ODI cricket and general cricketing discussion [self - mod] - page 891.

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Quote from: minairia3 on April 21, 2022, 09:13:18 AM

Probably the Arabs don't see it that way because certainly, they don't want to risk facing a humiliation like that again in my opinion. That's why they are not making the team with native players.
But, I don't understand the point of making a whole team with all the foreigners because it is not making their country proud in my opinion. I guess they are more interested in money rather than Pride.

Here is no matter of humiliation because if they started from grassroots then surely they can be done some better job but here matter is just motivation and better finances for local players which is not available in cricket but having some good in other sports as many leagues are giving some good facilities for them.

Just start from schools and then settle things with domestic levels, and they can do these in very better way with the latest technology and better facilities which help them for better growth.

If players do some good practices then surely they can avoid this humiliation and perform very good on all levels practices makes perfect, it's simple rule in life and sports. In GCC youths are not bad enough just Kuwait was out of practice, and they face result like this otherwise they can perform better than this result.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on April 21, 2022, 10:45:14 AM

Not just with football, but with every sport other than cricket. None of the other sports allow foreigners to represent a "national" team. In case of sports like basketball, they even have a condition that there should be only one naturalized citizen in the entire squad and the remaining members should be born as citizens of that particular country. And then in cricket we have a bunch of Indians claiming that they are Qataris and a bunch of Pakistanis claiming that they are Romanians. Just makes cricket a laughing stock in front of the global sports lovers.

Cricket no doubt has become a joke because of such hilarious policies from ICC. Teams from USA, Canada, UAE are 100% made up of expats while teams with native players are suffering. I wish some icc official can read this thread and see what ordinary cricket enthusiasts think about icc policies.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on April 21, 2022, 10:45:14 AM

Quote from: coinism on April 21, 2022, 06:58:57 AM

In UAE total population is just 20% rest are all expats. Arabs do nothing by themselves rather outsource all there work to expats. But this is not the case with football as fifa don't allow such funny things. In fifa world cup KSA team is composed to 100% native people. Its only in cricket such fun is going on.

Not just with football, but with every sport other than cricket. None of the other sports allow foreigners to represent a "national" team. In case of sports like basketball, they even have a condition that there should be only one naturalized citizen in the entire squad and the remaining members should be born as citizens of that particular country. And then in cricket we have a bunch of Indians claiming that they are Qataris and a bunch of Pakistanis claiming that they are Romanians. Just makes cricket a laughing stock in front of the global sports lovers.

As far as I know with all the other sports the players have to get the citizenship of a country to actually represent that country in any international stage of any sports.
So, I don't know why I see they have not looked into this matter and made some rules about solving this. I know that they are getting quite a lot of money from those countries and they don't want any trouble in my opinion. But an international team cannot just be made out of all foreigners and not even one native player.

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Quote from: coinism on April 21, 2022, 06:58:57 AM

In UAE total population is just 20% rest are all expats. Arabs do nothing by themselves rather outsource all there work to expats. But this is not the case with football as fifa don't allow such funny things. In fifa world cup KSA team is composed to 100% native people. Its only in cricket such fun is going on.

Not just with football, but with every sport other than cricket. None of the other sports allow foreigners to represent a "national" team. In case of sports like basketball, they even have a condition that there should be only one naturalized citizen in the entire squad and the remaining members should be born as citizens of that particular country. And then in cricket we have a bunch of Indians claiming that they are Qataris and a bunch of Pakistanis claiming that they are Romanians. Just makes cricket a laughing stock in front of the global sports lovers.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on April 20, 2022, 09:58:58 PM

Quote from: coinism on April 20, 2022, 12:13:34 AM

Quote from: Sithara007 on April 19, 2022, 10:12:09 PM

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/asian-games-men-s-cricket-competition-2014-15-777895/bangladesh-vs-kuwait-4th-quarter-final-778035/full-scorecard

This is scorecard from 2014 match and the whole Kuwait team (mostly native players) got out on just 21 runs. I don't think these players have any interest in cricket may be they were just sent to have fun. If these players have any passion for cricket they should have avoid this humiliation, there is very little interest of cricket in native citizens of GCC.

Why should anyone play cricket, if they don't have any interest? I don't want to make assumptions. Yes.. they got out for just 21 runs. But for most of the players, it was their first international cricket match. The test nations are not much better either? Remember the match between West Indies and England in 2019, when the former got blown away for just 45 runs? They can improve their game only with more experience and we should not judge them based on just one match. Getting out for 21 runs, with a team that is 100% Arab is more preferable than scoring 210 runs with a team that is comprised entirely of foreigners.

Probably the Arabs don't see it that way because certainly, they don't want to risk facing a humiliation like that again in my opinion. That's why they are not making the team with native players.
But, I don't understand the point of making a whole team with all the foreigners because it is not making their country proud in my opinion. I guess they are more interested in money rather than Pride.

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Quote from: minairia3 on April 20, 2022, 09:44:15 AM

In my opinion, there could be another reason why this is happening. The people in Arab are really fond of ease and they are someone who will try to gain money by making or letting someone else play rather than playing by themselves. And when better players are playing in the field there will be a lot more revenue generated. I really think ICC should make some rules about this situation otherwise a lot of countries that genuinely have some talent might just not make it.

It is more important for ICC to create interest in people about cricket because cricket is certainly losing its popularity day by day and if the countries which have enough money to play foreign players in their country are just going to do the same thing I think the popularity might just be decreasing.

In UAE total population is just 20% rest are all expats. Arabs do nothing by themselves rather outsource all there work to expats. But this is not the case with football as fifa don't allow such funny things. In fifa world cup KSA team is composed to 100% native people. Its only in cricket such fun is going on.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on April 20, 2022, 09:58:58 PM

Why should anyone play cricket, if they don't have any interest? I don't want to make assumptions. Yes.. they got out for just 21 runs. But for most of the players, it was their first international cricket match. The test nations are not much better either? Remember the match between West Indies and England in 2019, when the former got blown away for just 45 runs? They can improve their game only with more experience and we should not judge them based on just one match. Getting out for 21 runs, with a team that is 100% Arab is more preferable than scoring 210 runs with a team that is comprised entirely of foreigners.

That's what icc needs to think which they are not. There are teams like Uganda also which have 100% native players, icc must give more funds to such associate teams rather then wasting money on team of expats. Countries with team of expats are rich and influential that's why icc don't bother much about this aspect.

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Quote from: coinism on April 20, 2022, 12:13:34 AM

Quote from: Sithara007 on April 19, 2022, 10:12:09 PM

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/asian-games-men-s-cricket-competition-2014-15-777895/bangladesh-vs-kuwait-4th-quarter-final-778035/full-scorecard

This is scorecard from 2014 match and the whole Kuwait team (mostly native players) got out on just 21 runs. I don't think these players have any interest in cricket may be they were just sent to have fun. If these players have any passion for cricket they should have avoid this humiliation, there is very little interest of cricket in native citizens of GCC.

Why should anyone play cricket, if they don't have any interest? I don't want to make assumptions. Yes.. they got out for just 21 runs. But for most of the players, it was their first international cricket match. The test nations are not much better either? Remember the match between West Indies and England in 2019, when the former got blown away for just 45 runs? They can improve their game only with more experience and we should not judge them based on just one match. Getting out for 21 runs, with a team that is 100% Arab is more preferable than scoring 210 runs with a team that is comprised entirely of foreigners.

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Quote from: Juggy777 on April 20, 2022, 07:51:57 AM

Quote from: Sithara007 on April 19, 2022, 10:12:09 PM

Quote from: jostorres on April 19, 2022, 04:05:01 PM

Recently workers from subcontinent are doing very good for cricket in the Middle East but still it's not going to be had some good result from local peoples because they have not interest like they are going into soccer.

There are native players in GCC nations as well, but they get overlooked due to influx of experienced players from South Asia. An example of a GCC nation playing with 100% citizens can be found here:
https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/asian-games-men-s-cricket-competition-2014-15-777895/bangladesh-vs-kuwait-4th-quarter-final-778035/full-scorecard
As you can see, all of their players were native Arabs. So it is not impossible to find native players to represent these countries. But the ICC criteria allows teams to be made of 100% foreigners, and the funding is based on how the team performs at international level. If the performance is weak, then the team will be left with hardly any funds (similar to the case with Nepal or PNG).

Quote from: coinism on April 20, 2022, 12:13:34 AM

This is scorecard from 2014 match and the whole Kuwait team (mostly native players) got out on just 21 runs. I don't think these players have any interest in cricket may be they were just sent to have fun. If these players have any passion for cricket they should have avoid this humiliation, there is very little interest of cricket in native citizens of GCC.

@Sithara007 I wasn’t even aware of this rule, and never heard of this match before which shows how little importance this team got. @coinism you’re right maybe those player’s didn’t really have any interest back then, but in the long run I hope that they’ll make a concrete effort to take part in big tournaments and cause some upsets by beating the big teams.

In my opinion, there could be another reason why this is happening. The people in Arab are really fond of ease and they are someone who will try to gain money by making or letting someone else play rather than playing by themselves. And when better players are playing in the field there will be a lot more revenue generated. I really think ICC should make some rules about this situation otherwise a lot of countries that genuinely have some talent might just not make it.

It is more important for ICC to create interest in people about cricket because cricket is certainly losing its popularity day by day and if the countries which have enough money to play foreign players in their country are just going to do the same thing I think the popularity might just be decreasing.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on April 19, 2022, 10:12:09 PM

Quote from: jostorres on April 19, 2022, 04:05:01 PM

Recently workers from subcontinent are doing very good for cricket in the Middle East but still it's not going to be had some good result from local peoples because they have not interest like they are going into soccer.

There are native players in GCC nations as well, but they get overlooked due to influx of experienced players from South Asia. An example of a GCC nation playing with 100% citizens can be found here:

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/asian-games-men-s-cricket-competition-2014-15-777895/bangladesh-vs-kuwait-4th-quarter-final-778035/full-scorecard

As you can see, all of their players were native Arabs. So it is not impossible to find native players to represent these countries. But the ICC criteria allows teams to be made of 100% foreigners, and the funding is based on how the team performs at international level. If the performance is weak, then the team will be left with hardly any funds (similar to the case with Nepal or PNG).

Quote from: coinism on April 20, 2022, 12:13:34 AM

This is scorecard from 2014 match and the whole Kuwait team (mostly native players) got out on just 21 runs. I don't think these players have any interest in cricket may be they were just sent to have fun. If these players have any passion for cricket they should have avoid this humiliation, there is very little interest of cricket in native citizens of GCC.

@Sithara007 I wasn’t even aware of this rule, and never heard of this match before which shows how little importance this team got. @coinism you’re right maybe those player’s didn’t really have any interest back then, but in the long run I hope that they’ll make a concrete effort to take part in big tournaments and cause some upsets by beating the big teams.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on April 19, 2022, 10:12:09 PM

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/asian-games-men-s-cricket-competition-2014-15-777895/bangladesh-vs-kuwait-4th-quarter-final-778035/full-scorecard

This is scorecard from 2014 match and the whole Kuwait team (mostly native players) got out on just 21 runs. I don't think these players have any interest in cricket may be they were just sent to have fun. If these players have any passion for cricket they should have avoid this humiliation, there is very little interest of cricket in native citizens of GCC.

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Quote from: jostorres on April 19, 2022, 04:05:01 PM

Recently workers from subcontinent are doing very good for cricket in the Middle East but still it's not going to be had some good result from local peoples because they have not interest like they are going into soccer.

There are native players in GCC nations as well, but they get overlooked due to influx of experienced players from South Asia. An example of a GCC nation playing with 100% citizens can be found here:

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/asian-games-men-s-cricket-competition-2014-15-777895/bangladesh-vs-kuwait-4th-quarter-final-778035/full-scorecard

As you can see, all of their players were native Arabs. So it is not impossible to find native players to represent these countries. But the ICC criteria allows teams to be made of 100% foreigners, and the funding is based on how the team performs at international level. If the performance is weak, then the team will be left with hardly any funds (similar to the case with Nepal or PNG).

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Quote from: blatchcorn on April 19, 2022, 03:00:36 AM

One reason is that cricket is not liked by majority of the world, this is clear from participation of countries in cricket. Test and ODI take too much time to complete that's why people don't like it. T20 is exciting but it will take some time. Only people migrating from south Asia are introducing cricket to country where they are migrating.

There is no doubt now with the introduction of T10 and T20 cricket is taking some good intention around the world, and they need to act quickly for his popularity and need to bring some good and solid rules as well, but sadly ICC has never been good place for these things they have their own agenda, and they are doing things just for this. As right now adopted player's problem is going if they have not acted like they need to do this then surely they will miss a bright opportunity once again, and we will have no good results from these franchise and these short formats which must for better and good future of the game of cricket.

Recently workers from subcontinent are doing very good for cricket in the Middle East but still it's not going to be had some good result from local peoples because they have not interest like they are going into soccer.

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Quote from: barbara44 on April 18, 2022, 04:53:51 PM

Quote from: laurenB7742 on April 18, 2022, 01:00:36 PM

And the bigger problem is ICC is not going to do anything that takes away the supply of money. I am quite sure that these teams which play with a lot of outsiders have really good enough money to give ICC and it will be a big loss for ICC to make any rules against them.

So, I don't think we are going to get any clear-cut solution for this problem and the smaller teams are surely going to suffer from this.

You are right about ICC and their way of work they have never been helpful for countries with native talent because they feel it needs some good funds which are not available and on other side GCC countries are enough rich, and they are investing funds for this and having players from subcontinent and other developing countries which are helping them for their representation into ICC events.

Sometime back there was a suggestion that fix number of players from other countries and support native players for every country but this all fail because ICC need money, and it's only available for them from GCC which is very important, so this suggestion was also scraped most chances we will never have any solution for this and these countries will take good advantage of this all.

ICC is not the best sports body. at least they haven't done anything for us to believe that they are.
The situation that ICC is in right now also considering the situation of cricket around the whole world, I really don't think that it is going to change. Because obviously for something to change there needs to be some discussion about it by the top cricket playing Nations and I don't think they are going to do something like that because they are heavily favored by the ICC.
Unless people start thinking about actual cricket I don't think anything is going to change.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on April 18, 2022, 08:51:04 PM

Quote from: Maidak on April 17, 2022, 09:43:00 AM

There could be a situation where a player wants to play cricket for his national team but it is not going to be good enough to play for India, Bangladesh, or Pakistan. So maybe he can see this as an opportunity for himself to play cricket professionally even though he knows that the same is not going to be there. so probably some people might take a chance in this way and the people living in these countries have some good general ideas about how to play cricket so they don't have to struggle too much in there.

If an Indian or Pakistani player is not fortunate enough to get selected for his national team, then he always have the option of playing for some of the franchise T20 teams that are located outside his country. The solution is not to play for another national team. Right now, more than 50% of the "national" teams in cricket are entirely made up of foreigners (especially those in Europe and the GCC region). Obviously the player always has the option of undergoing naturalization and getting the passport from his newly adopted country. But for that he need to wait for a few years. Those who play for GCC right now doesn't even have a valid visa.

That has to be taken care of by the management, right?

But, I think there might be a problem because I am quite sure that ICC gets good enough money from these countries and I don't think they are going to risk not getting that money by making some new rules about it.

I really don't like the idea of making the whole team with foreigners, because that means if you have the money you are going to be able to do almost anything, and that shouldn't be the case because you should be able to get good enough players in your own country. having the whole team built up with foreigners just takes away the idea of scouting and building up any young players.

Quote from: blatchcorn on April 19, 2022, 03:00:36 AM

Quote from: Sithara007 on April 18, 2022, 08:51:04 PM

snip

One reason is that cricket is not liked by majority of the world, this is clear from participation of countries in cricket. Test and ODI take too much time to complete that's why people don't like it. T20 is exciting but it will take some time. Only people migrating from south Asia are introducing cricket to country where they are migrating.

It's not about cricket being liked or not, we know that a lot of countries in the world are still living under the poverty line. And we all know that cricket does cost a fair amount of money and I think that might it cause some problems.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on April 18, 2022, 08:51:04 PM

If an Indian or Pakistani player is not fortunate enough to get selected for his national team, then he always have the option of playing for some of the franchise T20 teams that are located outside his country. The solution is not to play for another national team. Right now, more than 50% of the "national" teams in cricket are entirely made up of foreigners (especially those in Europe and the GCC region). Obviously the player always has the option of undergoing naturalization and getting the passport from his newly adopted country. But for that he need to wait for a few years. Those who play for GCC right now doesn't even have a valid visa.

One reason is that cricket is not liked by majority of the world, this is clear from participation of countries in cricket. Test and ODI take too much time to complete that's why people don't like it. T20 is exciting but it will take some time. Only people migrating from south Asia are introducing cricket to country where they are migrating.

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Quote from: Maidak on April 17, 2022, 09:43:00 AM

There could be a situation where a player wants to play cricket for his national team but it is not going to be good enough to play for India, Bangladesh, or Pakistan. So maybe he can see this as an opportunity for himself to play cricket professionally even though he knows that the same is not going to be there. so probably some people might take a chance in this way and the people living in these countries have some good general ideas about how to play cricket so they don't have to struggle too much in there.

If an Indian or Pakistani player is not fortunate enough to get selected for his national team, then he always have the option of playing for some of the franchise T20 teams that are located outside his country. The solution is not to play for another national team. Right now, more than 50% of the "national" teams in cricket are entirely made up of foreigners (especially those in Europe and the GCC region). Obviously the player always has the option of undergoing naturalization and getting the passport from his newly adopted country. But for that he need to wait for a few years. Those who play for GCC right now doesn't even have a valid visa.

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Quote from: laurenB7742 on April 18, 2022, 01:00:36 PM

And the bigger problem is ICC is not going to do anything that takes away the supply of money. I am quite sure that these teams which play with a lot of outsiders have really good enough money to give ICC and it will be a big loss for ICC to make any rules against them.

So, I don't think we are going to get any clear-cut solution for this problem and the smaller teams are surely going to suffer from this.

You are right about ICC and their way of work they have never been helpful for countries with native talent because they feel it needs some good funds which are not available and on other side GCC countries are enough rich, and they are investing funds for this and having players from subcontinent and other developing countries which are helping them for their representation into ICC events.

Sometime back there was a suggestion that fix number of players from other countries and support native players for every country but this all fail because ICC need money, and it's only available for them from GCC which is very important, so this suggestion was also scraped most chances we will never have any solution for this and these countries will take good advantage of this all.

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Quote from: TheGreatPython on April 18, 2022, 07:39:25 AM

Quote from: blatchcorn on April 17, 2022, 09:48:44 AM

In South Asia the economic conditions of players are not that good, imagine if you are certain that you won't be selected in national side and getting chance to play for GCC teams. 90% of such players will prefer to move to GCC. As far as loyalty is concerned, its GCC board responsibility to take notice of this if they are happy with this then who can stop them.

The mother of these all problems is economic situation in South Asia region mostly peoples migrating for better future and for average cricketers GCC is surely a big opportunity as we are watching currently, and they are enjoying with this all now recently ICC headquarter is also migrate here just for tax issues, so they will never bring any law which hurt them, and they lose these all benefits.

With this all few big countries are also in good favor of them just because of this all hypocrisy developing countries link PNG, Nepal, Zimbabwe and Bangladesh suffering very badly they have no enough funds for investing on infrastructural and their players are no able to perform in good way with these latest techniques.
ICC finances are also having big issue as they are depended mostly on India, Australia and England, so they are using this all for their sack.

And the bigger problem is ICC is not going to do anything that takes away the supply of money. I am quite sure that these teams which play with a lot of outsiders have really good enough money to give ICC and it will be a big loss for ICC to make any rules against them.

So, I don't think we are going to get any clear-cut solution for this problem and the smaller teams are surely going to suffer from this.

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Quote from: stepwilli on April 17, 2022, 02:46:10 PM

Quote from: LittleBitFunny on April 17, 2022, 08:30:29 AM

I really don't think if a person is not a citizen of a certain country he should be able to play for that particular country's cricket team. And I really think there should be a rule like that, otherwise, the countries which cannot invest in cricket at the moment is going to be just run over by the countries that are paying good enough money to get players who are not a citizen. and that is certainly taking a toll on the popularity of those countries which are trying to work hard to achieve their rightful place in cricket.

In all other sports associations they set rules which are acceptable for all members but sadly here in ICC they fail to settle things like this because here money is big power, so it's all fail with few countries are sending all teams which are not related to them but still they are playing for these countries. Which is killing this game's beauty and having issues for many countries those are playing with their native players and want to establish set up but fail to done things just because of financial problems and ICC is also not providing any positive assistance which is the biggest disaster.

GCC are rich countries, and they have the best facilities which are helping these adopted players to done better performance and give them trophies and better results for having good record, but spirit of game is dyeing.

I really think there are smaller sports than cricket that have some set rules for these types of things but in cricket, I don't think there is any rule for this.

And that's where the countries which are genuinely trying to have a reputation in cricket are being overshadowed by the countries which have just more money and play with expats. And the other thing is, in my opinion, these countries are giving ICC enough money so that even if ICC wants to make any changes this team will obviously be out of the picture and ICC obviously doesn't want to lose that money.

Topic: ODI cricket and general cricketing discussion [self - mod] - page 891. (Read 161244 times)