[ POLL ] The Unification Fight: FURY vs USYK 17th FEBRUARY 2024 - page 13.

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Quote from: pawel7777 on May 25, 2024, 05:16:51 PM

Is this even an option though? i.e. if the Saudis paid Hrgovic to say he doesn't want to fight anytime soon and is happy to wait for the outcome of the rematch, wouldn't the IBF be in power to force Usyk to defend the belt against whoever is ranked below Hrgovic? Just to prevent stalling etc.
I think hilariousetc meant a deal with IBF, not with the top contender himself.

So, if what hilariousetc wrote is true and Usyk cannot be stripped while being on medical suspension (until 2nd June), then the Hrgovic Vs Dubois (scheduled for the 1st of June) will definitely not have a freshly vacated IBF belt on the line. At the very best, it could be an interim belt. Correct?

Things are getting pretty confusing...

I really hope this can be solved in favor of Usyk, I know those rules are set in place so the champion cannot avoid the top contender for long, but Usyk is not avoiding anyone, he got all the belts of the heavyweight division in just 6 fights, and it should be obvious that the best for him, boxing fans and box in general is to allow him to keep all his titles for his rematch with Fury, after that the winner can just begin to fight against the mandatory challengers.

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Quote from: KTChampions on May 25, 2024, 02:39:56 PM

If this is a problem, then solving this problem (collecting all the belts) seems more valuable.

The financial aspect of any boxing bout as alluring as it could be probably will not be bigger than the desire of either Fury or Usyk to cement their place in history. To have had the unification fight was momentous (the first time it happened since Lennox Lewis and Evander Holyfield in 1999) and to have a rematch with all the belts on the line again would be the least fans should expect.

Quote from: pawel7777 on May 25, 2024, 05:16:51 PM

Things are getting pretty confusing...

At the moment yes things are confusing. Maybe things will clear when the next major news updates are released by the Fury, Usyk and the IBF.

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Quote from: mu_enrico on May 20, 2024, 02:41:09 AM

My opinion was the same as most of the voters here, but I guess Fury was just too lazy. He has everything: technique, reach, height, and weight, but if he's too lazy to train, then he has nothing. The signs were there, starting with his sluggish performance against Ngannou when he could have easily beaten him if he had trained well. Instead, he was in trouble! If and only if Fury isn't injured and spends the rest of the months training like hell, then he still has a chance to get his revenge.

Agreed that he was lazy against Francis Ngannou in the fight and I speculate also in his training. However, I very much disagree that Tyson Fury was was lazy during his training against Usyk. This fight was for history and legacy! We can be quite certain that both of these boxers wanted the victory and used all of their stamina and strength. It was a split decision. There was no lazy boxer in this fight. Usyk was better than Fury despite Usyk's smaller size.

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Quote from: pawel7777 on May 25, 2024, 05:16:51 PM

Is this even an option though? i.e. if the Saudis paid Hrgovic to say he doesn't want to fight anytime soon and is happy to wait for the outcome of the rematch, wouldn't the IBF be in power to force Usyk to defend the belt against whoever is ranked below Hrgovic? Just to prevent stalling etc.
I think hilariousetc meant a deal with IBF, not with the top contender himself.

So, if what hilariousetc wrote is true and Usyk cannot be stripped while being on medical suspension (until 2nd June), then the Hrgovic Vs Dubois (scheduled for the 1st of June) will definitely not have a freshly vacated IBF belt on the line. At the very best, it could be an interim belt. Correct?

Things are getting pretty confusing...

This is also what I understand, their fight in June 1 could be for the interim belt only and not the regular IBF championship as Usyk could still be wearing it until such time that he will have his rematch with Tyson Fury. And it only make sense that all 4 belts are going to be in the line for the second fight, just to be fair with Fury.

And I'm seeing that someone will pay the IBF money here to allow that to happen.

Also from what I read, the powerful broker, HE Turki Alalshikh spoke to Flip Hrgovic and could have a verbal agreement that the fight is going to be for the interim belt and maybe wait for the result of the Fury vs Usyk as he could be next in the line.

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Quote from: JollyGood on May 25, 2024, 01:54:59 PM

As hilariousetc stated, if the IBF decline the case put forward by Usyk the other way out of this could be to make a deal/payment for their number one ranked contender to step aside and allow Usyk to have the rematch with Fury.

Is this even an option though? i.e. if the Saudis paid Hrgovic to say he doesn't want to fight anytime soon and is happy to wait for the outcome of the rematch, wouldn't the IBF be in power to force Usyk to defend the belt against whoever is ranked below Hrgovic? Just to prevent stalling etc.
I think hilariousetc meant a deal with IBF, not with the top contender himself.

So, if what hilariousetc wrote is true and Usyk cannot be stripped while being on medical suspension (until 2nd June), then the Hrgovic Vs Dubois (scheduled for the 1st of June) will definitely not have a freshly vacated IBF belt on the line. At the very best, it could be an interim belt. Correct?

Things are getting pretty confusing...

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Quote from: JollyGood on May 25, 2024, 01:54:59 PM

That is part of the problem, the number of belts that were unified when Fury and Usyk had their fight are simply too many to keep all their authorities happy when it comes to comparing the boxers they have ranked as number one contenders. For example, if the IBF want Usyk to fight their number one ranked contender but the WBC want Usyk to fight their number one ranked contender, things will get messy.

When it comes to the WBC, WBA, IBO and IBF forcing their champions to choose between accepting mandatory fights or surrendering their title belts, it really does become a sad situation.

If this is a problem, then solving this problem (collecting all the belts) seems more valuable.
And this problem has another side - imagine if there was only one belt. Taking into account the fact that a boxer simply physically cannot hold “round-robin tournaments,” even if we choose the best of the best, we would have a situation where the belt would be held for a very long time by someone (who would tighten its defense/choose convenient opponents, as we know there is there are a lot of tricks for this). This would greatly aggravate the corruption in boxing. In a situation where there are many belts, more boxers have the opportunity to express themselves and this motivates ambitious boxers to seek meetings with champions of different versions, rather than cowardly holding on to one belt.

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Quote from: hilariousetc on May 24, 2024, 01:15:29 PM

They should quickly try get the rematch scheduled and make a deal with the IBF commission so that the winner has to fight the mandatory which I think will be the winner of Dubois/Hrgovic, though I also heard that AJ will be fighting the winner of those two so who knows. There's so many belts and mandatories it's hard to keep track of them all.

That is part of the problem, the number of belts that were unified when Fury and Usyk had their fight are simply too many to keep all their authorities happy when it comes to comparing the boxers they have ranked as number one contenders. For example, if the IBF want Usyk to fight their number one ranked contender but the WBC want Usyk to fight their number one ranked contender, things will get messy.

When it comes to the WBC, WBA, IBO and IBF forcing their champions to choose between accepting mandatory fights or surrendering their title belts, it really does become a sad situation.

Quote from: pawel7777 on May 25, 2024, 01:11:29 PM

The mandatory challenger is Filip Hrgovic, who will be fighting Daniel Dubois on 1st June.
If I understand the situation correctly, if Uyk's request is rejected by the IBF, Hrgovic and Dubois may end up fighting for the belt.

As hilariousetc stated, if the IBF decline the case put forward by Usyk the other way out of this could be to make a deal/payment for their number one ranked contender to step aside and allow Usyk to have the rematch with Fury.

I hope Fury and Usyk manage to have that highly anticipated rematch and I hope it will be for all of the titles. If their rematch goes ahead they both deserve
to be fighting for exactly the same belts that were on the line in their first encounter.

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Usyk's team made an official application for the exemption from the mandatory IBF title defence:
https://www.ringtv.com/670559-oleksandr-usyk-files-for-exception-to-ibf-mandatory-defense-versus-filip-hrgovic/
https://www.marca.com/en/boxing/2024/05/24/6650f41122601df5318b45d4.html

The mandatory challenger is Filip Hrgovic, who will be fighting Daniel Dubois on 1st June.
If I understand the situation correctly, if Uyk's request is rejected by the IBF, Hrgovic and Dubois may end up fighting for the belt.

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Uysk has been given a short medical suspension by the British Boxing Board of Control : https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/28083299/oleksandr-usyk-boxing-suspension-tyson-fury/

Not sure why he got one and not Tyson given it was Fury that came off worse. This could actually work out the best for both of them as Usyk can't be stripped of the belt while suspended which means it could be on the line for the rematch which I think it should be either way. They should quickly try get the rematch scheduled and make a deal with the IBF commission so that the winner has to fight the mandatory which I think will be the winner of Dubois/Hrgovic, though I also heard that AJ will be fighting the winner of those two so who knows. There's so many belts and mandatories it's hard to keep track of them all.

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Personally, it looked as though Fury was going to win the fight after he was clearly on top at Round 5 and when Usyk took heavy punches I thought he would go down for the count but managed to stay upwards before he turned things around and won the fight.

The punch statistics for the fight show exactly how the fight unfolded over the 12 rounds and where momentum tilted in favour of Usyk before shifting in favour of Fury and eventually at the end momentum went in favour of Usyk as he won the rounds and the points on the judges scorecards.

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Quote from: mu_enrico on May 20, 2024, 02:41:09 AM

My opinion was the same as most of the voters here, but I guess Fury was just too lazy. He has everything: technique, reach, height, and weight, but if he's too lazy to train, then he has nothing. The signs were there, starting with his sluggish performance against Ngannou when he could have easily beaten him if he had trained well. Instead, he was in trouble! If and only if Fury isn't injured and spends the rest of the months training like hell, then he still has a chance to get his revenge.

I think he seriously trained in this fight, and as I have said before, he losses a lot of weight and that could be his strategy here and could be looking to really moved around. But Usyk is getting better as he outbox and outsmart Fury and his straight and overhand left was very effective and Fury can't counter him. Now, if Fury is really a great champion, then if the rematch he will try to avenge his lost. But then, if he takes another close lose, maybe we can say that Usyk is really the best on this era now. Defeated Joshua two times and now drop Fury to win. One judges though, his scores is questionable.

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Quote from: bittraffic on May 19, 2024, 11:16:05 PM

Quote from: FinneysTrueVision on May 19, 2024, 08:19:46 PM

Quote from: pawel7777 on May 19, 2024, 05:13:19 PM

I see you're not a Fury fan to the point that you're being unreasonable in your criticism.
Why would he be content in fighting bums? Not for the glory/legacy, that's for sure, so for money? A rematch with Usyk would yield them much more than a dozen bum fights.

He lost to Usyk in a close fight by split decision while dealing more physical damage to Usyk than the other way around. Of course he's not without a chance in a rematch, so why would he be afraid of it?

Plus, they had a rematch clause in the contract, both confirmed they want it to happen, and it's tentatively scheduled for 12th October, so this is happening unless one of them backs out of it (there could be some penalties involved though).

Fury has been a polarizing and controversial figure. People would have looked for reasons to discredit him regardless of the outcome. I don’t really get it, it’s not like he is Jake Paul. I’ve seen some opinions online from people saying he is a bum who has never beaten any good fighters and that he was easily defeated by an MMA fighter. Paradoxically, most of these people are now saying that Usyk is the #1 fighter in the world after winning against an "overrated bum" like Fury.

Usyk is indeed a great fighter, but whether people want to admit it or not, Fury is also great. Up until this loss, I would’ve considered him the best heavyweight in the post-Klitschko era. Winning his titles against a legend like Klitschko in his adopted home country of Germany, and then being the first to beat a fearsome killer like Wilder are not accomplishments that can easily be ignored.

I don't know. Fury isn't as graceful in accepting defeat actually it's like taking out the glory from Usyk by saying he thought he was winning that's why in the last 2 rounds he was just running around. Duh? If it weren't for the referee he would have been crawling like Haney, I doubt he would even get up as he isn't raising his hands anymore at that 9th round.

That's how it is, no one accepts defeat, because fighters doesn't see what's the real score and obviously everyone is very positive that they are winning until the judges scorecard is announced.

And so there is a rematch, Fury will have to adjust, Usyk really amazes us, I mean he is CW, but when he moves up, it seems that he really improved a lot and his punches have power. We never thought that he could give a beating like that to a bigger Fury. Something though is wrong with Fury though, perhaps he just try to hide everything with his antics even during the fight. But deep inside his mentality is very different.

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Quote from: Lannakosa on May 20, 2024, 10:01:42 AM

Quote from: bakasabo on May 20, 2024, 05:08:28 AM

From your point of view, what kind of fight it was? Thus that this fight is split and not majority, means one judge saw Fury winning this fight. Which rounds Fury has won do you think? As I dont think that rematch is necessary it this case. Even if they went close, round 9 showed who is better. As well as Alexander Usyk has obtain all the belts. He had all belts in cruiserweight, now had them in heavyweights. For him its looks like he has achieved everything in boxing so far, and maybe it is time to think about retirement.

The sixth round was difficult for Usyk, but giving the victory to a fighter just because of one round? Usyk achieved his goal, this is a great achievement, but he is still too young to think about retiring from his career. Besides, a rematch is a common thing, and it seems to me that Usyk would not mind repeating this fight again, given that he was better throughout almost the entire fight. For Fury, this is the first defeat, it can change his self-confidence, it’s not for nothing that he was afraid to look Usyk in the eyes. Usik also pointed out to the referee a couple of times that Fury struck at the back of the head, but this is his method, he always liked to act with some tricks, and by the way, he once refused Klitschko a rematch.

From what I saw, Usyk won more than one round, and despite 6th round was tough for Usyk, Fury did not send him to knockdown. Late rounds, the most complicated or called champion rounds were all taken by Usyk. For me, the way Usyk performed that night is enough to call him a winner or champion.

Maybe you are right that it is early for him to retire, but what should he do next despite having title protection? There is nothing else to achieve. He could continue fighting only for the sake of money, as there is nothing else left to win. Olympic champion, Worlds champion in all organizations.

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Quote from: JollyGood on May 19, 2024, 04:17:42 AM

Quote from: inthelongrun on May 19, 2024, 01:51:51 AM

Usyk had 3 belts compared to Fury's 1 but he walked first and was also introduced first. But maybe they're one of Fury's dozens of demands just to make this undisputed fight.

I do not think it was even a matter of demands. Fury held the WBC belt which historically is the belt that has the most value and historical association. It was never going to be debatable as to which boxer would walk in to the ring second.

It is a matter of demands. Normally when 2 champs fight each other, the champion who enters the ring first will be the one introduced last.

All belts, the WBA, WBC, IBF and WBO are all equal. Historically, it's the WBA because it's the first. The WBC is probably the most popular because the Sulaimans were corrupt and provide special rankings and treatments to popular fighters for monetary purposes. The biggest name and cashcow in the sport at the moment, Canelo Alvarez is the perfect example. Not getting stripped of his WBC belt even if he's not fighting his mando.

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Quote from: pawel7777 on May 19, 2024, 05:13:19 PM

Quote from: KTChampions on May 19, 2024, 04:15:02 PM

I'm not sure that Fury really wants this fight, maybe in words he is brave (as it always was, his mouth produced a lot of loud words) but in deeds he is a coward. After Usyk destroyed Fury's claim to legacy by making him a mere decoration, what's the point of him fighting again? I think he will be content with bumfights and by the way he is quite up to their level, he is finished.
I wonder what Usik himself will do next, he has completed boxing completely in two weight categories. Maybe it's worth leaving undefeated, maybe it's worth just making money and losing sooner or later... it doesn't matter since he's already soared to maximum heights.

I see you're not a Fury fan to the point that you're being unreasonable in your criticism.
Why would he be content in fighting bums? Not for the glory/legacy, that's for sure, so for money? A rematch with Usyk would yield them much more than a dozen bum fights.

He lost to Usyk in a close fight by split decision while dealing more physical damage to Usyk than the other way around. Of course he's not without a chance in a rematch, so why would he be afraid of it?

Plus, they had a rematch clause in the contract, both confirmed they want it to happen, and it's tentatively scheduled for 12th October, so this is happening unless one of them backs out of it (there could be some penalties involved though).

I think Fury will prefer bumfights because it’s easy money and for the sake of the show (or rather its continuation), the judges can help him even if he loses the fight (with fair judging).
Fury is a shameful coward, a nandrolone lover who ran from Klitschko, then ran from Usik, but by some miracle the unification fight still took place and everyone saw that Fury was just a sack.
No need to talk about a split decision and a close fight, just watch it again (I did that, for example) Wink

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Quote from: bittraffic on May 19, 2024, 11:16:05 PM

Quote from: FinneysTrueVision on May 19, 2024, 08:19:46 PM

Fury has been a polarizing and controversial figure. People would have looked for reasons to discredit him regardless of the outcome. I don’t really get it, it’s not like he is Jake Paul. I’ve seen some opinions online from people saying he is a bum who has never beaten any good fighters and that he was easily defeated by an MMA fighter. Paradoxically, most of these people are now saying that Usyk is the #1 fighter in the world after winning against an "overrated bum" like Fury.

Usyk is indeed a great fighter, but whether people want to admit it or not, Fury is also great. Up until this loss, I would’ve considered him the best heavyweight in the post-Klitschko era. Winning his titles against a legend like Klitschko in his adopted home country of Germany, and then being the first to beat a fearsome killer like Wilder are not accomplishments that can easily be ignored.

I don't know. Fury isn't as graceful in accepting defeat actually it's like taking out the glory from Usyk by saying he thought he was winning that's why in the last 2 rounds he was just running around. Duh? If it weren't for the referee he would have been crawling like Haney, I doubt he would even get up as he isn't raising his hands anymore at that 9th round.

Lol, he said that he was winning and didn't fight much on the last two rounds AFTER he got a knockdown? I mean technically he wasn't down, but the count was up so that was considered as knockdown, so he assumed that after that in the 9th round, he assumed that he was doing fine? Lol, wonder what made him think that, at the very least his corner should have let him know that he was losing.

The fact that he lost just by a small margin is the real scandal, dude lost by a huge margin, everyone who watched the fight knew that after the first few rounds, he was nowhere to be found and Usyk really gave him the business, dude fought all 12 rounds and that is why he won the fight. They talked about October rematch during the end, I really hope that happens again.

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Quote from: bakasabo on May 20, 2024, 05:08:28 AM

From your point of view, what kind of fight it was? Thus that this fight is split and not majority, means one judge saw Fury winning this fight. Which rounds Fury has won do you think? As I dont think that rematch is necessary it this case. Even if they went close, round 9 showed who is better. As well as Alexander Usyk has obtain all the belts. He had all belts in cruiserweight, now had them in heavyweights. For him its looks like he has achieved everything in boxing so far, and maybe it is time to think about retirement.

The sixth round was difficult for Usyk, but giving the victory to a fighter just because of one round? Usyk achieved his goal, this is a great achievement, but he is still too young to think about retiring from his career. Besides, a rematch is a common thing, and it seems to me that Usyk would not mind repeating this fight again, given that he was better throughout almost the entire fight. For Fury, this is the first defeat, it can change his self-confidence, it’s not for nothing that he was afraid to look Usyk in the eyes. Usik also pointed out to the referee a couple of times that Fury struck at the back of the head, but this is his method, he always liked to act with some tricks, and by the way, he once refused Klitschko a rematch.

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Quote from: yazher on May 20, 2024, 04:54:38 AM

Quote from: bakasabo on May 20, 2024, 03:36:41 AM

But if we compare Tyson Fury vs Francis Ngannou and Tyson Fury vs Alexander Usyk, we would get two different boxers. In a fight against Usyk we did not get lazy Fury. Just look on his form, how slim (if it is right to say that about him) he was. This is achieved through hours and hours of training. In my opinion, it is not that Tyson Fury was lazy, it is Usyk who was better than him. But I can accept the fact that Fury is just old for boxing. Look at his career in past and now. He was furious, and now in two last fights he was knocked downed, and in the second time saved by referee.

The split decision tells us what kind of fight it was and surely we want to see another re-match if it's possible because it was the kind of Heavyweight fight we really want to see. They reached the last rounds which often Fury has the advantage but the consistent punches from Usyk made him more furious and gave him enough points to win that fight. Well, Fury is getting mold but he was able to counter effectively but not as good as he was before because those heavy punches when landed to his opponent's face back then, knocked them out cold like how Wilder was.

From your point of view, what kind of fight it was? Thus that this fight is split and not majority, means one judge saw Fury winning this fight. Which rounds Fury has won do you think? As I dont think that rematch is necessary it this case. Even if they went close, round 9 showed who is better. As well as Alexander Usyk has obtain all the belts. He had all belts in cruiserweight, now had them in heavyweights. For him its looks like he has achieved everything in boxing so far, and maybe it is time to think about retirement.

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Quote from: bakasabo on May 20, 2024, 03:36:41 AM

But if we compare Tyson Fury vs Francis Ngannou and Tyson Fury vs Alexander Usyk, we would get two different boxers. In a fight against Usyk we did not get lazy Fury. Just look on his form, how slim (if it is right to say that about him) he was. This is achieved through hours and hours of training. In my opinion, it is not that Tyson Fury was lazy, it is Usyk who was better than him. But I can accept the fact that Fury is just old for boxing. Look at his career in past and now. He was furious, and now in two last fights he was knocked downed, and in the second time saved by referee.

The split decision tells us what kind of fight it was and surely we want to see another re-match if it's possible because it was the kind of Heavyweight fight we really want to see. They reached the last rounds which often Fury has the advantage but the consistent punches from Usyk made him more furious and gave him enough points to win that fight. Well, Fury is getting mold but he was able to counter effectively but not as good as he was before because those heavy punches when landed to his opponent's face back then, knocked them out cold like how Wilder was.

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Quote from: mu_enrico on May 20, 2024, 02:41:09 AM

My opinion was the same as most of the voters here, but I guess Fury was just too lazy. He has everything: technique, reach, height, and weight, but if he's too lazy to train, then he has nothing. The signs were there, starting with his sluggish performance against Ngannou when he could have easily beaten him if he had trained well. Instead, he was in trouble! If and only if Fury isn't injured and spends the rest of the months training like hell, then he still has a chance to get his revenge.

But if we compare Tyson Fury vs Francis Ngannou and Tyson Fury vs Alexander Usyk, we would get two different boxers. In a fight against Usyk we did not get lazy Fury. Just look on his form, how slim (if it is right to say that about him) he was. This is achieved through hours and hours of training. In my opinion, it is not that Tyson Fury was lazy, it is Usyk who was better than him. But I can accept the fact that Fury is just old for boxing. Look at his career in past and now. He was furious, and now in two last fights he was knocked downed, and in the second time saved by referee.

Topic: [ POLL ] The Unification Fight: FURY vs USYK 17th FEBRUARY 2024 - page 13. (Read 4942 times)