Motosport General discussion tread --- Formula1, MotoGP, WTCC, ETCC, DTM..... - page 189.

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Quote from: CLS63 on December 18, 2022, 02:51:16 PM

Ferrari are claiming that they are back in their old strength again now. They are saying that they have the fastest car on the grid once again. I have heard about another thing also like they had to cut the power of the engine by a significant percent and this held them back from fighting with Red Bull at the same level.

Maybe they are saying the truth about winning their real power back now. We saw an example of it at the beginning of this season in the end. They were very promising. The only thing they need to do this time is to keep consistency. They need to work with better workers to have a season with minimum amount of problems. If we see them having durability issues again it would be a really big disappointment.

I don't think there are teams that can really keep up with Red Bull in the coming season. It has been tense for a while in the past, but that was mainly because Red Bull did not have the car technically in order. And at Ferrari, the problems seem to start after a few races. It was soon clear that Mercedes would not play any significant role in the championship, but I had expected some high placings from Lewis and a win here and there. What Verstappen has achieved is unprecedented when you look at the number of victories. A record he may never even break.

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Quote from: boltz on December 18, 2022, 04:14:44 AM

Quote from: Velvet78 on December 17, 2022, 06:25:10 PM

Ricciardo made a big mistake by not choosing Mercedes rather than Red Bull. His career would have continued better at Mercedes after Hamilton retires. I think he would get along with Russell much better than Verstappen. In the end, Ricciardo doesn't have a very good history with Verstappen in the same team before. That was one of the reasons why he left Red Bull.

Therefore congrats to Mick on the agreement with Mercedes. He is a Schumacher and even this is enough for me to believe in his future to be much better than this. Michael Schumacher also had a career with Mercedes in the past. This is a nice coincidence because of that. I hope Mick will be able to show his real strength when he has the chance.

I think Ricciardo kinda lost his passion to drive or at least to be a top driver. Also he screw himself up big time when he chose to go to McLaren as I don't believe in the RedBull fairy tale with him so I still believe leaving Redbull was the best decision at that time. I also think he will not be back in F1 anytime soon or anytime at all and most likely Mick will have it's chance to step up in Hamilton shoes and take that car for himself in the next years but it all depends on what improvements he can get by being a reserve driver for Mercedes.

Ricciardio is not very old in itself. He also raced for a while together with Max Verstappen. Then you are also unlucky that you ride with someone who clearly has more talent. After that, he never came back to the top. He is a very sympathetic driver, but that is of little use in top sport. Verstappen will still stay with Red Bull, although I heard that Mercedes and Ferrari were keen to have him. Verstappen is also someone who is loyal to his team, he will not switch to the competitor for a few euros. He would really lose a lot of fans with that.

CLS63

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Ferrari are claiming that they are back in their old strength again now. They are saying that they have the fastest car on the grid once again. I have heard about another thing also like they had to cut the power of the engine by a significant percent and this held them back from fighting with Red Bull at the same level.

Maybe they are saying the truth about winning their real power back now. We saw an example of it at the beginning of this season in the end. They were very promising. The only thing they need to do this time is to keep consistency. They need to work with better workers to have a season with minimum amount of problems. If we see them having durability issues again it would be a really big disappointment.

boltz

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Quote from: Velvet78 on December 17, 2022, 06:25:10 PM

Ricciardo made a big mistake by not choosing Mercedes rather than Red Bull. His career would have continued better at Mercedes after Hamilton retires. I think he would get along with Russell much better than Verstappen. In the end, Ricciardo doesn't have a very good history with Verstappen in the same team before. That was one of the reasons why he left Red Bull.

Therefore congrats to Mick on the agreement with Mercedes. He is a Schumacher and even this is enough for me to believe in his future to be much better than this. Michael Schumacher also had a career with Mercedes in the past. This is a nice coincidence because of that. I hope Mick will be able to show his real strength when he has the chance.

I think Ricciardo kinda lost his passion to drive or at least to be a top driver. Also he screw himself up big time when he chose to go to McLaren as I don't believe in the RedBull fairy tale with him so I still believe leaving Redbull was the best decision at that time. I also think he will not be back in F1 anytime soon or anytime at all and most likely Mick will have it's chance to step up in Hamilton shoes and take that car for himself in the next years but it all depends on what improvements he can get by being a reserve driver for Mercedes.

retreat

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Quote from: jostorres on December 16, 2022, 04:26:08 PM

Quote from: retreat on December 16, 2022, 12:34:20 AM

Okay we all agree that Binotto's technical experience is better than Vasseur's, but F1 is not just a good car or a big budget, it's also about approach to drivers and leadership in general and Vasseur is better at that than Binotto. Vasseur with his experience can bring fresh air to the Ferrari team and make this team less rigid than under Binotto's leadership. Vasseur is an important person who discovered talent like Lecrec and Hamilton, and this could be a solution for Ferrari and maybe the history of "Schumacher-Todt-Brawn" can be repeated in the Ferrari F1 team in the coming season. I'm sure that if he gets full support in the next 4-5 years, Vasseur can improve the performance of the Ferrari team.

It is not just about that, but it is a good important thing to note. Now there is a chance that all of that strategic mistakes may not happen, look at how good he built at Alfa Romeo so far and I am guessing that it will probably work well enough for Ferrari that the amount of strategi mistakes like pit stop strategies and tire strategies will be a lot better with the team Vasseur builts.

However, will they have as good of a car? That is not known and that's the point. You can't win with just one or the other, you win with having both of them doing great. Why Red Bull is great? Because Newey gives them a good car and Horner makes sure it works well enough.

Maybe next season Ferrari won't be able to compete with Red Bull in terms of reliable cars, because it's true that until now Ferrari has been reluctant to give their best one. But it's good that they have changed their principal to Vasseur who knows how to get a driver into shape, moreover he understands Leclerc far more than anyone and this is what I think is more important than a good car. Problems such as race strategy issues and tires, I'm sure Vasseur understands this and will fix it soon.

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Quote from: Velvet78 on December 17, 2022, 06:25:10 PM

Ricciardo made a big mistake by not choosing Mercedes rather than Red Bull. His career would have continued better at Mercedes after Hamilton retires. I think he would get along with Russell much better than Verstappen. In the end, Ricciardo doesn't have a very good history with Verstappen in the same team before. That was one of the reasons why he left Red Bull.

I remember years ago, when the smiling Daniel Ricciardo became a Renault driver but at the same time he was very sorry for not getting a seat at Mercedes or Ferrari in the year 2019.

In 2018 he was among the best drivers, having reached third position at a certain point, he was in a very good phase and had even been speculated by both teams, but in the end the negotiations stalled, and the Australian decided to change the RBR by Renault.

I think that since then he has had some fear of these teams and who knows maybe he'll feel better even "running" for Red Bull.

Fortunately, F1 is full of great and brilliant drivers, and I think it's right that in 2023 Ricciardo wants to rest and cool off, in order to risk something again on the tracks in the future.

Velvet78

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Ricciardo made a big mistake by not choosing Mercedes rather than Red Bull. His career would have continued better at Mercedes after Hamilton retires. I think he would get along with Russell much better than Verstappen. In the end, Ricciardo doesn't have a very good history with Verstappen in the same team before. That was one of the reasons why he left Red Bull.

Therefore congrats to Mick on the agreement with Mercedes. He is a Schumacher and even this is enough for me to believe in his future to be much better than this. Michael Schumacher also had a career with Mercedes in the past. This is a nice coincidence because of that. I hope Mick will be able to show his real strength when he has the chance.

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Quote from: coinlocket$ on December 17, 2022, 05:33:25 PM

Quote from: swogerino on December 17, 2022, 05:24:15 PM

Well that says a lot about his future don't you think,I think when Hamilton moves away after a couple of years Mercedes likes to go with the son of the legend at Ferrari,they are most probably trying to make him a great driver during this time by giving him time to test the Mercedes car so he can be ready when the time comes to win Championships.

I don't think has some special skills compared to other drivers but I like him seeing drive a really good fast car like Mercedes because I think everybody deserve a chance,this is a great move for him and I can't wait when the time come to see him driving a Mercedes in a race.

That's is a good point.
Hamilton should have max 2 more years in F1, and who will take his spot?

The 1st driver will be probably Russell and Mick could actually be a good second driver.

I don't think they will go with 2 strong driver cause the history teach a lesson (Alonso-Hamilton 2008, Rosberg-Hamilton 2016)

I doubt Mick would settle to be the second driver if he sees that the car is perfectly fine and he feels that he can fight for the Championship,he has Schumacher blood after all so all he needs is a really good car in order to try and show his skills,of course whoever driver you are,you cannot expect to show your true skills by riding a Haas car,this car it is normal that limits anyone driver abilities to drive.

I think that we need to see what happens until then and also to see how Russell will behave if he sees he has a winning car while he is driving along Hamilton.Can't wait to see how it unfolds but I hope Ferrari,Mclaren also take part in the fight like the old good days of F1.

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Quote from: swogerino on December 17, 2022, 05:24:15 PM

Well that says a lot about his future don't you think,I think when Hamilton moves away after a couple of years Mercedes likes to go with the son of the legend at Ferrari,they are most probably trying to make him a great driver during this time by giving him time to test the Mercedes car so he can be ready when the time comes to win Championships.

I don't think has some special skills compared to other drivers but I like him seeing drive a really good fast car like Mercedes because I think everybody deserve a chance,this is a great move for him and I can't wait when the time come to see him driving a Mercedes in a race.

That's is a good point.
Hamilton should have max 2 more years in F1, and who will take his spot?

The 1st driver will be probably Russell and Mick could actually be a good second driver.

I don't think they will go with 2 strong driver cause the history teach a lesson (Alonso-Hamilton 2008, Rosberg-Hamilton 2016)

swogerino

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Quote from: coinlocket$ on December 17, 2022, 05:16:49 PM

I hadn't seen this.
Mick Schumacher finished his career with the Ferrari Academy last year and has now signed for a new team.

At the moment he is a reserve driver for Mercedes.

Source: https://www.formulapassion.it/motorsport/formula-1/f1-piloti/schumacher-sempre-sentito-vicino-alla-mercedes

Well that says a lot about his future don't you think,I think when Hamilton moves away after a couple of years Mercedes likes to go with the son of the legend at Ferrari,they are most probably trying to make him a great driver during this time by giving him time to test the Mercedes car so he can be ready when the time comes to win Championships.

I don't think has some special skills compared to other drivers but I like him seeing drive a really good fast car like Mercedes because I think everybody deserve a chance,this is a great move for him and I can't wait when the time come to see him driving a Mercedes in a race.

coinlocket$

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I hadn't seen this.
Mick Schumacher finished his career with the Ferrari Academy last year and has now signed for a new team.

At the moment he is a reserve driver for Mercedes.

Source: https://www.formulapassion.it/motorsport/formula-1/f1-piloti/schumacher-sempre-sentito-vicino-alla-mercedes

SquallLeonhart

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Quote from: coinlocket$ on December 16, 2022, 04:34:10 PM

Quote from: Zackgeno96 on December 14, 2022, 03:01:01 PM

Ferrari a new team boss. No idea why the previous one left. Perhaps on the basis of last season, in which Ferrari performed disappointingly halfway through and in the final races of the season. But should you be fired for that? A lot of things will change at Ferrari, but the question is how good Ferrari will be next season with a new car. I don't know if the rules will be changed again. Anyway, I expect Verstappen and Perez to keep the seats at Red Bull.

Lack of results and the big number of mistakes added to media pressure.

That's why they removed him.

Lack of results is a reason all by itself without needing anything else. Media pressure is on every other team principal as well, after Horner managed to win with Vettel for 4 years in a row, he had to sit down and watch his team fail at beating Mercedes for 7 years in a row, a huge domination, even lose to Mercedes last year as well while Max won, and this is the first time in nearly a decade they won the constructors.

All of which is a proof that media pressure and results are not as important as we might imagine, it is all about the mistakes. If you can't win then you can't win, but if you had a chance to win but made so many mistakes that something that might have been close became an easy loss, then it's time to go.

karabiber

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I love the annual shared stats as we get closer to the end of the year. The most durable vehicle of 2022 in F1 belongs to Mercedes. How can Mercedes, which closed the 2022 season with no points and placed eighth in the pit stop championship, be at the top of its endurance? I guess their engineers focus on durability. In addition, Mercedes completed 2 thousand 247 laps in 2022 and became the team with the most laps of the season. I hope the Mercedes technical team and team will focus on speed for 2023, apart from endurance. They definitely need a good driver as well.

Koal-84

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Quote from: swogerino on December 16, 2022, 07:46:16 AM

In theory they should stop making such mistakes for 2023 since we are seeing a new Chief Technical Officer is appointed and the first thing he should do in my opinion is review all the mistakes this team has made during the 2022 season and try to see what and where it did go wrong.

Once he identifies them and I believe he will have enough time to do that then he can improve the people behind these mistakes if they are still the same at Ferrari,he can impose a new way of doing things where the team making decisions should notify him before making that decision if they have time of course during the race to do that,you cannot expect such way of doing things when rain immediately starts and needs immediate action.

I also think that with an experienced team principal who has been a team principal for a long time, Ferrari is trying to bring the quality of experience into the team to analyse their own mistakes and fix them.

As Alfa/Sauber team boss, he has also seen Ferrari's mistakes and apart from the technical side, he will want to improve the strategy and pit stops.

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Quote from: coinlocket$ on December 16, 2022, 04:34:10 PM

Quote from: Zackgeno96 on December 14, 2022, 03:01:01 PM

Ferrari a new team boss. No idea why the previous one left. Perhaps on the basis of last season, in which Ferrari performed disappointingly halfway through and in the final races of the season. But should you be fired for that? A lot of things will change at Ferrari, but the question is how good Ferrari will be next season with a new car. I don't know if the rules will be changed again. Anyway, I expect Verstappen and Perez to keep the seats at Red Bull.

Lack of results and the big number of mistakes added to media pressure.

That's why they removed him.

It was a normal season and the lack of results and the number of mistakes for a team like Ferrari was also not normal,I have been following F1 since Hockenheim 1996 and I don't remember a season in which Ferrari made as many mistakes as in this last season we just left behind.Based on this and based on the fact that the previous boss had a lot of time at Ferrari if I were him I would have quit myself and not waited for Ferrari to fire me.

Perez is a great team mate to Verstappen hegemony and they will keep him at Redbull for as long as he will be a great team mate to their "first" driver Verstappen.

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Quote from: Zackgeno96 on December 14, 2022, 03:01:01 PM

Ferrari a new team boss. No idea why the previous one left. Perhaps on the basis of last season, in which Ferrari performed disappointingly halfway through and in the final races of the season. But should you be fired for that? A lot of things will change at Ferrari, but the question is how good Ferrari will be next season with a new car. I don't know if the rules will be changed again. Anyway, I expect Verstappen and Perez to keep the seats at Red Bull.

Lack of results and the big number of mistakes added to media pressure.

That's why they removed him.

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Quote from: retreat on December 16, 2022, 12:34:20 AM

Okay we all agree that Binotto's technical experience is better than Vasseur's, but F1 is not just a good car or a big budget, it's also about approach to drivers and leadership in general and Vasseur is better at that than Binotto. Vasseur with his experience can bring fresh air to the Ferrari team and make this team less rigid than under Binotto's leadership. Vasseur is an important person who discovered talent like Lecrec and Hamilton, and this could be a solution for Ferrari and maybe the history of "Schumacher-Todt-Brawn" can be repeated in the Ferrari F1 team in the coming season. I'm sure that if he gets full support in the next 4-5 years, Vasseur can improve the performance of the Ferrari team.

It is not just about that, but it is a good important thing to note. Now there is a chance that all of that strategic mistakes may not happen, look at how good he built at Alfa Romeo so far and I am guessing that it will probably work well enough for Ferrari that the amount of strategi mistakes like pit stop strategies and tire strategies will be a lot better with the team Vasseur builts.

However, will they have as good of a car? That is not known and that's the point. You can't win with just one or the other, you win with having both of them doing great. Why Red Bull is great? Because Newey gives them a good car and Horner makes sure it works well enough.

Juggy777

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Quote from: swogerino on December 16, 2022, 07:46:16 AM

Quote from: Koal-84 on December 16, 2022, 06:01:56 AM

Quote from: coinlocket$ on December 15, 2022, 05:45:19 PM

The car of this year was quite good before the summer when they changed the regulation of the cars.

It is the second time when Ferrari got the best or almost the best car and they nerf it (2019 too)

Even if Ferrari had the best car in the field at the beginning of the season, they still make so many mistakes of their own (pit stops, strategy mistakes or driving errors) that no matter how good the car is, the world championship doesn't pay off at the end of the season.

I wrote it a short time ago, if Ferrari stops making their own mistakes, they are the favourites for the world championship title in 2023 for me.

In theory they should stop making such mistakes for 2023 since we are seeing a new Chief Technical Officer is appointed and the first thing he should do in my opinion is review all the mistakes this team has made during the 2022 season and try to see what and where it did go wrong.

Once he identifies them and I believe he will have enough time to do that then he can improve the people behind these mistakes if they are still the same at Ferrari,he can impose a new way of doing things where the team making decisions should notify him before making that decision if they have time of course during the race to do that,you cannot expect such way of doing things when rain immediately starts and needs immediate action.

@swogerino I have totally given up on Ferrari because for all their hype they just fail to win, and I personally don’t expect anything to change in 2023. Furthermore I believe that it’ll take at least 2 - 3 year’s for them to start winning again, and with Hamilton retirement coming up I believe that’s an golden opportunity for them and they should try and exploit it.

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Quote from: Koal-84 on December 16, 2022, 06:01:56 AM

Quote from: coinlocket$ on December 15, 2022, 05:45:19 PM

The car of this year was quite good before the summer when they changed the regulation of the cars.

It is the second time when Ferrari got the best or almost the best car and they nerf it (2019 too)

Even if Ferrari had the best car in the field at the beginning of the season, they still make so many mistakes of their own (pit stops, strategy mistakes or driving errors) that no matter how good the car is, the world championship doesn't pay off at the end of the season.

I wrote it a short time ago, if Ferrari stops making their own mistakes, they are the favourites for the world championship title in 2023 for me.

In theory they should stop making such mistakes for 2023 since we are seeing a new Chief Technical Officer is appointed and the first thing he should do in my opinion is review all the mistakes this team has made during the 2022 season and try to see what and where it did go wrong.

Once he identifies them and I believe he will have enough time to do that then he can improve the people behind these mistakes if they are still the same at Ferrari,he can impose a new way of doing things where the team making decisions should notify him before making that decision if they have time of course during the race to do that,you cannot expect such way of doing things when rain immediately starts and needs immediate action.

Koal-84

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Quote from: coinlocket$ on December 15, 2022, 05:45:19 PM

The car of this year was quite good before the summer when they changed the regulation of the cars.

It is the second time when Ferrari got the best or almost the best car and they nerf it (2019 too)

Even if Ferrari had the best car in the field at the beginning of the season, they still make so many mistakes of their own (pit stops, strategy mistakes or driving errors) that no matter how good the car is, the world championship doesn't pay off at the end of the season.

I wrote it a short time ago, if Ferrari stops making their own mistakes, they are the favourites for the world championship title in 2023 for me.

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