Topic: CryptoKingdom Uncensored - page 16. (Read 69696 times)

Really cool to see some activity around CK again

I agree, don't dilute M anymore with an airdrop on gold holders, there's a few land whales around with cash balances looking too small to maintain them once taxation resumes, and that'll mean some bargains 

Better to leave game money supply as is IMO, then whales who withdrew during Risto's artificial peg have to deposit XMR to get skin back in the game, if they want to be a major player that is

If you airdrop on CKG it reduces the incentive for those who withdrew to 'commit' to the game, and some will have enough CKG to reload on game currency without depositing anything at all. If that is what the community wants then so be it, but I'd prefer no dilution of M in favor of those who cashed out, I don't like the idea of gifting game currency to people who might just withdraw it instantly anyway. Don't forget, some players withdrew over 500K USD in XMR and BTC at current prices, so it's not like they can't afford to deposit some hard crypto now to get game money, assuming they want to be major players again. 'M' is pretty cheap now too!

Resetting time is a good idea.




Name change of game currency M to "Crypto Kingdom Gold" is a good move too, but I'd prefer not to include the original CKG (i.e. CKGB) in any new airdrop of game currency, mainly because I don't think we'll get unanimous agreement on the details (opinions will depend on what's in people's respective bags) so I think we'll get bogged down in arguments, but continuing with the status quo is a neutral position, a bit like the ongoing debate in XMR community over whether to change the emission schedule back in 2014/15. Once it became obvious strong opinions were present on both sides only viable option was status quo (i.e. do nothing, no change).

Old CKG holders can get other benefits, maybe in health or wisdom, or maybe a dividend of some kind. Could change the name to Platinum to avoid confusion, CKP.

So obviously any changes/developments/etc. won't happen overnight, but I'd like to start soliciting the community to see thoughts/comments in two main areas:

(1) bugfixes
(2) gameplay

Of course, general CK talk is always welcome!

If relevant, please link any old CK thread posts or CK wiki pages or anything else that provides additional insight. Thanks!

Let me touch on two items I discussed earlier:

Game Timing - BCKT/CKT

So I'm fairly confident that we reset the game time to 0 CKT. "CKT" still isn't the "final" naming methodology, but I want to try and avoid direct comparisons with any "real world" time conventions like BC/BCE. All current items will be sufficiently aged to an appropriate "BCKT" time.

iluvbitcoins said this adds to the "mythical" element of the game and I agree. Even if we kept at 1 real world week = 1 year in-game CKT, in just a year we'd be at only 52 CKT. And, since there aren't any specific expectations of what technology/development a world has at 52 CKT with an unknown amount of prehistory, it won't be a surprise if we have flying cars in 520 CKT

Game Currency - Unlocking CKG?

As I said earlier, I agree with HMC that "Crypto Kingdom Gold" is a far better name for an in-game currency than the "Markkas" we have now. However, there is always that sticking issue of roughly 1,000,000 CKG floating around in bars and items. Yes, we could rename CKG to something else and then rename M to CKG, but what can be better than gold?

What about this. Current CKG becomes CKGB (Crypto Kingdom Gold Bars) that can be smelted down to 1,000,000 CKG per 1 CKGB. During a later airdrop of blockchain-based CKG (formerly M), 5 trillion blockchain CKG are airdropped, with roughly 1 trillion of that going to CKGB holders.
 
If owners want to spend the "intrinsic" CKG in each CKGB directly, they have to smelt the item/bar/palace roof down. Items like HM02B100 and HM02B1000 will still be tradeable in-game for CKG/M, and can of course trade at a premium to their "intrinsic" CKG value.

Finally some good news then

The general stance is obviously just do it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXsQAXx_ao0

Don't think there will be much disagreement if we're getting stuff done.


Me too 

The situation looks more promising for CK now than it has for +2 years, I think (nearly) everyone is on the same page now, if there's going to be baton changes to new people it looks like everyone on both sides is willing to see the changes happen, so fork option is probably not needed, but available still if needed. Nobody is being excluded, numbers involved in this die-hard community are small enough to let self-selection decide who does what.

I'm bullish on 'M'

Just to be clear, the new website suggestion was in case people really did want to continue with the status quo (waiting on PJ and Speed or some other alternative), which does not seem to be the case. I guess in hindsight, I shouldn't have used the word "fork"

PJ has been responsive so far in terms of passing information/data on, so we should be able to keep using the cryptokingdom.me domain.

Also, PJ said he had some communication with Speed a long while ago, but then nothing. Speed has not been seen in the CK Slack or IRC for a while as well.

Speed is welcome to be part of this initiative later, but I agree with the overall plan outlined so far and we have better developer talent in place now. For example, you should see some of the developer comments on the CK Ryver that discuss a possible long-term approach to more decentralization/security.

The developer has already been reviewing the CK code and has been added to the CK Slack to talk to PJ. Things are looking good!

I don't see the purpose of making a new website except for if someone wants to take control in this "takeover".

Everything we can do with the fork, we can do with this website.

I might be mistaken, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

Regarding PJ, he's a dead end.
I trust Speed has good intentions and capabilites but it's going on too slowly..
We can all bullshit here, but instead we could try to find a dev we all need.

II don't think fork is necessary. However purchasing property is broken, has been for a long time... hard to defend. I dont see how any developments efforts would do anything but benefit from PJ and Speed being involved. However we have motivated people, motivated devs, people who are ready to go. Honestly... purchasing property is broken and has been shamefully long. The village overview is black. Development is so slow as to be negligible. Apparently code structure is of sound quality at its core so insult intended on that.. If PJ + Speed would be open continuing at their regular place while hard work gets cranked out by others, i dont see the need for two sites, two forks. I'm 100% speculating, but honestly, some of the previous devs might be relieved to be released from responsibilities of this project. And considering you cant even buy property we have a defunct product which is essentially unusable. BLack map... These bugs are identified already in the source, and dev is hungry to get to work. Whether its under CK or fork of CK, i dont see waiting around for a non-black map and purchasing of property to lose the syntax error   .... which has gone unnoticed for really way too long .... to be a serious endeavor worthy of the time and talents of the people floating around here.

I love this proposal, we won't have to restart time once we reach a certain period and it adds a certain mystical aspect to the game, since it is it's own world.


We already have an IRC channel.

Everyone interested in an easy to join alternative to IRC to discuss Crypto Kingdom, please use Gaben's Ryver link:

https://cryptokingdom.ryver.com/application/signup/members/njw9Z-TTBMjyruB

Thank you for this! I've joined. Also recommend others join as well and we can see if HMC will change the OP of this thread to have a link.

The first step that needs to happen is we need PJ to provide a publicly accessible CK codebase repository and help with a clean cloning of the game and item database at a specified point in time so that no items or transactions are lost.

This time will be announced in advance and then once it happens, the cryptokingdom.me site should be paused for new transactions while the clone happens. Afterwards, PJ or someone else is welcome to continue on the cryptokingdom.me site.

We need a secondary and public copy first. Here's why: I logged into the CK slack. Last public message was from Nov. 8 asking if PJ could fix a site/bug issue. Before this, last public message from PJ was Oct. 18. PJ is unfortunately a bottleneck and I am willing to pay to get him to put the game and database in a place where it can be worked on by others.

I posted a public message for PJ on Dec. 30 and preliminarily he seems interested in doing what needs to be done, so that is good to hear.

Agree on the "basic economic engine" aspect. To a degree, I think a review and a reimplementation of what he had somewhat before Risto paused the game is a good place to start. After that, honestly just looking at Risto's earlier notes and the like could be a good place for implementation. It's clear, at the start at least, that Risto had more planned than what was implemented.

I have created a ryver channel with an open Registration link:

CryptoKingdom.ryver.com

The open registration is here:

https://cryptokingdom.ryver.com/application/signup/members/njw9Z-TTBMjyruB

I think the style of communication ryver provides could stand to benefit CK immensely as you can more easily run automated tasks and stuff. Anyone joining should be a member than can make new chat rooms and other things.

Of course slack can pretty much do the same thing, but I don't currently see a publicly accessible joining link. This ryver is open to anyone in control of an email address that can receive and follow a verification link.

Also, I've been in btctalk since Jan 1 2014, in crypto a little bit before then, been holding monero since a few minutes from the genesis block, and followed CK since its launch and joined around a year after it launched. Point being - this ryver isn't going anywhere and I can always be reached within a reasonable amount of time.

I'm not sure how the depository holders could move to a new version without some sort of agreement in place yet.

I appreciate IRC for where it's gotten us so far, but I think more advanced chat facilities could move us to a next step.

I think we're really gonna have to hammer out some well defined details of at least a 'basic economic engine' in order to have a developer implement the details. Specifically, how to make it a balanced basic economic engine .. which would probably require some basic math and numbers.

Agree on the private slack: public is better. But don't worry, there has been very little activity on there and it's main purpose has been to try to get in touch with PJ as far as I can tell. I myself used it today to offer PJ payment to put the into place a database and game logic cloning for CK:R.

Just to provide a little more detail on the current concept: ideally, we'd want the "fork date" announced ahead of time, then a pause in the cryptokingdom.me site for site cloning, and then cryptokingdom.me can continue as it has been or be retired. All assets and items would move over to the CK:R implementation.

About the only item of concern would be M3/XMR, but if everyone chooses to go with CK:R, the depo can just move there. Otherwise, iluvbitcoins/saddam is welcome to open a XMR (or any other cryptocurrency) depo on CK:R.

There is the CK IRC channel at ##cryptokingdom which is more active. That is open to everyone. Until someone makes a public slack or other sort of easily accessible channel, I would recommend this for live discussion. Again, if someone wants to create and maintain an open slack channel for CK/CK:R in general, they are welcome to.

In terms of 'advanced economic engines' I think that is more in line with things that were planned down the road, like different professions for players that also had a use to other players. Honestly I spent a few hours recently going through the old CK wiki (http://cryptokingdom.wikia.com/wiki/Crypto_Kingdom_Wiki) and was really surprised to see Risto talked about many of the the things we always wanted right from the start. Just too much to really cover.

Ideally, CK:R will be modular where people can create their own mods/aspects in a non-techie friendly fashion (or at least with very clear technical hookups and API items). The original problem with CK is that there was too much reliance on Risto. Games have always done best when opened up to the world at large to create.

On the 'basic' side, that would be getting the game going again in bug-free fashion with the rent and labor pools up, as well as possibly some minor consumption needs. Overall, maybe going back to some of the gameplay of the early "Ultima" implementation. Any comments or economics suggestions here are welcome, especially from older players.

All this relaunching talk is at risk of being a wash as long as it's mostly talked about here.

Maybe a non private slack or ryver chat would be feasible as far as keeping the flow of information logical?

Also neat ideas so far fellas

One question, and I still think the conversation needs to take place in a ryver/slack channel - we keep saying 'basic economic engine' and I don't think I've seen that well defined anywhere. Could someone put together a list of what they think a 'basic economic engine' is along with a 'advanced economic engine' or whatever other tiers of economic engines exist in ck?

In-Game Currency Name

HMC did have a really good point before that "gold" is a good name for an in-game currency as people have an expectation of gold holding that function based on playing other MMORPG style games.

In this case, I recommend the current in-game currency (M) becoming CKG (Crypto Kingdom Gold) in CK:R. For all earlier discussions, replace CKM with CKG for these purposes as well.

Naturally, this opens the issue as we already have an in-game amount of gold also called CKG in the amount of roughly 1,000,000 units. Now this could be replaced with another element or name. One option would to be just to give the current CKG a qualifier. Maybe CKAG or CKRG for CK Artisanal Gold or Refined Gold. Of course name is still a placeholder. Would recommend making the same name change (whatever is chosen) with silver (CKS) in game.

HIGH ;P May start randomly throwing out some concepts/ideas for discussion...

Game Time Period Naming

In the Crypto Kingdom Relaunch (CK:R to save typing, but don't worry, that isn't the name), I would recommend restarting the game at a base time of zero.

Why? A couple reasons. One is that we need to disconnect from specific real world associations and expectations. I believe we have long been paused at 1691, but we have no where near the development/tech/etc. to mirror that real time period. Related, I would also recommend removing CryptoTown's placement on any world map. We should be kingdom in a large, shadowy unknown with the only tooltip when hovering over the dark fog is "here be dragons"

Say we use 0 CKT or "Crypto Kingdom Time", or we can use 0 CKE for "Crypto Kingdom Era". We will keep all prior items and they will be based on BCKT/BCKE.

Looking at the Agora Marketplace, the oldest item is WRL-1 "Hundreds of papyri" from 1000. The age on this would be 1691 - 1000, or 691 BCKT/BCKE. Ignoring WOS-F "Servant Grey Clothes" which somehow has a 1699 date, the newest item is the "Phoenix Medal" from 1690. The age on this would be 1691 - 1690, or 1 BCKT/BCKE.

The added value of this is we automatically create an "antiques" market for these old items, many of which do not have a point and may never have a point. As they are from an era that will never come again (BCKT/BCKE), they are precious rarities.

And while the progression of game time compared to real world time is still to be discussed, if, say, we as a community end up with a cyberpunk world of purple hues out of the pages of "Ready Player One" in 350 CKT, it won't seem as odd or weird

Agreed, and that is the plan at the moment. Restart the basic economic engine and fix bugs. Introduce the ability for the community to drive and vote on changes moving forward.

At the same time, during this build out we want to look for places where modular design and moddabilty can happen. Say if a non-technical user wants to create a new item and the related cottage economy of that item. We want them to be able to do that.

Same thing with some quality of life improvements. Say something easier to work with than CLI for trading and gameplay, for example.

Finally, on the topic of "cards" and other blockchain assets, like EncryptedCharms and PepeCash, one area is to have the tech in place where people can "hook" in blockchain assets (looking at that same "modular" idea from above) and create items in the game that interact with them. So if AP/KC or whoever wants to put "Avarice's Wand" and "Melody's Orb" in the game, they can do that and then have it interact with the related blockchain assets.

Keep the discussions/comments coming!

What the Game needs most right now is to have the basic economic engine restarted, and that means fixing things like building payouts, tax, health challenge etc, so people can actually play CK. If that happened the 'social network' of CK would revive, and then we'd all be in a better position to discuss larger changes.

If PJ can't restart the economic engine, but someone else can, then just do that for now, and I don't think anyone will complain as we'll be able to play CK again, and then communication channels that are basically dead now will revivie.

Leave the bigger decisions for down the road IMO, concentrate on making what we have 'playable' again.