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Topic: Meanwhile in Ukraine... Revolution. - page 55. (Read 227070 times)

legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1014
April 30, 2014, 03:36:08 AM
And some news as a separate post:

US are seeking to back away from the sanctions in their round-about way. They list conditions on dropping sanctions against individuals in Russia:
http://itar-tass.com/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/1157668?utm_medium=rss20
They again talk about "de-escalation of situation in Ukraine"

Russian Ministry of Foreign affairs already replied that Russia does not accept the language of ultimatums

But it seems sanctions are having a positive effect. The offshore Bermuda branch of Sberbank decided to close down and pull its capitals back into Russia.  Grin
http://lenta.ru/news/2014/04/30/sber/

Microsoft and other IT companies joined the anti-Russian campaign:
http://www.gazeta.ru/business/news/2014/04/30/n_6119681.shtml

Putin: Washington behind Ukraine events all along, though flying low
http://rt.com/news/155732-putin-usa-behind-ukraine-crisis/

Quote
“I think what is happening now shows us who really was mastering the process from the beginning. But in the beginning, the United States preferred to remain in the shadow,” Putin said, as quoted by RIA Novosti.

And on the topic of sanctions:

Quote
"We would very much wish not to resort to any measures in response," he told reporters. "But if something like that continues, we will of course have to think about who is working in the key sectors of the Russian economy, including the energy sector, and how.”

Quote
"Regarding the second package, it's not clear at all what this is linked to, because there is no cause and effect link with what is happening now in Ukraine and Russia," Putin said.

And a fun little sidenote. We all remember how Kerry depicted RT as "propaganda bullhorn":
http://rt.com/news/154760-kerry-attacks-rt-propaganda/

And now US passes new legislation with regard to Voice of America to actually make that channel to comply to the US foreign policy:
http://rt.com/usa/155760-voice-america-reform-support/

Quote
"This legislation makes clear that the Voice of America mission is to support U.S. public diplomacy efforts," a summary of the new bill outlines. "The VOA charter states that VOA will provide a ‘clear and effective presentation of the policies of the United States...Over time, VOA has abandoned this mission."

...

In 1976, President Gerald Ford signed into law VOA’s mission as an "accurate, objective, and comprehensive" news outlet as opposed to an explicit propagandistic venture.

Since then, “employees at the TV and radio broadcaster have insisted on viewing themselves as objective journalists as opposed to instruments” of the US government’s policies abroad, wrote Foreign Policy. And since, on occasion, VOA has highlighted stories that did not reflect well on the United States, US officials have wondered why hundreds of millions of dollars is spent on a project that does not have a more pro-American outlook.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1014
April 30, 2014, 03:30:28 AM
Most of America speaks English. That obviously means that Great Britain has the right to march in its armies and take America back  Roll Eyes

This is kind of what I was talking about btw: http://oleg-leusenko.livejournal.com/1361141.html

Rassah, your argument is weak, and was already covered before, but I will indulge you.

Yes, Great Britain could actually claim US back, as US proclaimed its independence with the breach of the then international law. Interestingly, Crimea, Donetsk and Lugansk now proclaim their independence in much the same fashion as US did back then, but this time these regions are legally backed by the UN charter on self-determination of peoples.

The situation that you should be comparing to, is Northern Ireland wanting to break away from UK and reunite with Ireland (based on language and religion), in much the same way Crimea broke away from the artificial fiefdom of Ukraine and rejoined Russia, where it was since 1700s. The only difference that appals EU, is that in Crimea there was no bloodshed.
legendary
Activity: 3752
Merit: 1217
April 30, 2014, 01:03:38 AM
Hardly anyone speaks french in Canada... and yet french is an official language!
I haven't read the entire thread, but I'm pretty sure it's all politics.   Undecided

Around 25% of the Canadian population speaks French and that is why it is an official language. Now what would you say about the situation of Russian language in Ukraine, which is banned in the public sphere despite being used as a home language by some 60% of the population?
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035
April 29, 2014, 11:18:29 PM
Most of America speaks English. That obviously means that Great Britain has the right to march in its armies and take America back  Roll Eyes


This is kind of what I was talking about btw: http://oleg-leusenko.livejournal.com/1361141.html
Vod
legendary
Activity: 3668
Merit: 3010
Licking my boob since 1970
April 29, 2014, 10:57:59 PM
Hardly anyone speaks Ukrainian in Crimea... and yet Russian was not an official language? Also, there are 5 times as many Russian speakers as there are Ukrainian speakers in Nikolaev.  Sad

Hardly anyone speaks french in Canada... and yet french is an official language!

I haven't read the entire thread, but I'm pretty sure it's all politics.   Undecided
legendary
Activity: 3752
Merit: 1217
April 29, 2014, 10:48:36 PM
Looks like Kiev? Someone does not want that this whole thing gets filmed. They talk Ukrainian.
The guy said, explaining that those are not mercinaries but the self-defence of Maidan.

They are making a corridor so that the Ukrainian patriots of Right Sector might come though.

You're observing Maidan.

OK... I saw the Right Sector flag as well. That was a Right Sector demonstration.  Angry

http://rt.com/news/155748-rally-kiev-massive-fight
sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 250
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1014
April 29, 2014, 02:40:20 PM
Can anyone tell me what is going on here:

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/live-action-spilno-tv

Looks like Kiev? Someone does not want that this whole thing gets filmed. They talk Ukrainian.
The guy said, explaining that those are not mercinaries but the self-defence of Maidan.

They are making a corridor so that the Ukrainian patriots of Right Sector might come though.

You're observing Maidan.
legendary
Activity: 3752
Merit: 1217
April 29, 2014, 02:28:14 PM
Can anyone tell me what is going on here:

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/live-action-spilno-tv

Meanwhile, Turchynov is whining.

Quote
Interim President Olexander Turchynov criticised local police for their "inaction" and "criminal treachery".
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1014
April 29, 2014, 02:12:47 PM
Kerry told about spying on telephone conversations of Russians in Eastern Ukraine:
http://itar-tass.com/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/1156833?utm_medium=rss20

Even though I would not be surprised if Russia had some advisors/observers in Ukraine, it's the case of teapot calling a kettle - CIA has a whole floor in Kiev to themselves!

He uses quite a lot of harsh words there, but among them I did not see a single reference to hard proof.



USA will return Yanukovich's money to Ukraine:
http://itar-tass.com/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/1156916?utm_medium=rss20
"It'll be a lengthy process and will require cooperation of all countries around the globe", said Holder.

I wonder how Yanukovich managed to transport 32 billion dollars, which equates to about 320 tonnes or a whole trainload of money out of Ukraine, when he fled from being murdered in Ukraine.

And will US return the Ukrainian gold reserve?

And will US demand that Yatsenjuk return Russian Scythian gold?



Former ambassador of US in Russia complained that Putin did not love him, and even confessed it to him personally a couple of times:
http://ria.ru/world/20140429/1005965888.html



And here is something bordering on tragic absurdity:
http://ria.ru/world/20140429/1005948110.html

Ukraine refused to participate in France in memorial event, commemorating victims of Chernobyl disaster.

Well, with the recent US-supplied incompatible nuclear fuel for the Ukrainian nuclear plants, the whole of Ukraine will be one big Chernobyl.  Undecided
legendary
Activity: 3752
Merit: 1217
April 29, 2014, 01:54:27 PM
The town of Nikolaev gave Russian official status on the town level (blue flag).

Not enough. 60% of the population lives in the countryside and the vast majority of them uses Russian as a home language. The refusal to grant Russian the official status might have caused quite a lot of hardship there.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1014
April 29, 2014, 01:35:59 PM
Darth Vader wishes to become the mayor of Kiev:
http://www.interfax.ru/world/374346
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1014
April 29, 2014, 01:05:43 PM
Hardly anyone speaks Ukrainian in Crimea... and yet Russian was not an official language? Also, there are 5 times as many Russian speakers as there are Ukrainian speakers in Nikolaev.  Sad

The town of Nikolaev gave Russian official status on the town level (blue flag).
sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 250
legendary
Activity: 3752
Merit: 1217
April 29, 2014, 11:35:42 AM
Or this map, showing which regions had Russian as an official regional language, in blue (note Crimea and the dissonance with the map above!)

Hardly anyone speaks Ukrainian in Crimea... and yet Russian was not an official language? Also, there are 5 times as many Russian speakers as there are Ukrainian speakers in Nikolaev.  Sad
full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100
April 29, 2014, 10:38:11 AM
Both of these are useful, thanks. I think a map showing the areas where protestors/activists are controlling areas and/or seizing buildings, compared with a map showing where the "unidentified" militant forces are present, compared to where there have been violent events, would paint a pretty telling picture of just how organized and connected the strife is. In other words, we could get a better sense of whether this is a natural decay or the result of state actors pulling strings and organizing discontent.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1014
April 29, 2014, 10:24:50 AM
While searching for a map, I came across the following blog from last year, showing maps of Ukraine, and its division along linguistic, political, industrial lines. The maps are a bit old, but telling.

http://yablor.ru/blogs/dve-ukraini/3638493

For example this map shows the language of the registered users in the social network VKontakte (aka Facebook). Ukrainan tends towards red, Russian tends towards blue.


Or this map, showing which regions had Russian as an official regional language, in blue (note Crimea and the dissonance with the map above!)


Or, the percentage of people naming Russian as their mother tongue per 2001 (Sevastopol: 90%, Kiev: 30%):


And a curiosity map. Where statues of Lenin dominate (yellow means "none", blue means "a few"):
legendary
Activity: 3752
Merit: 1217
April 29, 2014, 09:31:03 AM
There is a 3-day old map here:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.6402626
Balthazar, where did you find it, is there an updated version?

That is a map showing locations where anti-Kiev protests / demonstrations have taken place. It does not differentiate between areas currently under the control of federalists and those under the Kiev junta.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1014
April 29, 2014, 09:10:32 AM
Has anyone done a decent map of Ukraine showing the regions controlled by Kiev, Russia, "unidentified forces," and "activists" or something along those lines? At this point a visual aid would be useful to keep track of all these different regions in flux.

There is a 3-day old map here:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.6402626
Balthazar, where did you find it, is there an updated version?
legendary
Activity: 3108
Merit: 1359
April 29, 2014, 09:10:28 AM
Situation is unstable, so any map quickly becomes obsolete. But things will change if new republics will merge into the common anti-Kiev front. I suppose that it's only a matter of time when it will happen.
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