[ POLL ] The Unification Fight: FURY vs USYK 17th FEBRUARY 2024 - page 10.

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Quote from: JollyGood on July 06, 2024, 04:50:11 PM

The poll in this thread is in danger of becoming excessively one-sided. It currently stands at Fury:5 and Usyk:12

By the time the fight takes place and the poll is locked, I think the gap could get even bigger for Usyk to win but if I had pick a winner I would choose Fury because he would be more desperate to win and prove a point whereas Usyk already beat him and made the very same point.

However, it can be argued that Tyson Fury's desperation might cause him to become more careless in the fight. I voted for Fury before but it appears that compared to Usyk, he was very much overestimated because for this, size does not matter. Usyk is a more intelligent boxer and to win against him, the Tyson Fury should fight more intelligently. He certainly cannot do this if he is desperate. Also, desperation does not give a boxer more skill or strength. This only gives more weakness, I reckon.

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Quote from: Kemarit on July 06, 2024, 09:12:27 PM

Or that our boxing fans here really doubt that Fury can adjust in the rematch and beat Usyk. Only way I think Fury can win could be in judges scorecard. But it should be a clear win round for him before we can really say that he won.

There could be more controversies here if Fury got the judges nod, but for us boxing fans who watch the fight, he clearly losses. So maybe this kind of scenario might happen, Fury winning and then they will go for the jugular of a trilogy, bigger money for both camps.

The trilogy is what most neutral boxing fans would like to see but there is no guarantee that will happen. As for Fury winning only by a points decision, if you look back at the fight especially between rounds 4-6 you will see that Usyk came close to going down after a couple of occasions when Fury connected with combinations and used the jab effectively. The outcome is not clear.

Quote from: LogitechMouse on July 06, 2024, 10:04:55 PM

The fight will happen 5 months from now. It's still a long time and for sure, the poll will end up in a close one.

Like you, I also want Fury to win in this match. I mean we know he's capable of winning. He also said in one interview that he became too complacent that he got knocked down in the 9th round, causing him to lose the match eventually. He even defeated one of the most dangerous heavyweight fighters years ago in Wilder. Aside from that, I always want a trilogy between 2 fighters, and this is a perfect one.

Fury can beat Usyk that's for sure. He has the height and reach advantage, and even the power I believe.

After the enormous effort that Fury went through in his trilogy with Wilder, he has never really fought with the same passion and desire. Maybe this was the defeat he needed to restart that desire inside him. As you mentioned, the rematch will happen after five months and maybe others will start leaning towards Fury to win Grin

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Quote from: JollyGood on July 06, 2024, 04:50:11 PM

The poll in this thread is in danger of becoming excessively one-sided. It currently stands at Fury:5 and Usyk:12

By the time the fight takes place and the poll is locked, I think the gap could get even bigger for Usyk to win but if I had pick a winner I would choose Fury because he would be more desperate to win and prove a point whereas Usyk already beat him and made the very same point.

The fight will happen 5 months from now. It's still a long time and for sure, the poll will end up in a close one.

Like you, I also want Fury to win in this match. I mean we know he's capable of winning. He also said in one interview that he became too complacent that he got knocked down in the 9th round, causing him to lose the match eventually. He even defeated one of the most dangerous heavyweight fighters years ago in Wilder. Aside from that, I always want a trilogy between 2 fighters, and this is a perfect one.

Fury can beat Usyk that's for sure. He has the height and reach advantage, and even the power I believe.

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Quote from: JollyGood on July 06, 2024, 04:50:11 PM

The poll in this thread is in danger of becoming excessively one-sided. It currently stands at Fury:5 and Usyk:12

By the time the fight takes place and the poll is locked, I think the gap could get even bigger for Usyk to win but if I had pick a winner I would choose Fury because he would be more desperate to win and prove a point whereas Usyk already beat him and made the very same point.

Or that our boxing fans here really doubt that Fury can adjust in the rematch and beat Usyk. Only way I think Fury can win could be in judges scorecard. But it should be a clear win round for him before we can really say that he won.

There could be more controversies here if Fury got the judges nod, but for us boxing fans who watch the fight, he clearly losses. So maybe this kind of scenario might happen, Fury winning and then they will go for the jugular of a trilogy, bigger money for both camps.

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The poll in this thread is in danger of becoming excessively one-sided. It currently stands at Fury:5 and Usyk:12

By the time the fight takes place and the poll is locked, I think the gap could get even bigger for Usyk to win but if I had pick a winner I would choose Fury because he would be more desperate to win and prove a point whereas Usyk already beat him and made the very same point.

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Quote from: TopTort777 on July 04, 2024, 05:18:27 AM

Wasnt Fury leaning on Wilder, making him lose stamina while they were in clinch? There is nothing positive if during fight a +120kg guy hung on your shoulders. Wasnt there also something tricky with one of his gloves? I remember pictures of it and people pointing that it looks strange. Due to long hands, when dodging, Fury sometimes likes to headlock (lock opponents head and neck between his body and arm, and hold like this) opponents.

If you seriously think Fury cheated or any of the other ridiculous conspiracy theories, you are a low IQ individual.

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Quote from: TopTort777 on July 04, 2024, 05:40:46 AM

https://qr.ae/psjbap <- here is what I have found on quora about Fury dirty tricks.

A few blurry, out of context screenshots from a random Quora user don’t really prove much. Labeling someone as dirty for imposing their physical advantages is kind of subjective. None of the tactics Fury used against Wilder would be enough to merit a point deduction or disqualification.

Quote from: TopTort777 on July 04, 2024, 05:40:46 AM

This is when Fury got caught with cheating glove first https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMSVjTp0A9I

He had a defective glove which was immediately replaced as soon as it was noticed and before the fight even began. Using gloves with a detached thumbs has been the standard for most of boxing’s history. There isn’t much of an advantage you gain from this. It might result in an accidental eye poke but then the fight would have ended in a no contest.

Quote from: TopTort777 on July 04, 2024, 05:40:46 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CZqV2uLrrA <--- this is a glove in a fight against Wilder. This cant be "all of a sudden", "we havent noticed", "by mistake" or any bs explanation like that. This can be accepted in local amateur boxing fight. But in a fight of such level, even a tiny advantage play a huge role.

I don’t see anything wrong with Fury’s glove. This ridiculous conspiracy theory was already debunked by fighters like Ishe Smith. https://youtu.be/WSAQINlOYzo?t=650

Wilder and his idiotic fans came up with a million excuses for losing that fight, it only made them a laughingstock.

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on July 05, 2024, 10:16:02 PM

Quote from: JollyGood on July 03, 2024, 10:56:40 AM

~snip~

The punch appeared to be under the beltline when it was approaching the short pants of Usyk, however, when the punch touched Usyk it is certainly not under the beltline. It was on the beltline. I will not be shocked if this punch has given Usyk a big profusion of low bowel movement after the fight.

Also, @pawel7777 is correct. This only happened because the abdominal muscles were relaxed. This might have occurred while Usyk was inhaling. Tyson Fury was trying to repeat it, however, Usyk's abdomen was always ready and flexing heheheheh.

In any case, is everyone excited for this rematch? I am not anymore. It might be more exciting to witness Bivol go to heavyweight and challenge Usyk if Bivol is victorious against Beterbiev.

For me, the punch was legal, Usyk was hurt, and he was saved by Pabon. If he wasn't given sufficient time to recover from that beltline blow, Dubois would have won via knockout.

Dubois is a gifted puncher. Whether relaxed or not, a perfect strong blow to the abdomen like that would hurt any boxer.

Bivol to the heavyweight? That's quite a leap. He only weighed 175 lbs. in his last fight while Usyk was more than 230 lbs. against Fury. He could climb to cruiserweight though if he feels like he is having a hard time making 175.

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Quote from: JollyGood on July 03, 2024, 10:56:40 AM

I cannot be sure but at the time I think my initial reaction was if the referee was going to stop the fight as Usyk seemed in no state to continue (because of the shaking right arm), how would he end the fight. The only way it was going to end as a no contest was if he concluded Dubois hit Usyk below the belt line. If that happened, either he would have been disqualified or had points deducted (which would have been irrelevant in a no contest) therefore I am glad the bout continued.

Even today people are debating about that punch and there is no consensus. When we look at that punch it appears people are concluding different outcomes:

Quote from: pawel7777 on July 01, 2024, 05:39:07 PM

I didn't notice that shaking hand before, but I've just rewatched it and yeah, that looked really unusual. He must've been really hurt.
It could be that Dubois caught him when his abdominal muscles were relaxed, or maybe the impact was big enough to shock his liver.
Anyhow, he did weather the storm and took hi revenge. And as far as the official record goes, he still hasn't been knocked down in his professional career.

The punch appeared to be under the beltline when it was approaching the short pants of Usyk, however, when the punch touched Usyk it is certainly not under the beltline. It was on the beltline. I will not be shocked if this punch has given Usyk a big profusion of low bowel movement after the fight.

Also, @pawel7777 is correct. This only happened because the abdominal muscles were relaxed. This might have occurred while Usyk was inhaling. Tyson Fury was trying to repeat it, however, Usyk's abdomen was always ready and flexing heheheheh.

In any case, is everyone excited for this rematch? I am not anymore. It might be more exciting to witness Bivol go to heavyweight and challenge Usyk if Bivol is victorious against Beterbiev.

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There were further punches thrown by Dubois in that fight there were lower than the one that out Usyk on the canvas but in those instances Usyk showed signs of taking the punch with a little discomfort but did not collapse to the floor. I found that very strange. You are right about the shorts not being equal and not only that the referee does state (or at least should) before the fight where the limit is and I think I read somewhere it should be the naval.

In the case of Dubois hitting him in the controversial punch, Usyk was in pain and his right arm was shaking while he tried to recover. There seemed to be no chance he would get up and fight, he need several minutes to recover before the bout continued. What would have been extraordinary is if the referee counted and awarded the fight to Dubois by KO. If that had happened there would have been court cases trying to get the decision overturned.

Quote from: hilariousetc on July 05, 2024, 09:55:29 AM

It's 50/50 for me. What adds even more confusion is the ref can, and does state, before the fight where the belt line is and what he will count as a low blow etc so it can fluctuate from fight to fight and from ref to ref. Some refs will say on the belt is legal whilst others will say illegal. The trouble is is that not all shorts are equal either. Some fighters have huge shorts with massive beltlines and they pull them up as far as the possibly can to give themselves an advantage. They should probably crack down on these factors as boxers continually abuse it in my opinion.

As for Usyk, I think if the ref started counting Usyk would have got up and soldiered on, or tried to at least. He's skilled enough to just dance with Dubois whilst he tries to recover.

https://www.dazn.com/en-GB/news/boxing/oleksandr-usyk-vs-daniel-dubois-boxing-referee-explains-low-blow-rule/r5p0k74id5rbzbrw771xnxe1

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Fury might get knocked out in the rematch.

How is he going to beat Usyk? He was getting killed on the inside, couldn't close the range when fighting on the outside and was fighting on the back foot for the majority of the match.

I genuinely cannot see how he beats Usyk barring a lucky one punch KO (anything can happen in heavyweight boxing).

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Quote from: JollyGood on July 03, 2024, 10:56:40 AM

I cannot be sure but at the time I think my initial reaction was if the referee was going to stop the fight as Usyk seemed in no state to continue (because of the shaking right arm), how would he end the fight. The only way it was going to end as a no contest was if he concluded Dubois hit Usyk below the belt line. If that happened, either he would have been disqualified or had points deducted (which would have been irrelevant in a no contest) therefore I am glad the bout continued.

Even today people are debating about that punch and there is no consensus. When we look at that punch it appears people are concluding different outcomes:

It's 50/50 for me. What adds even more confusion is the ref can, and does state, before the fight where the belt line is and what he will count as a low blow etc so it can fluctuate from fight to fight and from ref to ref. Some refs will say on the belt is legal whilst others will say illegal. The trouble is is that not all shorts are equal either. Some fighters have huge shorts with massive beltlines and they pull them up as far as the possibly can to give themselves an advantage. They should probably crack down on these factors as boxers continually abuse it in my opinion.

As for Usyk, I think if the ref started counting Usyk would have got up and soldiered on, or tried to at least. He's skilled enough to just dance with Dubois whilst he tries to recover.

https://www.dazn.com/en-GB/news/boxing/oleksandr-usyk-vs-daniel-dubois-boxing-referee-explains-low-blow-rule/r5p0k74id5rbzbrw771xnxe1

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Quote from: TopTort777 on July 04, 2024, 05:40:46 AM

Quote from: TravelMug on July 04, 2024, 05:21:54 AM

Fury to uses that tactic of hugging and leaning to them, hence putting all his weight.

https://qr.ae/psjbap <- here is what I have found on quora about Fury dirty tricks.

This is when Fury got caught with cheating glove first https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMSVjTp0A9I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CZqV2uLrrA <--- this is a glove in a fight against Wilder. This cant be "all of a sudden", "we havent noticed", "by mistake" or any bs explanation like that. This can be accepted in local amateur boxing fight. But in a fight of such level, even a tiny advantage play a huge role.

Anyway, if Fury knows all that tricks and used them before, why dont he used them against Usyk?

Again as I have said, maybe Usyk is anticipating that dirty tricks and so he is prepared and wanted the fight to happen in the middle of the ring. And if they will clinch, he will get out of it the soonest so Fury can't put and lean over his weight on the smaller Usyk.

And so Usyk was very efficient in this fight as he was able to adjust on the fly, while Fury, who knows to be a good tactician and technical fighter was somewhat very timid in that fight and whatever we look at the reply, he clearly lost to a better man in Usyk.

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"Styles make fights" Cheesy

Yeap, Usyk is experienced boxer and knows about dirty tricks. But they are all professionals. If one tactics does not work, they must try other. Kind of a game of chess. Strange that Usyk always win in it. Despite that "low blow" from Dubois, nobody ever caused any troubles to Usyk. Dunno what to do then. There definitely must be a weakness in Usyks boxing. Man cant be so perfect Cheesy

Are we getting the same fight with same scenario on December? If cant win fair, he should win unfair then Cheesy

By a huge cut and doctor stoppage.

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Quote from: TopTort777 on July 04, 2024, 05:40:46 AM

Quote from: TravelMug on July 04, 2024, 05:21:54 AM

Fury to uses that tactic of hugging and leaning to them, hence putting all his weight.

https://qr.ae/psjbap <- here is what I have found on quora about Fury dirty tricks.

This is when Fury got caught with cheating glove first https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMSVjTp0A9I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CZqV2uLrrA <--- this is a glove in a fight against Wilder. This cant be "all of a sudden", "we havent noticed", "by mistake" or any bs explanation like that. This can be accepted in local amateur boxing fight. But in a fight of such level, even a tiny advantage play a huge role.

Anyway, if Fury knows all that tricks and used them before, why dont he used them against Usyk?

Most likely Usyk already know this tactics and tricks of Fury before, and even Fury's long guard was neutralized by Usyk. Fury has been using this in his fight, long guard because of his long reach to offset his opponent coming in But this time, it's not effective because Usyk uses a lot of feint (long, high, and middle) to counter that physical advantage of him.

And probably this is the same reason why he can't even get closer to Usyk and uses that dirty trick of putting his weight. So in all, it was Usyk technical ability and his team was able to read Fury's style and they were able to put a good game plan.

So the ball is on the court of Fury in the rematch to adjust and come up with a new game plan of his against Usyk.

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Quote from: Questat on July 03, 2024, 04:43:20 AM

I'm curious, what kind of dirty boxing did Fury to Wilder? Honestly, I see that he fight clean on the last two wins against Wilder and that he completely dominated the fight. Usyk might just be a better fighter than Fury but with this rematch, we will see if Usyk can again beat Fury. The result of the last fight was a spit decision, so it was a close one and I believe that this rematch is just right because Fury had become a champion in a hard way and that one loss should not be enough to completely forget what he did.

He needs to win this one and if possible via KO to completely gain back his honor because, in their last fight, he could really have a chance to beat Usyk but he came up short in points also his performance is not the best we have seen so far may be due to his age and he became slower now but with dedications and training to get back the spotlight to him, this next fight will surely a ticket for a trilogy or the end of his era if he loses again this time.

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Quote from: TravelMug on July 04, 2024, 05:21:54 AM

Fury to uses that tactic of hugging and leaning to them, hence putting all his weight.

https://qr.ae/psjbap <- here is what I have found on quora about Fury dirty tricks.

This is when Fury got caught with cheating glove first https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMSVjTp0A9I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CZqV2uLrrA <--- this is a glove in a fight against Wilder. This cant be "all of a sudden", "we havent noticed", "by mistake" or any bs explanation like that. This can be accepted in local amateur boxing fight. But in a fight of such level, even a tiny advantage play a huge role.

Anyway, if Fury knows all that tricks and used them before, why dont he used them against Usyk?

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Quote from: Questat on July 03, 2024, 04:43:20 AM

Quote from: TopTort777 on July 03, 2024, 04:12:13 AM

Oooohhh, you have remembered a nice thing to discuss. In Fury last fights I totally havent seen one thing - dirty boxing. I remember Fury used to lean on Wilder. Why Fury havent used dirty boxing against Ngannou or Usyk. Was he to sure that he is leading in the fight? Yeah, that a good thing to discuss. What about dirty boxing, if boxers cant beat Usyk? Even though you can get a point deduction, you can get more benefits from dirty boxing in later rounds.

I'm curious, what kind of dirty boxing did Fury to Wilder? Honestly, I see that he fight clean on the last two wins against Wilder and that he completely dominated the fight. Usyk might just be a better fighter than Fury but with this rematch, we will see if Usyk can again beat Fury. The result of the last fight was a spit decision, so it was a close one and I believe that this rematch is just right because Fury had become a champion in a hard way and that one loss should not be enough to completely forget what he did.

I wouldn't call that a dirty boxing or what, it's that it was a strategy that he has been using and very effective. He might not be using if very often, but it the Wilder it was evident that he goes on this fight at one of his heaviest weight and when they clinch, he put all his weight on Wilder and so might affect Deontay and can sap all his energy.

But against Francis and Usyk, he can't as this two doesn't want to go and hug, they wanted the fight to happen in the center of the ring. And if they are cornered or Fury is cornered, they usually dart in and dart out, so to time for Fury to uses that tactic of hugging and leaning to them, hence putting all his weight.

Edit: @TopTort777 beat me to the explanation, Sad

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Quote from: Questat on July 03, 2024, 04:43:20 AM

Quote from: TopTort777 on July 03, 2024, 04:12:13 AM

Oooohhh, you have remembered a nice thing to discuss. In Fury last fights I totally havent seen one thing - dirty boxing. I remember Fury used to lean on Wilder. Why Fury havent used dirty boxing against Ngannou or Usyk. Was he to sure that he is leading in the fight? Yeah, that a good thing to discuss. What about dirty boxing, if boxers cant beat Usyk? Even though you can get a point deduction, you can get more benefits from dirty boxing in later rounds.

I'm curious, what kind of dirty boxing did Fury to Wilder? Honestly, I see that he fight clean on the last two wins against Wilder and that he completely dominated the fight. Usyk might just be a better fighter than Fury but with this rematch, we will see if Usyk can again beat Fury. The result of the last fight was a spit decision, so it was a close one and I believe that this rematch is just right because Fury had become a champion in a hard way and that one loss should not be enough to completely forget what he did.

Wasnt Fury leaning on Wilder, making him lose stamina while they were in clinch? There is nothing positive if during fight a +120kg guy hung on your shoulders. Wasnt there also something tricky with one of his gloves? I remember pictures of it and people pointing that it looks strange. Due to long hands, when dodging, Fury sometimes likes to headlock (lock opponents head and neck between his body and arm, and hold like this) opponents.

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Quote from: Questat on July 03, 2024, 04:43:20 AM

Quote from: TopTort777 on July 03, 2024, 04:12:13 AM

Oooohhh, you have remembered a nice thing to discuss. In Fury last fights I totally havent seen one thing - dirty boxing. I remember Fury used to lean on Wilder. Why Fury havent used dirty boxing against Ngannou or Usyk. Was he to sure that he is leading in the fight? Yeah, that a good thing to discuss. What about dirty boxing, if boxers cant beat Usyk? Even though you can get a point deduction, you can get more benefits from dirty boxing in later rounds.

I'm curious, what kind of dirty boxing did Fury to Wilder? Honestly, I see that he fight clean on the last two wins against Wilder and that he completely dominated the fight. Usyk might just be a better fighter than Fury but with this rematch, we will see if Usyk can again beat Fury. The result of the last fight was a spit decision, so it was a close one and I believe that this rematch is just right because Fury had become a champion in a hard way and that one loss should not be enough to completely forget what he did.

Hahaha...Although, Fury is not my kind of person with his show of arrogance most times but this shouldn't stop me from telling the truth. He fought Wilder very well then and I see nothing happened in the ring that is not common to boxing, he was professional. He even won him through a knockout, so I call that a clean win if must say.

As for the match between Fury and Usyk, I already knew the outcome, I drew that from their past matches, especially with the way Anthony Joshua beat Ngannou which was difficult for Fury despite winning the match. Although the rematch will be a little bit different, yet, I see the same outcome. The two sides will always try to be a better version of themselves and avoid earlier mistakes.

But as I know Usyk, survival is key for him, so no matter what Fury does, I believe he will not be able to break him. And the outcome may not be by a knockout, Usyk may still edge higher by performance.

Topic: [ POLL ] The Unification Fight: FURY vs USYK 17th FEBRUARY 2024 - page 10. (Read 5484 times)