FIFA and UEFA has suspended Russian Football teams. - page 7.

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Quote from: alegotardo on March 16, 2022, 07:49:00 PM

Quote from: Silberman on March 16, 2022, 02:35:12 PM

Quote from: Sithara007 on March 15, 2022, 10:12:02 PM

Anyone heard about the news on Chelsea owner (Roman Abramovich)? In this case, I am going to support the decision from UEFA and FIFA. They have removed the oligarch from the ownership and prohibited the sale of his share. I have also heard that the British government is considering to sell assets of oligarchs including Abramovich and use the proceedings for charity. In the long term, this will benefit the ordinary Russians as well. Corrupt oligarchs will be afraid to move their money out of Russia as a result of this.

I think we all understand what they are trying to do but at least in principle I cannot agree with that, after all I am part of this market and I believe on the principles behind bitcoin which allows you to be your own bank and doesn't allow for any third party to steal your money or your property with a few clicks as part of how the system is designed, so while I think it is fair to suspend some athletes or teams from international competitions this is just plain stealing.

Indeed,
We need to remember that many people who have nothing to do with this war are being harmed by the sanctions that are being imposed.

If even for those who are to blame for this war, we can say that they are being robbed... then what about those who lost their financial freedom without having any guilt in this war?

Bitcoin is a completely neutral monetary system in any situation, amazing how there are still people who don't see it and bet on it.

What a load of garbage. Every Russian is accountable for the mass murder that their army is committing in Ukraine as we speak. They were never threatened by this country, Putin is just choosing to be a bully and pick on a country because it's people will not bow down to him. Only a tiny fraction of Russian's are protesting against this, the silent majority sits in fear but they are accomplices and many of them agree with the brainwashing propaganda that pollutes their mind. There was never any need for a single Russian soldier to enter this country, so the amount of sympathy for the worldwide backlash and sanctions should be zero. The negotiations are a joke because Putin has no desire to end this tragedy.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on March 16, 2022, 11:35:04 PM

Quote from: Silberman on March 16, 2022, 02:35:12 PM

I think we all understand what they are trying to do but at least in principle I cannot agree with that, after all I am part of this market and I believe on the principles behind bitcoin which allows you to be your own bank and doesn't allow for any third party to steal your money or your property with a few clicks as part of how the system is designed, so while I think it is fair to suspend some athletes or teams from international competitions this is just plain stealing.

With these actions, they are indirectly saying that ordinary Russian people are responsible for the war and they should be punished.

Those decisions aren't really pertaining to such ideology that they are responsible' on the war. You cannot just continue accepting/giving entertainment to those countries that are in midst of war, you'll just end yourself in the middle on that war - from media and countries asking why as they also cut their ties with Russia (only those who doesn't really want to get involved). I think its just too bad to think that this is a matter of 'whos being held responsible'. It's just a normal thing that even at any war, normal citizens would always be stereotyped or pulled back by the war/issues.

Remember the time covid hits worldwide? Many on media had hatred on Chinese people and even all of the normal citizens are issued/criticized by the stereotype. it's a war that we cannot see. But also the normal people that suffered from the judgmental minds.

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Quote from: KTChampions on March 17, 2022, 04:56:47 PM

One does not cancel the other. Now all sanctions will be applied, both fair and unfair, effective and ineffective. This is a signal to Russia and the world that such actions as Russia arranged by starting a war with Ukraine are unacceptable in the modern world.

By the way, I read local sports news (Russian) and watch a huge stream of players who, using the permission of FIFA and UEFA to terminate contracts with Russian clubs unilaterally, leave Russia en masse. It seems that club football in Russia in just one season will roll back 20-30 years and subsequently return to a normal level will be incredibly difficult.

But Russia will recover - I am sure all the section are temporary and they will end once the war is over. Russia is a super power. They are unstoppable and they know how to keep allies united. I am amazed how the world has reacted for the first time against war. Have that had happened earlier when other counties were calling for help. This horrible situation would have avoided.

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Quote from: Polkeins on March 17, 2022, 02:18:54 PM

I am glad that not all people advocate the exclusion of the national football team and, as a result, the punishment of ordinary people. It's good that many people understand that games for ordinary people are banned. If there is a desire to ban something and somehow influence, then it is necessary not to exclude the national team, but not to allow money to be exported from Russia to banks and Europe and not to allow Russian oligarchs to buy villas and superyachts in Europe. These are much more effective sanctions.

One does not cancel the other. Now all sanctions will be applied, both fair and unfair, effective and ineffective. This is a signal to Russia and the world that such actions as Russia arranged by starting a war with Ukraine are unacceptable in the modern world.

By the way, I read local sports news (Russian) and watch a huge stream of players who, using the permission of FIFA and UEFA to terminate contracts with Russian clubs unilaterally, leave Russia en masse. It seems that club football in Russia in just one season will roll back 20-30 years and subsequently return to a normal level will be incredibly difficult.

Polkeins

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Quote from: Sithara007 on March 16, 2022, 11:35:04 PM

Quote from: Silberman on March 16, 2022, 02:35:12 PM

I think we all understand what they are trying to do but at least in principle I cannot agree with that, after all I am part of this market and I believe on the principles behind bitcoin which allows you to be your own bank and doesn't allow for any third party to steal your money or your property with a few clicks as part of how the system is designed, so while I think it is fair to suspend some athletes or teams from international competitions this is just plain stealing.

Goes against their own principles as well. The Western press is claiming that this is Putin's war and the ordinary Russian people remain opposed to it. If that is the case, then how can they justify the suspension of Russia from the FIFA world cup (and similar actions taken by other sports bodies)? With these actions, they are indirectly saying that ordinary Russian people are responsible for the war and they should be punished. Good news for Putin. He will just play it to his own advantage and garner even more support from inside Russia.

I am glad that not all people advocate the exclusion of the national football team and, as a result, the punishment of ordinary people. It's good that many people understand that games for ordinary people are banned. If there is a desire to ban something and somehow influence, then it is necessary not to exclude the national team, but not to allow money to be exported from Russia to banks and Europe and not to allow Russian oligarchs to buy villas and superyachts in Europe. These are much more effective sanctions.

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Quote from: alegotardo on March 16, 2022, 07:49:00 PM

Quote from: Silberman on March 16, 2022, 02:35:12 PM

Quote from: Sithara007 on March 15, 2022, 10:12:02 PM

snip

Maybe that's why so many people suffer because of the war. On the one side, people want to find security in continuing their lives, but on the other hand, they are afraid that their assets will be taken by their government.

The last time I read news in the local media about Roman Abramovich trying to escape to Israel at Tel Aviv Airport moments before flying to Turkey. Abramovich, who also holds Israeli and Portuguese citizenship, was among seven Russian billionaires added to Britain's sanctions list on Thursday to isolate President Vladimir Putin over Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

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Quote from: Silberman on March 16, 2022, 02:35:12 PM

I think we all understand what they are trying to do but at least in principle I cannot agree with that, after all I am part of this market and I believe on the principles behind bitcoin which allows you to be your own bank and doesn't allow for any third party to steal your money or your property with a few clicks as part of how the system is designed, so while I think it is fair to suspend some athletes or teams from international competitions this is just plain stealing.

Goes against their own principles as well. The Western press is claiming that this is Putin's war and the ordinary Russian people remain opposed to it. If that is the case, then how can they justify the suspension of Russia from the FIFA world cup (and similar actions taken by other sports bodies)? With these actions, they are indirectly saying that ordinary Russian people are responsible for the war and they should be punished. Good news for Putin. He will just play it to his own advantage and garner even more support from inside Russia.

alegotardo

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Quote from: Silberman on March 16, 2022, 02:35:12 PM

Quote from: Sithara007 on March 15, 2022, 10:12:02 PM

Anyone heard about the news on Chelsea owner (Roman Abramovich)? In this case, I am going to support the decision from UEFA and FIFA. They have removed the oligarch from the ownership and prohibited the sale of his share. I have also heard that the British government is considering to sell assets of oligarchs including Abramovich and use the proceedings for charity. In the long term, this will benefit the ordinary Russians as well. Corrupt oligarchs will be afraid to move their money out of Russia as a result of this.

I think we all understand what they are trying to do but at least in principle I cannot agree with that, after all I am part of this market and I believe on the principles behind bitcoin which allows you to be your own bank and doesn't allow for any third party to steal your money or your property with a few clicks as part of how the system is designed, so while I think it is fair to suspend some athletes or teams from international competitions this is just plain stealing.

Indeed,
We need to remember that many people who have nothing to do with this war are being harmed by the sanctions that are being imposed.

If even for those who are to blame for this war, we can say that they are being robbed... then what about those who lost their financial freedom without having any guilt in this war?

Bitcoin is a completely neutral monetary system in any situation, amazing how there are still people who don't see it and bet on it.

Silberman

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Quote from: Sithara007 on March 15, 2022, 10:12:02 PM

Anyone heard about the news on Chelsea owner (Roman Abramovich)? In this case, I am going to support the decision from UEFA and FIFA. They have removed the oligarch from the ownership and prohibited the sale of his share. I have also heard that the British government is considering to sell assets of oligarchs including Abramovich and use the proceedings for charity. In the long term, this will benefit the ordinary Russians as well. Corrupt oligarchs will be afraid to move their money out of Russia as a result of this.

I think we all understand what they are trying to do but at least in principle I cannot agree with that, after all I am part of this market and I believe on the principles behind bitcoin which allows you to be your own bank and doesn't allow for any third party to steal your money or your property with a few clicks as part of how the system is designed, so while I think it is fair to suspend some athletes or teams from international competitions this is just plain stealing.

KTChampions

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Quote from: Ondekinecakabilirim on March 16, 2022, 10:40:06 AM

Quote from: KTChampions on March 15, 2022, 02:01:08 PM

This is the right decision. You perceive it as a tool to influence politics and say that this tool does not work. Yes it is. But it shouldn't work because it's not a tool in this case. It is a simple moral act to cut all ties with the killer and aggressor. You can't go to war with a bandit in the morning and innocently play poker or football with him (or his best friend in robbery and murder) later in the evening. Distance from criminals in all areas is the right and traditional decision.

Putin made the wrong and bad decision. Even most Russian citizens say this decision is wrong. Even those who voted for him. In this case, I don't think it's right to blame everyone. You cannot close all bakeries because the murder was committed with a bread knife. I don't think it's fair to punish people who had nothing to do with the murder. I respect your views. I wish the war to end. Thank you.

I am from Russia and believe me, I also suffered from various bans, but I understand their meaning. No matter how much we want universal justice, bombs, for example, in Berlin on the 45th fell on both fascists and anti-fascists. Every decision backfires even on "innocent" parties, such is life. I respect your views too, thank you.

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Quote from: KTChampions on March 15, 2022, 02:01:08 PM

Quote from: Ondekinecakabilirim on March 13, 2022, 11:47:02 AM

Bad decision for everyone. I don't think football clubs have anything to do with politics. Sports and politics are different categories. Therefore, I think it is a wrong idea to ban football clubs from tournaments due to political imposition. Because you cannot punish the right person with this prohibition. The Russian Government has faced dozens of economic sanctions. But they did not give up on their decision. Why should they take this sanction seriously? Sanctioning football clubs does not punish the right person. I think the decision is wrong.

This is the right decision. You perceive it as a tool to influence politics and say that this tool does not work. Yes it is. But it shouldn't work because it's not a tool in this case. It is a simple moral act to cut all ties with the killer and aggressor. You can't go to war with a bandit in the morning and innocently play poker or football with him (or his best friend in robbery and murder) later in the evening. Distance from criminals in all areas is the right and traditional decision.

Putin made the wrong and bad decision. Even most Russian citizens say this decision is wrong. Even those who voted for him. In this case, I don't think it's right to blame everyone. You cannot close all bakeries because the murder was committed with a bread knife. I don't think it's fair to punish people who had nothing to do with the murder. I respect your views. I wish the war to end. Thank you.

Sithara007

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Anyone heard about the news on Chelsea owner (Roman Abramovich)? In this case, I am going to support the decision from UEFA and FIFA. They have removed the oligarch from the ownership and prohibited the sale of his share. I have also heard that the British government is considering to sell assets of oligarchs including Abramovich and use the proceedings for charity. In the long term, this will benefit the ordinary Russians as well. Corrupt oligarchs will be afraid to move their money out of Russia as a result of this.

KTChampions

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Quote from: Ondekinecakabilirim on March 13, 2022, 11:47:02 AM

Bad decision for everyone. I don't think football clubs have anything to do with politics. Sports and politics are different categories. Therefore, I think it is a wrong idea to ban football clubs from tournaments due to political imposition. Because you cannot punish the right person with this prohibition. The Russian Government has faced dozens of economic sanctions. But they did not give up on their decision. Why should they take this sanction seriously? Sanctioning football clubs does not punish the right person. I think the decision is wrong.

This is the right decision. You perceive it as a tool to influence politics and say that this tool does not work. Yes it is. But it shouldn't work because it's not a tool in this case. It is a simple moral act to cut all ties with the killer and aggressor. You can't go to war with a bandit in the morning and innocently play poker or football with him (or his best friend in robbery and murder) later in the evening. Distance from criminals in all areas is the right and traditional decision.

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Quote from: DoublerHunter on March 09, 2022, 07:45:12 PM

^ I dont know if this has already been posted it here but it is a bit scary and I am worried when President Putin says this.
( "Don’t you dare enter military affairs, stick to football. Russia will play at Qatar 2022 FIFA World Cup or there will be no World Cup to talk about.”)
https://twitter.com/babra_williams/status/1500072304478408704
There is a lot of Tweet on Twitter and I will not drop more links here just research your own. How does anyone think on this is FIFA will continue because of what Putin said?

Those comments have received a lot of publicity but other than a world war I do not see how the world cup can be stopped, in all honestly I am surprised that Putin took the time to comment on the issue, after all when we consider the resistance that he is facing at Ukraine or the huge economic sanctions that Russia received, being disqualified from the UEFA playoffs seems like something small on comparison.

Still I would not worry about something like this, it is true the Russian army is strong but at the same time Ukraine is showing the world they are not as fearsome as we thought.

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Quote from: ajochems on March 05, 2022, 03:32:38 PM

If you want my answer with emotions, my answer will be good decision. Because Russia stands on war was not changed yet.Most of us not get out from the corona impact and Corona news. What made Russian to fight and kill the people of Ukraine. Only the International idea person can give a clear explanation for this. After corona, many country was recovering only now, but this war news was unacceptable to many country peoples.

Very right - we were not out of Corona War and yet to see another war. Heard on my local news channel that Three Nato leader, Polish, Czech and Salvocien had travelled to KYIV to attend talks. The global reaction can show to the world that war is not much appreciated in the modern time. I wish the same kind of reaction would have been shown earlier when innocent muslim were killed in many islamic states - this would not have happen.

Ondekinecakabilirim

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Bad decision for everyone. I don't think football clubs have anything to do with politics. Sports and politics are different categories. Therefore, I think it is a wrong idea to ban football clubs from tournaments due to political imposition. Because you cannot punish the right person with this prohibition. The Russian Government has faced dozens of economic sanctions. But they did not give up on their decision. Why should they take this sanction seriously? Sanctioning football clubs does not punish the right person. I think the decision is wrong.

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Quote from: mv1986 on March 13, 2022, 10:57:02 AM

Quote from: galambo on March 13, 2022, 05:13:19 AM

Quote from: mv1986 on March 12, 2022, 04:07:41 PM

I won't argue that you don't have a point, but let's assume the FIFA made a mistake for NOT excluding USA for the Iraq invasion. Does your logic lead you to the conclusion that they should either correct that mistake for the future and exclude invaders, or are you deriving the conclusion that since the FIFA made a mistake with USA and Iraq, they should keep doing the same mistake throughout the future forever with any other country that invades acknowledged foreign territory? I think the FIFA should rather correct their mistake and exclude any nation for actions as we see them now from Russia.

PS: I'd like to know whether you think that Russia vs. Ukraine is 1:1 comparable to USA vs. Iraq. At least Russia didn't have a 9/11.

FIFA and UEFA had made mistakes many times not just once. Iraq was invaded and nothing happened, same for Afghanistan and Libya. But this time since an ally of USA and west was invaded we are seeing sanctions and protest against Russia. The world has dual face, one of weak and other for powerful.

Ask Russia and they will tell you why they attack ukarine, for them reason may be bigger then 9/11.

Again, I am not saying that the UEFA and FIFA didn't make mistakes in the past. My question to you is: should they rather correct those mistakes in the future or should they keep making mistakes for everyone because they did it for the USA in the past? If we follow that logic we'll be going back to Stone Age. If X kills a member of family Y, family Y MUST kill one member of family X. No other options can be considered. Sounds smart.

Nothing can be corrected in the past but they could change the future. It's surprising that we don't talk about why there was the need to occupy Ukraine in the first place but after finding out so many US-funded biological laboratories in Ukraine, I think it's justified for them as much as 9/11. Russians however prevented the version of 9/11 in their country.

But the sports organizations seem to have found themselves in predicament because of world politics which sanctioning the athletes is much easier to do than finding a fair judgment.

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Quote from: mv1986 on March 13, 2022, 10:57:02 AM

Quote from: galambo on March 13, 2022, 05:13:19 AM

Quote from: mv1986 on March 12, 2022, 04:07:41 PM

I won't argue that you don't have a point, but let's assume the FIFA made a mistake for NOT excluding USA for the Iraq invasion. Does your logic lead you to the conclusion that they should either correct that mistake for the future and exclude invaders, or are you deriving the conclusion that since the FIFA made a mistake with USA and Iraq, they should keep doing the same mistake throughout the future forever with any other country that invades acknowledged foreign territory? I think the FIFA should rather correct their mistake and exclude any nation for actions as we see them now from Russia.

PS: I'd like to know whether you think that Russia vs. Ukraine is 1:1 comparable to USA vs. Iraq. At least Russia didn't have a 9/11.

FIFA and UEFA had made mistakes many times not just once. Iraq was invaded and nothing happened, same for Afghanistan and Libya. But this time since an ally of USA and west was invaded we are seeing sanctions and protest against Russia. The world has dual face, one of weak and other for powerful.

Ask Russia and they will tell you why they attack ukarine, for them reason may be bigger then 9/11.

Again, I am not saying that the UEFA and FIFA didn't make mistakes in the past. My question to you is: should they rather correct those mistakes in the future or should they keep making mistakes for everyone because they did it for the USA in the past? If we follow that logic we'll be going back to Stone Age. If X kills a member of family Y, family Y MUST kill one member of family X. No other options can be considered. Sounds smart.

The question here is rather not about the future and the past, whether the United States should be excluded in the future, but that double standards rule in the world - when nothing happens to the "strong" countries, and weak countries receive sanctions, and most often for giving back.
It is clear that now they will say that Russia attacked Ukraine and this is justified, but what about Saudi Arabia, which attacked Yemen, and Israel, which is fighting in the Gaza Strip.
Fifa turns a blind eye to this because they are all under the protection of the United States and a lot of money is involved there.
Therefore, it would be fair for Fifa not to interfere in politics at all, or to exclude ANYONE who starts a war \ special operation and attacks another country, regardless of his motives.

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Quote from: galambo on March 13, 2022, 05:13:19 AM

Quote from: mv1986 on March 12, 2022, 04:07:41 PM

I won't argue that you don't have a point, but let's assume the FIFA made a mistake for NOT excluding USA for the Iraq invasion. Does your logic lead you to the conclusion that they should either correct that mistake for the future and exclude invaders, or are you deriving the conclusion that since the FIFA made a mistake with USA and Iraq, they should keep doing the same mistake throughout the future forever with any other country that invades acknowledged foreign territory? I think the FIFA should rather correct their mistake and exclude any nation for actions as we see them now from Russia.

PS: I'd like to know whether you think that Russia vs. Ukraine is 1:1 comparable to USA vs. Iraq. At least Russia didn't have a 9/11.

FIFA and UEFA had made mistakes many times not just once. Iraq was invaded and nothing happened, same for Afghanistan and Libya. But this time since an ally of USA and west was invaded we are seeing sanctions and protest against Russia. The world has dual face, one of weak and other for powerful.

Ask Russia and they will tell you why they attack ukarine, for them reason may be bigger then 9/11.

Again, I am not saying that the UEFA and FIFA didn't make mistakes in the past. My question to you is: should they rather correct those mistakes in the future or should they keep making mistakes for everyone because they did it for the USA in the past? If we follow that logic we'll be going back to Stone Age. If X kills a member of family Y, family Y MUST kill one member of family X. No other options can be considered. Sounds smart.

Gosgosking

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I wouldn't blame Russia footballers or athletic for all this things that are happening, it is not their fault and they nothing about it FIFA would have bear with them knowing that every blame and fault is from the Russia president, innocent citizens should not be hold responsible for the action of Russia president.

Topic: FIFA and UEFA has suspended Russian Football teams. - page 7. (Read 1677 times)