Is taxation theft? - page 30. | Bitcointalksearch.org

Masha Sha

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Quote from: Uhde on July 16, 2017, 03:03:42 PM

Depends on country. In most of developped countries, governments use taxes for peoples benefits. But others, they just use for their own benefits.

Most of the time it goes in one form or the others to the friend of the admin in place, unless fatal purges for corruption start to be enforced. Naturally it proves in blood to soliders that their sacrifices aren't in vain and as such open the path to victory even sometime by example only!

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Uhde

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Depends on country. In most of developped countries, governments use taxes for peoples benefits. But others, they just use for their own benefits.

SativaDiva

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Taxation is most certainly theft since most of our tax dollars do not go into what the general public actually needs. It's sad to work so fucking hard and watch 30-100 bucks be taken out before you can even get what you earned.

Masha Sha

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Not if you are on the recevong end like those chicago university professor who makes 40000$ monthly in pension!!!!

King George only asked for 2%...

Rigorous

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From the moment you are born you make use of the infrastructure, labor, services and achievements of society. If you don't pay taxes, you are the thief.

CrownPolly

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Quote from: Elwar on July 16, 2017, 08:27:40 AM

Quote from: mruls on July 15, 2017, 10:42:45 AM

It is an unfortunate necessary evil in order for modern society to exist as it does. The income tax rate however I believe should be a flat rate for all income brackets, so we do not punish those for doing well.

Maybe modern society should not exist as it does. A society built on theft creates more problems than it fixes.

The fact is that at the expense of taxes, every state will bring it. Therefore, no country can exist without taxes. After all, we want to have social guarantees or even a good strong army that allows us to live in safety. This all needs money. Therefore, the replenishment of the state budget only at the expense of taxes. That's it about bets, that's another question. And it turns out that richer people pay less than the poorer people.

Elwar

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Quote from: mruls on July 15, 2017, 10:42:45 AM

It is an unfortunate necessary evil in order for modern society to exist as it does. The income tax rate however I believe should be a flat rate for all income brackets, so we do not punish those for doing well.

Maybe modern society should not exist as it does. A society built on theft creates more problems than it fixes.

mruls

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It is an unfortunate necessary evil in order for modern society to exist as it does. The income tax rate however I believe should be a flat rate for all income brackets, so we do not punish those for doing well.

kekcoindev

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If you didn't consent to someone taking your property, then it is theft! Is all theft unjust? Depends on your point of view.

Guzztsar

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Quote from: Cyberbits on July 12, 2017, 10:57:29 AM

Taxation is not theft, because citizens have agreed to pay taxes. This is part of the “social contract,” which is a kind of agreement between citizens and the government, whereby the citizens agree to pay taxes and obey the laws, in return for the government’s protection. By using government services (such as roads, schools, and police), and remaining present in the government’s territory, you indicate that you accept the social contract.

Sincerely, it's not healthy to believe that your security and basic services depend exclusively on the state

Quote from: Elwar on July 14, 2017, 04:32:01 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Taxation is not theft, because citizens have agreed to pay taxes. This is part of the “social contract,” which is a kind of agreement between citizens and the government, whereby the citizens agree to pay taxes and obey the laws, in return for the government’s protection. By using government services (such as roads, schools, and police), and remaining present in the government’s territory, you indicate that you accept the social contract.2

This picture says a lot. arguing against it is going to be hard

Elwar

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Taxation is not theft, because citizens have agreed to pay taxes. This is part of the “social contract,” which is a kind of agreement between citizens and the government, whereby the citizens agree to pay taxes and obey the laws, in return for the government’s protection. By using government services (such as roads, schools, and police), and remaining present in the government’s territory, you indicate that you accept the social contract.2

Elwar

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Quote from: Okurkabinladin on July 13, 2017, 11:47:22 AM

Quote from: Elwar on July 13, 2017, 04:28:50 AM

Quote from: kissmarx on July 13, 2017, 01:54:02 AM

If you feel robbed by the government, and

you hate getting taxed, it's simple, don't pay it.

And if you don't want your government to run after you, go to another country where taxes are not taken seriously.

If you hate getting raped it's simple, go some place where there are no men.

You are very frank, here, but... Ill admit you have a point. Men are men, because they take stand for what they believe for, not because they run or cower in fear everytime stranger tries to fuck them in the ass.

Taxation, its scope and the way the raised money is used HAS TO BE under scrutiny of public, not power hungry elites.

Or in the age of digital currencies, the Internet and advanced technologies we can come up with something other than extortion to derive funds for public projects.

One example of many yet to be tried methods would be Dominant Assurance Contracts

Why are new methods not being tried? Because the easiest solution is to have someone pay money under threat of violence. As long as that is socially acceptable, there is no easier method.

Okurkabinladin

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Quote from: Elwar on July 13, 2017, 04:28:50 AM

Quote from: kissmarx on July 13, 2017, 01:54:02 AM

If you feel robbed by the government, and

you hate getting taxed, it's simple, don't pay it.

And if you don't want your government to run after you, go to another country where taxes are not taken seriously.

If you hate getting raped it's simple, go some place where there are no men.

You are very frank, here, but... Ill admit you have a point. Men are men, because they take stand for what they believe for, not because they run or cower in fear everytime stranger tries to fuck them in the ass.

Taxation, its scope and the way the raised money is used HAS TO BE under scrutiny of public, not power hungry elites.

Elwar

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Quote from: kissmarx on July 13, 2017, 01:54:02 AM

If you feel robbed by the government, and

you hate getting taxed, it's simple, don't pay it.

And if you don't want your government to run after you, go to another country where taxes are not taken seriously.

If you hate getting raped it's simple, go some place where there are no men.

kissmarx

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If you feel robbed by the government, and

you hate getting taxed, it's simple, don't pay it.

And if you don't want your government to run after you, go to another country where taxes are not taken seriously.

galestorm

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Futurov

Taxation is a necessity for your country's economy to continue on growing and improving, it is levied by the government and all of us citizens must pay for it , if not then there's a chance that we'll go to jail. We basically dont have a choice , so we must abide with the rules that the government has set up to avoid further consequences. Taxation isnt considered theft , we can only truly call taxation as theft if the government does it unjustly ( when they spend our tax on their personal needs )

Sithara007

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Quote from: Elwar on July 12, 2017, 06:50:47 PM

Quote from: Cyberbits on July 12, 2017, 10:57:29 AM

Taxation is not theft, because citizens have agreed to pay taxes. This is part of the “social contract,” which is a kind of agreement between citizens and the government, whereby the citizens agree to pay taxes and obey the laws, in return for the government’s protection. By using government services (such as roads, schools, and police), and remaining present in the government’s territory, you indicate that you accept the social contract.

I do not consent.

It doesn't matter whether you are consenting or not, because you are not being given a choice. That is why I argue that the taxation should be at the lowest level. It should be the villages and municipalities which collect the taxes. If someone don't want to pay taxes, then he can move to a village, where there are no taxes.

Elwar

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Quote from: Cyberbits on July 12, 2017, 10:57:29 AM

Taxation is not theft, because citizens have agreed to pay taxes. This is part of the “social contract,” which is a kind of agreement between citizens and the government, whereby the citizens agree to pay taxes and obey the laws, in return for the government’s protection. By using government services (such as roads, schools, and police), and remaining present in the government’s territory, you indicate that you accept the social contract.

I do not consent.

BADecker

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Quote from: Cyberbits on July 12, 2017, 11:02:10 AM

Secondly I strongly believe that The government can’t be a thief, because it is the government that defines property rights through its laws. The government can simply make laws that say that the money you are supposed to pay in taxes isn’t really yours in the first place; it is the government’s money

Government does NOT define property rights through its laws. Government doesn't define any rights,

The 9th Amendment:

Quote from: https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/ninth_amendment

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Taxation wording in the Constitution limits the Government from having a pole tax... essentially a tax on income. The only reason why we have income tax is people THINK that Government has the right.

Foundational law in all the books states that if a person:
Demands a court of record trial,
And the accuser doesn't show up with some kind of damages,
And proof that you were the one who did the damages,
The accuser loses.

In federal income tax cases, the accuser is THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. If you stand as a man/woman, present in court (not represented in any way), your accuser has to be a man or woman. THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA is not a man or woman, can't take the oath or affirmation, can't get on the stand and speak how you hurt him into the record, can't show the harm you did to him (because there isn't any), essentially hasn't appeared in court. When he doesn't appear, you win.

In other words, income taxes are only due because people think they owe them, or because people don't know how to stand as a man or woman in court.

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Karl Lentz at Johnson City Tennessee - April 16th 2016

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qN3MI70PFBw

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Tzadik

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Taxation is theft; and theft is taxation.

Taxation is a compulsory payment. If you do not pay, you go to jail. If you resist on your way to jail, you will be "put down".

If someone steals $2000 you hid under your bed, but leaves a fruitcake at your door before you leave, it is no less theft than if he left nothing.

The fact that stolen funds are used to build roads that you may or may not end up using does not negate the fact that the funds were stolen.

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