Topic: Evolution is a hoax - page 5. (Read 108173 times)

The reason we don't know is that we live by faith and belief. In other words, we are religious beings, and live religious lives.

Some of us trust God, so we know by faith. No big crunch. No big bang. Destruction of this universe soon. But loss of this universe to all of us when we die.

You make a point. But your point doesn't have anything to do with the post you quoted. Do you always simply jump into things with other things?

The point of my post that you quoted was, if our universe never had a beginning, but rather always existed, entropy would have diffused complexity into simplicity long ago. If the universe was such a different kind of thing that this didn't happen for some reason, it is way beyond our knowing.

Actually, a form of entropy is probably the thing that is making us devolve rather than evolve right now.

Evolution doesn't violate entropy. Earth is not an isolated system, we get an energy input from the Sun, and radiate energy back to space.
The second law of thermodynamics doesn't mean that the entropy of every part of a system increases. If it did then water would never freeze into ice, because that involves a decrease in entropy. What it actually means is that the total entropy of the whole system has to increase. Any decrease like water in a freezer turning into ice is matched by an increase elsewhere, in this case the heat released into your kitchen by the freezer.

But your C&E focus is way too shallow. Consider the molecules in the bodies of both animals. Consider the molecules in the bodies of their parents. Think like this all the way back to... all the way back to... all the way back to where?

This is where entropy comes in (another flaw in BB Theory thinking). There must have been a Beginning. If things had always existed as they do, entropy would have broken down the complexity long ago, so there wouldn't be life, or much of anything else that is complex.

So we see a recent Beginning, and the only other thing that is shouted all around, and expressed by the large majority of people as far back as we can track them, is God. Why? Things like evolution and BB are unknowns.

Evolution is a hoax.

But how about the monekys? they were inferior to humans, still some monkeys exist and some evolved? Why some chose to evolve? I guess there will be slow and fast gazelles in the future aswell like monekys and humans at the same time... Something seems irrational here

Yes, agreed about C&E. Slow gazelles get caught by predators and eaten. Fast gazelles escape. Fast gazelles are the ones that breed. The next generation gets marginally faster. Cause and effect. Natural selection.
We are not disagreed on whether natural selection is cause and effect.
We are just disagreed on whether cause and effect is generated by God.

Natural selection doesn't even make sense. Stuff doesn't select things unless it has the God-like ability to select. It's cause and effect that makes the happenings that people call natural selection. The mutations are C&E derived, as well. C&E is the root cause of everything except C&E, itself.

We are close on a lot of things though. You believe in natural selection, you believe in mutations - some beneficial to survival and some detrimental. All that we disagree about is the root cause, whether it's God or raw physics.

Actually it will never happen because of my understanding of the difference between science and science-religion... first. However, if my mind deteriorates because of dementia or Alzheimer's or something, then it will never happen because God will maintain me in the truth of himself.

Evolution is a hoax religion.

Without scientism-religion, you would not believe in evolution but wuld know that God created everything in existence.

BADecker I feel we are so close to convincing you, but it will never happen because of your belief in God.
If there was no religion, do you think you might be convinced by evolution?

I took them off, and I found that you STILL don't have any proof for evolution. At least, you aren't even talking in that direction... probably because you wouldn't understand proof if it jumped up and bit you in the eye.

Evolution is a hoax.

Take any one of your mutations and go deeper into it. The molecules all moved in every part of the mutation according to the way they were "bumped." What were they bumped by? Other molecules, atoms, heat energy, etc.

When they were bumped, why was it that they moved exactly as they did, and not in some other way? Because the way they were bumped, caused them to move, according to the laws of physics, which say that they must move this way, if they are bumped that way.

And the molecules, atoms, heat energy, etc., that bumped them, acted the ways that they did because other molecules, atoms, heat energy, etc., acted on them just exactly the way physics dictated they should act when bumped by whatever bumped them... back to the beginning. We don't have any example of anything acting outside the laws of physics. Everything had to act the way it did according to the laws of physics.

We call it random because we aren't even close to starting to track standard movements of individual molecules, atoms, heat energy waves/particles, etc., in nature. But none of it is really random. It all acts according to the laws of physics, right down to the tiniest subatomic particle.

Since simple random is simply our ignorance of details, evolution can be random in that way. But because everything acts according to the precise laws of physics, there is no pure random. If a time ever comes that we think we find something of pure randomness, it will only be because we haven't discovered the depths of its physics laws, yet.

Your car example doesn't fit. Why not? Because we clearly have cars. But we don't know that there is evolution. We don't know that what we are reverse engineering is evolution. But we clearly see that it is simple change, adaptation, and like-begets-like.

Sorry for the huge quote, but this is an important point of contention in this thread, and we still haven't got to the bottom of it.

BADecker - you accept simple change, adaptation and like-begets-like, yes? Your point is that 'random' mutations aren't really random because they have cause and effect, which you trhink suggests design. Is this right?

It's not just a mutation from 'A'->'B', though. 'A' mutates into 'C' through 'Z' as well. It's not that the mutation 'B' has been designed to succeed, it's that vast numbers of different mutations occur, the overwhelming are not beneficial and are (naturally) selected out of the gene pool. It's not that 'B' survives as a positive mutation because it has been designed that way, it's that of the 25 'B' through 'Z' variations, only one of them was beneficial to the animal's chances of survival. The 24 animals with the harmful 'C' through 'Z' mutations didn't reach adulthood to reproduce.

So your religion not only denies certain things, but it has a potty mouth, as well.

Fortunately, it isn't the simple publication of documents that makes up what is proof. The things published also have to be correct. Nobody is required to prove that ETE doesn't exist. All one has to show us that so-called proof is not proof, and destroys itself as proof. And that is exactly what I have been doing.

Proof for ETE would have to include tracking the DNA of millions of generations of millions of creatures over hundreds of thousands of years. We haven't tracked even one creature like this. In fact, it's beyond our ability to so track.

Fuck off BADecker, your reply is out of context motherfucker; I deny gravity, the BB, the heliocentric model and, the globe NOT CREATIONISM!!!

This is what I'm talking about when I accuse you of dishonestly manipulating perceptions.

Sounds like you simply have some kind of a grudge against me. Why are you so upset? Is it because I have essentially proven that ETE doesn't have a leg to stand on? And it wrecks your idea that you aren't religious, because you believe in something that doesn't really exist?

Look at my post above this one.

Creationism and God is NOT nonsensical. Consider:

The weight of one bacterium is 9.5 × 10^-13 g - https://hypertextbook.com/facts/2003/LouisSiu.shtml. That's so small of a weight that nobody can even come close to understanding it. But a 200 lb man weighs 90,718.47 g.

In other words, the size and of a microbe is so small, that there is no way a microbe could even begin to think with a mindset like that of a man. A microbe really can't think at all.

Now consider the vast size and weight of the universe compared with that of a man. The size of the universe is so much greater than that of a man, that there might be no limit to how much greater the universe is.

Why would anybody be so stupid as to rule out a God that is even greater than the universe, because He made it?

The microbe can't think regarding great and small, but the man can. Why can't the man even consider that there might be a Being that is as much greater than he is, as he is greater than a microbe?