Enough to consider a casino scam? - page 20.

klidex

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Quote from: Shamm on April 15, 2023, 11:32:32 AM

Quote from: mak013 on April 15, 2023, 11:27:49 AM

Quote from: paxmao on April 13, 2023, 04:00:43 PM

Quote from: mak013 on April 13, 2023, 06:26:17 AM

About KYC. You need to read ToS. Usually the casino include KYC before withdraw in their ToS but until your withdrawals are small enough they can allow such withdrawals. If you withdraw such sum and there is KYC in ToS - you have to do it. You can try several times in different ways i think.
About bonuses. You need some information when you made this deposit and when the bonus program was stopped. And it can be some more restrictions for getting bonus, read attentively.

A KYC before withdrawing cannot really be considered in my view as a problem or an abusive condition, since it is pretty much a standard legal requirement. Now, to be fair, the site is playing the user in the sense that it is easy to send funds and then difficult to take back. Legally, the site is holding funds of unknown origin, so my guess is that they are at that moment doing something illegal.

I think that it would be honest to KYC before the deposit. Today it looks like that casino easily takes the gamblers money and when they have to give them back - gambler gets troubles. It is unfair for my opinion. Yes, gambler have to read ToS but if he has to KYC before deposit - he can make his decision about KYC and when he is asked KYC before withdrawal - he has no choice.

Some of scam casino trick is that they don't ask KYC once a gambler going to deposit but in the end of the day then a gambler want to withdraw his/her winning money they the casino is immediately ask for KYC and even though you already complete they will said that your account is suspicios. So for now as a gambler we need to double are security let's gamble on the nos reputable and trusted casino. So that we found fall into a trap.

Some of the cases that have occurred have made valuable experiences for myself, like now I only gamble at reputable casinos on this forum, although sometimes they ask me to do KYC before depositing, I will do it so that when I withdraw funds, I am not asked for KYC again and the casino will not be able to say as you say.
Gambling at a trusted casino is a way to avoid these fraudulent tricks.

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Quote from: mak013 on April 15, 2023, 11:27:49 AM

Quote from: paxmao on April 13, 2023, 04:00:43 PM

Quote from: mak013 on April 13, 2023, 06:26:17 AM

About KYC. You need to read ToS. Usually the casino include KYC before withdraw in their ToS but until your withdrawals are small enough they can allow such withdrawals. If you withdraw such sum and there is KYC in ToS - you have to do it. You can try several times in different ways i think.
About bonuses. You need some information when you made this deposit and when the bonus program was stopped. And it can be some more restrictions for getting bonus, read attentively.

A KYC before withdrawing cannot really be considered in my view as a problem or an abusive condition, since it is pretty much a standard legal requirement. Now, to be fair, the site is playing the user in the sense that it is easy to send funds and then difficult to take back. Legally, the site is holding funds of unknown origin, so my guess is that they are at that moment doing something illegal.

I think that it would be honest to KYC before the deposit. Today it looks like that casino easily takes the gambler's money and when they have to give them back - the gambler gets in trouble. It is unfair in my opinion. Yes, gamblers have to read ToS but if he has to KYC before deposit - he can make their decision about KYC and when he is asked to KYC before withdrawal - he has no choice.

The issue of KYC has become a big issue in cryptocurrencies gambling sites, this is because most of those who use online casino most especially cryptocurrencies casinos are privacy-oriented and at that, they're always looking for platforms that give them an over-centralization, but due to regulations e even online casino have become centralized where by they demand for KYC is embedded in their terms of service.
But for online casinos to gain players sometimes they avoid the demand for KYC in a certain amount but and unless the players display a suspicious act they may be asked for KYC at whatever time, but for casinos who say their 100% off KYC don't have any business to ask players to get verified that is not done any were and that act is a scam since it is not in your T%C and at that, the casino does not have any right to ask for it.

Shamm

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Quote from: mak013 on April 15, 2023, 11:27:49 AM

Quote from: paxmao on April 13, 2023, 04:00:43 PM

Quote from: mak013 on April 13, 2023, 06:26:17 AM

About KYC. You need to read ToS. Usually the casino include KYC before withdraw in their ToS but until your withdrawals are small enough they can allow such withdrawals. If you withdraw such sum and there is KYC in ToS - you have to do it. You can try several times in different ways i think.
About bonuses. You need some information when you made this deposit and when the bonus program was stopped. And it can be some more restrictions for getting bonus, read attentively.

A KYC before withdrawing cannot really be considered in my view as a problem or an abusive condition, since it is pretty much a standard legal requirement. Now, to be fair, the site is playing the user in the sense that it is easy to send funds and then difficult to take back. Legally, the site is holding funds of unknown origin, so my guess is that they are at that moment doing something illegal.

I think that it would be honest to KYC before the deposit. Today it looks like that casino easily takes the gamblers money and when they have to give them back - gambler gets troubles. It is unfair for my opinion. Yes, gambler have to read ToS but if he has to KYC before deposit - he can make his decision about KYC and when he is asked KYC before withdrawal - he has no choice.

Some of scam casino trick is that they don't ask KYC once a gambler going to deposit but in the end of the day then a gambler want to withdraw his/her winning money they the casino is immediately ask for KYC and even though you already complete they will said that your account is suspicios. So for now as a gambler we need to double are security let's gamble on the nos reputable and trusted casino. So that we found fall into a trap.

mak013

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Quote from: paxmao on April 13, 2023, 04:00:43 PM

Quote from: mak013 on April 13, 2023, 06:26:17 AM

About KYC. You need to read ToS. Usually the casino include KYC before withdraw in their ToS but until your withdrawals are small enough they can allow such withdrawals. If you withdraw such sum and there is KYC in ToS - you have to do it. You can try several times in different ways i think.
About bonuses. You need some information when you made this deposit and when the bonus program was stopped. And it can be some more restrictions for getting bonus, read attentively.

A KYC before withdrawing cannot really be considered in my view as a problem or an abusive condition, since it is pretty much a standard legal requirement. Now, to be fair, the site is playing the user in the sense that it is easy to send funds and then difficult to take back. Legally, the site is holding funds of unknown origin, so my guess is that they are at that moment doing something illegal.

I think that it would be honest to KYC before the deposit. Today it looks like that casino easily takes the gamblers money and when they have to give them back - gambler gets troubles. It is unfair for my opinion. Yes, gambler have to read ToS but if he has to KYC before deposit - he can make his decision about KYC and when he is asked KYC before withdrawal - he has no choice.

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Quote from: BobK71 on April 15, 2023, 02:51:27 AM

Quote from: Mr. Magkaisa on April 15, 2023, 02:10:04 AM

Quote from: noorman0 on April 14, 2023, 10:40:04 AM

$8k is probably enough value to trigger additional verification requests for casinos in general. With a case like the OP described, I can consider them a scam or a bad system because it's not a good way to cancel winnings by making verification difficult. Usually the casino has a technical reason if the winnings have the right to cancel them.

- The problem based on op's story is that the support did not even mention the reason why it is necessary to submit a kyc, unless the gambling platform is actually a regulated casino. After that, it's usually no wonder that KYC is looking for it.

However, if it has already submitted kyc and there was no problem, then the gambling platform still does not want to allow the 8000$ to be released. Unless the platform really doesn't want to allow their client to withdraw it and that's the sad thing to think about this matter.

When support can't provide a solution, So they won't allow withdrawals without any reason. If the casino is regulated then the gambler will be able to withdraw his money. It is only mentioned here to use KYC as an excuse. They are bound to pay if KYC is accepted. But they will never approve KYC. The main problem is that they will never let the gambler withdraw $8000. As a result, there is no doubt that they belong to a scam project.

It's possible that the casino doesn't have that much money to pay the winner, so even if the winner does KYC, the casino keeps the money. The casino should not burden the winner, especially since they have done KYC and have been proven to have received verification from the casino because there is no reason for the casino to withhold the winnings. But if it's a scam casino, they won't want to pay the money to the winner even if the winner doesn't mind doing KYC.

piebeyb

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Quote from: tusandii on April 15, 2023, 02:46:26 AM

Quote from: Mr. Magkaisa on April 15, 2023, 02:10:04 AM

- The problem based on op's story is that the support did not even mention the reason why it is necessary to submit a kyc, unless the gambling platform is actually a regulated casino. After that, it's usually no wonder that KYC is looking for it.

Each casino has reasons for requesting a KYC such as because of a license that is used to enforce KYC or to guard against prohibited actions such as money laundering because money laundering that is carried out on a gambling platform can have an adverse impact on the casino and affect smooth operation of a casino.
We must respect every decision made by the casino so that there are no problems when we use the casino.
But here the OP does seem to be stating that support doesn't provide clear reasons for applying for KYC and this is what causes gamblers to have a sense of suspicion towards casinos.
Everything should have been explained at the beginning so that there were no confusion and questions from customers.

This is the reason why I don't want to jump to conclusions about who is committing fraud whether it's the gambler or the casino owner. The OP only asked a few questions that might be the case with his close friends, but unfortunately the OP didn't explain the details of why casinos ask for KYC all of a sudden when gamblers win big, it's not an act of fraud because of carrying out procedures that casinos usually don't want gamblers to bring home a lot of money from the casino so they make sure the gambler is not cheating and if the money can be withdrawn there is no problem with the casino, they are not considered a fraud as long as they process the withdrawal after the gambler completes KYC.

The OP also asked about the promised bonus but didn't get it when making the first deposit, now that also can't be said that the casino is committing fraud, because it could be that the bonus promotion period is no longer valid so maybe the OP didn't see the bonus expiration, the OP should also add a screenshot so that there is no confusion. it's just a matter of communication anyway

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Quote from: tusandii on April 15, 2023, 02:46:26 AM

Each casino has reasons for requesting a KYC such as because of a license that is used to enforce KYC or to guard against prohibited actions such as money laundering because money laundering that is carried out on a gambling platform can have an adverse impact on the casino and affect smooth operation of a casino.

As mentioned above, many casinos operate unlicensed and don't comply with the laws of the countries they offer their services. In the OP's scenario, if the casino was compliant, they would almost certainly do KYC checks upon registration, not only upon withdrawal of a larger amount. You are not obliged to provide any personal information to any 3rd party, and that situation forced you to do so against your will, holding your money as a hostage.

Quote from: tusandii on April 15, 2023, 02:46:26 AM

We must respect every decision made by the casino so that there are no problems when we use the casino.

Absolutely not. Casinos are not, and should not be viewed, as some sort of authority. They're just one side of the deal, the player being the other.
Stupid or fraudulent decisions should be called out and fought against, not accepted.

BobK71

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Quote from: Mr. Magkaisa on April 15, 2023, 02:10:04 AM

Quote from: noorman0 on April 14, 2023, 10:40:04 AM

$8k is probably enough value to trigger additional verification requests for casinos in general. With a case like the OP described, I can consider them a scam or a bad system because it's not a good way to cancel winnings by making verification difficult. Usually the casino has a technical reason if the winnings have the right to cancel them.

- The problem based on op's story is that the support did not even mention the reason why it is necessary to submit a kyc, unless the gambling platform is actually a regulated casino. After that, it's usually no wonder that KYC is looking for it.

However, if it has already submitted kyc and there was no problem, then the gambling platform still does not want to allow the 8000$ to be released. Unless the platform really doesn't want to allow their client to withdraw it and that's the sad thing to think about this matter.

When support can't provide a solution, So they won't allow withdrawals without any reason. If the casino is regulated then the gambler will be able to withdraw his money. It is only mentioned here to use KYC as an excuse. They are bound to pay if KYC is accepted. But they will never approve KYC. The main problem is that they will never let the gambler withdraw $8000. As a result, there is no doubt that they belong to a scam project.

tusandii

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Quote from: Mr. Magkaisa on April 15, 2023, 02:10:04 AM

- The problem based on op's story is that the support did not even mention the reason why it is necessary to submit a kyc, unless the gambling platform is actually a regulated casino. After that, it's usually no wonder that KYC is looking for it.

Each casino has reasons for requesting a KYC such as because of a license that is used to enforce KYC or to guard against prohibited actions such as money laundering because money laundering that is carried out on a gambling platform can have an adverse impact on the casino and affect smooth operation of a casino.
We must respect every decision made by the casino so that there are no problems when we use the casino.
But here the OP does seem to be stating that support doesn't provide clear reasons for applying for KYC and this is what causes gamblers to have a sense of suspicion towards casinos.
Everything should have been explained at the beginning so that there were no confusion and questions from customers.

pawel7777

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Quote from: danadc on April 14, 2023, 11:02:45 AM

Privacy and anonymity no longer exist, all casinos, exchanges always ask for identifications that make us expose, an exchange before did not do it, but now all government entities demand it and casinos like exchanges do nothing to the In this regard, they only surrender to their requests, so I also understand that they should not go against certain rules so that they can do their job, but they should show the disagreement and make it evident, because I have not seen an advertisement for a casino that It has manifested to be in disagreement with the kyc processes.

True, but this topic is not about criticising KYC requirements but whether or not casinos can use alleged failed KYC verifications to deny withdrawals.
Strangely enough, if casinos are implementing verification requirements because they are licensed and want to stay compliant - then it's actually a good sign from the safety of your funds perspective. Sadly, there are unlicensed sites that operate in exotic jurisdictions and are not really bound to perform KYC checks and would only use such to blatantly scam people out of their money in a way that OP described.

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Quote from: noorman0 on April 14, 2023, 10:40:04 AM

$8k is probably enough value to trigger additional verification requests for casinos in general. With a case like the OP described, I can consider them a scam or a bad system because it's not a good way to cancel winnings by making verification difficult. Usually the casino has a technical reason if the winnings have the right to cancel them.

- The problem based on op's story is that the support did not even mention the reason why it is necessary to submit a kyc, unless the gambling platform is actually a regulated casino. After that, it's usually no wonder that KYC is looking for it.

However, if it has already submitted kyc and there was no problem, then the gambling platform still does not want to allow the 8000$ to be released. Unless the platform really doesn't want to allow their client to withdraw it and that's the sad thing to think about this matter.

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Quote from: KiaKia on April 07, 2023, 09:38:54 AM

What will you do if you don't know that a online casino will ask you for KYC after winning over 8,000$ on the platform? And you now manage to process with the verification and they failed to pass you? Can you consider such a casino a scam?

Yes I will consider them a very big scam especially after doing the verification with the right and very correct documents and still get denied my winnings.
Most times what these casinos might end up doing is to block your account with some silly accusations just as not to pay you and that is criminality in a broad day light.

I also think that you might be given the bonus but the difficulty in claiming thises bonuses is a very big scam to me because I see no reason while I would get a bonus and still be required to wager over 10 times the bonus amount to be able to make withdrawals and you can agree with me that there an very slim chances of making any profit after all those wagering and that's where the scam comes in.

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Quote from: Odusko on April 14, 2023, 02:39:58 PM

But also now the case with the ops is that he passed the KYC process but the casino refused his withdrawal.

In the situation you mentioned, OP submitted documents for KYC purposes, but the casino team did not approve the application. This gives two different possible answers, especially because the amount of money won is quite significant.

The first possibility is that the documents submitted were invalid or unclear. This is actually normal because the casino needs to ensure that the received documents meet their KYC requirements. In this case, OP can check your documents again and ensure that everything is complete and in accordance with the requirements given by the casino.

The second possibility is that the casino is a scammer. This could happen due to the casino's greed in wanting to control the money won by players on their site. It is important to report and publicize a casino company like this to prevent further victims.

However, before making any conclusions, it is very important to find out more information and make sure that we understand the situation well. OP can try to contact the casino and ask for further explanation about the reason for the rejection of your KYC application.

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Quote from: Odusko on April 14, 2023, 02:39:58 PM

That is the terms of many casinos who doesn't require KYC at the point of registration, they have it mentioned in their terms and conditions that any withdrawal of above $5k may require the user to pass through kyc to enable the withdrawal.
But also now the case with the ops is that he passed the KYC process but the casino refused his withdrawal.

That's sign of a scam casino. There shall not be a problem if OP already fully verified but since he was not able withdrawing their money to their accounts and then that scam site should be marked. This is one of trick that used by casino to fool its users.
Casino was not even putting KYC requirement during the registration to make sure if people will be joining in the platform easily. The more money that will be coming to the casino but the strict rules will be used after money already deposited to the casino.
To be honest if this problem will never ever be solved. There will always be untrusted casino who acts looked like that if it's a trusted casino.

People shall be careful and read TOS first. Most people forgot to read it and this is a trick that used by scam casino to fool the users.

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Quote from: Odusko on April 14, 2023, 02:39:58 PM

Quote from: noorman0 on April 14, 2023, 10:40:04 AM

$8k is probably enough value to trigger additional verification requests for casinos in general. With a case like the OP described, I can consider them a scam or a bad system because it's not a good way to cancel winnings by making verification difficult. Usually, the casino has a technical reason if the winnings have the right to cancel them.

That is the terms of many casinos who doesn't require KYC at the point of registration, they have it mentioned in their terms and conditions that any withdrawal of above $5k may require the user to pass through kyc to enable the withdrawal.
But also now the case with the ops is that he passed the KYC process but the casino refused his withdrawal.

Scam casinos do know how to get there victim by initially introducing a simple and non KYC casino for gamers to take a long and make there betting there. The problem always come when they want to make withdrawals from the casino, serious error for them to update there KYC verification with a compulsory motive. Even though they do the KYC, it will not be confirmed and the innocent user and he will keep trying consistently to make sure that everything is completely with frustration.

Odusko

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Quote from: noorman0 on April 14, 2023, 10:40:04 AM

$8k is probably enough value to trigger additional verification requests for casinos in general. With a case like the OP described, I can consider them a scam or a bad system because it's not a good way to cancel winnings by making verification difficult. Usually, the casino has a technical reason if the winnings have the right to cancel them.

That is the terms of many casinos who doesn't require KYC at the point of registration, they have it mentioned in their terms and conditions that any withdrawal of above $5k may require the user to pass through kyc to enable the withdrawal.
But also now the case with the ops is that he passed the KYC process but the casino refused his withdrawal.

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Quote from: mak013 on April 13, 2023, 06:26:17 AM

About KYC. You need to read ToS. Usually the casino include KYC before withdraw in their ToS but until your withdrawals are small enough they can allow such withdrawals. If you withdraw such sum and there is KYC in ToS - you have to do it. You can try several times in different ways i think.
About bonuses. You need some information when you made this deposit and when the bonus program was stopped. And it can be some more restrictions for getting bonus, read attentively.

OP has already said that he was asked for KYC when he requested the withdrawal but then they failed his KYC when he submitted the documents and all the details. That mostly happens when the documents or the details are not clear or maybe doesn't match with each other, and it can be resolved if the users discusses the issue with the support team.

The bonus probably had some other requirement that the user couldn't or didn't fulfill successfully and that is the reason why he didn't get it, or it can also be an issue or a bug within the system which is also solvable pretty easily by the support.

klidex

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Quote from: xSkylarx on April 14, 2023, 10:59:25 AM

Quote from: pawel7777 on April 14, 2023, 09:26:33 AM

Quote from: Porfirii on April 14, 2023, 06:34:28 AM

The first rule to follow would be to only gamble in really big and well known casinos, with a huge user base and little complaints from them about withdrawing issues.

I would replace the "big and well known" with "trusted with good track record". There are some smaller sites out there with honest owners, who have been around for a while and have a clean record. And on the contrary, we've seen many cases when big brands were accused of shady practices. And the bigger you get, the less you can care about single, individual customers.

You have a point because it doesn't mean that if the casino is huge and well-known, it is already trusted, as there are casinos that are still scamming people, which we didn't notice, and also there are small time casinos that are not well known but are more trusted based on the comments of the gamblers. We should always select the trusted one; it does not matter how big or small the casino is or how well known it is, as long as it is trusted, we are safe.

There is no guarantee that big casinos or small casinos will not cheat, because it all depends on reputation and trust.
But it's just that small casinos or new casinos are more often scammed, I'm not saying all new casinos or small casinos but there are some that do build casinos with the aim of cheating and we certainly know the casinos I mean.
There are also big casinos that have good trust and reputation but end up being scams for various reasons.

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Quote from: Peanutswar on April 14, 2023, 10:21:54 AM

Quote from: paxmao on April 13, 2023, 04:00:43 PM

Quote from: mak013 on April 13, 2023, 06:26:17 AM

Quote from: KiaKia on April 07, 2023, 09:38:54 AM

Hi friends, I have some questions for you guys about online casinos

What will you do if you don't know that a online casino will ask you for KYC after winning over 8,000$ on the platform? And you now manage to process with the verification and they failed to pass you? Can you consider such a casino a scam?

Also, imagine you get attracted to an online casino because of the bonuses they offer and you open an account and make your first deposit then you didn't receive the promised bonus, is this an act of scam or not?

I am trying to solve such an issue for someone very close to me and that the complaint he gave, I have no answer than maybe the bonus was canceled already before he made the deposit or there was a minimum deposit requirement.

Any other reasons?

About KYC. You need to read ToS. Usually the casino include KYC before withdraw in their ToS but until your withdrawals are small enough they can allow such withdrawals. If you withdraw such sum and there is KYC in ToS - you have to do it. You can try several times in different ways i think.
About bonuses. You need some information when you made this deposit and when the bonus program was stopped. And it can be some more restrictions for getting bonus, read attentively.

A KYC before withdrawing cannot really be considered in my view as a problem or an abusive condition, since it is pretty much a standard legal requirement. Now, to be fair, the site is playing the user in the sense that it is easy to send funds and then difficult to take back. Legally, the site is holding funds of unknown origin, so my guess is that they are at that moment doing something illegal.

Nowadays people want to keep themselves as secure as much possible even there's a data privacy act regarding the information will use by gambling still you cannot deny there's a chance those data can be use in other things unless you really trust that particular casino, in my opinion, the player can make a level 1 security which is the requirements for the account of having an email and optional for the phone number, but regarding with the level 2 KYC with the use of the ID and other documentation just to make a withdrawal without a problem with your record seems like a red flag, some of the casinos tag their users once they won a large amount upon playing so still depends on the player.

Privacy and anonymity no longer exist, all casinos, exchanges always ask for identifications that make us expose, an exchange before did not do it, but now all government entities demand it and casinos like exchanges do nothing to the In this regard, they only surrender to their requests, so I also understand that they should not go against certain rules so that they can do their job, but they should show the disagreement and make it evident, because I have not seen an advertisement for a casino that It has manifested to be in disagreement with the kyc processes.

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Quote from: pawel7777 on April 14, 2023, 09:26:33 AM

Quote from: Porfirii on April 14, 2023, 06:34:28 AM

The first rule to follow would be to only gamble in really big and well known casinos, with a huge user base and little complaints from them about withdrawing issues.

I would replace the "big and well known" with "trusted with good track record". There are some smaller sites out there with honest owners, who have been around for a while and have a clean record. And on the contrary, we've seen many cases when big brands were accused of shady practices. And the bigger you get, the less you can care about single, individual customers.

You have a point because it doesn't mean that if the casino is huge and well-known, it is already trusted, as there are casinos that are still scamming people, which we didn't notice, and also there are small time casinos that are not well known but are more trusted based on the comments of the gamblers. We should always select the trusted one; it does not matter how big or small the casino is or how well known it is, as long as it is trusted, we are safe.

Topic: Enough to consider a casino scam? - page 20. (Read 3471 times)