59:14 PM

Quote from: Zero_Cloo on November 30, 2017, 04:56:01 AM

If you're good enough at math you can win consistently at gambling. Not at all gambling - a big part of what the math is there for is to make sure you're always in profitable situations. It will never magically make you win at roulette. But it will let you identify the games and situations you can win at, and if you stick to them you will make money in the long term.

^^^^ Finally, a confirmation that all logic is not lost here. These guys play games that are mathematically losing propositions and then they complain that math can't help them win. It is ridiculous ---> if they did the math then they wouldn't play the games with negative expected values in the first place!

Yep, definitely agree with the both of you. I've seen and have heard from a lot of people about this "issue" that they've done all the math but they still lose, and when I proceed to ask them what kind of games they are playing I' just baffled by the response I'm getting. The majority of these people have no idea what it is they are actually doing and it is as you say, they expect to magically win.. I've been living off of gambling and it was more about living on the edge and keeping your profits above 50% and that's enough. Depending on your bet sizing and overall bankroll that % may vary but as long as you are consistent it should be fine.

onrise

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Quote from: Parodium on November 30, 2017, 04:15:41 AM

If the type of gambling you're getting into is matched betting or Poker, then of course math can help you win. You can calculate the odds of certain hands appearing, calculate your value bets etc.

In poker it will definitely help you and knowing the cards played will also help to understand the remaining ones. While in rest of the games like roulette, slots machines etc does not require any skills or maths to play such games. Those are like luck based games which help you win or lose the money.

Topic: Can maths help you win in gambling ? - page 22. (Read 6416 times)