Topic: [OLD] Eligius: ASIC, no registration, no fee CPPSRB BTC + 105% PPS NMC, 877 # - page 64. (Read 458370 times)

Hi Luke and wizkid,


Duly noted.


Okay, I see that there is lot of stuff going on in the backscene we are not necessary aware. I have seen a lot of posts in this forum of people being confused by the timeout. Maybe you could add a "request payout" button, that would pay everything that is unpaid (if the unpaid balance is over 2 TBC, to avoid the botnet annoyance), but could only be invoqued once per week/month?

Is there anyway to know what amount is currently in the "reserve" fund? I know that the address 18d3HV2bm94UyY4a9DrPfoZ17sXuiDQq2B gets the "surplus" money from every block found, but it seems there is a LOT more money than just that at that adress!


Two ways I -think- could be used to "efficiently" represent this data is eiter:
a) A line chart of "Total BTC you would get" as a function of "Total BTC the pool catches up". So it would be an constantly increasing line.
b) A histogram of "Shelved shares you have" binned in groups of (say) 10 billion shelved shares, in reversed chronological order. Makes easy to see where in the share log is hidden the bulk of your shelved shares.

In fact, b) is approximately the derivative of a), both are interesting in some way/highlight some data.

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A while back, you told about the "?timemachine=1" trick to get our full history, but it is "hidden" because you said that web crawlers overloaded your servers with the requests to these pages while indexing your server. Have you tried using a robot.txt file to request that the stats pages not be crawled? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robots_exclusion_standard)

Just a data point on shelved shares:

Back in early Sept I tried Eligus for a few days during apparently the "worst luck on the Earth". Not understanding I was upset that I only "got" 50% of my work so I switched. In October I figured out the concept and tried mining again. Through October I got every bit of bitcoin that was shelved back, and am running at 99%+ now.

So I will say that Eligus works, and that every shelved share seems to have been paid at the rate at which it was mined.

Thank you Wiz: You run a very. fair. pool.

C

There are reasons why this happens normally, generally when a block is found quickly after a new network block is known.

However......

*facepalm* ... This time it was my fault.  I have to disable automatic payouts for a few minutes in order to do a manual payout (to make sure that the automated payout system doesn't double up on payouts in case we find a block while I'm getting it together).... and I did a manual payout last night and somehow didn't re-enable auto-payouts (coinbaser) on all servers.

I had a thousand things going on yesterday so I must have just missed it. As you can see from the stats, the payout queue just grows with these blocks that pay the cold wallet and wait for me to distribute them.

Sorry about that folks, I'll do another manual to catch up as soon as I get home from work today. (~10 hours)



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Eligius is donation/volunteer run.  There is nothing ever taken from the block reward.  Everything mined by the pool goes to miners.  Even if the pool is lucky for a long period, after all of the existing backlog is paid, then it just gets buffered and paid to miners eventually.

The % shares rewarded is the best way to know what you have in the backlog.  100% means everything you've submitted is paid.  We've tried other methods, but, displaying the tally of shelved shares as a number of coins just seemed to confuse people too much.

-wk

Hi wizkid,

I am new to this pool and like the reward system. If I'm understanding correctly, it attempts to pay 100% PPS as luck allows, and when luck doesn't allow, it caches up shares so that they might be paid someday.  I've been mining for a week or so and love the stats etc.

What I don't understand is how you get paid / cover your costs.  Unless the pool was lucky for a long period, there doesn't seem to be anything in it for you.  Even if the pool was lucky for a long period, how would you know that you could take profit vs storing it for the inevitable bad luck in the future.

Finally, is there anyway of me seeing how many shares I have in the backlog?  Right now I am comparing the "maximum reward" to the "unpaid+everpaid+est" shown in the Balance Graph, but I wanted to see if that's the best way.

Thanks!

I have been mining exclusively on Eligius for a long time now, and recently helped my friend get his asic miner up and running.  He has had a few payouts so far, and his most recent entry into the payout queue was about 6 hours ago.  He was asking about the last 2 blocks which were cracked and subsequently transferred to the eligius offline wallet (18d3HV2bm94UyY4a9DrPfoZ17sXuiDQq2B).   I pointed out to him that this is explained in the FAQ section of the website, to which he responded that it says that happens when the queue is empty surplus gets sent to the offline wallet for manual payout when the pool cannot keep up with generating blocks.  I was at a loss to explain this to him why this took place on the last 2 blocks.  Can anyone help me with some insight here?

http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/blockinfo.php/0000000000000003717cb89e66259447fc57ec114c3d4e219020c978f7b28fd9
http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/blockinfo.php/000000000000000452884b897e93eac8ee0ae8fc232ef71f70d51b3f75c96cb2

https://blockchain.info/address/18d3HV2bm94UyY4a9DrPfoZ17sXuiDQq2B

First, I'll just second Luke-Jr's reply above.


About this, the 10 TBC minimum is for coinbase payouts.  Because some miners do not function properly with large coinbase transactions (with hundreds of outputs) it was decided to put an absolute minimum on coinbase payouts of 10 TBC.  Due to another unrelated issue with a particularly annoying botnet, an absolute will-never-pay-out-ever minimum was set at 2 TBC.  Those that fall between 2 and 10 TBC just wont get generated payouts and I instead pay them manually periodically.  The 10 TBC lower bound for the custom minimum is so that people can still automatically enter the payout queue with their custom minimums.

Technically balances that timeout that are under 2 TBC get donated to the pool, as per rules setup a while back..... however, like the % donations in the control panel, I haven't actually coded that yet due to finite coding time being better spent on other improvements.

-wk

errr Ghash.io getting a bit big?

I don't think basing your minimum payout on difficulty is a good idea.
You want to have the same size coins coming in, as going out.
So if you spent $1 amounts all the time, it makes sense to have payouts around $1 worth of bitcoins.
On the other hand, if you buy more products at $500 value, you'd want a minimum payout close to that.
$20 value seems like a reasonable expected-spending price, hence the default.

Side note: Contrary to popular myth, difficulty increases do not influence price. Price does influence difficulty to a degree, but difficulty is so far behind price right now that it's not a good feedback loop.

First of all, I must say I really like this pool. I've been mining with you for a few months, and I have had absolutely no problem. A+.
(I felt I needed to say that because of the lot of rants I'm reading on these forum pages)

About the minimum payout: Something I would really like would be able to make auto-payout at a given frequency instead of a given amount. I've chosen my auto-payout amount such as I get payout every two weeks, but I keep adjusting the amount because of the constant increase of difficulty. So I'd be really happy if I could indicate I wish to be paid every two weeks, whatever my balance is at that point.

In any case, if you're to lower the default auto-payout amount from 100 TBC to 40 TBC, then by the same logic, maybe you should reduce the minimum payout amount from 10 TBC to 4 TBC?

One again, thank you for all the hard work!

Thank you!

Probably a good idea.

I think wizkid057 should reduce the default minimum payout to 40 TBC (0.04194304 BTC) instead of the current 100 TBC.
When I ran Eligius, I was targeting about $20, so this fits with that original goal, at the current price.
Yay/nay?

Essentially this is correct, however the payment in the orphaned block in the eyes if the reward system retroactively never happened,  so it may or may not have contained the exact same payouts depending on the shares to be paid at the time of the new block.

The coinbase transaction in the orphaned block can never confirm.

-wk

Perfect, thanks 

Without even following your links, it probably has something to do with the orphaned block mentioned on the previous page...  (You were delivered the Eligius block that had your payment in it that was then orphaned by another pool, so your payment was resent in the next Eligius block, which will actually confirm)

anyone got a double payout recently, too?

https://blockchain.info/tx/89fb732aa1eb3f59a6b72ec2b21b2068bcfa76de87339af534d832c22d7f2def
https://blockchain.info/tx/8598ce3fedca8f2cd06e9289856dcd0c111dd9c8cdf690da3075098cbdfeb737

one is confirmed, the other one is not.

I got two mails from blockchain, one for each transaction. both mails include the note "1 confirmation",
so I have to think both transactions should have been balanced with my account.

But they were not - only one transaction was booked.

Any ideas?

AAARGH! WALL OF TEXT!!

Please consider including paragraphs?

Thank you for taking the time to write this. Please understand it is hard for a new miner to join a pool and only see his own hash rate and nothing else. While the hashrate graph is nice on MyStats page I'd rather see a breakdown of rewarded coin broken down into quarters. Is that possible? Obviously this information would be delayed due to the nature of how things work, but that would give the user a much more concise feeling of where they stand in the grand scheme of things. Your pool must be good, lots of people have recommended it to me and told me to leave BTC Guild and their fees, but for some reason when ever I have tried and switched over to your pool I barely made any rewards at all. I guess it is just in my nature to find out why, since Guild even takes fees....so technically your pool should pay out more, right? I guess this type of discussion can go on forever and comes up once in a while with new miners. Is is better to be in a pool with less people, more people, etc...all that. In my mind (weather this to be correct or not) I need to be in a pool that can solve a block as quick as they can and onto the next. And for the users that DO understand the reward system. How do they become aware of how they are doing in your pool? Is it they have so much much hashing power they don't bother to even care or do they try and find some way to check on how they are doing. I think I mined with you for 48 hours and my rewards were .2. On Guild it would have been at least double that. (280 Gh/s). And I'm just a guy trying to figure out why that is. I owe it to myself to be persistent and somewhat of a nag and I know veterans hate questions from new people, but I dropped a few thousand dollars so I'm just trying to understand what that's doing. I didn't get into mining to get rich, or make a lot of money. I did it more for the hobby and to contribute to the bitcoin industry. Even though I didn't know everything beforehand I was kind of forced to make a decision about spending the money due to hardware not being available all the time, and this is why I spent money prior to not knowing %100 of what's going on. Most people can't or won't even admit they're clueless on what's going on. As long as they see some rewards, they are happy. I'm a little different, I want to know more and have been trying to educate myself as much as I can when I have the time. I've noticed a lot of people on here are here 24/7, don't have jobs or a family or just have a lot of time on their hands. Unfortunately I can't spend all day online trying to educate myself on everything, and I come back when I can to absorb when I can at the moment...so please have patience and understand we all were in the same boat at one point or another. Thank you.

Just chiming in, as already explained block time isnt reception time.

When I checked logs it looks like we were actually pretty tied with Slush, but Slush won by hitting a second block that confirmed their first, so, no hope for ours after that.

It happens.

-wk

None of the blocks have anything to do with your stats directly, which is why per-user-per-block stats are pretty pointless, and would be confusing and misleading, as I had mentioned.  Eligius is not PPLNS, so PPLNS stats do not make sense here.   Under CPPSRB, shares are never over or underpaid.  They are either paid at 100% PPS, or they remain in the share log until they are paid 100% PPS, forever, and are not discarded until they are paid.  PPLNS discards shares beyond 'N' shares completely.

Each block pays the share log.  You may or may not have any shares in the top of the share log(depending on your mining habits (active 24/7 or not), luck, etc.  If you have some shelved shares, and we find a block, some of those could be paid even though you didn't put in that much work since the last block.  Or, in an unlucky round, all of your shares since the last round may not be in the top of the share log.  So, again, per-user-per-block stats would be entirely misleading because then I would have people who don't understand the reward system at all going nuts trying to make sense of the stats.  Those who do understand the reward system don't need these stats.

In any case, the balance graph updates continuously, and that data is exposed via the API related stuff if you really feel the desire to compute such stats.

-wk

Time on that page is the timestamp of the block, which is irrelevant when it comes to which was actually found first.