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Topic: [ POLL ] The Unification Fight: FURY vs USYK 17th FEBRUARY 2024 - page 11. (Read 5484 times)

legendary
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I cannot be sure but at the time I think my initial reaction was if the referee was going to stop the fight as Usyk seemed in no state to continue (because of the shaking right arm), how would he end the fight. The only way it was going to end as a no contest was if he concluded Dubois hit Usyk below the belt line. If that happened, either he would have been disqualified or had points deducted (which would have been irrelevant in a no contest) therefore I am glad the bout continued.

Even today people are debating about that punch and there is no consensus. When we look at that punch it appears people are concluding different outcomes:










I didn't notice that shaking hand before, but I've just rewatched it and yeah, that looked really unusual. He must've been really hurt.
It could be that Dubois caught him when his abdominal muscles were relaxed, or maybe the impact was big enough to shock his liver.
Anyhow, he did weather the storm and took hi revenge. And as far as the official record goes, he still hasn't been knocked down in his professional career.
hero member
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Oooohhh, you have remembered a nice thing to discuss. In Fury last fights I totally havent seen one thing - dirty boxing. I remember Fury used to lean on Wilder. Why Fury havent used dirty boxing against Ngannou or Usyk. Was he to sure that he is leading in the fight? Yeah, that a good thing to discuss. What about dirty boxing, if boxers cant beat Usyk? Even though you can get a point deduction, you can get more benefits from dirty boxing in later rounds.

I'm curious, what kind of dirty boxing did Fury to Wilder? Honestly, I see that he fight clean on the last two wins against Wilder and that he completely dominated the fight. Usyk might just be a better fighter than Fury but with this rematch, we will see if Usyk can again beat Fury. The result of the last fight was a spit decision, so it was a close one and I believe that this rematch is just right because Fury had become a champion in a hard way and that one loss should not be enough to completely forget what he did.
legendary
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Oooohhh, you have remembered a nice thing to discuss. In Fury last fights I totally havent seen one thing - dirty boxing. I remember Fury used to lean on Wilder. Why Fury havent used dirty boxing against Ngannou or Usyk. Was he to sure that he is leading in the fight? Yeah, that a good thing to discuss. What about dirty boxing, if boxers cant beat Usyk? Even though you can get a point deduction, you can get more benefits from dirty boxing in later rounds.
legendary
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One of things I found fascinating about that incident was how much pain Usyk seemed to be in as he fell to the floor and not only that but how badly the right arm of Usyk was shaking while sitting on the canvas.

As for the punch, from what I remember at the time when it was thrown it looked as though it landed on the belt but upon second look it seemed extremely border line. Even if part of the punch was on the belt and part under, it seemed strange to see Usyk react that way.

I didn't notice that shaking hand before, but I've just rewatched it and yeah, that looked really unusual. He must've been really hurt.
It could be that Dubois caught him when his abdominal muscles were relaxed, or maybe the impact was big enough to shock his liver.
Anyhow, he did weather the storm and took hi revenge. And as far as the official record goes, he still hasn't been knocked down in his professional career.
legendary
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One of things I found fascinating about that incident was how much pain Usyk seemed to be in as he fell to the floor and not only that but how badly the right arm of Usyk was shaking while sitting on the canvas.

As for the punch, from what I remember at the time when it was thrown it looked as though it landed on the belt but upon second look it seemed extremely border line. Even if part of the punch was on the belt and part under, it seemed strange to see Usyk react that way.

Maybe Fury will try to emulate that punch on the belt because he knows Usyk will get hurt  Grin

I honestly cannot see much wrong with the alleged low-punch by Dubois. Anyway Usyk was not complaining subsequently when Dubois kept aiming for the same type of body shot even though he was clearly being hurt. It would make a fascinating fight between Usyk and Dubois for another unification fight if they win against their next opponents first.

I think the most criticism comes from the fact that the punch might indeed have landed on (or below) the belt, but it was above the groin, which is meant to be the protected area and the reason for the no punches below the belt rule.
But yeah, I think I'd rather see Usyk fighting Dubois than Joshua for the 3rd time.
legendary
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We knew it was coming but it is still surprising in a way, because even if I can understand the rules were just being rightfully enforced, at the same time the intent behind the rules should matter too, since even if Usyk was not fighting the mandatory challenger, it is not as if he was doing this to try to keep his belt by avoiding the best possible boxer he could fight, when in fact it is the opposite, so I would have liked for the IBF to give him some leeway, but, alas, it did not happen.

I do understand where you're coming from, but each organisation should only be considering its own ranks, so no one from another organisation can be considered "the best possible boxer" as that spot is always reserved for the mandatory contender.
Also, Usyk has already won against Fury, and they're fighting again mostly because of the contract clause (and big money), which, from the IBF's perspective, cannot be an excuse for not fighting the mandatory fight.
But it's best this way. I'm sure Usyk (or Fury) will get a shot for another unification bout, likely against AJ.

(...)
I honestly cannot see much wrong with the alleged low-punch by Dubois. Anyway Usyk was not complaining subsequently when Dubois kept aiming for the same type of body shot even though he was clearly being hurt. It would make a fascinating fight between Usyk and Dubois for another unification fight if they win against their next opponents first.
(...)

I think the most criticism comes from the fact that the punch might indeed have landed on (or below) the belt, but it was above the groin, which is meant to be the protected area and the reason for the no punches below the belt rule.
But yeah, I think I'd rather see Usyk fighting Dubois than Joshua for the 3rd time.

(...) I'm also sure that they probably would have let Usyk keep it if he paid them a bigger fee which he probably didn't want to do just for the sake of a belt that he can collect again at a later point.

If they indeed asked him for money, that's a sh**y move and I'm glad he said no.
legendary
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How do you feel about the fact that they had a unification fight when they met but will not have the same belts on the line when they meet for the rematch in December? The way the IBF have handled this seems absurd to me, it was an unnecessary step regardless of whoever their number one contender was because Fury and Usyk deserved that. At the very least, Fury deserved a chance to win his WBC belt back along with all the others that Usyk held at that time.

When it comes to the IBF, was it all about money or was it related to a political manoeuvre for publicity?

I'm also sure that they probably would have let Usyk keep it if he paid them a bigger fee which he probably didn't want to do just for the sake of a belt that he can collect again at a later point.
legendary
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Usyk has vacated the IBF title belt so it will be on the line for the upcoming AJ/Dubois fight. (...)

It might be an unpopular opinion but I think the IBF did the right thing (assuming they forced Usyk to vacate it rather that being his decision).
The rules are there for a reason, and if the champ is not willing to fight the mandatory challenger despite being healthy, he should be stripped.
And from the the IBF perspective, it's probably more prestigious to have their own champion rather than being just a part of a bundle. Especially when it creates a potential for another unifying match later down the line.

Yeah, but they kinda pick and choose when to enforce rules. I've lost count of how many times governing bodies have ordered mandatories fights only to abandon them. The WBC ordered Wilder vs. Ruiz to determine the opponent for Fury but it never materialised. I think they should have said they can keep the belt just as long as they get the fight made with a quick turn around. I'm also sure that they probably would have let Usyk keep it if he paid them a bigger fee which he probably didn't want to do just for the sake of a belt that he can collect again at a later point.
legendary
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Dubois had his moments against Usyk and it was a tough fight for both boxers but Usyk still took nine rounds before getting the win. It was the first time I saw Usyk on the canvas and the controversy in the 5th will remain that. Dubois claims he should have been given the win but Usyk claims it was a low punch. Overall, Usyk deserved the win but I give credit to Dubois for trying his best.

I honestly cannot see much wrong with the alleged low-punch by Dubois. Anyway Usyk was not complaining subsequently when Dubois kept aiming for the same type of body shot even though he was clearly being hurt. It would make a fascinating fight between Usyk and Dubois for another unification fight if they win against their next opponents first.

No doubt the IBF were wanting a lot of money for them to let Usyk keep it  Grin. I actually think this is a good thing as Usyk - should he win - should then fight the winner of AJ/ Dubois. I know he's already beaten them both but the Dubois fight was shrouded in controversy over the was/wasn't it a low-blow and AJ seems to have gotten his mojo back and is having a great run now so if he beats Dubois (which I think he does) it sets up the perfect trilogy.
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Usyk has vacated the IBF title belt so it will be on the line for the upcoming AJ/Dubois fight. (...)

Not much of a surprise here. I knew that was very likely to happen. Especially after they introduced the interim belt and we know that the winner will be fighting AJ next.
It might be an unpopular opinion but I think the IBF did the right thing (assuming they forced Usyk to vacate it rather that being his decision).
The rules are there for a reason, and if the champ is not willing to fight the mandatory challenger despite being healthy, he should be stripped.
And from the the IBF perspective, it's probably more prestigious to have their own champion rather than being just a part of a bundle. Especially when it creates a potential for another unifying match later down the line.
We knew it was coming but it is still surprising in a way, because even if I can understand the rules were just being rightfully enforced, at the same time the intent behind the rules should matter too, since even if Usyk was not fighting the mandatory challenger, it is not as if he was doing this to try to keep his belt by avoiding the best possible boxer he could fight, when in fact it is the opposite, so I would have liked for the IBF to give him some leeway, but, alas, it did not happen.
legendary
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Usyk has vacated the IBF title belt so it will be on the line for the upcoming AJ/Dubois fight. (...)

Not much of a surprise here. I knew that was very likely to happen. Especially after they introduced the interim belt and we know that the winner will be fighting AJ next.
It might be an unpopular opinion but I think the IBF did the right thing (assuming they forced Usyk to vacate it rather that being his decision).
The rules are there for a reason, and if the champ is not willing to fight the mandatory challenger despite being healthy, he should be stripped.
And from the the IBF perspective, it's probably more prestigious to have their own champion rather than being just a part of a bundle. Especially when it creates a potential for another unifying match later down the line.
legendary
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Usyk has vacated the IBF title belt so it will be on the line for the upcoming AJ/Dubois fight.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/article/2024/jun/26/oleksandr-usyk-vacates-ibf-world-title-daniel-dubois-anthony-joshua

Quote
The undisputed world heavyweight champion, Oleksandr Usyk, has confirmed he will vacate his IBF title, clearing the way for Daniel Dubois and Anthony Joshua to fight for it in September. The Ukrainian became the first heavyweight to hold the IBF, WBO, WBA and WBC belts when he beat Tyson Fury in Saudi Arabia last month – but has been forced to relinquish one of the belts.

With Usyk now contracted to a rematch with Fury, he is not in a position to defend the IBF crown against Dubois, who is the interim champion and mandatory challenger after stopping Filip Hrgovic in Riyadh this month.
That means Dubois’s anticipated 21 September bout against Joshua at Wembley Stadium will probably become a world title fight. In a video posted on social media, Usyk said:

“Anthony and Daniel, listen. I know the IBF title is important to you. It is my present to you on 21 September.” A caption added: “The world loves strong. Your friend, Undisputed Heavyweight Champion of the World, Oleksandr Usyk.”

No doubt the IBF were wanting a lot of money for them to let Usyk keep it  Grin. I actually think this is a good thing as Usyk - should he win - should then fight the winner of AJ/ Dubois. I know he's already beaten them both but the Dubois fight was shrouded in controversy over the was/wasn't it a low-blow and AJ seems to have gotten his mojo back and is having a great run now so if he beats Dubois (which I think he does) it sets up the perfect trilogy.
legendary
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That is the hallmark of a great boxer, if they can come back from adversaries and climb their title back or beat their opponents. So everything is on the shoulder of Fury now, on how he will bounce back from his first defeat and show what it takes to win in the rematch.
It is like a game of chess in some ways because both Fury and Usyk want to win the rematch and both have try to out-think the other. Yes there is pressure on Fury because he needs to win as it would give him redemption but there is also pressure on Usyk too because he has already won once and would not want to lose and get in to a trilogy. Both have different types of pressure.

Oh, that is nice and constructive enough, and perhaps I should have added that it's in the first sets of interviews after the match because, after that, I've never given any attention to what he has to say. I never watched this particular video, regardless, as we know Fury, he is such a big mouth guy, he may say a thing now and downplay it tomorrow and even change it entirely the 3rd day, he is what he is.

You can imagine the concluding part as if he will beat Usyk like a baby...lol Let's wait and see. I am betting on Usyk again! Wink
I can understand your reasons for not paying attention to Fury after an interview starts, many others feel the same way too. I would not have expected anything less from Fury, he is always talking too much and most of it is for being a showman  Grin
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Fury has to add more aggression to his strategy. Perhaps it might help if he turns the fight into a brawl. Outfighting is highly advantageous to the much quicker Usyk.
I guess he already knows where he went wrong in the unification fight and will try to rectify the errors for the rematch. Having said that, Usyk is a fantastic boxer and would try his best to counter whatever strategy Fury brings to the ring.

I've not seen where Fury claimed he didn't lose the match between himself and Usyk, he may only try to talk the winning down but the match was clear and the decision was never divided.
We can agree or disagree with what Fury says or believes but he clearly stated that as far as he was concerned he had won the fight. I am surprised you missed it if you had seen the video. Watch the video in the link provided by hilariousetc and when the video gets to 1m 38s Fury clearly states: "I watched the fight back lots of times, still got he same answer, I thought I won the fight, I thought I did enough"
Oh, that is nice and constructive enough, and perhaps I should have added that it's in the first sets of interviews after the match because, after that, I've never given any attention to what he has to say. I never watched this particular video, regardless, as we know Fury, he is such a big mouth guy, he may say a thing now and downplay it tomorrow and even change it entirely the 3rd day, he is what he is.

You can imagine the concluding part as if he will beat Usyk like a baby...lol Let's wait and see. I am betting on Usyk again! Wink
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Fury has to add more aggression to his strategy. Perhaps it might help if he turns the fight into a brawl. Outfighting is highly advantageous to the much quicker Usyk.
I guess he already knows where he went wrong in the unification fight and will try to rectify the errors for the rematch. Having said that, Usyk is a fantastic boxer and would try his best to counter whatever strategy Fury brings to the ring.

I've not seen where Fury claimed he didn't lose the match between himself and Usyk, he may only try to talk the winning down but the match was clear and the decision was never divided.
We can agree or disagree with what Fury says or believes but he clearly stated that as far as he was concerned he had won the fight. I am surprised you missed it if you had seen the video. Watch the video in the link provided by hilariousetc and when the video gets to 1m 38s Fury clearly states: "I watched the fight back lots of times, still got he same answer, I thought I won the fight, I thought I did enough"

That is the hallmark of a great boxer, if they can come back from adversaries and climb their title back or beat their opponents. So everything is on the shoulder of Fury now, on how he will bounce back from his first defeat and show what it takes to win in the rematch.

Yes, it says that he won the fight, as he watch the reply many times. But many boxing fans and the judges themselves disagrees with him. That's why the burden is on him on the rematch, otherwise another lost will be devastating to this career.
legendary
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Fury has to add more aggression to his strategy. Perhaps it might help if he turns the fight into a brawl. Outfighting is highly advantageous to the much quicker Usyk.
I guess he already knows where he went wrong in the unification fight and will try to rectify the errors for the rematch. Having said that, Usyk is a fantastic boxer and would try his best to counter whatever strategy Fury brings to the ring.

I've not seen where Fury claimed he didn't lose the match between himself and Usyk, he may only try to talk the winning down but the match was clear and the decision was never divided.
We can agree or disagree with what Fury says or believes but he clearly stated that as far as he was concerned he had won the fight. I am surprised you missed it if you had seen the video. Watch the video in the link provided by hilariousetc and when the video gets to 1m 38s Fury clearly states: "I watched the fight back lots of times, still got he same answer, I thought I won the fight, I thought I did enough"
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Tyson in a new interview on his Furyocity channel gave an updated about what he's been up to since the fight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfXEIeMPWK8

He thinks he beat Usyk easily and claims Usyk knows he lost the fight. Delusional. Was hoping he'd just accept defeat and promise to change that in the rematch. Hopefully the ref doesn't get involved this time and deprive Usyk of a KO.

I was just thinking that this could be part of the promotion already for the rematch. But he could really be that delusional and thinking that he won the fight, it might be close though but there's no uproar and we really think that Fury losses this fight very clearly.

And he should really focus on the rematch, make the necessary adjustments as that really separates a elite boxer from a good one. The ability to comeback, get back the belt that you lost, come back strong. So he should acknowledge first that he lost this one, man up and adjust.
I've not seen where Fury claimed he didn't lose the match between himself and Usyk, he may only try to talk the winning down but the match was clear and the decision was never divided. No one even queried the decision of the judges so it is obvious. On the rematch, I see nothing different from what happened in their first match. Fury has a better advantage than Usyk in my opinion but wasn't able to utilize it as it takes more than what you possess to win in the ring but how you can utilize it. He will surely locate his flaws and do better in the rematch, but Usyk won't fold his hands either.

Above it all, what I see that has been the strength of Usyk that many boxers do not have is endurance, the longer surviving spirit. That guy can withstand the heat in the ring, so it takes a staying power like him to beat him.
legendary
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Tyson in a new interview on his Furyocity channel gave an updated about what he's been up to since the fight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfXEIeMPWK8

He thinks he beat Usyk easily and claims Usyk knows he lost the fight. Delusional. Was hoping he'd just accept defeat and promise to change that in the rematch. Hopefully the ref doesn't get involved this time and deprive Usyk of a KO.

I was just thinking that this could be part of the promotion already for the rematch. But he could really be that delusional and thinking that he won the fight, it might be close though but there's no uproar and we really think that Fury losses this fight very clearly.

And he should really focus on the rematch, make the necessary adjustments as that really separates a elite boxer from a good one. The ability to comeback, get back the belt that you lost, come back strong. So he should acknowledge first that he lost this one, man up and adjust.

Yeah, Usyk was the clear winner, but Fury might have a reason to believe otherwise. Although that's already pointless at this point. But indeed it was a split decision and with the two judges giving the fight to Usyk had it very close at 115–112 and 114–113. So, if there wasn't a knockdown, the fight could have been a split draw. Although these scorecards are somehow controversial. It was an Usyk fight.

Fury has to add more aggression to his strategy. Perhaps it might help if he turns the fight into a brawl. Outfighting is highly advantageous to the much quicker Usyk.
legendary
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Tyson in a new interview on his Furyocity channel gave an updated about what he's been up to since the fight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfXEIeMPWK8

He thinks he beat Usyk easily and claims Usyk knows he lost the fight. Delusional. Was hoping he'd just accept defeat and promise to change that in the rematch. Hopefully the ref doesn't get involved this time and deprive Usyk of a KO.

I was just thinking that this could be part of the promotion already for the rematch. But he could really be that delusional and thinking that he won the fight, it might be close though but there's no uproar and we really think that Fury losses this fight very clearly.

And he should really focus on the rematch, make the necessary adjustments as that really separates a elite boxer from a good one. The ability to comeback, get back the belt that you lost, come back strong. So he should acknowledge first that he lost this one, man up and adjust.
legendary
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Tyson in a new interview on his Furyocity channel gave an updated about what he's been up to since the fight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfXEIeMPWK8

He thinks he beat Usyk easily and claims Usyk knows he lost the fight. Delusional. Was hoping he'd just accept defeat and promise to change that in the rematch. Hopefully the ref doesn't get involved this time and deprive Usyk of a KO.
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