Topic: Motosport General discussion tread --- Formula1, MotoGP, WTCC, ETCC, DTM..... - page 266. (Read 132909 times)

Just before we had next weekend in the Bahrain race things are heating up with George Russell claiming "Most probably the Ferraris are the better car yet globally speaking" but was countered by Sainz that said "Typical of Mercedes and in this case Russell to transfer the hype to the other teams and then come in the first race and win it".Who is right,for me is Sainz as Ferrari doesn't look that superior to me while Mercedes is aggressively trying lots of different setups.I don't think that the fastest lap of Sainz is that noteworthy but anything can be,I hope it really is Ferrari who has some really good pace,together with other teams so we are spared a boring season where Mercedes keeps winning.

The new "lets get rid of sidepods" thing will probably cause a lot of stir for the coming months. Between Red Bull not even doing a proper testing and getting times right or wrong, and between them being the heaviest car by far on the track, and Mercedes having no side pots this could go either way.

Either RedBull is hiding something, and when they actually come out with their car on the first official race, they will have something amazing or they will really end up with something horrible and either Mercedes will do amazingly thanks to no sidepots, or they will do horrible because of it as well. Lets see whose gamble will hit, and whose won't.

Rofl.  Way before my time but isn't that from Bernie Ecclestone's team?  I think I saw that in one of F1's history vids a couple or so years ago.

Anyway I watched a bit of testing earlier before Latifi's car's rear caught fire and they had to stop the session.  I have to say that coinlocket$ was on to something when he said Ferrari could have the fastest car.  And remind me guys, is it normal for these guys to have .4 - .5 gaps during testing or should it be a lot closer?

Here are the final lap times for day 2.

2022 F1 Pre Season Testing Bahrain Day 2 Final Lap Times

1   Carlos Sainz   ESP   Scuderia Ferrari   1m33.532s   60
2   Max Verstappen   NED   Oracle Red Bull Racing   1m34.011s   86
3   Lance Stroll   CAN   Aston Martin Aramco Cognizant Formula One Team   1m34.064s   70
4   Lewis Hamilton   GBR   Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team   1m34.141s   47
5   Esteban Ocon   FRA   BWT Alpine F1 Team   1m34.276s   111
6   Charles Leclerc   MON   Scuderia Ferrari   1m34.366s   54
7   Lando Norris   GBR   McLaren F1 Team   1m34.609s   60
8   Sebastian Vettel   GER   Aston Martin Aramco Cognizant Formula One Team   1m36.020s   46
9   Kevin Magnussen   DAN   Haas F1 Team   1m36.505s   39
10   Yuki Tsunoda   JPN   Scuderia AlphaTauri   1m36.802s   120
11   Valtteri Bottas   FIN   Alfa Romeo F1 Team Orlen   1m36.987s   25
12   Mick Schumacher   GER   Haas F1 Team   1m37.846s   23
13   George Russell   GBR   Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team   1m38.585s   67
14   Nicholas Latifi   CAN   Williams Racing   1m39.845s   12
15   Guanyu Zhou   CHN   Alfa Romeo F1 Team Orlen   1m39.984s   48

1   Esteban Ocon   FRA   BWT Alpine F1 Team   1m34.276s   59
2   Charles Leclerc   MON   Scuderia Ferrari   1m34.366s   54
3   Max Verstappen   NED   Oracle Red Bull Racing   1m35.874s   45
4   Sebastian Vettel   GER   Aston Martin Aramco Cognizant Formula One Team   1m36.020s   46
5   Lando Norris   GBR   McLaren F1 Team   1m36.354s   29
6   Yuki Tsunoda   JPN   Scuderia AlphaTauri   1m36.802s   44
7   Valtteri Bottas   FIN   Alfa Romeo F1 Team Orlen   1m36.987s   25
8   Mick Schumacher   GER   Haas F1 Team   1m37.846s   23
9   George Russell   GBR   Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team   1m38.585s   67
10   Nicholas Latifi   CAN   Williams Racing   1m39.845s   12

https://www.crash.net/f1/results/998150/1/2022-bahrain-f1-test-day-2-friday-lap-times-2pm


Monring session.

So far teams have a lot of problems with the management of the tires.

lap timing quickly increases lap after lap.

The Mandalika Grand Prix Association (MGPA) as the local promoter will present a series of entertainment to welcome the return of the Motorcycle Racing World Championship series to Indonesia after 25 years.

A number of top musicians, including the band Padi, Slank, RAN, to singers, producers, and songwriters like Pamungkas, will also entertain the audience from Pertamina Mandalika Circuit, Lombok, West Nusa Tenggara.

"These are all a series of activities that we make," said Deputy Director of MGPA Cahyadi Wanda in front of journalists, recently.

“So, the audience will not only watch the race, but also other entertainment activities. With a music concert, the MotoGP race in Mandalika will be more lively.”

Cahyadi also admitted that he was grateful that the enthusiasm and interest of the community was very high in welcoming the Indonesian MotoGP.

^{Source: Motorsport.com & https://www.instagram.com/p/Ca8nJTIpBqb/}

I do kind of agree that the new Merc development is quite extreme and it would be a complex and time-consuming endeavour for another team to copy it... but nevertheless, if you have two versions of your car, one with a standard(ish) design, and one with an innovative new design that you don't want other teams to copy (but which might get banned), and you have two testing windows, then...
i) You'd test one car in one window, and the other car in the other window.
ii) You'd test the 'normal' design first and the 'secret' design second, to minimise the time available for other teams to copy.

There is still a tactical advantage to running the secret car in the second test, not the first - even if it's only a slight difference.


But yeah... all this hysteria, and we still don't know if it's actually faster yet anyway! Presumably Merc think the new design is faster, but no-one knows for sure yet.

Mercedes changing things,quite a lot of things if you follow F1 news pages mainly the official F1 Instagram which I follow and they have posted during these last couple of days that Mercedes has made at least 12 changes to the car since the first test to this second test which is still ongoing.I don't know how to look at it but I hope they will not be able to have a massive advantage against all other cars otherwise we will have another Brawn GP of 2009 nightmare for us as fans of the sport.Williams also made minimal adjustments from what I saw in the posts so I am praying that Mercedes have not found a loophole in this new regulations which will ruin the F1 2022.

Some teams use one driver in the morning and one in the afternoon while others use one driver one than the second driver the day after and both on third days.

Different strategies.

Eric Mahe (Manager Fabio) : "To be honest, we weren't there (Suzuki). That is, we were talking about progress with Yamaha at the end of the season. For reasons I can't name, it was less promising than expected, so here we are trying more assess 2023, regarding the technical package"

"At the moment, there is no rush. There are four drivers who have signed contracts, and as Livio Suppo said, Fabio is an interesting profile of a rider"

"Personally, I don't have a target timeline. In short, the important thing is to understand what will happen at Yamaha, in the future, and then we will see what happens to the others, but not at the start (of the season)"

^{Source : Motosan & quartararo.id}

I don't see Verstappen in this list. Would have expected that in all test rounds. Can't wait for them to start again. It all seems a lot closer together now because of the sanctions and limits that have been imposed.
Actually, last season was quite exciting between Verstappen and Hamilton. But it would be so nice if the title fight went between a ma or 4-5.

I don't think teams can copy each other at least for this year, the cars are too much different from each other.

They can easily copy the mirror thing they used, but for the sides of the car, they can before the end of the year.

If a team wants to copy them they need to change all the mechanical inside, they can't just copy the outside.

And we know it is a surprising thing but we don't know if it will be the best solution, for example, they are already talking about possible overheating problems.

I think it makes perfect sense. I mean, you have a new idea that will gain you a big advantage, but you don't want the other teams to know about it, but you also don't know if it will get banned.

So you start the tests off with your "safe" version of the car, which doesn't have the radical new design. This way you get some testing in with the safe version, and you don't allow the opposition to see your new design, so they can't start copying it.

Then, second test, you test the new design, it's far too late now for other teams to start copying, and you've fooled them all into thinking your car from the first test is your main model.

End result: You've done tests on both versions in case the new design gets banned, and you've also stopped the opposition copying you on the new design. Perfectly logical. In retrospect, if I was a car designer, that exactly the strategy I'd have used.

It is reported that Mercedes "found" it. I do not what "it" means, I do not know what finding it means, I just hear that they found it. Which means that for the time being their car is clear 1 second faster than anyone around the track. Welcome back to 2014 era and another domination from Mercedes. If that happens again, if it is like Hamilton is clear champion with 100+ points to next competition from another team, then it is going to be super boring again.

I feel like that is not what F1 needs and the years like last year would be better. Have Max and Hamilton close, and even if Hamilton wins, at least there was a competition. Mercedes beating everyone with like 30+ seconds difference on most races will not get viewership.

Times of the day

1   Pierre Gasly   FRA   Scuderia AlphaTauri   1m33.902s   103
2   Carlos Sainz   ESP   Scuderia Ferrari   1m34.359s   52
3   Charles Leclerc   MON   Scuderia Ferrari   1m34.531s   64
4   Lance Stroll   CAN   Aston Martin Aramco Cognizant Formula One Team   1m34.736s   50
5   Alexander Albon   THA   Williams Racing   1m35.070s   104
6   Lando Norris   GBR   McLaren F1 Team   1m35.356s   50
7   Valtteri Bottas   FIN   Alfa Romeo F1 Team Orlen   1m35.495s   66
8   Sebastian Vettel   GER   Aston Martin Aramco Cognizant Formula One Team   1m35.706s   39
9   George Russell   GBR   Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team   1m35.941s   60
10   Sergio Perez   MEX   Oracle Bull Racing   1m35.977s   138
11   Lewis Hamilton   GBR   Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team   1m36.365s   62
12   Fernando Alonso   ESP   BWT Alpine F1 Team   1m36.745s   24
13   Esteban Ocon   FRA   BWT Alpine F1 Team   1m36.768s   42
14   Guanyu Zhou   CHN   Alfa Romeo F1 Team Orlen   1m37.164s   54
15   Pietro Fittipaldi   BRA   Haas F1 Team   1m37.422s   47


Source: https://www.crash.net/f1/results/998038/1/2022-bahrain-f1-test-day-1-thursday-lap-times-final


I get it, this was the strategy of the Mercedes, to get the secret car on the second week, it is the second time they did it also in 2020.

But isn't to risky? I mean they already lost 1 week of tests in this car.

Yep, I'd definitely agree with that. The only thing you can reliably tell from testing is that if a car is only doing a few laps and then spending most of the time in the garage, then they have problems. For the others, they have various different tyres, various different fuel loads, various set-ups, etc... it's impossible to tell who is fastest. And those who think they might be fastest will always be sand-bagging anyway. I mean, Mercedes were even hiding their true car, the one they had at the first test is nothing like this new one!


F1 is supposed to be all about making the fastest cars. It's disappointing that whenever someone comes up with some crazy innovative new design, all the other teams are shouting "Hey! We didn't think of doing that, so it's not fair and against the rules!". I mean, FFS, we don't even know if the new Merc design is faster or not, the mere fact that it's different and maybe faster is enough to have others crying about it. And this isn't me having a go at Horner, if it was a Red Bull with that design I'm sure Wolff would be complaining just as much. We should be celebrating these creative interpretations, not trying to get anything new banned... particularly as this new Merc design was apparently made after they consulted with the FIA to make sure it would be permitted.

Anyway, the new Merc car has caused a bit of discussion about previous crazy cars, and today I've seen images of this absolutely insane 1977 Tyrell F1 car. A bit before my time, but that really is some creative thinking!

^  Lap times as of 6pm Bahrain time show Albon still at second place but a tad under double the number of laps at 104 and with Lance Stroll at third with just 33 laps.

https://www.crash.net/f1/results/998022/1/2022-bahrain-f1-test-day-1-thursday-lap-times-6pm

Just by looking at it, I'm pretty sure it isn't indicative of what the grid would be during a real race.  I think Cnut237 agree with me in that number of laps is more important during testing as it shows consistency and that the car doesn't much quirks in them.

And just read that there were talks going around that Horner said Merc's side pods are in violation of the rules.  Lolol.  These are just mind games imho.

The new Mercedes is unique for sure but it will fast/faster than the other cars? Who knows. Bigger cars can use more air to its advantage.

1   Charles Leclerc   MON   Scuderia Ferrari   1m34.531s   64
2   Alexander Albon   THA   Williams Racing   1m35.070s   53
3   Sebastian Vettel   GER   Aston Martin Aramco Cognizant Formula One Team   1m35.706s   38
4   Sergio Perez   MEX   Oracle Bull Racing   1m35.977s   69
5   Lewis Hamilton   GBR   Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team   1m36.365s   62
6   Esteban Ocon   FRA   BWT Alpine F1 Team   1m36.768s   42
7   Guanyu Zhou   CHN   Alfa Romeo F1 Team Orlen   1m37.164s   54
8   Lando Norris   GBR   McLaren F1 Team   1m37.580s   21
9   Pierre Gasly   FRA   Scuderia AlphaTauri   1m37.888s   44

Morning times, Haas got a problem with their transfer logistics and they lost the morning, they asked if they can do a test Sunday to recover their loss.

Source: https://www.crash.net/f1/results/997965/1/2022-bahrain-f1-test-day-1-thursday-lap-times-2pm

Yep. Lots of noise about the crazy new Mercedes side-pods. The BBC are calling it a "remarkable piece of engineering".

Also a rumour doing the rounds (same link as above) that Horner has compained that the Merc innovation is "a step too far. That does not correspond to the spirit of the regulations. For us, these wings are illegal." ... but Red Bull are now saying they never said any such thing... glad to see the new season starts with the usual controversy!

But apparently the FIA has looked at the new Merc design and said it's okay and within the rules.

Many teams will be pleased to hear that the Formula 1 minimum weight has been raised by 3 kg (Total 798kg). It has not been officially announced yet, but the minimum weight is to be raised because of the following points:

- 1 kg for the new and now somewhat heavier tyres/rims
- 1 kg for the wheel covers
- 1 kg for the additional modifications to prevent porpoising.

Most teams are a bit too heavy, especially the RedBull is supposed to be very heavy this year.

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-il-peso-minimo-cresce-solo-di-3-kg-scelta-di-compromesso/8784054/
https://www.motorsport-total.com/formel-1/news/kurzfristig-vor-saisonstart-formel-1-hebt-mindestgewicht-leicht-an-22030906

20 racers are ready to parade in Jakarta on March 16, bro.

The event will start and end at the Merdeka Palace. President Jokowi will welcome them at the Palace, then will join the ride with the racers
^{Source: https://www.instagram.com/p/Ca2ICHGvpVo/}

But I don't know what the purpose of the parade is so there are twenty racers who want to do it on March 16, 2022 and I also see that the asphalting of the Mandalika circuit has also been completely completed.