Motosport General discussion tread --- Formula1, MotoGP, WTCC, ETCC, DTM..... - page 187.

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Quote from: alegotardo on November 23, 2022, 07:54:26 PM

I think Ricciardo has some hope of becoming second driver there, or maybe even that is a definite plan that we just don't know about yet.
Ricciardo knew he would never have a chance of being champion alongside Verstappen, so he left the team for Renault in 2019 where he stayed for two years before switching to McLaren in 2021. While at Renault he had difficulties at first, but he managed to get by. recover, the same did not happen at McLaren. Not getting along with the car, Ricciardo had his last year of contract canceled and ended up getting worse.
I think that's why he preferred to go back to the house where he feels more confident and try to build his career there again.

I feel like he probably won't be. Let’s remember that Daniel Ricciardio is older than Perez, which means Red Bull would be looking to hire someone that would be younger, and can race with Max all his career hopefully, someone around 20-23 years old when they hire the new driver.

I understand Perez cannot be with Max for another 10 years, which means they need to hire someone younger. Daniel is not that person, he has that "hope" and I get that, and they wanted a reserve driver that would be good too, and that’s why they hired him, but it’s just not that easy of a situation. It cannot be just Perez leaves and Dany starts racing, that would only be good for like 1-2 seasons at best.

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Quote from: alegotardo on November 23, 2022, 07:54:26 PM

I think Ricciardo has some hope of becoming second driver there, or maybe even that is a definite plan that we just don't know about yet.
Ricciardo knew he would never have a chance of being champion alongside Verstappen, so he left the team for Renault in 2019 where he stayed for two years before switching to McLaren in 2021. While at Renault he had difficulties at first, but he managed to get by. recover, the same did not happen at McLaren. Not getting along with the car, Ricciardo had his last year of contract canceled and ended up getting worse.
I think that's why he preferred to go back to the house where he feels more confident and try to build his career there again.

Apparently Verstappen doesn't want Perez as a teammate anymore, Verstappen preferred the newly hired Riccardo. Actually, I find this step by Verstappen as quite cheeky, without Perez and Masi he would in no way world champion last year, as a team manager I would consider Verstappen once again to bring down to earth reality, he still drives for RedBull and not RedBull for him.

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Quote from: blue Snow on November 23, 2022, 09:25:51 PM

Besides a lot of money, Ducati has a lot of achievements in 2022 so make any rider interested to join, Bastianini is one of them. He will be a partner with Pecco to replace Miller. about the constructor, we are not surprised, Ducati is quite stable depending it in 3 years, They got the title 3 times in a row, so we not have to worry if next year they will be dominated again and still more progressive than other companies like Yamaha and Honda.

The joining of Bastianini to the factory Ducati next season is based on a contract from the Ducati party because Bastianini has given very good performances on the Ducati satellite motorbikes through two different independent teams. First in the Esponsorama Racing team and this year in the Gresini Racing team so that the factory Ducati began to be interested in Bastianini and immediately submitted his contract for the factory Ducati team next season because on the other hand Jack Miller himself had also expired his contract with the factory Ducati so Bastianini became the best option for factory Ducati to bring him on contract.

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Quote from: Luzin on November 22, 2022, 10:33:14 AM

Regarding Ducati, I think they have a lot of money so they have 8 ducati riders. Their development is also amazing, they can break the dominance of Asian manufacturers. Eight drivers are an advantage their Ducati will be easier for the constructors' champion. I think that opportunity is huge next season.

Besides a lot of money, Ducati has a lot of achievements in 2022 so make any rider interested to join, Bastianini is one of them. He will be a partner with Pecco to replace Miller. about the constructor, we are not surprised, Ducati is quite stable depending it in 3 years, They got the title 3 times in a row, so we not have to worry if next year they will be dominated again and still more progressive than other companies like Yamaha and Honda.

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Quote from: LTU_btc on November 23, 2022, 07:06:52 PM

Ricciardo logic is very strange for me. He left Red Bull as he didn't wanted to be 2nd driver, as they preferred Verstappen. He also didn't wanted to reace for team which isn't very competetive, like Haas. And now he joins Red Bull just to be 3rd driver. I don't know what to think about it.
As much as I like Perez, he didn't reached his and team goal of seaon - end 2nd in driver's championship. It seems that he have more ambitions than to be back wing of Verstappen, but it's more than obvious that Red Bull won't let him to fight with Max for the title. You said very well that it's not good idea to have 2 lions in same cage. But for me it seems that sooner or later driver who have role just to help for leader, sooner or later become pissed off.

I think Ricciardo has some hope of becoming second driver there, or maybe even that is a definite plan that we just don't know about yet.
Ricciardo knew he would never have a chance of being champion alongside Verstappen, so he left the team for Renault in 2019 where he stayed for two years before switching to McLaren in 2021. While at Renault he had difficulties at first, but he managed to get by. recover, the same did not happen at McLaren. Not getting along with the car, Ricciardo had his last year of contract canceled and ended up getting worse.
I think that's why he preferred to go back to the house where he feels more confident and try to build his career there again.

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Quote from: coinlocket$ on November 23, 2022, 04:50:34 PM

Maybe he thinks he can beat Max.

Riccardo is a great driver, back in day he won many races on RBR, the problem is that I don't think RBR wants to have a competitive driver in a competitive car who can race against MAX.

Never put 2 lions in the same cage.

The history speaks for itself,

Rosberg-Hamilton 2016
Alonso-Hamilton 2007
Senna-Prost '90

Ricciardo logic is very strange for me. He left Red Bull as he didn't wanted to be 2nd driver, as they preferred Verstappen. He also didn't wanted to reace for team which isn't very competetive, like Haas. And now he joins Red Bull just to be 3rd driver. I don't know what to think about it.
As much as I like Perez, he didn't reached his and team goal of seaon - end 2nd in driver's championship. It seems that he have more ambitions than to be back wing of Verstappen, but it's more than obvious that Red Bull won't let him to fight with Max for the title. You said very well that it's not good idea to have 2 lions in same cage. But for me it seems that sooner or later driver who have role just to help for leader, sooner or later become pissed off.

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Quote from: swogerino on November 23, 2022, 11:07:21 AM

Maybe RIcciardo thinks that he is not dreaming anymore of getting world title and thus he may have promised Redbull that I will act as a second driver for the team when Perez leaves or is sacked as long as Verstappen is here and I will only fight for the title if Verstappen performs really badly which is highly unlikely.

I agree,the best option would have been Mercedes as once Hamilton would retire probably at the end of the next season or just a bit more because his age does not permit him anymore to have better reflexes than 20-26 years old talented drivers like Verstappen is and then Ricciardo could have tried one last time the fight for the title.

Maybe he thinks he can beat Max.

Riccardo is a great driver, back in day he won many races on RBR, the problem is that I don't think RBR wants to have a competitive driver in a competitive car who can race against MAX.

Never put 2 lions in the same cage.

The history speaks for itself,

Rosberg-Hamilton 2016
Alonso-Hamilton 2007
Senna-Prost '90

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Quote from: swogerino on November 23, 2022, 11:07:21 AM

Maybe RIcciardo thinks that he is not dreaming anymore of getting world title and thus he may have promised Redbull that I will act as a second driver for the team when Perez leaves or is sacked as long as Verstappen is here and I will only fight for the title if Verstappen performs really badly which is highly unlikely.

I agree,the best option would have been Mercedes as once Hamilton would retire probably at the end of the next season or just a bit more because his age does not permit him anymore to have better reflexes than 20-26 years old talented drivers like Verstappen is and then Ricciardo could have tried one last time the fight for the title.

I agree with your point of view.

Ricciardo is already 33 years old now. Of course this isn't a hindrance for any driver to be the world champion normally. However Ricciardo has started to seem like he doesn't have the same ambition for having solid races. We rarely see him fighting really hard in a race. It has been like this at McLaren at least. He was much more ambitious and successful than this at Renault before.

Of course even in this situation there is no guarantee that he wouldn't have the same issues with Verstappen again. Maybe we would be wrong and Ricciardo might start being more competitive again after having one of the fastest cars on the grid. The time will tell us about that.

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It has been a sad season for Russell. He showed how well he can drive in the last race, but for the rest of the season Mercedes was not in good shape with its management and car. Hamilton was also unable to prepare anything because of that and did not even win a single race. But at least they ended the season with value. If Mercedes has a reliable car next year, then they can certainly compete for the world championship. Hamilton will still remain the first driver at Mercedes, but you should not be surprised if it is mainly Russell who will compete with Verstappen for the world championship.

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Quote from: Koal-84 on November 23, 2022, 04:45:32 AM

Ducati has developed a lot over the last few years and not just relied on one rider like Yamaha and Honda. The Ducati used to be very difficult to ride, but unlike Honda they have found a middle way to make the Ducati competitive for several riders. And this development has paid off, maybe if Lorenzo had been allowed to stay longer with Ducati he would have won the riders' world championship title with Ducati too. Ducati has learned that a star rider is not everything to win a world championship. The overall package is now simply better than that of the competition.

They know talented drivers, they then maintain and continue to do research to be able to get to the present and be champions. They have potential riders so they keep doing research for the bike. They developed aerodynamics and were modeled by other plants. In addition, since they collaborated with Lenovo, it seems that they have the support of technology to always research with Remote Garage.

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Quote from: emrecemsan on November 23, 2022, 10:10:45 AM

Quote from: coinlocket$ on November 23, 2022, 09:02:35 AM

Daniel Riccardo is officially back at RBR as 3rd driver for the next season.

Source: https://twitter.com/redbullracing/status/1595401790169694211

Unexpected, does he aim at Perez's seat?

I really don't understand Ricciardo. I mean that he left Red Bull not to be the second driver there. He was having serious problems with Verstappen there as well. You must be remembering their silly accident in 2018 Azerbaijan Grand Prix too. Considering all of these things I just don't see any reason for him to return here as long as Verstappen is the main driver of the team. It is obvious that Verstappen will be permanent here for many more years. Ricciardo can take only Perez's place.

Instead he could have joined Mercedes as the third driver and it would have been more sensible for him. After Hamilton retires he would have made up a nice team with Russell there.

Maybe RIcciardo thinks that he is not dreaming anymore of getting world title and thus he may have promised Redbull that I will act as a second driver for the team when Perez leaves or is sacked as long as Verstappen is here and I will only fight for the title if Verstappen performs really badly which is highly unlikely.

I agree,the best option would have been Mercedes as once Hamilton would retire probably at the end of the next season or just a bit more because his age does not permit him anymore to have better reflexes than 20-26 years old talented drivers like Verstappen is and then Ricciardo could have tried one last time the fight for the title.

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Quote from: coinlocket$ on November 23, 2022, 09:02:35 AM

Daniel Riccardo is officially back at RBR as 3rd driver for the next season.

Source: https://twitter.com/redbullracing/status/1595401790169694211

Unexpected, does he aim at Perez's seat?

I really don't understand Ricciardo. I mean that he left Red Bull not to be the second driver there. He was having serious problems with Verstappen there as well. You must be remembering their silly accident in 2018 Azerbaijan Grand Prix too. Considering all of these things I just don't see any reason for him to return here as long as Verstappen is the main driver of the team. It is obvious that Verstappen will be permanent here for many more years. Ricciardo can take only Perez's place.

Instead he could have joined Mercedes as the third driver and it would have been more sensible for him. After Hamilton retires he would have made up a nice team with Russell there.

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Quote from: coinlocket$ on November 23, 2022, 09:02:35 AM

Daniel Riccardo is officially back at RBR as 3rd driver for the next season.

Source: https://twitter.com/redbullracing/status/1595401790169694211

Unexpected, does he aim at Perez's seat?

It all depends on how Perez performs next year,if he is the obedient team mate that he has been during all his time to Max Verstappen then most probably Redbull will extend his contract further.If he does not perform well and he is of no help to Verstappen (not that Verstappen needed any help during this season) then most likely it is true that his contract won't be extended and that Ricciardo will probably be back in the Redbull and also there is a really high probability he to end his career there as he is not that young anymore.

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Daniel Riccardo is officially back at RBR as 3rd driver for the next season.

Source: https://twitter.com/redbullracing/status/1595401790169694211

Unexpected, does he aim at Perez's seat?

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Quote from: alegotardo on November 22, 2022, 07:23:15 PM

In my opinion, Ferrari has evolved their cars a lot this season, as they started this year's championship scaring their opponents, but unfortunately the problems didn't take long to start to occur.
They are planning to invest a few more million for the season and 2023... I hope it pays off, because I've always really liked this team.

As for Mercedes, I believe that now they have really made the adjustments that they sought so much, tested and failed throughout 2022.
I expect a huge evolution for Mercedes in 2023.

I also always thought that the criticism of the Ferrari team this year was way to hard from the fans but also from experts. I mean we should never forget where the Ferrari team was last year and the years before. They managed to build a car that was able to fight for the championship this year after they were so far behind in the seasons before. So that achievement alone is pretty big in my opinion. Now they need to build upon that and also make the car more reliable.

Mercedes was very strong in the last quarter of the season. So if they are able to keep that level then they will definitely be fighting for the championship again next season.

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Quote from: Luzin on November 22, 2022, 10:33:14 AM

Today it's all money, they seem to have difficulty funding so they don't participate in MotoGP. Of course, the hope is that they will come back again, I don't know when.
Regarding Ducati, I think they have a lot of money so they have 8 ducati riders. Their development is also amazing, they can break the dominance of Asian manufacturers. Eight drivers are an advantage their Ducati will be easier for the constructors' champion. I think that opportunity is huge next season.

Ducati has developed a lot over the last few years and not just relied on one rider like Yamaha and Honda. The Ducati used to be very difficult to ride, but unlike Honda they have found a middle way to make the Ducati competitive for several riders. And this development has paid off, maybe if Lorenzo had been allowed to stay longer with Ducati he would have won the riders' world championship title with Ducati too. Ducati has learned that a star rider is not everything to win a world championship. The overall package is now simply better than that of the competition.

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Quote from: Koal-84 on November 22, 2022, 07:58:58 AM

It's a real shame that Suzuki pulled out of MotoGP, the grid is very Ducati at the moment, and it shouldn't be a Ducati World Championship. At the moment there are only 5 manufacturers, Ducati, Honda, Yamaha, KTM and Aprilia. GASGAS is also just a repainted KTM, GASGAS has been completely owned by KTM since 2019/20.

The team name that changed was the influence of the sponsor who entered the team even though they were still using the engine from the same manufacturer as before. A close example is GASGAS. Besides that, I see no difference even though only five manufacturers will stay in MotoGP next season because Suzuki's departure has reduced one factory slot for next season.

Quote from: Luzin on November 22, 2022, 10:33:14 AM

Today it's all money, they seem to have difficulty funding so they don't participate in MotoGP. Of course, the hope is that they will come back again, I don't know when.
Regarding Ducati, I think they have a lot of money so they have 8 ducati riders. Their development is also amazing, they can break the dominance of Asian manufacturers. Eight drivers are an advantage their Ducati will be easier for the constructors' champion. I think that opportunity is huge next season.

Yes, it is because of money. Because money is the main thing that allows the team owner to move together with his crew to make things needed such as developing better engines and being able to give engines to independent teams like Ducati did this season. And the race for the title in MotoGP next season I think will be even more challenging because there are some riders from Ducati who have gained more experience this season so they will try not to make more mistakes next season.

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Quote from: safari88 on November 22, 2022, 04:26:27 PM

Mercedes has not been able to compete for the championship all season, but in the last race we saw that there is enough potential in the team. I hope for Mercedes that they can bring the shape and quality of the car back to the start in the coming season. We like nothing better than a battle for the world title between Verstappen, Leclerc, Hamilton and Russell. It must be said that Verstappen makes almost no mistakes, only Hamilton is capable of that. Ferrari has a lot of work to do on the car, while at Red Bull it has been stable all season. Incidentally, Red Bull has good management in many sports.

In my opinion, Ferrari has evolved their cars a lot this season, as they started this year's championship scaring their opponents, but unfortunately the problems didn't take long to start to occur.
They are planning to invest a few more million for the season and 2023... I hope it pays off, because I've always really liked this team.

As for Mercedes, I believe that now they have really made the adjustments that they sought so much, tested and failed throughout 2022.
I expect a huge evolution for Mercedes in 2023.

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Mercedes has not been able to compete for the championship all season, but in the last race we saw that there is enough potential in the team. I hope for Mercedes that they can bring the shape and quality of the car back to the start in the coming season. We like nothing better than a battle for the world title between Verstappen, Leclerc, Hamilton and Russell. It must be said that Verstappen makes almost no mistakes, only Hamilton is capable of that. Ferrari has a lot of work to do on the car, while at Red Bull it has been stable all season. Incidentally, Red Bull has good management in many sports.

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Max just recently said in an interview that after his contract is over with Red Bull he could retire. His goal was to become a world champion, and he became one and there was a controversy with the first one, so he won it again this year and that is purely his, there is no drama going on with this one, and by the time his contract ends, he will be 31 years old and probably will get another 1-2 titles, which would show that he is good enough and he is a world champion with no question marks.

After that, his goals are over, he doesn't have any other goal while racing, he wanted to win, he won, and it's over. I don't know if he will actually do it, but it looks like he didn't race just to race, he raced to win, so after that it feels futile to him I guess.

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