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Topic: Innosilicon releases A9 Zmaster 50ksol/s Equihash miner at 620W - page 52. (Read 45438 times)

newbie
Activity: 88
Merit: 0
Anyone who pays 10k for Inno's miners is in for a rude wake up call because it will be making $10 a day in 2 months.

For this to be true;
A9 Current profit @ 700M sols: $130/day
Total Nethash required @ $10/day per A9: 9,100M sols

182,000 A9 Zmaster shipped within 2 months

Yeah probably not.
Its a fact. The Decred Miners were making $200 a day and now 2 months later they are down to $30 a day and Inno had no competition from Bitmain. Now you can compare the A3 miner that Bitmain released vs Inno's S11 and the A3 was making $800 a day when first released but now 3 months later it is obsolete, can't even pay for electricity and the S11 makes $8 a day. This is very real and everyone should be scared.

There you said it, my Batch 1 A3 made $100-$500/day for 3 weeks effectively paying itself off and some more. I don't see any risk for batch 1 A3 buyer. But if you buy an August or later batch your mileage may vary.
I got 12 of the first batch A3 miners and if I sold as I mined I would have made my money back but I just held and the coin dropped from .07 to where it is now so I'm stuck holding until I can get my money back but I'm sitting at a huge loss right now. By week 3 for the A3's they were only making about $50 a day each then 1 month later $20 and that was when Inno released theirs. 1 month later the A3 was dead and no more chance to make back my money. I bought a batch 1 B29 from Halong and they said they were the only ones that partnered with Samsung to create the Decred miners which was a lie since Inno also bought the rights to make miners with Samsung tech and 2 weeks after receiving my B29, Inno started pumping out their D9 decred miners as fast as possible until the network got flooded and they are still pumping out miners even though they killed the Decred miner from mining 3 decred a day down to .25 decred a day. When will they stop??? I'm guessing they will only stop flooding the market when people stop buying.
hero member
Activity: 895
Merit: 504
Anyone who pays 10k for Inno's miners is in for a rude wake up call because it will be making $10 a day in 2 months.

For this to be true;
A9 Current profit @ 700M sols: $130/day
Total Nethash required @ $10/day per A9: 9,100M sols

182,000 A9 Zmaster shipped within 2 months

Yeah probably not.
Its a fact. The Decred Miners were making $200 a day and now 2 months later they are down to $30 a day and Inno had no competition from Bitmain. Now you can compare the A3 miner that Bitmain released vs Inno's S11 and the A3 was making $800 a day when first released but now 3 months later it is obsolete, can't even pay for electricity and the S11 makes $8 a day. This is very real and everyone should be scared.

There you said it, my Batch 1 A3 made $100-$500/day for 3 weeks effectively paying itself off and some more. I don't see any risk for batch 1 A3 buyer. But if you buy an August or later batch your mileage may vary.
sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 252
I don't believe anyone would risk $ 10,000 for this equipment. Z 9 from Bittman is less productive but is much cheaper. The first batch should be ready by the end of this month. These buyers may have time to return 1/3 of their investments before the next batch. Inno buyers have no chance to get their money back at all.
newbie
Activity: 88
Merit: 0
Anyone who pays 10k for Inno's miners is in for a rude wake up call because it will be making $10 a day in 2 months.

For this to be true;
A9 Current profit @ 700M sols: $130/day
Total Nethash required @ $10/day per A9: 9,100M sols

182,000 A9 Zmaster shipped within 2 months

Yeah probably not.
Its a fact. The Decred Miners were making $200 a day and now 2 months later they are down to $30 a day and Inno had no competition from Bitmain. Now you can compare the A3 miner that Bitmain released vs Inno's S11 and the A3 was making $800 a day when first released but now 3 months later it is obsolete, can't even pay for electricity and the S11 makes $8 a day. This is very real and everyone should be scared. The A9 was making $130 a day but not anymore now its down to $112 and dropping like a rock. Whoever thinks they will make their $10,000 back in 6 months is delusional.
full member
Activity: 325
Merit: 110
Anyone who pays 10k for Inno's miners is in for a rude wake up call because it will be making $10 a day in 2 months.

For this to be true;
A9 Current profit @ 700M sols: $130/day
Total Nethash required @ $10/day per A9: 9,100M sols

182,000 A9 Zmaster shipped within 2 months

Yeah probably not.
full member
Activity: 325
Merit: 110
I have R9 390 mining with $0.16/kWh. For the rig, the revenue is $5.1, electricity is $3.84. The profit is $1.26 per rig. So it just needs the difficulty to rise 25% to make it no profitable.

Fair point. Rev isn't profit.
hero member
Activity: 895
Merit: 504
Look at what Inno did to the new Decred miners. They have been pumping out 20k miners each month to where they flooded the market and it will take 2 years for anyone to make their investment back and that was without Bitmain entering the market. Now it will be Inno vs Bitmain to see who can flood the market the fastest and I expect Bitmains miners to be obsolete in 2 months which is what happened to the A3's for siacoin. Anyone who pays 10k for Inno's miners is in for a rude wake up call because it will be making $10 a day in 2 months.

If A9 makes $10/day in 2 months, we are in a dire situation because nothing else will make even a $1 after electricity. ROI of 6-12 months is realistic and has been the norm since 2012, but we were spoiled during last year's spike and anything beyond 30 day ROI is an anomaly now Wink
newbie
Activity: 88
Merit: 0
Look at what Inno did to the new Decred miners. They have been pumping out 20k miners each month to where they flooded the market and it will take 2 years for anyone to make their investment back and that was without Bitmain entering the market. Now it will be Inno vs Bitmain to see who can flood the market the fastest and I expect Bitmains miners to be obsolete in 2 months which is what happened to the A3's for siacoin. Anyone who pays 10k for Inno's miners is in for a rude wake up call because it will be making $10 a day in 2 months.
jr. member
Activity: 62
Merit: 6
legendary
Activity: 1554
Merit: 1008
Congrats on a9 buyers, they get a free miner with their purchase now, t2 or s11 or a5 or a4+. Not bad.
Gifts and other s(t says about its sales don't seems good for they )

and for crypto-holders this price 1.5 btc  is soooo unrealistic for roi...

80 ltc - maybe., 88 - little overpriced...  100-110- stupid.
sr. member
Activity: 489
Merit: 253
Congrats on a9 buyers, they get a free miner with their purchase now, t2 or s11 or a5 or a4+. Not bad.
full member
Activity: 325
Merit: 110

ZCash isn't quite as well off, but it'll still probably take months for the Z9 and competition to drop profitability by half even though the efficiency of the new ASICs is a ton better than existing GPUs.


I know you're a veteran here and i've actually followed your posts in the bitcoin mining section but really? How can you seriously say that it will take the Z9 and similar ASICs to drop profitability when we already see that GPU mining equihash has already tanked, TODAY.

You may argue that $0.1 is still profit but seriously, the Z9 ASICs are still arriving and a huge spike in difficulty is still incoming. Not to mention this new beast by A9 zmaster which does 5 times the hashrate of the Z9. Are you mining with free electricity? In what world will equihash still be profitable?

Why don't you assess the factual parts of what he said?

"Months before profitability halves"

That's fairly accurate based on what I've calculated. Of course it doesn't factor in the entire market dropping 10%, etc, which is probably what you're referring to in today's 'tanking'.

Total Nethash of all Equihash mineable coins; 700mh
This was actually 750mh 3 weeks ago, or about 1,500,000 1070ti equivalent.

Ask yourself how many ASIC need to be pumped out to halve profits?
700,000,000 sols worth - 14,000 A9 Zmaster or 70,000 Z9 mini.

Ask yourself how quickly that will ship? and pay attention to the dialogue coming from Bitmain / Innosilicon. Read between the lines.
Both are doing small Batch 1 with much larger quantities "in a couple of months"

Now honestly assess the profitability for GPU mining Equihash, ignoring market movements.

low% chance that profits are halved prior to August 1st.
high% chance that profits are halved during August
Almost certain that profits are halved by September 1st.

Now I ask you again, look at the facts of what he has said and then look at what you have written.


PS: in case you skimmed the Innosilicon announcement:

Quote
A9 ZMaster is in stock and ready to ship right away based on payment order with limited quantity. The sales price is $9999 shipping from Hong Kong starting June 10th based on payment sequence. The 1st 300 batch one customers will receive free shipping and free PSU. Hosting service is optional. Batch one shipment will end on June 25th as long as stock lasts. Batch two shipment starts on August 15th with ASICs offering.

A9 Zmaster is the most profitable miner today. Be sure to be the 1st to own. We believe Batch One customers will enjoy great mining experience with little competition for a few months, as it will take a few months for anyone  to be able to produce another decent batch after this limited shipment anyway.

They are literally telling you what QuintLeo has said.
member
Activity: 182
Merit: 11
CryptoTalk.Org - Get Paid for every Post!

ZCash isn't quite as well off, but it'll still probably take months for the Z9 and competition to drop profitability by half even though the efficiency of the new ASICs is a ton better than existing GPUs.


I know you're a veteran here and i've actually followed your posts in the bitcoin mining section but really? How can you seriously say that it will take the Z9 and similar ASICs to drop profitability when we already see that GPU mining equihash has already tanked, TODAY.

You may argue that $0.1 is still profit but seriously, the Z9 ASICs are still arriving and a huge spike in difficulty is still incoming. Not to mention this new beast by A9 zmaster which does 5 times the hashrate of the Z9. Are you mining with free electricity? In what world will equihash still be profitable?
jr. member
Activity: 248
Merit: 8
OCTOMINER has the Innosilicon A9 ZMASTER , todays price is 9190USD per unit! Shipping June 11-15th.
Contact us at [email protected] if you are interested. Bulk quantities available.
legendary
Activity: 1498
Merit: 1030
Scrypt was big enough to absorb that hash rate and I admit I didn't think it could.  However X11 looks a lot more like equihash to me.  So that is why I am worried here.  I too ordered some batch 1 Z9's and now am sweating it.  Now just have to wait and see what happens.

Scrypt had the equivalent of many thousands of L3 units in total network hashrate before the L3 was released, which let it soak a ton of hashrate while staying profitable for a long time even before the Big Price Jump in Spring 2017.

The original L3 also was close to the same hashrate as the Alcheminer and only a bit over double the biggest A2 units, it mostly won based on much better efficiency than even the Titan.


ZCash isn't quite as well off, but it'll still probably take months for the Z9 and competition to drop profitability by half even though the efficiency of the new ASICs is a ton better than existing GPUs.


full member
Activity: 289
Merit: 107
Looks like bitcoin gold is moving forward with an algo change so can scratch that one off the A9 and z9 list.
full member
Activity: 1022
Merit: 221
We are not retail.
ROI is bout 80 days if plugged in today and batch 1 will be two months ahead of batch 2. Coin profits will drive where the hash goes but you're pretty safe from forks for a couple months at least. You're much safer buying now as opposed to batch 2. Then with batch two price should be lower and forking announcements could happen prior to batch release. I wouldn't be to nervous about a single unit purchase of an A9. Even then there will still be places like nicehash that will run your asics for profit like they do with cryptonight and X11.
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 517
Scrypt was big enough to absorb that hash rate and I admit I didn't think it could.  However X11 looks a lot more like equihash to me.  So that is why I am worried here.  I too ordered some batch 1 Z9's and now am sweating it.  Now just have to wait and see what happens.
hero member
Activity: 895
Merit: 504
I am having a hard time seeing how anyone is going to ROI on these rigs now.  And at this price point on the A9 that seems unrealistic. 

Profit on these miners is already collapsing fast.  By the time customers have them in hand it is going to be a horse race to see how much you can get back before coins are forked and profit has evaporated. 

Too bad all these companies start mining and driving up diff so high before customers have a chance to earn something.  In this market it is getting hard to justify any mining purchases. 

If you are watching diff take off on some of the other algos also we know new miners are coming on scrypt and sha256.  Again by the time anyone can buy the new miners the chances of getting your money back is pretty slim.  Starting to make POS coins look attractive! LOL

I hope that doesn't become the reality here (as a buyer of both Z9s and A9, lol). I remember same stuff was said last year when Bitmain announced L3+, but whoever took a risk were rewarded handsomely. Just to give an example 1 hashnest L3+ bought at $1836 returned $10k if it was sold after 40-60 days of mining. I am guessing lots of Nvidia gpus will be mining something other than Zec when all A9s/Z9s go online so difficulty increase won't be as bad as X11 when cheap D3s flooded the market. Even now NH pays more for 1080 tis. Of course everything will change if Zec forks.
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 517
I am having a hard time seeing how anyone is going to ROI on these rigs now.  And at this price point on the A9 that seems unrealistic. 

Profit on these miners is already collapsing fast.  By the time customers have them in hand it is going to be a horse race to see how much you can get back before coins are forked and profit has evaporated. 

Too bad all these companies start mining and driving up diff so high before customers have a chance to earn something.  In this market it is getting hard to justify any mining purchases. 

If you are watching diff take off on some of the other algos also we know new miners are coming on scrypt and sha256.  Again by the time anyone can buy the new miners the chances of getting your money back is pretty slim.  Starting to make POS coins look attractive! LOL
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