Topic: Meanwhile in Ukraine... Revolution. - page 64. (Read 227096 times)

De-Escalation Off: US Deploys Troops To Poland


So what part of “All sides must refrain from any violence, intimidation or provocative actions,” did the US not understand when they decided that deploying troops to Poland was in keeping with the four-party deal? As WaPo reports, Poland and the United States will announce next week the deployment of U.S. ground forces to Poland as part of an expansion of NATO presence in Central and Eastern Europe in response to events in Ukraine.

Polish minister: U.S. troops are being deployed to Poland. http://t.co/42sifm1GsK

— Washington Post (@washingtonpost) April 18, 2014

Via The Washington Post

Poland and the United States will announce next week the deployment of U.S. ground forces to Poland as part of an expansion of NATO presence in Central and Eastern Europe in response to events in Ukraine.

That was the word from Poland’s defense minister, Tomasz Siemoniak, who visited The Post Friday after meeting with Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel at the Pentagon on Thursday.

Siemoniak said the decision has been made on a political level and that military planners are working out details.

There will also be intensified cooperation in air defense, special forces, cyberdefense and other areas. Poland will play a leading regional role, “under U.S. patronage,” he said.

So is that an escalation? or a de-escalation? or is it different when the US moves troops towards another nation’s borders?

As a reminder, we noted in December, Russia’s placement of tactical nuclear-capable weapons near the Polish border which at the time sent a very clear message of escalation (despite the, at the time, lack of New Cold War headlines). We wrote at the time,

Russia quietly has come through on its threat issued in April 2012, when it warned it would deploy Iskander missiles that could target US missile defense systems in Poland. From RIA at the time:

Moscow reiterated on Tuesday it may deploy Iskander theater ballistic missiles in the Baltic exclave of Kaliningrad that will be capable of effectively engaging elements of the U.S. missile defense system in Poland.

NATO members agreed to create a missile shield over Europe to protect it against ballistic missiles launched by so-called rogue states, for example Iran and North Korea, at a summit in Lisbon, Portugal, in 2010.

The missile defense system in Poland does not jeopardize Russia’s nuclear forces, Army General Nikolai Makarov, chief of the General Staff of the Russian Armed Forces, said.

“However, if it is modernized…it could affect our nuclear capability and in that case a political decision may be made to deploy Iskander systems in the Kaliningrad region,” he said in an interview with RT television.

“But that will be a political decision,” he stressed. “So far there is no such need.”

Looks like a little over a year later, the “political decision” was taken as the need is there. But why does Russia need to send a very clear message of escalation at a time when the Cold War is long over, when globalization and free trade, promote game theoretic world peace (or “piece” as the Obama administration wouldsay), oh, and when Russia quietly has decided to reestablish the former USSR starting with the Ukraine.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-04-18/de-escalation-us-deploys-troops-poland

AndriusCep

Lol, and you are talking about propaganda?   Please don't say such ridiculous things, because somebody can die from laughter.

Are you sure?

Lenin - half-german, half-jewish
Trotsky - jewish
Zinoviev - jewish
Kamenev - jewish

Stalin - Georgian
Khruschev - Ukrainian
Brezhnev - Ukrainian

They have elected them just like ukrainians have elected Turchinov, Yatsenyuk, Svoboda and the Right Sector.

When on the background of the 1930s events somebody from the Baltic states says about an "occupation"/wrong choice of Russian people/whatever, I want to say him some strong words. Seriously, don't be so naive. Ask somebody in Russia to tell about this "agreement". Try to ask them what happened in 1931-1933 and 1937, I suppose they have more than enough strong words to answer.

Idiots from Sejm are saying what occupation was started in 1944. They're not talking about association.

It doesn't matter, even if elections was a total fake (which would be a propaganda too). The only thing matters is what occupation of own territory is impossible. LSSR was a part of USSR in 1944. And it was internationally recognized as a part of USSR.

Yes, accession of the Baltic states to the Soviet Union didn't violate international law as of 1940, and the entry of these countries into the Soviet Union received an official international recognition. This position is based on the de facto recognition of the integrity of the borders of the USSR in June 1941 at the Yalta and Potsdam conferences of participating States as well as recognition of the inviolability of European borders participants at the Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe in 1975. So, any usage of "occupation" term would be wrong and incredible stupid by definition. Occupation of internationally recognized part of itself is a total nonsense, deal with it. By the way, a decision on criminalizing the denial of "Soviet occupation" indicates the fear. Lithuanian government is afraid of the discussion on this topic, and that's not surprising.

I believe that you believe it. However, faith alone isn't enough to change anything. Let's take a closer look at the essence of your sentence.



What do you think about a conception of "non-citizens"? Nowhere in the world you can see anything like this, nowhere except the "freedom loving" Baltic states. That's the reason why I recognize all your politicians as hypocrites, liars and criminals. They're talking about democracy and human rights while having nothing against violation of them in their own jurisdiction. The same is correct for anybody who participated in the elections, or have paid any taxes in favor of such government. Don't take it personally, I know that you have no real choice because of totalitarian system, but it's the order of things. If you are supporting a group of hypocrites then you are hypocrite too.

All this hypocrisy, misanthropic ideology of the government are the reasons why Lithuanian, Estonian and Latvian nations are dying. You can consider this as a result of short-sightedness and stupidity or God's punishment for hypocrisy, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter because since the collapse of the USSR there wasn't a single year ended with positive population growth.

So, even the North Korea it's a more preferable option for me. They're not hypocrites, they don't have "non-citizens" at least. This is the reason why I'll never visit any Baltic country and never buy any goods from the Baltic suppliers. And I assure you that the most of self-respecting Russian and Ukrainian people think the same way. But I believe that there are also a "normal" or "good" people, who thinks that violation of human rights is a good thing. We can't respect anyone who kills own people under veil of "freedom" and "human rights".

P.S. I assure you that if an Estonian version of the maidan will be started by "non-citizens" then I'll support this movement using all available material resources, and I'll advise all my friends to do the same. The time will come eventually, and the regime will pay a heavy price for everything.

If Tymoshenko can be bought, so can be Klitschko. The advantage Tymoshenko has is that she is tried and tested, while Klitschko is a little bit unpredictable. Klitschko is pro-EU, but he is not much pro-US. On the other hand, Tymoshenko is both pro-EU and pro-US.

first of all -> dont get me wrong, I dont have anything against current (or any normal russian) Russia generation, they have nothing about all that things, I know, have some good Russian friends, and new generation is good for sure

Whats about Lithuanian SSR and RSFSR asociation, that they were "same". What nation designed SSRS? Answer is Russians, - Russian people elected communists, communists with Stalin (as I know Lenin before his death said that he will never want Stalin as SSRS leader) decided to "rule the world" and to make "communist dream", Russia nation agreed with that and then occupied all that countries with pretexts like you say "Lithuanian Communist party have won elections" - this is PROPOGANDA, we had our goverment with Smetona and Russia - SSRS made ultimatum, to join them easy or hard way, theres was no way back, even Molotov - Ribentrop pact prooves that So this is bullshit what you say - its common Russian propoganda.

I wouldn't say loyal, maybe easily bought. They know from the past that she can change her mind for the right price.

Klitschko does have a lot of support, around 20% of the population, mainly in Central Ukraine. But he has no understanding of economy or foreign affairs and if he becomes the Ukrainian president, then it will a disaster for the Ukrainian people. But I disagree that the German media is behind him. The EU / US media is propping up the name of Yulia Tymoshenko, as she is more loyal to the NATO than anyone else.   

Haha  , that's Klitschko right next to him. Here in good old Germany the press is trying to convince us that he should become the next president - a snap shot like this would never appear in a German newspaper...

Who cares about this idiot? Zhirinovsky is not a honest politician. He is all talk and no action. Remember, he was the one who supported the banning of Rodina Party in 2005.

Ahaha I lol'd... I definetely can't translate anything right now  

He said, that an entire maidan movement it's a result of sexual frustration. He also said that these ladies are prone to furiousness of the uterus and then demanded guys to provide them some proper attention using a slightly violent way ("You have to rape her immediately! Christ is risen! Christ is risen! Christ is risen! Rape her!"). Later he said that pregnant persons are not allowed here because it's dangerous for a child, and "suggested" pregnant reporter to leave the room ( "Pregnant woman should stay at home and take care of the child, country needs a healthly population. Get out of there, I said get the fuck out of there!").

// Times change while Zhirinovsky remains the same.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31qzlxwzAo4

Can someone translate what he is actually saying? 

Exactly. If some Latvian was saying that his country was occupied by the USSR, then it was still believable. But Lithuanians, OMG!

Lithuanians were one of the ethnic groups who most actively supported the Soviet Communist party. And as an ethnic group, they benefited enormously from it. Off course, several tens of thousands fell victim to gulags and all that, but the proportion was much less when compared to the Latvians or Estonians (or even to the Russians).

The ethnic Lithuanian population grew much faster when compared to the ethnic Russian population during the Soviet rule. Remember that the Latvian population declined.

I think it's more about what is best for Ukraine. To me, it sure seems like Russia has been trying to strong-arm them into being part of Russia's sphere of influence, doing business primarily with Russia, obeying them, etc etc. The general Ukrainian public seems to prefer to try associating more with Europe and less with Russia, and this seems to have been the catalyst that caused the whole mess.

Should a country be bullied like this? I think not. I'm not denying that other states may be trying to influence events to lean in their favor but come on, every country does that and certainly Russia does that.

The whole idea of "oh but they held a vote and the people of region X or Y said they want to be integrated with Russia" is absurd. It's like gee, there's a massive army in their backyard, that their own military has no hope of repelling. Shall they say GTFO to Russia or shall they tell Russia that they'd love for them to stay?

+1

It's not about who is good, it's about who is the least bad. Every country have it's interests, even Lithuania has a horse in this one.
It is dumb to "feel bad things to Russia" because it was the communist USSR which fucked our little country over, not RF or it's current citizens.
Also RF feeds our little countries buying our stuff, while US only feeds our politicians secretly. EU also feeds our countries now, but it's a very complicated money lending system.

I hate the "high moral ground" of US based news outlets, which is then forced onto our news as well.
 If you open up Lithuanian or Latvian delfi, and read some news, your up for some fun time.

NATO tried to install puppet regime in the Crimea, had a hope to get a place for some democratic military bases here. They've failed and got a butthurt, that's why RF is bad now.

Lithuanian Communist party have won elections and then sent a request to join USSR in 1939. Seriously, I'm dying of laugh when I hear Seym's statements about the occupation in 1944 and these "90% of Lithuanians". Perhaps the elections weren't an ideal of democracy... But it's still not clear how the USSR could occupy a Republic, which had already been its part for more than 5 years.

Lithuanian SSR was a part of USSR just like RSFSR (today it's called Russian Federation), if it was occupied then RSFSR was occupied too. You can also say something like "Vilnius was occupied by Lithuanian Republic", but I think that you understand what it's a senseless statement.  

Read the books and always make your own judgement, don't listen any politicans ever. They are lying always, because the politician is synonymous with liar, the same is correct for lawyers.
If you're good liar then you will be a good politician/lawyer and vice versa.

havent read all the topic or other topics in this forum about Ukraine/Russia/USA but I want to tell my opinion whats happening there.
Im not Russia lover (I even maybe hate it a little bit as Lithuania, my country was ocupated in SSRS times and 90% of Lithuanians feel bad things to Russia) but in this case I cant be against it.
Why USA is always right? Why EU is always right? Maybe Russia is not some kind of holy country but its country, and biggest country in the world, which have right to have it own opinion/interests about all things happening in world. Russia took Cryme, where something like 90% livers are full native Russians, who love Russia and want Russia to take care of them (as I know Cryme was independend, something like state, from central goverment). So why Russia is bad now? Why world is quiet when USA takes middle east countries treasures? Maybe that countries is not super democracy or something but they dont have right to do sucha things like they do, but in fact they do that, I think they shouldnt have any word about Russia-Cryme business.

Official resolution voted and adopted by the European Parliament -> http://www.europarl.europa.eu/oeil/popups/summary.do?id=1239823&t=d&l=en


and we have not even talked about Right Sector. :1orglaugh

Ukraine's new fascist government:

Vice Prime Minister - Oleksandr Sych - Svoboda member
Minister of Education and Science - Serhiy Kvit -  Stepan Bandera All-Ukrainian Organization member
Minister of Defense - Ihor Tenyukh - Svoboda member (resigned)
Minister of Agrarian Policy and Food - Ihor Shvaika - Svoboda member
Minister of Ecology and Natural Resources of Ukraine - Andriy Mokhnyk - Svoboda member

Lies, propaganda... revolution almost every year :1orglaugh These are the reasons why we Europeans don't like the Ukrainians.

Tanks driven by Right Sector nazis and Blackwater mercenaries trying to kill civilians who were protesting against them. Nothing new in this. This is happening every day, supported by the NATO. BTW... that lady was really courageous.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8K3Qa750ZEI