First BFL ASIC! - page 16. | Bitcointalksearch.org

Luke-Jr

legendary

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Quote from: Dalkore on April 03, 2013, 12:16:40 AM

Quote from: Luke-Jr on April 02, 2013, 10:13:57 PM

BTW, I started out that semi-long post I made a few minutes ago with the intention of presenting arguments for both sides.
I was surprised that I couldn't come up with any good arguments for the post-April betters... but it is what it is.

Try reading the title of the bet and see if you may figure any "intent" of what people might be actually betting on. When I do that, it talks about a product "shipping".

The title seems to suggest an intent of referring to the product being with customers - that's usually what "shipping" refers to.
If the title were on its own, I would agree completely with the post-April position.
However, the details specifically elaborate on the definition of the bet, and that definition seems to have been met.

Micon

legendary

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FPV Drone Pilot

Quote from: Luke-Jr on April 03, 2013, 12:09:58 AM

Quote from: Micon on April 03, 2013, 12:05:42 AM

Quote from: Luke-Jr on April 03, 2013, 12:03:40 AM

It says enough when all you have is ad hominem and no logical arguments.

here is a logical argument: who took the picture that is accepted as the "hashrate" for this device?

Josh did, nobody's trying to hide or deny that.

Quote from: Micon on April 03, 2013, 12:05:42 AM

should a BFL employee taking the pic be considered valid evidence of a hashrate?

I don't see why not. I mean, as far as hashrate is concerned I could have just as easily taken a picture of my own screen.

since we are ignoring the title of this bet, we must throw out the shipping. so we know the device sits in BFL's offices and Josh Zerlan took the picture. LukeJr is claiming to be the owner of this device.

So now let's look at the only part of the statement in question:

Quote

For this statement to be false, both of the two following conditions must be met:

• Before April 1st 2013, at least one BFL customer with a bitcointalk.org forum account established prior to the bet's opening date shall post detailed and credible photos of the device on the forum, including photos of it operating, and report its hashrate. This customer cannot be a BFL employee.

• The device must achieve at least 75% of its advertised hashrate.

-- A BFL employee took a picture of it operating
-- a "credible photo" cannot be taken by a BFL employee. It is against all common sense.
-- LukeJr can be considered a BFL Employee. He is doing work for them in exchange for compensation.

Phinnaeus Gage

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Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending

Luke posted OP on April 01, 2013, 12:36:32 AM.

Top image in OP taken on March 31, 2013 11:53:12PM.

Bottom image in OP taken on March 31, 2013 11:40:49PM.

@Luke: How did you receive the message from Josh that images were available depicting your unit?

KGambler

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Merit: 100

Quote from: Minor Miner on April 03, 2013, 12:15:48 AM

can someone put a bet up on a competing betting site giving a fair over/under amount or something for a fair future date predicting the demise of this joke of a fair betting site? I would NEVER gamble on it. in vegas, it would be empty right now and even the cocktail waitresses would be leaving knowing it was doomed.

What they did really makes you wonder if they had some kind of stake in the outcome. Neither the decision nor the manner in which they announced it makes any sense. Shouldn't they at least EXPLAIN how they came to this decision?

Dalkore

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Mining since 2010 & Hosting since 2012

Quote from: Luke-Jr on April 02, 2013, 10:13:57 PM

BTW, I started out that semi-long post I made a few minutes ago with the intention of presenting arguments for both sides.
I was surprised that I couldn't come up with any good arguments for the post-April betters... but it is what it is.

Try reading the title of the bet and see if you may figure any "intent" of what people might be actually betting on. When I do that, it talks about a product "shipping".

Minor Miner

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Activity: 2478

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Be A Digital Miner

can someone put a bet up on a competing betting site giving a fair over/under amount or something for a fair future date predicting the demise of this joke of a fair betting site? I would NEVER gamble on it. in vegas, it would be empty right now and even the cocktail waitresses would be leaving knowing it was doomed.

Luke-Jr

legendary

Activity: 2576

Merit: 1186

Quote from: Micon on April 03, 2013, 12:05:42 AM

Quote from: Luke-Jr on April 03, 2013, 12:03:40 AM

It says enough when all you have is ad hominem and no logical arguments.

here is a logical argument: who took the picture that is accepted as the "hashrate" for this device?

Josh did, nobody's trying to hide or deny that.

Quote from: Micon on April 03, 2013, 12:05:42 AM

should a BFL employee taking the pic be considered valid evidence of a hashrate?

I don't see why not. I mean, as far as hashrate is concerned I could have just as easily taken a picture of my own screen.

Micon

legendary

Activity: 1232

Merit: 1014

FPV Drone Pilot

Quote from: Luke-Jr on April 03, 2013, 12:03:40 AM

It says enough when all you have is ad hominem and no logical arguments.

here is a logical argument: who took the picture that is accepted as the "hashrate" for this device?

should a BFL employee taking the pic be considered valid evidence of a hashrate?

Bitcoinassasin

newbie

Activity: 48

Merit: 0

Quote from: Syke on April 02, 2013, 11:46:42 PM

Quote from: Luke-Jr on April 02, 2013, 11:35:55 PM

I have it hashing away 24/7 except for when I stop/restart/debug BFGMiner to try to optimize it better.

At what location is the device?

"Hashing away 24/7" in fairytale land and not in his possession. Idiotic that he contradicted himself there.
Luke is in with BFL and is another puppet in the mix of the on going shitpile of bs BFL creates on a daily basis. More like monthly unless your about to add another preorder to the mix.

Luke-Jr

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It says enough when all you have is ad hominem and no logical arguments.

KGambler

full member

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Merit: 100

Wow, this is just crazy. Is betsofbitco.in just a website created by a teenager or something? How could they possibly be this inept?

Not only did they come to a hare-brained conclusion, but they didn't even bother to create a summary of their decision. As an escrow service addressing a dispute, shouldn't they provide a point-by-point writeup of the correspondence they received, the arguments they considered and the reasoning behind the judgements they made?

This site was never a serious escrow service. It's just some clown who knows how to do a little coding but knows nothing about being an escrow or an arbitrator.

Both betsofbitco.in and Luke Jr. deserve scammer tags in my opinion. Betsofbitco.in is masquerading as an escrow service but they don't have the slightest clue what they are doing. They are not willing or able to make decisions based upon facts or logic, they are not willing to declare a losing side of a bet and they provide no explanation whatsoever to go with their insane rulings. Luke Jr. has not only been evasive in this thread, but he's also gone out of his way to deceive.

This is all very disgusting to see.

Micon

legendary

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FPV Drone Pilot

1) lukejr shows extremely poor character shilling for BFL on the matter of this wager

2) Scam Accusation started: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=165500.0 please pile in, coinjedi needs a scammer tag and betsofbitco.in must be lit up.

Nancarrow

hero member

Activity: 492

Merit: 503

Quote from: ninjarobot on April 02, 2013, 02:26:15 PM

1) The fact that BFL seems to care more about winning a bet than delivering a solid product to customers speaks volumes.

2) The way they tried to win this bet speaks volumes about the dishonest way they conduct their business. It is borderline scammy.

I'm sorry, but as far as BFL customers are concerned this is a FAIL on two counts. Regardless if BFL wins this silly bet or not. Get a clue folks and set your priorities straight.

This, a thousand times this. While I've long thought Josh was an abrasive loudmouthed tit, I never realised he's quite as slimy as this. And Luke... I had him pegged as an 'upstanding member of the community', and now I see him stooping to this stunt. Yuck. And in the last few hours he's returned to the thread to show how he's not yet finished sucking BFL's cock.

Syke

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Quote from: Luke-Jr on April 02, 2013, 11:35:55 PM

I have it hashing away 24/7 except for when I stop/restart/debug BFGMiner to try to optimize it better.

At what location is the device?

Logik

sr. member

Activity: 315

Merit: 255

So, where is the enclosure

You can't ship a product until it's fully assembled, and you can't fully assemble an electronic product until the PCB is inside an enclosure.

Is the thing in the pictures really a production enclosure or is it a mounting tray used in development / testing?

Micon

legendary

Activity: 1232

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FPV Drone Pilot

1) for those that say "you just didn't win, you didn't lose anything" you just don't understand gambling or equity.

2) I just withdrew my refunded bet, as I'm sure all the guys that got away free betting the wrong side also did, so there will be no recourse here for those of us that rightfully won the bet and got fucked.

3) A fee was taken from my wager! lol betsofbitco.in, extremely classy

4) I will start the scammer tag thread in Scam accusations. This is inexcusable. I also believe we need a forum ad saying not to ever wager on this site.

5) There is no possible way this bet could ever legitimately end in a push. That is just amateur hour, it makes big-stakes statement betting for BTC look amateur hour, and coinjedi is a scammer.

6) coinjedi took 1 .jpg that Josh Zerlan snapped as accepted "hashrate" - and what was the posted hashrate again? how the fuck is 24 > 75% of 40?? not a video declaring said hashrate? just a pic by a BFL employee good enough?

whatever, live and learn. Do not ever use betsofbitco.in.

let's unleash holy hell on them IMO.

Luke-Jr

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Activity: 2576

Merit: 1186

Quote from: ab8989 on April 02, 2013, 11:38:30 PM

Can you, Luke-Jr, show the calculation how you get the result that the observed realized hashrate fulfills the 75% criteria. I see you have shown to have the opinion that there are absolutely no arguments for the 'BFL has failed' position

Little Single was advertised as 30 Gh/s. 75% of 30 is 22.5.

ab8989

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FUTURE OF CRYPTO IS HERE!

Can you, Luke-Jr, show the calculation how you get the result that the observed realized hashrate fulfills the 75% criteria. I see you have shown to have the opinion that there are absolutely no arguments for the 'BFL has failed' position

Bicknellski

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Activity: 924

Merit: 1000

I think there is NO wiggle room whatsoever. Did the product leave the facility and arrive at the users location? Come on we all know that they are playing semantics so they don't have to pay... that is welching plain and simple. This is clearly a sign of a LACK of INTEGRITY. The more we see of these people playing fast and loose with the 'truth' as they see it the more it should put people in the mindset they are not to be trusted.

I have yet to see anything from BFL at this point that warrants the communities trust, in fact at almost every turn including this one they are proving to be untrustworthy and morally bankrupt. Reputations are made by the decisions you make particularly those that are clearly visible to the general public.

If you didn't have a reason to cancel your order and look for an alternative to BFL then this might be time. To what lengths will BFL go to "Win" or "Nullify" their OBLIGATIONS?

Time to ignore LukeJr and others involved in this welched bet they have proven they are unworthy of my time.

Quote

welching present participle of welsh
Verb
Fail to honor (a debt or obligation incurred through a promise or agreement).

Luke-Jr

legendary

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Merit: 1186

Quote from: ab8989 on April 02, 2013, 11:03:47 PM

Let me then speculate, but for this truly to be Luke-Jr's shipped product, both of the two following speculative assumptions must definitely be false:

1) BFL guys are still continuing to hit those bits and pieces on the table with an oscilloscope, SW debugging tools and various other lab testing equipment and they are not keeping it fully powered on hashing 24/7 in the fear it will overheat and die setting fire to the whole building before they are able to find out everything what is wrong with it.

I can confirm this is false. I have it hashing away 24/7 except for when I stop/restart/debug BFGMiner to try to optimize it better.

Quote from: ab8989 on April 02, 2013, 11:03:47 PM

2) Luke-Jr's unit will be swapped for a working production model that is going to be actually shipped to him as soon as they are finished as this abortion on the table will be thrown into trashcan by BFL employees either at the moment when finished products are available or when this unit dies from overheating whichever happens sooner and Luke-Jr is not going to feel sorry for 'his' unit. Maybe for the lost bitcoins, but not for 'his unit'.

I have no qualms with making use of the warranty, but once BFL has the rest of my order ready I certainly intend this one to be shipped along with it. In the meantime, I prefer to keep it right where it is until at least the next difficulty adjustment. Wink

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