ODI cricket and general cricketing discussion [self - mod] - page 845.

MatthewLM

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Quote from: BobK71 on September 17, 2022, 08:51:08 AM

Quote from: barbara44 on September 17, 2022, 01:02:24 AM

Quote from: eaLiTy on September 16, 2022, 02:07:56 PM

Quote from: Sithara007 on September 16, 2022, 01:21:16 PM

Problem is not just with the number of teams. What is the point in having teams such as Oman and UAE which are entirely made up of foreigners? Already India and Pakistan are taking part in the world cup. There is no need to have additional teams, which are entirely made up of nationals from these countries. If countries such as Oman can't include citizens in their squad, then they should not participate in ICC tournaments.

Why does it matter if the teams from UAE, Oman are filled with players from other countries, if they can build a good team and are competitive they will be playing. If you are applying this standard then you need to say that Andrew Strauss, Andy Flower, Grand Flower, Kevin Pietersen should have played only for South Africa and Imran Tahir and Sikandar Raza should play for Pakistan and Andrew Symonds should only play for England.

The reason they are not including their local talents is because they are not interested in playing Cricket nor good enough to play for the national team and if they can assemble a good team, they should participate in any tournament.

Mate, I think you are missing something and not trying to understand main point which is talk able here if any team having three or four players it's not issue but if you are not able to have any player from native country than what is point of having team from this country and as you give example of many players these all done good jobs in domestic set up and then have citizenship which is a good way for playing into this country but here teams like Oman, UAE, Kuwait and Bahrain having no native player and mostly players are coming from subcontinent and playing for them which is not acceptable and it's also against the rules of Olympics Committee.

If these Gulf region teams want to stay in then surely they need to have grass root links with their native players and bring them in main stream which is a good way for having quality game and better results otherwise teams like Nepal and Kenya will struggle and have no enough sources for competing with them on field.

Cricket does not only refer to winning or losing through the game. It can also be identified as a part of a country's culture. It represents a country. For example, today India is easily known by the people of the cricket world and when a big tournament is organized then the organization of the people of that country, all kinds of things come up to the people of the whole world. From this point of view it is better to represent cricket through a country's own players.

Yes I think you are right there are some countries which are not well known to people the only way to highlight these countries is through sports but many countries have become known in many places we have seen that many countries players name their country first because of many names. And there are many that emerge through sports that emerge here as we see them

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Quote from: barbara44 on September 17, 2022, 01:02:24 AM

Quote from: eaLiTy on September 16, 2022, 02:07:56 PM

Quote from: Sithara007 on September 16, 2022, 01:21:16 PM

Problem is not just with the number of teams. What is the point in having teams such as Oman and UAE which are entirely made up of foreigners? Already India and Pakistan are taking part in the world cup. There is no need to have additional teams, which are entirely made up of nationals from these countries. If countries such as Oman can't include citizens in their squad, then they should not participate in ICC tournaments.

Why does it matter if the teams from UAE, Oman are filled with players from other countries, if they can build a good team and are competitive they will be playing. If you are applying this standard then you need to say that Andrew Strauss, Andy Flower, Grand Flower, Kevin Pietersen should have played only for South Africa and Imran Tahir and Sikandar Raza should play for Pakistan and Andrew Symonds should only play for England.

The reason they are not including their local talents is because they are not interested in playing Cricket nor good enough to play for the national team and if they can assemble a good team, they should participate in any tournament.

Mate, I think you are missing something and not trying to understand main point which is talk able here if any team having three or four players it's not issue but if you are not able to have any player from native country than what is point of having team from this country and as you give example of many players these all done good jobs in domestic set up and then have citizenship which is a good way for playing into this country but here teams like Oman, UAE, Kuwait and Bahrain having no native player and mostly players are coming from subcontinent and playing for them which is not acceptable and it's also against the rules of Olympics Committee.

If these Gulf region teams want to stay in then surely they need to have grass root links with their native players and bring them in main stream which is a good way for having quality game and better results otherwise teams like Nepal and Kenya will struggle and have no enough sources for competing with them on field.

Cricket does not only refer to winning or losing through the game. It can also be identified as a part of a country's culture. It represents a country. For example, today India is easily known by the people of the cricket world and when a big tournament is organized then the organization of the people of that country, all kinds of things come up to the people of the whole world. From this point of view it is better to represent cricket through a country's own players.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on September 15, 2022, 08:49:04 PM

Quote from: Tony116 on September 15, 2022, 07:10:59 PM

I really don't understand why we are having a world cup with only 10 teams and why the smaller teams are not being given enough chances to show their talent?

In 2007, the ICC did give them a chance to take part in the 2007 World Cup, but that event failed to generate enough revenue to justify the idea, and so they dropped the idea. However, I believe that right now that's exactly what cricket needs right now. There is no doubt that cricket will be a lot more exciting if they give enough opportunities to the smaller teams right now. Since T20 is a much more unpredictable game, at least I expected that a lot more teams would take part in the T20 world cup.

Back in 2007, they had 4 groups of 4 teams each. That gave 3 guaranteed matches for each team in the first phase. But the problem is that both India and Pakistan were kicked out in the first phase itself and the tournament became a disaster for the ICC (in terms of revenue). So they went back to the old formula of allowing only the top teams. Ireland became a victim of their own success and never again participated in a world cup after 2015. ICC should probably go with 14 teams (7x2) in the first phase, which would give 6 guaranteed matches for each team.

I really don't understand. Yes, India and Pakistan got kicked out of the tournament early, so what?
That is like directly saying that if India and Pakistan are out of the world cup there is no point in having a World Cup.

That directly means ICC is not going to give the smaller teams a good enough chance to prove themselves. The first couple of times it was going to be a bad thing for ICC in terms of revenue. But with a lot of teams being interested in the smaller formats of cricket, I think this is the right time for ICC should think about the future of this game. And with a lot of rich countries participating I don't think ICC will have to worry too much about the revenue.

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Quote from: eaLiTy on September 16, 2022, 02:07:56 PM

Quote from: Sithara007 on September 16, 2022, 01:21:16 PM

Problem is not just with the number of teams. What is the point in having teams such as Oman and UAE which are entirely made up of foreigners? Already India and Pakistan are taking part in the world cup. There is no need to have additional teams, which are entirely made up of nationals from these countries. If countries such as Oman can't include citizens in their squad, then they should not participate in ICC tournaments.

Why does it matter if the teams from UAE, Oman are filled with players from other countries, if they can build a good team and are competitive they will be playing. If you are applying this standard then you need to say that Andrew Strauss, Andy Flower, Grand Flower, Kevin Pietersen should have played only for South Africa and Imran Tahir and Sikandar Raza should play for Pakistan and Andrew Symonds should only play for England.

The reason they are not including their local talents is because they are not interested in playing Cricket nor good enough to play for the national team and if they can assemble a good team, they should participate in any tournament.

Mate, I think you are missing something and not trying to understand main point which is talk able here if any team having three or four players it's not issue but if you are not able to have any player from native country than what is point of having team from this country and as you give example of many players these all done good jobs in domestic set up and then have citizenship which is a good way for playing into this country but here teams like Oman, UAE, Kuwait and Bahrain having no native player and mostly players are coming from subcontinent and playing for them which is not acceptable and it's also against the rules of Olympics Committee.

If these Gulf region teams want to stay in then surely they need to have grass root links with their native players and bring them in main stream which is a good way for having quality game and better results otherwise teams like Nepal and Kenya will struggle and have no enough sources for competing with them on field.

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In some games we see there are some teams who will win the match 100 percent sure but they lose but the reason they lose is because of their own failure they lose the match most of the times I see but they lose the match because of them I would say they If they want to perform well, they need to practice well

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Quote from: eaLiTy on September 16, 2022, 02:07:56 PM

Quote from: Sithara007 on September 16, 2022, 01:21:16 PM

Problem is not just with the number of teams. What is the point in having teams such as Oman and UAE which are entirely made up of foreigners? Already India and Pakistan are taking part in the world cup. There is no need to have additional teams, which are entirely made up of nationals from these countries. If countries such as Oman can't include citizens in their squad, then they should not participate in ICC tournaments.

Why does it matter if the teams from UAE, Oman are filled with players from other countries, if they can build a good team and are competitive they will be playing. If you are applying this standard then you need to say that Andrew Strauss, Andy Flower, Grand Flower, Kevin Pietersen should have played only for South Africa and Imran Tahir and Sikandar Raza should play for Pakistan and Andrew Symonds should only play for England.

The reason they are not including their local talents is because they are not interested in playing Cricket nor good enough to play for the national team and if they can assemble a good team, they should participate in any tournament.

For franchise leagues it is OK. The problem is with ICC tournaments. First of all, around 50% of the teams are from the South Asian region. On top of that, most of the associate nations who qualify are also made up 100% from South Asian players. When you call a competition "World" cup, there should be enough diversity. Else the interest from other parts of the world will die down and these events will get restricted to countries such as India and Pakistan. The ICC has increased number of participants to 12 teams from 2027 onwards, which is not sufficient IMO. I would have preferred 14.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on September 16, 2022, 01:21:16 PM

Problem is not just with the number of teams. What is the point in having teams such as Oman and UAE which are entirely made up of foreigners? Already India and Pakistan are taking part in the world cup. There is no need to have additional teams, which are entirely made up of nationals from these countries. If countries such as Oman can't include citizens in their squad, then they should not participate in ICC tournaments.

Why does it matter if the teams from UAE, Oman are filled with players from other countries, if they can build a good team and are competitive they will be playing. If you are applying this standard then you need to say that Andrew Strauss, Andy Flower, Grand Flower, Kevin Pietersen should have played only for South Africa and Imran Tahir and Sikandar Raza should play for Pakistan and Andrew Symonds should only play for England.

The reason they are not including their local talents is because they are not interested in playing Cricket nor good enough to play for the national team and if they can assemble a good team, they should participate in any tournament.

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Quote from: dezoel on September 16, 2022, 12:41:04 PM

~~~~
I believe they can go with 20 teams in t20i world cup 16 teams in ODI and 12 teams in test matches with two groups as now this is surely not suitable game for many countries.

Problem is not just with the number of teams. What is the point in having teams such as Oman and UAE which are entirely made up of foreigners? Already India and Pakistan are taking part in the world cup. There is no need to have additional teams, which are entirely made up of nationals from these countries. If countries such as Oman can't include citizens in their squad, then they should not participate in ICC tournaments.

And regarding the number of teams, I would like to have the following formula:

T20 World Cup: 20 teams (4 groups of 5 teams)
ODI World Cup: 16 teams (4 groups of 4 teams, or 2 groups of 8 teams)
Test: 15 teams with 3 divisions of five each

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Quote from: crunck on September 15, 2022, 07:52:50 AM

I also agree with you that the ICC World Cup should consist of more teams than it does it now. I think that ICC is getting revenue hungry as you said which might hurt cricket in general in the longer run. I think the world cup should consist associate Nations as well so that it becomes more competitive and interesting for the viewers. Also I really want to see South Africa complete in the world cup and it is going to be very sad if they don't qualify for that.

Quality is big concern otherwise ICC can go with good number of teams in their mega events like FIFA is increasing their number of teams in World Cup from 32 to 48 as they have good system, and they can manage this all with their own way which allow them for having things like this settled easily but here in cricket things are not going like many other sports organizations which is surely hurting beauty of this game.

Specially due to greediness now they are cutting funds for associate countries, and they have no check and balance system which provide good use of their funds for this game from every country sadly right now quality is declined in many big countries as well, so we can't expect good from things which are going to work under ICC.
I believe they can go with 20 teams in t20i world cup 16 teams in ODI and 12 teams in test matches with two groups as now this is surely not suitable game for many countries.

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Quote from: Tony116 on September 15, 2022, 07:10:59 PM

I really don't understand why we are having a world cup with only 10 teams and why the smaller teams are not being given enough chances to show their talent?

In 2007, the ICC did give them a chance to take part in the 2007 World Cup, but that event failed to generate enough revenue to justify the idea, and so they dropped the idea. However, I believe that right now that's exactly what cricket needs right now. There is no doubt that cricket will be a lot more exciting if they give enough opportunities to the smaller teams right now. Since T20 is a much more unpredictable game, at least I expected that a lot more teams would take part in the T20 world cup.

Back in 2007, they had 4 groups of 4 teams each. That gave 3 guaranteed matches for each team in the first phase. But the problem is that both India and Pakistan were kicked out in the first phase itself and the tournament became a disaster for the ICC (in terms of revenue). So they went back to the old formula of allowing only the top teams. Ireland became a victim of their own success and never again participated in a world cup after 2015. ICC should probably go with 14 teams (7x2) in the first phase, which would give 6 guaranteed matches for each team.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on September 14, 2022, 09:35:40 PM

Quote from: Tony116 on September 14, 2022, 06:46:46 PM

I want to see South Africa being qualified directly for the world cup. They are still a great team and they also have a great legacy. But at the same time, they will also have to perform well. Nothing is going to be handed out for free. And I really don't understand why we are watching a "world" cup which is being played by 10-12 teams each time. I also agree that they should remove the word "world" from this tournament. This is just another cricket tournament with a bigger number of teams playing in it. The World Cup should be played with a lot more teams.

In all probability, the next "world" cup will be having 5 countries from South Asia and another 5 from other regions. So you are right. The ICC became too money minded and they wanted to keep the associate nations away from major tournaments. I would have been still OK, if they ask all the teams to qualify for the tournament. But here, 8 countries are getting automatic qualification and only two teams are coming from the qualifier tournament. In none of the other sports, we have this sort of asymmetric qualification system.

I really don't understand why we are having a world cup with only 10 teams and why the smaller teams are not being given enough chances to show their talent?

In 2007, the ICC did give them a chance to take part in the 2007 World Cup, but that event failed to generate enough revenue to justify the idea, and so they dropped the idea. However, I believe that right now that's exactly what cricket needs right now. There is no doubt that cricket will be a lot more exciting if they give enough opportunities to the smaller teams right now. Since T20 is a much more unpredictable game, at least I expected that a lot more teams would take part in the T20 world cup.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on September 14, 2022, 09:35:40 PM

Quote from: Tony116 on September 14, 2022, 06:46:46 PM

I want to see South Africa being qualified directly for the world cup. They are still a great team and they also have a great legacy. But at the same time, they will also have to perform well. Nothing is going to be handed out for free. And I really don't understand why we are watching a "world" cup which is being played by 10-12 teams each time. I also agree that they should remove the word "world" from this tournament. This is just another cricket tournament with a bigger number of teams playing in it. The World Cup should be played with a lot more teams.

In all probability, the next "world" cup will be having 5 countries from South Asia and another 5 from other regions. So you are right. The ICC became too money minded and they wanted to keep the associate nations away from major tournaments. I would have been still OK, if they ask all the teams to qualify for the tournament. But here, 8 countries are getting automatic qualification and only two teams are coming from the qualifier tournament. In none of the other sports, we have this sort of asymmetric qualification system.

I also agree with you that the ICC World Cup should consist of more teams than it does it now. I think that ICC is getting revenue hungry as you said which might hurt cricket in general in the longer run. I think the world cup should consist associate Nations as well so that it becomes more competitive and interesting for the viewers. Also I really want to see South Africa complete in the world cup and it is going to be very sad if they don't qualify for that.

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Quote from: Tony116 on September 14, 2022, 06:46:46 PM

I want to see South Africa being qualified directly for the world cup. They are still a great team and they also have a great legacy. But at the same time, they will also have to perform well. Nothing is going to be handed out for free. And I really don't understand why we are watching a "world" cup which is being played by 10-12 teams each time. I also agree that they should remove the word "world" from this tournament. This is just another cricket tournament with a bigger number of teams playing in it. The World Cup should be played with a lot more teams.

In all probability, the next "world" cup will be having 5 countries from South Asia and another 5 from other regions. So you are right. The ICC became too money minded and they wanted to keep the associate nations away from major tournaments. I would have been still OK, if they ask all the teams to qualify for the tournament. But here, 8 countries are getting automatic qualification and only two teams are coming from the qualifier tournament. In none of the other sports, we have this sort of asymmetric qualification system.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on September 13, 2022, 09:08:09 PM

Quote from: Tony116 on September 13, 2022, 01:22:23 PM

Sri Lanka is going to be a very interesting team to watch in the world cup, so I am looking forward to seeing how they do. In the Asia Cup, they have shown some really good performances. There will be a lot of sadness if they are unable to qualify directly for the World Cup. As of right now, it seems as though West Indies has the best chance of qualifying directly for the World Cup. Ireland is right behind the West Indies but I don't think they will be able to give the West Indies a good fight for the direct qualifying position. As for Sri Lanka, it is just too far behind the West Indies in terms of performance. It should be West Indies in my opinion as well.

3 out of these 4 teams are tier-1 test nations and out of them only one will qualify. There will be a lot of sadness in respective territories if any of these teams fail to qualify. Sri Lanka still has a 50-50 chance. What they need is 3 wins from their next 6 matches. In that case West Indies and South Africa will fail to qualify directly. I would prefer either West Indies or South Africa, because else the 2023 World Cup will be too South Asian-centric. 5 out of the 10 participant nations will be from South Asia with sparse representation from the other continents. Then we need to remove the word "World" from the World Cup.

I want to see South Africa being qualified directly for the world cup. They are still a great team and they also have a great legacy. But at the same time, they will also have to perform well. Nothing is going to be handed out for free. And I really don't understand why we are watching a "world" cup which is being played by 10-12 teams each time. I also agree that they should remove the word "world" from this tournament. This is just another cricket tournament with a bigger number of teams playing in it. The World Cup should be played with a lot more teams.

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Quote from: Juggy777 on September 14, 2022, 07:45:49 AM

@Sithara007 even though Srilanka have won the Asia Cup, I don’t expect any sudden reversal in their ODI form and thus I feel that they won’t qualify directly. Furthermore I want South Africa to qualify, because they can cause some upset's in the tournament hence I’ll be really upset if they fail to qualify directly, and you’re right too many South Asian team’s may make the World Cup boring to watch.

South Africa has the maximum number of matches remaining (eight), but they also need the maximum number of points. Apart from the two matches against Netherlands, the remaining matches are against tough opponents (India and England). And they need a minimum of 4 wins (probably 5 wins, in case Sri Lanka ends up with 92 points). That means 3 wins from 6 matches against India/England. Not impossible, but it is going to be tough. And in case rain washes away any of their matches against Netherlands, then they will be in deep trouble.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on September 13, 2022, 09:08:09 PM

Quote from: Tony116 on September 13, 2022, 01:22:23 PM

Sri Lanka is going to be a very interesting team to watch in the world cup, so I am looking forward to seeing how they do. In the Asia Cup, they have shown some really good performances. There will be a lot of sadness if they are unable to qualify directly for the World Cup. As of right now, it seems as though West Indies has the best chance of qualifying directly for the World Cup. Ireland is right behind the West Indies but I don't think they will be able to give the West Indies a good fight for the direct qualifying position. As for Sri Lanka, it is just too far behind the West Indies in terms of performance. It should be West Indies in my opinion as well.

3 out of these 4 teams are tier-1 test nations and out of them only one will qualify. There will be a lot of sadness in respective territories if any of these teams fail to qualify. Sri Lanka still has a 50-50 chance. What they need is 3 wins from their next 6 matches. In that case West Indies and South Africa will fail to qualify directly. I would prefer either West Indies or South Africa, because else the 2023 World Cup will be too South Asian-centric. 5 out of the 10 participant nations will be from South Asia with sparse representation from the other continents. Then we need to remove the word "World" from the World Cup.

@Sithara007 even though Srilanka have won the Asia Cup, I don’t expect any sudden reversal in their ODI form and thus I feel that they won’t qualify directly. Furthermore I want South Africa to qualify, because they can cause some upset's in the tournament hence I’ll be really upset if they fail to qualify directly, and you’re right too many South Asian team’s may make the World Cup boring to watch.

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Quote from: Tony116 on September 13, 2022, 01:22:23 PM

Sri Lanka is going to be a very interesting team to watch in the world cup, so I am looking forward to seeing how they do. In the Asia Cup, they have shown some really good performances. There will be a lot of sadness if they are unable to qualify directly for the World Cup. As of right now, it seems as though West Indies has the best chance of qualifying directly for the World Cup. Ireland is right behind the West Indies but I don't think they will be able to give the West Indies a good fight for the direct qualifying position. As for Sri Lanka, it is just too far behind the West Indies in terms of performance. It should be West Indies in my opinion as well.

3 out of these 4 teams are tier-1 test nations and out of them only one will qualify. There will be a lot of sadness in respective territories if any of these teams fail to qualify. Sri Lanka still has a 50-50 chance. What they need is 3 wins from their next 6 matches. In that case West Indies and South Africa will fail to qualify directly. I would prefer either West Indies or South Africa, because else the 2023 World Cup will be too South Asian-centric. 5 out of the 10 participant nations will be from South Asia with sparse representation from the other continents. Then we need to remove the word "World" from the World Cup.

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Quote from: Rigon on September 09, 2022, 02:18:32 PM

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I think it is up to me whether New Zealand can do anything like that now. If they try to play a little bit better then they can do it. They will have to struggle a lot for that. But I think batting and bowling both play an equal role in winning a match for a team. I think so. I think Australia and New Zealand are two very strong teams. Both teams have good batting and bowling.

At the moment, New Zealand and Australia teams are almost equal in quality. Both teams have a lot of talented and experienced players. New Zealand lost the first two matches. The main reason for this was the performance of their batsmen was not good. Australia set a target of only 196 runs in the second match. Still New Zealand could not win. If the New Zealand batsmen can play well in the third match, they will win. But if the batsmen are not able to play well in the last match then Australia will win the last match easily. But my guess is that New Zealand will come back in the truck in the last match.

Yes you are right. New Zealand and Australia game will be a very tight fight. I think maybe New Zealand will win this match. Because of that New Zealand players play a bit better. If Australia try to play well then nothing can be said until the match is over. Both teams will try hard to win the match. So we have to wait to see who can win the match.

New Zealand and Australia can perform very well in both teams.We have seen Australia and New Zealand play before but they can put up a great performance.Especially Australia at one time but a lot of discussion and cricket they could shape in their own hands.Currently, Australia may not be as good as it used to be, but still it can perform fairly well But let's see how well they can perform on the field.

I think Australia can get back to their previous position with hard preparation. They used to play very well. Australia's match needs to be re-arranged but I think the confidence and preparation of the players is the capital.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on September 12, 2022, 08:11:01 PM

I was looking at the 2020–2023 ICC Cricket World Cup Super League points table. With the recent whitewash against New Zealand, now Australia is at the second position with 120 points. Bangladesh has been pushed to the third position, with England on top. Qualification scenarios remain the same. 7 of the direct qualification slots are already decided. And as of now, a total of 4 countries are fighting for the sole remaining position - West Indies, Ireland, Sri Lanka and South Africa. As per my understanding, West Indies has the maximum chances.

Sri Lanka is going to be a very interesting team to watch in the world cup, so I am looking forward to seeing how they do. In the Asia Cup, they have shown some really good performances. There will be a lot of sadness if they are unable to qualify directly for the World Cup. As of right now, it seems as though West Indies has the best chance of qualifying directly for the World Cup. Ireland is right behind the West Indies but I don't think they will be able to give the West Indies a good fight for the direct qualifying position. As for Sri Lanka, it is just too far behind the West Indies in terms of performance. It should be West Indies in my opinion as well.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on September 12, 2022, 08:11:01 PM

I was looking at the 2020–2023 ICC Cricket World Cup Super League points table. With the recent whitewash against New Zealand, now Australia is at the second position with 120 points. Bangladesh has been pushed to the third position, with England on top. Qualification scenarios remain the same. 7 of the direct qualification slots are already decided. And as of now, a total of 4 countries are fighting for the sole remaining position - West Indies, Ireland, Sri Lanka and South Africa. As per my understanding, West Indies has the maximum chances.

Disappointing performance from Newzealand in last odi series, with such performance they deserve a whitewash. Australia have the capability to bounce back even from number 8 batsmen as we saw in second odi where starc, zampa and Hazelwood scored runs to give some hope for the bowlers.

Topic: ODI cricket and general cricketing discussion [self - mod] - page 845. (Read 171179 times)