Motosport General discussion tread --- Formula1, MotoGP, WTCC, ETCC, DTM..... - page 188.

Luzin

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Quote from: Koal-84 on November 22, 2022, 07:58:58 AM

It's a real shame that Suzuki pulled out of MotoGP, the grid is very Ducati at the moment, and it shouldn't be a Ducati World Championship. At the moment there are only 5 manufacturers, Ducati, Honda, Yamaha, KTM and Aprilia. GASGAS is also just a repainted KTM, GASGAS has been completely owned by KTM since 2019/20.

Today it's all money, they seem to have difficulty funding so they don't participate in MotoGP. Of course, the hope is that they will come back again, I don't know when.
Regarding Ducati, I think they have a lot of money so they have 8 ducati riders. Their development is also amazing, they can break the dominance of Asian manufacturers. Eight drivers are an advantage their Ducati will be easier for the constructors' champion. I think that opportunity is huge next season.

Koal-84

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Quote from: Luzin on November 21, 2022, 10:39:34 AM

The end of the class showed that Ducati is ready to be dominant next season. Ducati's long wait comes this year. This makes it look like the competition will shift to Ducati. They have 8 drivers for the 2022 season. It was very profitable to be able to become a constructors' champion.
For next year maybe they will still be dominant if their drivers don't wane. In addition, the potential for a re-champion seems quite open, until now I have not found any news about the development of Yamaha bikes, and Honda.

I read if there will be many updates in the MotoGP class. There will be 2 new teams namely Tech3 GASGAS Factory Racing and Aprilia's RNF MotoGP. Here's temporary data for the 2023 season.

It's a real shame that Suzuki pulled out of MotoGP, the grid is very Ducati at the moment, and it shouldn't be a Ducati World Championship. At the moment there are only 5 manufacturers, Ducati, Honda, Yamaha, KTM and Aprilia. GASGAS is also just a repainted KTM, GASGAS has been completely owned by KTM since 2019/20.

darewaller

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Quote from: judas on November 20, 2022, 07:47:58 AM

Image source: https://gpracingstats.com/seasons/2022-world-championship/pole-positions/

This image shows the drivers who have taken pole positions so far. Even though Verstappen is already the champion even he is behind Leclerc about pole position statistics. Leclerc has 9 poles while Verstappen has 7 now. This proves how strong Ferrari have been in qualifying sessions so far despite their having weaknesses and making big mistakes in races. On this week Ferrari managed to get past Mercedes. Leclerc is starting right behind Perez which is really going to be interesting.

Both drivers need as much points as possible for securing the second spot in the driver championship. Leclerc is normally a more aggressive driver than Perez indeed. If he doesn't have important problems with the car or any other mistakes by the team then I think he can finish ahead of Perez. But as Perez is a great driver about defense he can make big difficulties for him at the same time. We can watch a wonderful rivalry in this very last race of the season.

Ferarri truly had one of the best cars for dominating just one lap speed, they were really good there. They weren't good at race speed and overtaking, that was a problem for them, and definitely had a trouble with defending for sure but when it comes to just one lap speed then they were as good as any other team, even better than Red Bull if you ask me.

They just failed because they had plenty of mistakes, DNF's and tire selection issues, and plenty of things like that, when you combine all of those together, they could have gotten like at least another 100+ points, which also means drop in points for Max because of that as well, but it's racing for you, sometimes you can do all right, and then one mistake causes you the whole race.

Pulsar77

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In this season we have watched;

- Ferrari started solidly and gave big hopes for their fans but it didn't last long. They failed big time by huge mistakes especially and caused Leclerc's title chance to end early.
- Red Bull dominated the whole season and Verstappen reached a very comfortable title this time after that unforgettable race with Hamilton in the previous season.
- Mercedes started really badly but they made a big improvement and started to get ahead of Ferrari as well.

Next season I don't expect less than this from Red Bull. Mercedes really have a potential to fight at a similar level with them. But Ferrari might still be a disappointment unless they make significant changes.

Luzin

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The end of the class showed that Ducati is ready to be dominant next season. Ducati's long wait comes this year. This makes it look like the competition will shift to Ducati. They have 8 drivers for the 2022 season. It was very profitable to be able to become a constructors' champion.
For next year maybe they will still be dominant if their drivers don't wane. In addition, the potential for a re-champion seems quite open, until now I have not found any news about the development of Yamaha bikes, and Honda.

I read if there will be many updates in the MotoGP class. There will be 2 new teams namely Tech3 GASGAS Factory Racing and Aprilia's RNF MotoGP. Here's temporary data for the 2023 season.

Source: https://www.motogp.com/en/news/2022/11/03/provisional-2023-entry-lists-who-sits-where-next-year/443474

tokeweed

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Quote from: püsür on November 21, 2022, 07:53:32 AM

The season is over and congratulations Max. Although they became champions by exceeding the budget, I would like to congratulate Redbull separately and wish Ferrari and Mercedes a heavy loss. While it was known that redbull would exceed the budget before the half of the season came, neither Ferrari nor Mercedes could take any action. Everyone knew that Redbull would get a small penalty and get rid of it. Binotto missed the opportunity. You are the brand of this sport, you have been obsessed since the beginning of the year about the budget. Just improve your car. Do not care about the fine, look at redbull, the guys developed the car and became champions. The result is a three cent penalty. Congratulations to Marko and Horner, they manupilate f1 management easily.

Toto, on the other hand, was a smart man, but the wrong concept of the vehicle ruined all his work, otherwise he would have forced Redbull again this year. No matter how hard they tried, the train had run away from the beginning.

Ferrari must immediately part ways with binotto, sainz, strategy and the pit crew or they will be more frustrated. It feels like next year we will watch a championship between max and mercedes again. Ferrari is not in this race.

^ Yeah they blamed 'catering costs' that they didn't include as part of the spend they used to develop the car. And sure it's prolly just a lame excuse. But next season and with the fine and the penalty on Red Bull, if they come out still winning the next season, what would that say about Merc and Ferrari? :/

Everybody thinks the pressure is on Red Bull but really there could be more pressure on the other top teams. Now they have no excuse and would have to win the next season.

Can't wait for next season... Let the memes and the banter commence.

püsür

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The season is over and congratulations Max. Although they became champions by exceeding the budget, I would like to congratulate Redbull separately and wish Ferrari and Mercedes a heavy loss. While it was known that redbull would exceed the budget before the half of the season came, neither Ferrari nor Mercedes could take any action. Everyone knew that Redbull would get a small penalty and get rid of it. Binotto missed the opportunity. You are the brand of this sport, you have been obsessed since the beginning of the year about the budget. Just improve your car. Do not care about the fine, look at redbull, the guys developed the car and became champions. The result is a three cent penalty. Congratulations to Marko and Horner, they manupilate f1 management easily.

Toto, on the other hand, was a smart man, but the wrong concept of the vehicle ruined all his work, otherwise he would have forced Redbull again this year. No matter how hard they tried, the train had run away from the beginning.

Ferrari must immediately part ways with binotto, sainz, strategy and the pit crew or they will be more frustrated. It feels like next year we will watch a championship between max and mercedes again. Ferrari is not in this race.

swogerino

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Quote from: coinlocket$ on November 20, 2022, 04:23:36 PM

Quote from: judas on November 20, 2022, 07:47:58 AM

This image shows the drivers who have taken pole positions so far. Even though Verstappen is already the champion even he is behind Leclerc about pole position statistics. Leclerc has 9 poles while Verstappen has 7 now. This proves how strong Ferrari have been in qualifying sessions so far despite their having weaknesses and making big mistakes in races. On this week Ferrari managed to get past Mercedes. Leclerc is starting right behind Perez which is really going to be interesting.

Leclecr is also the most talented in the grid even over Max as single lap performance, he did so many miracles in these years.

He need to improve in races but he has less expirience over Max, he will have time if he will have a competitive car.

That sums it up pretty well about Leclerc,I also like him a lot as a driver but he loses focus during the long run or at least he is not as good as he is in a single lap time.The last pole of him in Singapore from him confirms to me what you just said,however he has been in F1 for about 4 years and next it will be 5 or maybe even more I don't remember well and that is enough time for someone to improve himself.

The only thing he has missed is a competitive car throughout the whole season as he had one in the first 7-8 races of this season but from then and on could not have such car again because of the supremacy of Redbull.

Jackl87

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Quote from: Distraction on November 20, 2022, 11:06:13 AM

Truthfully it wasn't an impressive race. The first laps of the race was really intriguing but after that it was just boring.

I agree this was one of the most boring races of this season in my opinion. A big reason for that is obviously that the Championship was already decided some weeks ago and to be honest the fight for the second place was only hyped up by the media in my opinion in order to create some drama and excitement before the race but in the end it is just the second place and not many people really care about that in my opinion.
Also today was the last race for Sebastian Vettel and also for Mick Schumacher. For me it is pretty said that his contract by Haas was not prolonged but i think he will be back in the Formula 1 pretty soon. Today he made one mistake again but he still was ahead of Magnussen. I think he has the quality to be a permanent F1 driver.

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Quote from: LTU_btc on November 20, 2022, 04:44:10 PM

I'll correct you. IIRC, Brawn GP won most race only in the first half of season. In second part they won just few races and there was quite a lot different race winners then.
I wouldn't be surprised if Verstappen's result will be beaten. Maybe by himself. It's needed that one team would have car which completely dominate against others. It looked that Schumaher's 91 wins record won't be beatean never, but such things become possible when we have such long seasons like 23-24 races. In past there was something like 18 races during whole season.

Only adding 2 things here maybe 3.

Every year will we have more races, I think we will have even 30 races or even more with the sprint races, so points and wins will be increase in absoulte number.
It is even easier for Max to get a big number since he has a weak mate in his team if he will still have a dominant car.

The perfect example is the mondial of 2016 with the most dominat car maybe ever made
19 of 21 wins where from Mercedes, 20 of 21 poles and inone race they "killed" themself if you can remember

Source: https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic.fanpage.it%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fsites%2F27%2F2021%2F05%2Fhamilton-rosberg-spagna-2016-1200x675.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.fanpage.it%2Fsport%2Fmotori%2Fla-guerra-tra-hamilton-e-rosberg-alla-mercedes-lultima-grande-faida-interna-in-formula-1%2F&tbnid=5g67GX8EI8wA3M&vet=12ahUKEwiDntXp3r37AhUYxAIHHS5oDl8QMygDegUIARDCAQ..i&docid=V8_oHb2Ghy2EeM&w=1200&h=675&q=hamilton%20rosberg%20incidente&client=firefox-b-d&ved=2ahUKEwiDntXp3r37AhUYxAIHHS5oDl8QMygDegUIARDCAQ
but Hamilton got a strong teamate and they both

There the results

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Formula_One_World_Championship

TDLR, instead of watching the number of wins we should look for the % of winning.

LTU_btc

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Interesting thing outside Big 3 (Red Bull, Mercedes and Ferrari), only onedriver from other teams managed to reach podium during whole season - it's Lando Norris. After few seasons when we had teams like Alpine, Alpha Tauri, Mclaren reaching podium and even getting wins, it looks a bit weird. But it shows that Big 3 had huge gap from other teams.
Really wanted to see Perez reaching Leclerc and overtaking him, but he was just too slow and didn't managed to get into DRS zone. Good to see that Vettel managed to get point in last race, despite that their strategy wasn't got and it happened only thanks to Lewis retirement.

Quote from: swogerino on November 20, 2022, 10:16:54 AM

Quote from: Zackgeno96 on November 20, 2022, 10:10:40 AM

Verstappen won 15 of the 22 races. Is anyone ever going to beat that record again? Certainly at the beginning of the season, no one saw that coming. At the beginning of the season, Leclerc was still able to catch up, but after that it was over for Ferrari. It's a pity for Perez that he didn't manage to get 2nd place, otherwise he would have also taken 2nd place in the general classification. All in all, a supsr season for Red Bull, and let's hope that next season will be a lot more exciting and that Hamilton can also participate in the title fight.

I think it will be very hard for any one to try and break this record as someone needs to win 16 races out of 20-23 that one season will have.This can only happen in a season like that of 2009 where Brawn GP won almost every race of that season and the car was clearly better than any other and Jenson Button made great profit and won himself a super easy title back in that year.Now the competition is much bigger,there are much better drivers than there were in the year 2009 so it will be extremely difficult if not possible to break this record that Verstappen just put right now.

I'll correct you. IIRC, Brawn GP won most race only in the first half of season. In second part they won just few races and there was quite a lot different race winners then.
I wouldn't be surprised if Verstappen's result will be beaten. Maybe by himself. It's needed that one team would have car which completely dominate against others. It looked that Schumaher's 91 wins record won't be beatean never, but such things become possible when we have such long seasons like 23-24 races. In past there was something like 18 races during whole season.

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Quote from: judas on November 20, 2022, 07:47:58 AM

This image shows the drivers who have taken pole positions so far. Even though Verstappen is already the champion even he is behind Leclerc about pole position statistics. Leclerc has 9 poles while Verstappen has 7 now. This proves how strong Ferrari have been in qualifying sessions so far despite their having weaknesses and making big mistakes in races. On this week Ferrari managed to get past Mercedes. Leclerc is starting right behind Perez which is really going to be interesting.

Leclecr is also the most talented in the grid even over Max as single lap performance, he did so many miracles in these years.

He need to improve in races but he has less expirience over Max, he will have time if he will have a competitive car.

Distraction

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Truthfully it wasn't an impressive race. The first laps of the race was really intriguing but after that it was just boring. There were some nice overtakes to watch. Sainz, Hamilton and Russell put up a good fight against each other. It was an unfortunate race for Hamilton by the way. Because first he lost power and not much time after he had a shifting problem which brought his end in the race. There wasn't much time left for the end of the race actually but he was unlucky. I hoped to see a good rivalry between Leclerc and Perez. But we didn't see any. Leclerc had a clean race and Perez couldn't close up the gap with him any time.

It was a deserved 2nd place for Leclerc so congrats to him. Lastly, it was really emotional to see Vettel finishing his last race in his career. Who knows maybe we can see him back in F1 in the future like Alonso.

tokeweed

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Quote from: Zackgeno96 on November 20, 2022, 10:10:40 AM

Verstappen won 15 of the 22 races. Is anyone ever going to beat that record again? Certainly at the beginning of the season, no one saw that coming. At the beginning of the season, Leclerc was still able to catch up, but after that it was over for Ferrari. It's a pity for Perez that he didn't manage to get 2nd place, otherwise he would have also taken 2nd place in the general classification. All in all, a supsr season for Red Bull, and let's hope that next season will be a lot more exciting and that Hamilton can also participate in the title fight.

I don't we could say that it's really surprsing or 'no one saw it coming'. At the start of the 2022 season, anybody who follows F1 more closely would already have some sort of inkling that either Verstappen or Hamilton could somewhat win majority of the races with Leclerc as the dark horse.

So who watched the race? And how was it? I should have watched it as it was Vettel's final race but I forgot. Lol. I already liked him when everybody was annoyed by him and the finger during his younger years. Cheesy

But in the end he was one of the most liked personalities in the sport. He's a good guy.

swogerino

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Quote from: Zackgeno96 on November 20, 2022, 10:10:40 AM

Verstappen won 15 of the 22 races. Is anyone ever going to beat that record again? Certainly at the beginning of the season, no one saw that coming. At the beginning of the season, Leclerc was still able to catch up, but after that it was over for Ferrari. It's a pity for Perez that he didn't manage to get 2nd place, otherwise he would have also taken 2nd place in the general classification. All in all, a supsr season for Red Bull, and let's hope that next season will be a lot more exciting and that Hamilton can also participate in the title fight.

I think it will be very hard for any one to try and break this record as someone needs to win 16 races out of 20-23 that one season will have.This can only happen in a season like that of 2009 where Brawn GP won almost every race of that season and the car was clearly better than any other and Jenson Button made great profit and won himself a super easy title back in that year.Now the competition is much bigger,there are much better drivers than there were in the year 2009 so it will be extremely difficult if not possible to break this record that Verstappen just put right now.

Zackgeno96

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Verstappen won 15 of the 22 races. Is anyone ever going to beat that record again? Certainly at the beginning of the season, no one saw that coming. At the beginning of the season, Leclerc was still able to catch up, but after that it was over for Ferrari. It's a pity for Perez that he didn't manage to get 2nd place, otherwise he would have also taken 2nd place in the general classification. All in all, a supsr season for Red Bull, and let's hope that next season will be a lot more exciting and that Hamilton can also participate in the title fight.

judas

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Image source: https://gpracingstats.com/seasons/2022-world-championship/pole-positions/

This image shows the drivers who have taken pole positions so far. Even though Verstappen is already the champion even he is behind Leclerc about pole position statistics. Leclerc has 9 poles while Verstappen has 7 now. This proves how strong Ferrari have been in qualifying sessions so far despite their having weaknesses and making big mistakes in races. On this week Ferrari managed to get past Mercedes. Leclerc is starting right behind Perez which is really going to be interesting.

Both drivers need as much points as possible for securing the second spot in the driver championship. Leclerc is normally a more aggressive driver than Perez indeed. If he doesn't have important problems with the car or any other mistakes by the team then I think he can finish ahead of Perez. But as Perez is a great driver about defense he can make big difficulties for him at the same time. We can watch a wonderful rivalry in this very last race of the season.

swogerino

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Quote from: Juggy777 on November 19, 2022, 11:33:06 PM

Quote from: alegotardo on November 19, 2022, 07:48:58 PM

Quote from: Velvet78 on November 19, 2022, 06:34:52 PM

Leclerc is ahead of Perez now in the driver standings already despite the equal points situation. It must be related to the total wins in this season maybe. Because Leclerc must have one more wins than Perez in this season so far. In case of they stay at equal points then Leclerc must be finishing at the second position.

But I feel like Perez can finish ahead of Leclerc anyway. He seems more ambitious now and he has a car advantage as well.

Yes... Sérgio Pérez and Charles Leclerc appear tied, both with 290 points. However, the Ferrari driver is ahead because the tiebreaker is having achieved more victories in the season... he has three against two of his Mexican rival.

I still believe that Leclerc will be able to get ahead of Pérez in the next race and take second place, we'll see if that actually happens.
I believe that Verstappen himself will not make it easy for Pérez, consequently helping Leclerc in this achievement.

I strongly believe that Leclerc will be very keen to finish second, and I hope that he can build on this for the next season because personally I had expected a lot from Ferrari this season but they didn’t live up to the hype. Lastly it’ll definitely be a tough race for Leclerc, because Perez wouldn’t want to let him seal that second spot without a fight hence I’m expecting lots of drama in this race.

There will be drama only if something happens during the start because if they start correctly all of them,the Redbull was better in speed and had better top speed during the DRS zones here compared to Ferrari.Ferrari have their chances if they can follow up closely and then to use the DRS to pass Perez,of course they need to look out for Mercedes drivers too because the pace of the race for the Mercedes team is much better compared to their qualifying pace.

I think Verstappen does not play a role here,if he gets ahead and wins the race then is up to Perez to keep behind the Ferraris and surely Redbull has the pace to do so.

bestcoins1

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Congratulations to the factory Ducati that today has managed to get two more champions, namely the champion as the best team and also the champion as the best factory in WSBK this season after Race1 Australia ended. This year, Ducati has really succeeded because it has been able to win the MotoGP world title and also the WSBK world champion by bringing home three trophies at once in each championship.

wiss19

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I feel like Mick is just too young to be let go right away, dude was racing with Haas, and yes I agree this year he was terrible, but so far he has not raced with a proper car and let him go? Right away like that? I feel like he is just dealt a bad hand and could come back.

I suggest him to be either in indycar or in even e-formula which would be a lot better. He would both be staying in the formula family, and he would be able to show himself if he is really that good or not. If he wins something, he would have a chance to come back. I disagree on all these reserve driver talks, that is not good, it's better if he drivers in a race all year, would give him more chances to showcase his talents.

Topic: Motosport General discussion tread --- Formula1, MotoGP, WTCC, ETCC, DTM..... - page 188. (Read 141615 times)