Topic: CryptoKingdom Uncensored - page 16. (Read 69479 times)

Just to be clear, the new website suggestion was in case people really did want to continue with the status quo (waiting on PJ and Speed or some other alternative), which does not seem to be the case. I guess in hindsight, I shouldn't have used the word "fork"

PJ has been responsive so far in terms of passing information/data on, so we should be able to keep using the cryptokingdom.me domain.

Also, PJ said he had some communication with Speed a long while ago, but then nothing. Speed has not been seen in the CK Slack or IRC for a while as well.

Speed is welcome to be part of this initiative later, but I agree with the overall plan outlined so far and we have better developer talent in place now. For example, you should see some of the developer comments on the CK Ryver that discuss a possible long-term approach to more decentralization/security.

The developer has already been reviewing the CK code and has been added to the CK Slack to talk to PJ. Things are looking good!

I don't see the purpose of making a new website except for if someone wants to take control in this "takeover".

Everything we can do with the fork, we can do with this website.

I might be mistaken, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

Regarding PJ, he's a dead end.
I trust Speed has good intentions and capabilites but it's going on too slowly..
We can all bullshit here, but instead we could try to find a dev we all need.

II don't think fork is necessary. However purchasing property is broken, has been for a long time... hard to defend. I dont see how any developments efforts would do anything but benefit from PJ and Speed being involved. However we have motivated people, motivated devs, people who are ready to go. Honestly... purchasing property is broken and has been shamefully long. The village overview is black. Development is so slow as to be negligible. Apparently code structure is of sound quality at its core so insult intended on that.. If PJ + Speed would be open continuing at their regular place while hard work gets cranked out by others, i dont see the need for two sites, two forks. I'm 100% speculating, but honestly, some of the previous devs might be relieved to be released from responsibilities of this project. And considering you cant even buy property we have a defunct product which is essentially unusable. BLack map... These bugs are identified already in the source, and dev is hungry to get to work. Whether its under CK or fork of CK, i dont see waiting around for a non-black map and purchasing of property to lose the syntax error   .... which has gone unnoticed for really way too long .... to be a serious endeavor worthy of the time and talents of the people floating around here.

I love this proposal, we won't have to restart time once we reach a certain period and it adds a certain mystical aspect to the game, since it is it's own world.


We already have an IRC channel.

Everyone interested in an easy to join alternative to IRC to discuss Crypto Kingdom, please use Gaben's Ryver link:

https://cryptokingdom.ryver.com/application/signup/members/njw9Z-TTBMjyruB

Thank you for this! I've joined. Also recommend others join as well and we can see if HMC will change the OP of this thread to have a link.

The first step that needs to happen is we need PJ to provide a publicly accessible CK codebase repository and help with a clean cloning of the game and item database at a specified point in time so that no items or transactions are lost.

This time will be announced in advance and then once it happens, the cryptokingdom.me site should be paused for new transactions while the clone happens. Afterwards, PJ or someone else is welcome to continue on the cryptokingdom.me site.

We need a secondary and public copy first. Here's why: I logged into the CK slack. Last public message was from Nov. 8 asking if PJ could fix a site/bug issue. Before this, last public message from PJ was Oct. 18. PJ is unfortunately a bottleneck and I am willing to pay to get him to put the game and database in a place where it can be worked on by others.

I posted a public message for PJ on Dec. 30 and preliminarily he seems interested in doing what needs to be done, so that is good to hear.

Agree on the "basic economic engine" aspect. To a degree, I think a review and a reimplementation of what he had somewhat before Risto paused the game is a good place to start. After that, honestly just looking at Risto's earlier notes and the like could be a good place for implementation. It's clear, at the start at least, that Risto had more planned than what was implemented.

I have created a ryver channel with an open Registration link:

CryptoKingdom.ryver.com

The open registration is here:

https://cryptokingdom.ryver.com/application/signup/members/njw9Z-TTBMjyruB

I think the style of communication ryver provides could stand to benefit CK immensely as you can more easily run automated tasks and stuff. Anyone joining should be a member than can make new chat rooms and other things.

Of course slack can pretty much do the same thing, but I don't currently see a publicly accessible joining link. This ryver is open to anyone in control of an email address that can receive and follow a verification link.

Also, I've been in btctalk since Jan 1 2014, in crypto a little bit before then, been holding monero since a few minutes from the genesis block, and followed CK since its launch and joined around a year after it launched. Point being - this ryver isn't going anywhere and I can always be reached within a reasonable amount of time.

I'm not sure how the depository holders could move to a new version without some sort of agreement in place yet.

I appreciate IRC for where it's gotten us so far, but I think more advanced chat facilities could move us to a next step.

I think we're really gonna have to hammer out some well defined details of at least a 'basic economic engine' in order to have a developer implement the details. Specifically, how to make it a balanced basic economic engine .. which would probably require some basic math and numbers.

Agree on the private slack: public is better. But don't worry, there has been very little activity on there and it's main purpose has been to try to get in touch with PJ as far as I can tell. I myself used it today to offer PJ payment to put the into place a database and game logic cloning for CK:R.

Just to provide a little more detail on the current concept: ideally, we'd want the "fork date" announced ahead of time, then a pause in the cryptokingdom.me site for site cloning, and then cryptokingdom.me can continue as it has been or be retired. All assets and items would move over to the CK:R implementation.

About the only item of concern would be M3/XMR, but if everyone chooses to go with CK:R, the depo can just move there. Otherwise, iluvbitcoins/saddam is welcome to open a XMR (or any other cryptocurrency) depo on CK:R.

There is the CK IRC channel at ##cryptokingdom which is more active. That is open to everyone. Until someone makes a public slack or other sort of easily accessible channel, I would recommend this for live discussion. Again, if someone wants to create and maintain an open slack channel for CK/CK:R in general, they are welcome to.

In terms of 'advanced economic engines' I think that is more in line with things that were planned down the road, like different professions for players that also had a use to other players. Honestly I spent a few hours recently going through the old CK wiki (http://cryptokingdom.wikia.com/wiki/Crypto_Kingdom_Wiki) and was really surprised to see Risto talked about many of the the things we always wanted right from the start. Just too much to really cover.

Ideally, CK:R will be modular where people can create their own mods/aspects in a non-techie friendly fashion (or at least with very clear technical hookups and API items). The original problem with CK is that there was too much reliance on Risto. Games have always done best when opened up to the world at large to create.

On the 'basic' side, that would be getting the game going again in bug-free fashion with the rent and labor pools up, as well as possibly some minor consumption needs. Overall, maybe going back to some of the gameplay of the early "Ultima" implementation. Any comments or economics suggestions here are welcome, especially from older players.

All this relaunching talk is at risk of being a wash as long as it's mostly talked about here.

Maybe a non private slack or ryver chat would be feasible as far as keeping the flow of information logical?

Also neat ideas so far fellas

One question, and I still think the conversation needs to take place in a ryver/slack channel - we keep saying 'basic economic engine' and I don't think I've seen that well defined anywhere. Could someone put together a list of what they think a 'basic economic engine' is along with a 'advanced economic engine' or whatever other tiers of economic engines exist in ck?

In-Game Currency Name

HMC did have a really good point before that "gold" is a good name for an in-game currency as people have an expectation of gold holding that function based on playing other MMORPG style games.

In this case, I recommend the current in-game currency (M) becoming CKG (Crypto Kingdom Gold) in CK:R. For all earlier discussions, replace CKM with CKG for these purposes as well.

Naturally, this opens the issue as we already have an in-game amount of gold also called CKG in the amount of roughly 1,000,000 units. Now this could be replaced with another element or name. One option would to be just to give the current CKG a qualifier. Maybe CKAG or CKRG for CK Artisanal Gold or Refined Gold. Of course name is still a placeholder. Would recommend making the same name change (whatever is chosen) with silver (CKS) in game.

HIGH ;P May start randomly throwing out some concepts/ideas for discussion...

Game Time Period Naming

In the Crypto Kingdom Relaunch (CK:R to save typing, but don't worry, that isn't the name), I would recommend restarting the game at a base time of zero.

Why? A couple reasons. One is that we need to disconnect from specific real world associations and expectations. I believe we have long been paused at 1691, but we have no where near the development/tech/etc. to mirror that real time period. Related, I would also recommend removing CryptoTown's placement on any world map. We should be kingdom in a large, shadowy unknown with the only tooltip when hovering over the dark fog is "here be dragons"

Say we use 0 CKT or "Crypto Kingdom Time", or we can use 0 CKE for "Crypto Kingdom Era". We will keep all prior items and they will be based on BCKT/BCKE.

Looking at the Agora Marketplace, the oldest item is WRL-1 "Hundreds of papyri" from 1000. The age on this would be 1691 - 1000, or 691 BCKT/BCKE. Ignoring WOS-F "Servant Grey Clothes" which somehow has a 1699 date, the newest item is the "Phoenix Medal" from 1690. The age on this would be 1691 - 1690, or 1 BCKT/BCKE.

The added value of this is we automatically create an "antiques" market for these old items, many of which do not have a point and may never have a point. As they are from an era that will never come again (BCKT/BCKE), they are precious rarities.

And while the progression of game time compared to real world time is still to be discussed, if, say, we as a community end up with a cyberpunk world of purple hues out of the pages of "Ready Player One" in 350 CKT, it won't seem as odd or weird

Agreed, and that is the plan at the moment. Restart the basic economic engine and fix bugs. Introduce the ability for the community to drive and vote on changes moving forward.

At the same time, during this build out we want to look for places where modular design and moddabilty can happen. Say if a non-technical user wants to create a new item and the related cottage economy of that item. We want them to be able to do that.

Same thing with some quality of life improvements. Say something easier to work with than CLI for trading and gameplay, for example.

Finally, on the topic of "cards" and other blockchain assets, like EncryptedCharms and PepeCash, one area is to have the tech in place where people can "hook" in blockchain assets (looking at that same "modular" idea from above) and create items in the game that interact with them. So if AP/KC or whoever wants to put "Avarice's Wand" and "Melody's Orb" in the game, they can do that and then have it interact with the related blockchain assets.

Keep the discussions/comments coming!

What the Game needs most right now is to have the basic economic engine restarted, and that means fixing things like building payouts, tax, health challenge etc, so people can actually play CK. If that happened the 'social network' of CK would revive, and then we'd all be in a better position to discuss larger changes.

If PJ can't restart the economic engine, but someone else can, then just do that for now, and I don't think anyone will complain as we'll be able to play CK again, and then communication channels that are basically dead now will revivie.

Leave the bigger decisions for down the road IMO, concentrate on making what we have 'playable' again.

I believe all his assets should be used to repay his debt, from which, we'll gather voluntary donations, which will probably be sufficient as if it was  forceably taken from his debtors.

I couldn't go further back in the changelog, but I know there was a confirmed near 5k XMR withdrawal around that time, so $100k in that case minimum. Honestly, I have a remembrance that it was over 10k XMR, maybe even 20k that Risto gave him!


As a debtholder myself, I obviously would like to be repaid even a portion of what I am owed. My issue with using Risto's assets are, firstly, how are they defined? Do Risto's assets include things like NewCorp, Town Housing Corp., and Hypothecary Bank as well as user assets like "Dark" and "Soul"?

And secondly, where do funds to actually and grow out the game come from? Several didn't seem to like the dilution route I suggested for creation of more M/CKM for a token exchange campaign (TEC). This would impact debt and non-debt holders equally and Smooth was at least warm to the idea. If we don't have any dilution, don't hold a TEC, and use all of Risto's assets to pay off, how will we grow?

A 1/3 of profit by the game going to "debt" payments and 1/3 for CKO holders and 1/3 saved for game growth tries to balance the different factors we need to keep in mind. %'s can change and we can of course think about if we even want "CKO" (ownership) shares that function like old "CK" shares to a degree. Smooth was earlier saying that there needs to be a separation of currency and ownership, but I am not sure to what levels this needs to be done. 


Well, we can always finally implement the long-promised ShapeShift.io integration.

I think with this aspect as well, we can try to tap into the urge that people have with games such as agar.io or lordz.io. Which is seeing growth, a rising score rank, and competing with other factions.



Risto has not been the king for a long time. That was given to HMC at one point. I believe there was also and "in-game" event turned over all of Risto's assets to the game and they are currently not being used at all.


All good ideas. I also like how "voting power" can be more than just a single asset type. Perhaps this can be the way to calculate CKO distribution or can be used in place of CKO.


This all sounds great, and many of us got involved in CK for this sort of system!

The least unfair (best we'll all be able to agree to) way to approach this it seems to me would be to essentially integrate the 'death' of the king into the game itself, meaning at face value his assets would belong to the game itself, and would be 'off-limits'. For them to be used to pay off debts (which is fair in my opinion) the process would be to submit a git issue, which would be turned over to a community vote which could be conducted in-game. It would be impossible to have the system be 100% fair, but something along the lines of an account owning between 1 and infinite units of real estate has a vote weighted with a minimum weight of 5, with an additional weight of X added for every (whatever the community decides) units of real estate .., if you have no real estate but your in game assets have X property your vote has a weight of 2' or whatever is the fairest approach that pisses off the least number of people. I'm sure someone in the community knows game theory better than myself. What I'm considering is putting up the site at first, having a dev available for implementing stuff like this (rapidly and responsively) until the project would move along without the training wheels. After nailing down fair voting everything would be up for vote, including who gets dev access to git, where to host server, whether to allow people to create objects at will or assign a cost so that it doesn't get spammed, moving everything to exist within a smart contract block-chain based setup, whatever... We'd have a dev from the start who could implement changes like that overnight, happily, and code would be of good quality. Well, smart contract set-up wouldn't happen overnight. But if this flops it flops, I'm not horrified by that idea. I'd like to let this linger for a bit so as to be able to gauge opposition and see if and to and to what degree there is strong disagreement, which will indicate whether I should try to get things moving or leave it be.

Man, dude lives in Serbia, the average wage there is 400$, that's 42 years of average Serbian wages
PJ can live his entire life with that kind of money
Considering he sold right away, if he kept some, he can provide for his fucking grandchildren.


So, Ristos assets should be used to repay his debts.


A good idea would be to allow people to create a civilization for their currency for a certain price, good funding  
Ofc, we would add major currencies ourselves.
That would add a lot to the name Crypto Kingdom.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Aeon/comments/7mcaat/some_motived_souls_are_rallying_an_effort_to/

"Some motived souls are rallying an effort to relaunch CryptoKingdom in Aeon. Possible Encrypted Charms integration is flirted with."

KatieCharm/AP has shared the potential CK/AEON initiative on Reddit at the link above.

I would recommend anyone interested in commenting and eliciting feedback to interact with that thread as well.

I have a dev interested in moving the project forward. We played with a million different ideas of how to approach moving forward, and the least complicated solution able to produce results essentially seems to be to 'just do it'. The code is not complicated, setting up the site to use current code and unmodified SQL database (non-reboot) is simple enough I could do it, however he has the time to actually continue to develop the project. He's talented and happy to work for donations. Concerning debts/in-game tokens, we figured best and easiest solution would be to allow private parties to cover the territory of currency conversions. Let people exchange whatever currency they would like for the in game currency. We were thinking to just move forward with it, and respond to community feedback. If a respected member of the community like saddam or generalizethis is requested to have git access and the community thinks that is best, then that happens. If community wants to integrate to on an chain token, add that to the todo list. He doesn't want anyone to have to trust him, isn't particularly comfortable with that really and we shouldn't be either. I know this person IRL and have worked with them on many projects. They are very capable of handling frontends to SQL databases with their eyes closed, and further capable of acheiving the decentralized game some of us seem to be envisioning. I don't want to be stepping on anyone's toes so it would be helpful if anyone 'in the know' could speak specifically as to what, if anything, is going on as far as PJ/Speed/Anyone's development efforts.  I dont understand how so little gets accomplished.... its a freaking frontend to an SQL database..  For me personally I enjoy the game a lot, but if I hadn't built my home in old town back in the day, I'm a bit busier at this point in my life and may not be terribly interested in a reboot from scratch. But, his interest in the project is not contingent on that or my opinion, and though we respect eachothers opinion I would not be "in charge". The idea is to have nobody be in charge. But somebody has to make a move. So if there is any reason to NOT fork the database, throw up a site, have him start interacting with the community to see what they want, please let me know. If everyone thinks it s dog-shit and wants to stay away, no harm done. The idea is that if the community wants, he'll happily use his own creativity if necessary, but main focus is to get the project moving, implement what the community wants, be funded by donations, move towards trustless and modular set-up... and not piss off anyone in the process. He doesn't want to have things devolve into a "I'll pay you to add this!" situation, as that would give donators control in relation to their wealth, but to have the generosity of the community fund his efforts to implement what the community wants.

We'd talked and have been considering this for about a week. I respect AmericanPegasus , this was all thought before they had expressed interest. As far as I can tell, their on chain asset of trading cards will exist with or without CK, and it could absolutely be traded within Agora, just as ALMOST anything else could. I think marketplace activity should be restricated to digital assets so as to avoid potential confusion of being mistaken for certain... other.... marktplaces associated with privacy centric cryptos. The idea is to keep things simple as possible, no crazy algos or massive changes at fork... and that he would be available to work for the community to move the project in whatever direction the community wants it to go.