Is taxation theft? - page 46. | Bitcointalksearch.org

riorondon1234

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Quote from: Abu Babu Bubabu on May 11, 2017, 12:38:53 PM

Quote from: Sithara007 on May 11, 2017, 09:29:46 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Sithara007 on May 11, 2017, 06:58:12 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

If they're so civilized why do they steal taxes at gunpoint?

Although I am opposed to over-taxation, I have a point to make here. If someone is not paying his taxes, then he is putting extra burden on the others. That is not fair. Either everyone pays, or everyone refuses to pay the taxes.

I'd be more than happy to give 90% of my income to a social fund but only if there's no police. As soon as the state starts terrorizing me and bullying me, sorry we're not friends anymore. As soon as I start to feel like I'm living in another mans cage, I'm going to start withdrawing my support.

Police is a necessity. Without the cops, there will be chaos everywhere and violent crime would spike. Obviously, I don't want the military like police which the United States is having. The cops must be lightly armed.

There is nothing wrong with anybody, including police, carrying weapons defensively.

There is a problem when there is little or no accountability for a group such as the police.

There is a very big problem still with random attacks by police officers on individuals, whether using their police 'powers' or their police 'weapons' or other things. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/10/us/politics/fbi-xi-xiaoxing.html

yes ... this coincide with my dispute with almost all sites online with chats .... i am banned 2000 times on 200 chats (about)
... they could ignore me every time ... but they preferred to ban me .... can I ignore them? ... no way .. dominators are mods and admins
so, we need recourse as you say "accountability" of polices and other powers ..... as solution i see our future people-providential system (paradigm-arrangement) Divine Universalism ...! ... users to become divinators

Abu Babu Bubabu

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Quote from: Sithara007 on May 11, 2017, 09:29:46 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Sithara007 on May 11, 2017, 06:58:12 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

If they're so civilized why do they steal taxes at gunpoint?

Although I am opposed to over-taxation, I have a point to make here. If someone is not paying his taxes, then he is putting extra burden on the others. That is not fair. Either everyone pays, or everyone refuses to pay the taxes.

I'd be more than happy to give 90% of my income to a social fund but only if there's no police. As soon as the state starts terrorizing me and bullying me, sorry we're not friends anymore. As soon as I start to feel like I'm living in another mans cage, I'm going to start withdrawing my support.

Police is a necessity. Without the cops, there will be chaos everywhere and violent crime would spike. Obviously, I don't want the military like police which the United States is having. The cops must be lightly armed.

There is nothing wrong with anybody, including police, carrying weapons defensively.

There is a problem when there is little or no accountability for a group such as the police.

There is a very big problem still with random attacks by police officers on individuals, whether using their police 'powers' or their police 'weapons' or other things. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/10/us/politics/fbi-xi-xiaoxing.html

JefLiber

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Activity: 476

Merit: 100

And indeed the topic of taxes is very acute in society, regardless of the country in which people live. The last government that has climbed in our country and the Parliament are doing everything recently in order to come up with more and more stringent new taxes. To be honest, I'm no longer sure that my property is really mine.

Sithara007

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Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Sithara007 on May 11, 2017, 06:58:12 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

If they're so civilized why do they steal taxes at gunpoint?

Although I am opposed to over-taxation, I have a point to make here. If someone is not paying his taxes, then he is putting extra burden on the others. That is not fair. Either everyone pays, or everyone refuses to pay the taxes.

I'd be more than happy to give 90% of my income to a social fund but only if there's no police. As soon as the state starts terrorizing me and bullying me, sorry we're not friends anymore. As soon as I start to feel like I'm living in another mans cage, I'm going to start withdrawing my support.

Police is a necessity. Without the cops, there will be chaos everywhere and violent crime would spike. Obviously, I don't want the military like police which the United States is having. The cops must be lightly armed.

Sithara007

legendary

Activity: 3346

Merit: 1352

Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

Quote from: ?? on ??

If they're so civilized why do they steal taxes at gunpoint?

Although I am opposed to over-taxation, I have a point to make here. If someone is not paying his taxes, then he is putting extra burden on the others. That is not fair. Either everyone pays, or everyone refuses to pay the taxes.

mainpmf

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 250

Quote from: freeyourmind on May 10, 2017, 11:18:41 PM

"Public service" isn't always what it seems. For example, if the public no longer wants a particular service and would rather not fund it, would those public servants gladly get laid off? Or would they value their own personal job and income over the service they provide? I live in Canada and as soon as there is a department that is going to get funding cuts, they start picketing and threatening to go on strike. So keeping a job is priority #1. That type of public service will tend to acquire lower talent, and offer subpar service. I'd say private companies will always provide better service, because they need to compete for business.

Healthcare and education in the states is regulated, plus the government provides access to huge amounts of debt. It is the government that enables colleges and universities to basically require you to take out a mortgage for your education. If students couldn't access that type of debt, prices would have to fall as a result, as the non affluent population wouldn't be able to afford it.

LOL! The lamiest argument ever!!! "It's not the fault of private companies if they set the price 1000 times too high it's because the government allows so" xD
So it means government should regulate everything? That's communism for you!

And what you say about public services is stupid. Why chose? Why not both?
Their should be a national public service for everything that is remotely needed by people (energies, banks, food...) but that doesn't mean there shouldn't be place for private companies. I'd love to see an example of a better private companies than a public one because the argument of "private companies will always provide better service, because they need to compete for business." is completely stupid and USA is here for proof.

But whatever, if that's true then you'll have both public AND private, what's the problem at having both? If private is so good then public will go down.

gondes21

full member

Activity: 124

Merit: 100

Tax is about funding community.
If tax is efficiently and meet the need then, there is no problem. Means tax is balance.
However, if tax is used for unimportant thing and even misused, then there is the problem.
You need other people to live. So, don't be greedy.

riorondon1234

newbie

Activity: 26

Merit: 0

................ solution found by me ..............:
Private will compete and render services with more talented and completed effects!.
Public (social-state-national) will stall and give minimum required services to citizens!.
Provident (divine providence in experience fund with a zillion dollars) will complement to!.
................................
Paid to live! Fulcrum salary of $10K/y for each individual born! All taxes paid in advance on 01.01. of a year!
.................................
I think we can control inflation!. If it goes up then we press it down! And Vice Versa!.
If, say, an institution can not do something, that could be done by the charismation!.
We can unite the world (mainly) in 4D: Disaster, Domination, Dialog and Divination!.
For last 20 years I am developing a paradigm: "Divine Universalism"! Are we ready?.
.....................................
Muslim Islam, Christian Capitalism, Communist Socialism, Divine Universalism .... !?!

freeyourmind

sr. member

Activity: 364

Merit: 252

Quote from: mainpmf on May 10, 2017, 02:37:00 AM

It is true that the State can't do anything if the people don't want to.
But the state isn't just "paperwork"
The state is the common ground of people. It's what they all more or less agree on.

And I don't see anything wrong with taxes, how do you expect to pay for public services without them? Every "private" service has been proven being objectively worse and more expensive... Look at USA healthcare and education, twice as expensive as French one and largelely worse.

What I think is wrong is that we're not deciding what get expended where. That's wrong I agree

"Public service" isn't always what it seems. For example, if the public no longer wants a particular service and would rather not fund it, would those public servants gladly get laid off? Or would they value their own personal job and income over the service they provide? I live in Canada and as soon as there is a department that is going to get funding cuts, they start picketing and threatening to go on strike. So keeping a job is priority #1. That type of public service will tend to acquire lower talent, and offer subpar service. I'd say private companies will always provide better service, because they need to compete for business.

Healthcare and education in the states is regulated, plus the government provides access to huge amounts of debt. It is the government that enables colleges and universities to basically require you to take out a mortgage for your education. If students couldn't access that type of debt, prices would have to fall as a result, as the non affluent population wouldn't be able to afford it.

riorondon1234

newbie

Activity: 26

Merit: 0

i think we have to get back to terms with our human common sense ... we were buying time for a long time ...
we can talk of various traditions and tribes .... usa sa sa su chi jap eu etc .... but tax is traditions product and was a source of money for rulers
tax is say positive but taxation is a negative activity ... so, we can stay at taxes but to pay it from a new source of money - divine providence fund
so that we eliminate taxations which is based on taking taxes from working and other people ... we are resilient and resourceful ...
we can not pretend that divine is national category, it is universal one ... our god has a zillion and we die of hunger and poverty ...
haha .... i remember, i was in hospital, operated appendicitis, and they gave me infusion, not any food, so i cried: "MY FATHER HAS 20 COWS AND I AM HERE STARVING FROM HUNGER" .... haha .. what life can bring us all .... after few days my mother had brought me a soup (illegally) .. i was surprised .. nhhh

Forester618

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Quote from: Sithara007 on May 10, 2017, 04:33:10 AM

Quote from: Magpieguy on May 10, 2017, 04:14:04 AM

If you want to live in a civilised country with the benefits that come with it, then there is no alternative to tax.
That is the price you pay.
So, no its not theft.

There are a lot of "civilized" countries with zero income tax, such as the United Arab Emirates and Kuwait. That said, I agree that it will be hard for normal countries to abolish the taxes, as they don't have any other source of revenue. But I would prefer less taxes and lower government spending.

Two countries in the world is a lot? The United Arab Emirates has thus become the center of world trade. They have enough money from oil to afford the luxury as the abolition of taxes and duties. I think this system is rather an exception to the rule. Taxes should be, but the cost should be strictly controlled. We do not see because all of the government abuse of our money.

mainpmf

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Activity: 448

Merit: 250

Quote from: Sithara007 on May 10, 2017, 04:33:10 AM

Quote from: Magpieguy on May 10, 2017, 04:14:04 AM

If you want to live in a civilised country with the benefits that come with it, then there is no alternative to tax.
That is the price you pay.
So, no its not theft.

There are a lot of "civilized" countries with zero income tax, such as the United Arab Emirates and Kuwait. That said, I agree that it will be hard for normal countries to abolish the taxes, as they don't have any other source of revenue. But I would prefer less taxes and lower government spending.

First time I see you qualifying UAE as a civilized country xD

I'll quote you for next time you say they're barbarians.

Sithara007

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Activity: 3346

Merit: 1352

Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

Quote from: Magpieguy on May 10, 2017, 04:14:04 AM

If you want to live in a civilised country with the benefits that come with it, then there is no alternative to tax.
That is the price you pay.
So, no its not theft.

There are a lot of "civilized" countries with zero income tax, such as the United Arab Emirates and Kuwait. That said, I agree that it will be hard for normal countries to abolish the taxes, as they don't have any other source of revenue. But I would prefer less taxes and lower government spending.

Magpieguy

newbie

Activity: 25

Merit: 0

If you want to live in a civilised country with the benefits that come with it, then there is no alternative to tax.
That is the price you pay.
So, no its not theft.

mainpmf

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 250

Quote from: BADecker on May 09, 2017, 03:16:15 PM

In order to start taxation change, you have to realize that governments do not tax their people. A government is simply paperwork. That is why a government is referred to as a state. The state is simply a state of mind that has been written on paper. Paper can't do anything. It can't jump up and down. It can't drive a car. It is always people doing things.

Taxation is merely people forcing other people to give their property over to them.

Once you get this through your head, that taxation is people forcing other people to hand over their property, only then will you have a clear enough view of things to start to figure out how to change laws so that there is no taxation.

Cool

It is true that the State can't do anything if the people don't want to.
But the state isn't just "paperwork"
The state is the common ground of people. It's what they all more or less agree on.

And I don't see anything wrong with taxes, how do you expect to pay for public services without them? Every "private" service has been proven being objectively worse and more expensive... Look at USA healthcare and education, twice as expensive as French one and largelely worse.

What I think is wrong is that we're not deciding what get expended where. That's wrong I agree

PeterTheGrape

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Activity: 462

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Quote from: BADecker on May 09, 2017, 08:58:32 PM

...

Taxation is dropping. People are finding ways around it, and even through it. The exchanges would be used less, or they would go underground.

Cool

Taxes are meant to fund services, it should not be a competition to not have service.

The problem is that some people who are basically unemployable in the private sector get government jobs and their drug is power. They turn 'funding government into a law enforcement issue and proceed to do what the rest of law enforcement usually does, i.e., create criminals rather than limit crimes.

If you want to dig a one foot deep hole you need exactly one person and one shovel. If you hire 5 people to do the job then you aren't going to get a better hole dug. And if you start hiring tens of thousands of people to dig the little hole eventually you are going to find that tens of thousands of people are not enough. Taxes do not have to be a complicated clusterfuck.

BADecker

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Quote from: Sithara007 on May 09, 2017, 08:32:18 PM

Quote from: BADecker on May 09, 2017, 07:50:16 AM

People are already trading bitcoins for other property as a means of exchange just like money. Why would you need other money when Bitcoin is worldwide?

Cool

If the usage crosses certain limits, then the government will start taxing the exchanges and other avenues where the Bitcoins are being spent. The tax net is everywhere. It is not just possible to avoid it.

Taxation is dropping. People are finding ways around it, and even through it. The exchanges would be used less, or they would go underground.

Cool

Sithara007

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Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

Quote from: BADecker on May 09, 2017, 07:50:16 AM

People are already trading bitcoins for other property as a means of exchange just like money. Why would you need other money when Bitcoin is worldwide?

Cool

If the usage crosses certain limits, then the government will start taxing the exchanges and other avenues where the Bitcoins are being spent. The tax net is everywhere. It is not just possible to avoid it.

gracia0023

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Quote from: miki77miki on December 28, 2016, 07:24:52 PM

Personally, I do feel it is theft, I never consented to any taxation. I feel that this video helps explain the video quite well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGMQZEIXBMs

In the past years, taxation is already existing. Even in the bible. There's a situation where Jesus said, "Give to Ceasar what is for Ceasar". This means that taxation is our responsibility as an individual. What makes taxation worst is the system being done by the government. Some officials are corrupt, they are not using it properly. Some of them uses the tax of people for their own interest. That's why most of us, think of taxation as theft.

riorondon1234

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Quote from: youdamushi on May 09, 2017, 07:17:49 AM

Quote from: Forester618 on May 09, 2017, 07:07:43 AM

Quote from: craked5 on May 09, 2017, 07:02:07 AM

Quote from: kirch on May 09, 2017, 06:00:48 AM

taxing is robbing the honest and paying the poor
rich and dishonest people always getaway with taxes

In there current form that's quite true...
But a very simple idea could be taxation of salaries at the source and then taxation of companies on the turnover and not on the net result.

That would be simple and unavoidable.

The government take taxes on all the paths of circulation of money. First you pay the payroll tax, then you pay the tax on any purchase. It turns out that we always pay about 50% of their income in tax. I consider it stealing.

I don't know where you're from but 50% is high.

You can't consider it stealing if in exchange you get free education, healthcare and all...

Tax is a traditional thing. USA liberated itself by fighting taxes and tariffs! When i was calculating taxes of the world for my purposes, it was 37% for national economies gdps .... ! Cryptos can not do anything against fiats domination, our chance is only in divine intervention! "fiat < crypto> divine"!
How? .... Inception of a secular god in this civillization and attribute him a zillion dollars in divine providence in experience fund and pay all taxes to liberate people again, this time universally rather than nationally. Our Gdp is about $70T. Taxes 37% of it to be paid to every and each economy on 01.01. of the year ...!

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