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Topic: (Closed) Butter Bot!: Premier Bitstamp, and BTC-E EMA Trading Platform (Closed) - page 46. (Read 274808 times)

member
Activity: 71
Merit: 10
Huh?  You want me to prove that selling at a random time isn't better than what the bot does?  That doesn't even remotely make sense Wink  Done arguing, the math to me is pretty easy.  And since I'm up a few hundred bucks over the last few days, I'm good.
No, no, that part was a supposition, what I want you to prove is your statement that the BOT actually wields profit like you said. So, yeah, just post an example for MtGox that works in all time frame and I'll send you 1BTC.
Pretty simple.
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
Huh?  You want me to prove that selling at a random time isn't better than what the bot does?  That doesn't even remotely make sense Wink  Done arguing, the math to me is pretty easy.  And since I'm up a few hundred bucks over the last few days, I'm good.
member
Activity: 71
Merit: 10
Because I don't have to sit in front of my PC waiting for the EMA lines to cross.  If you believe in the EMA strategy (and forget your btc-e argument there is plenty of historical evidence on all 3 exchanges) then its an easy way to do it.
But why do you need to wait for EMA to cross? Just sell part of your BTC at any random time, and that actually wields greater profit than using this bot.

Please show me that historical evidence. In fact, even easier, please show me any setting that works better than buy and hold in all time frames in Mtgox. I'm willing to send you 1 BTC if you do.
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
I run Linux on my abacus.
I don't know actually what to make of the "predictions" of the backtesting engine. On both BTC-e and Gox I've managed to cook up the following (per exchange) settings:

1wk1m3m6m1y
Gox67%347%616%435%1739%
BTC-e82%352%636%424%4063%

Am I just doing curve fitting? It would seem that the longer the time frame, the less effective curve fitting would be. I'm hesitant to believe the results could be even half this good, so what am I missing? Volatile times of course make for great opportunities...

I've traded alongside the bot now for a week, but I still don't trust it since this volatility seems to throw the EMA off, but maybe I'm looking at too small time frames. I guess I'm just looking at input from others so I could skip staring at the charts all day, trying to catch the waves Tongue

edit: While the bot turned a $1.1k investment in BTC-e to 1.4k in a week, in the same time on Gox manual trading yielded from 12k to 20k results (which is pretty bad considering how volatile the market's been), but I've not been sitting at the 'puter all day...
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
Because I don't have to sit in front of my PC waiting for the EMA lines to cross.  If you believe in the EMA strategy (and forget your btc-e argument there is plenty of historical evidence on all 3 exchanges) then its an easy way to do it.
member
Activity: 71
Merit: 10
If I bought 1 BTC and held it how am I making more than when I bought 1, sold for a profit, bought back but even more on a dip, sold more at a profit, etc;  Buy and hold only makes more if you are never buying back on a dip.  Which isn't whats going on here Wink
Great, then according to what you just said, why is using this bot better than buying a BTC today, then selling part of it next week, and so on and so on?
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
If I bought 1 BTC and held it how am I making more than when I bought 1, sold for a profit, bought back but even more on a dip, sold more at a profit, etc;  Buy and hold only makes more if you are never buying back on a dip.  Which isn't whats going on here Wink
member
Activity: 71
Merit: 10
I get that some people prefer to accumulate BTC over USD.  That said, I don't understand why those people keep harping in this thread.  Some of us prefer to make USD.  We're happy.
That's not the issue. The issue is that many people don't understand that when they start using this bot, because the backtesting is made in a way that it makes you think this bot is fantastic and gives you huge profits by only showing the USD amounts.

You are actually accumulating much more USD over BTC if you just don't use the bot. In the even of a market downward trend, guess what, this bot would not only not make any profit, but it would take your money away even faster.

People fiddling with the numbers to get real profit in BTC-e, just understand that just works exactly in BTC-e and in the past, because it's a recent trader which had low volume when you check the 1 year backtesting. Don't you really wonder why you can't do the same in MTGox of Bitstamp? And don't you really wonder why is that that the setting that give up profit in a 1 year frame, give you losses in a 30 or 90 days one?
legendary
Activity: 1183
Merit: 1000
Refund has been issued, it took me a few minutes since Xorred bought a few hours ago and those purchases hadn't made it into the logs.

Pablo.
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
The problem is the bot initiates whatever trade it should when activated no matter how far away from the actual cross event you are which, in this volatile market, can mean a quick loss.  That said anyone who activates a bot on an account with 10 BTC and doesn't understand how it works is nuts to me.
full member
Activity: 166
Merit: 100
the recommended was 2 hours. I set it to 1 hour - other than that, all settings were the same as in your e-mail/PDF.

There was only 2 trades - and from 10.5 I fell to 9.6. I have sent you 2 e-mails already to the e-mail address, including a link to this thread.
legendary
Activity: 1183
Merit: 1000
legendary
Activity: 1183
Merit: 1000
I bought the bot...  and it buys high, so far - I had 10.5 btc, now I have 9.6 BTC - that's 890 usd loss.
I demand a full refund of the paypal funds and I demand it publicly.

Transaction ID: 3KY5974955717340M

Hi Xorred :=),
    Very happy to accomodate you, please drop me an email at [email protected] and I will be happy to take care of you. I have some questions regarding what settings you are running because depending on your exchange you should have seen no trades to 2 trades over the past several days.

Also, I've said this ad nauseum, EMA is a LONG TERM STRATEGY, you purchased Butter a few days ago in a mean deviating market. You lost some funds on a strategy that is expected to yield 70% small losses and 30% profit trades; profit covering all small losses plus a healthy profit OVER TIME.

YOU PURCHASED TODAY

You can't expect to run a trading software and profit marvelously over a couple of days, anyone who promises this is lying to you, we are very up front about EMA requiring a long term commitment. There are very thorough discussions on this on this thread and on Goomboo's (upon which Butter is based). I wish you would have taken the time to learn about the trading strategy first.

Look forward to your email Smiley.

Pablo.
full member
Activity: 166
Merit: 100
I bought the bot...  and it buys high, so far - I had 10.5 btc, now I have 9.6 BTC - that's 890 usd loss.
I demand a full refund of the paypal funds and I demand it publicly.

Transaction ID: 3KY5974955717340M
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
Hey look if there's a bot that can increase both my BTC and my USD then awesome.  In the mean time I want more USD and the bot is accommodating me there.  Amy tweaks that are positive that's great.  Yesterday for instance I knew that approaching $900 we would likely see a lot of resistance so I paused the bot and manually sold at $885.  If I had waited for the lines cross I would have lost out.  But hey, maybe I would have been wrong and it broke through $900 and I was out of luck.  Thankfully I was right this time and the line cross came last night so I unpaused the bot and let it do its thing this morning on the upswing Smiley  Yes this took watching the bot, watching the charts, and a guess based somewhat on past events.  If I had left the bot alone what would have happened?  I would have missed out on something like $60/BTC profit waiting for the lines to cross but I also wouldn't have been sitting in front of my PC all day Smiley
sr. member
Activity: 267
Merit: 250
Over the past few days, using the default BTC-e settings, it seems there was some strange trades...

Bought at 642. Sold at 643
Bought at between 653 and 659. Sold at 691 even though the price went as high as 740.
Then this morning, I got a buy order imminent and it was going to buy back at 735.

I guess this is due to the lagging nature of the EMA algorithm?

This is frustrating. It's showing a small profit, but it's a bit long in between analyzing trades, it seems.
newbie
Activity: 35
Merit: 0
I get that some people prefer to accumulate BTC over USD.  That said, I don't understand why those people keep harping in this thread.  Some of us prefer to make USD.  We're happy.

You can do both actually, but it involves trading manually. Smiley
newbie
Activity: 59
Merit: 0
I get that some people prefer to accumulate BTC over USD.  That said, I don't understand why those people keep harping in this thread.  Some of us prefer to make USD.  We're happy.

more btcs  = more dollars.

but to make dollars is just a fact of hold bitcoins, the bot is losing the btc's at lot of trades to cut of loses, it just don't profit the drops to win money, bot only follow the trend, it really needs rules to trigger buys when its posssible win money.

Sell High, buy low

bot just sell high, and buy high most of the time, that means lose money
unless the difference is so high it takes a tiny profit and thanks to the fact bitcoin price rises, then the profit looks huge, when its very very low in fact.


i think this bot could be one of the best on the market, and the price is reasonable, it just need a simple but strong tweak to work,
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
I get that some people prefer to accumulate BTC over USD.  That said, I don't understand why those people keep harping in this thread.  Some of us prefer to make USD.  We're happy.
newbie
Activity: 59
Merit: 0
the main problem following trend by EMA lines is that lot of times, you end up losing bitcoins due the fact EMA lines
have a "lag" showing the trend because they need strong change values to cross themself

so the single way you make monye here is when trend are long and with high value discrepancy,
you can't take advantage of sudden drop values, thats why i think the bot needs a better way to manage buy/sells when EMA indicator give an alert.

for example,  at 22 Trades,  in 2 months, the bot managed to "win" a 593%,
this "win" is just thanks to the fact bitcoin price rised a lot,
but at 22 negative trends there are 14 of them that return negative balance, so those negative trends were not profitable due the way
EMA lines work themself,

for example, day

19-11-2013 at 12:24- there was a sell at 600$ following a drop trend

the price hit around 450 or maybe less, thats a 25% price drop,





and what did bot do? well... same that it did in those 13 oportunities, just wait until follow the trend, and from 414% profit, turned to 413%
i know its short lose, and the bot is not trying to squeeze all single drop oporunities due the fact there is no trading engine, just indicator follower

if the non greddy system explained in my last post was triggered, just at 10% drop, would had been enough to get an nice extra profit there,
if from 22 trades, 14 are losed trades, means 63% of the time it catches a dropping trend, was 0% squezzed, it just cut off loses buying back when the trend rises again,

this scenario happened 63% of the trades in 2 months,  and this means 63% of the "buy cheap" oportunities was lost and  the sentence theory "sell high, buy low" was not profitable at those point.

With simple personalized rules for trigger buy events on a % market price drop, the profit would had been much higher and the drop trend oportunities much better squeezed,
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