[ POLL ] The Unification Fight: FURY vs USYK 17th FEBRUARY 2024 - page 7.

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Quote from: JollyGood on July 08, 2024, 04:59:09 AM

Fury will be desperate to win therefore could make many mistakes, that is a possibility. At the same time Usyk also will be desperate to win and he also could make errors resulting in a loss. Overall, you would expect Fury to make more mistakes and Usyk to make less however this is heavyweight boxing and when two fantastic athletes are in the ring at close proximity throwing punches at each other, anything could happen.

I disagree on Usyk also being desperate for this considering what we have witnessed during their fight. On the original fight Usyk was having some difficulty during the beginning, however, there was no desperation that occurred. It was Tyson Fury who became desperate and Usyk has noticed this and has taken advantage.

But what might cause a loss for Usyk might be the underestimation on Tyson Fury because Fury might put more fat and size for this rematch and the tactic might not be to box against Usyk, it will be to find the knockout quickly during the rounds 1 to 5.

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Quote from: South Park on July 08, 2024, 07:08:45 PM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on July 08, 2024, 12:52:41 AM

Quote from: JollyGood on July 06, 2024, 04:50:11 PM

The poll in this thread is in danger of becoming excessively one-sided. It currently stands at Fury:5 and Usyk:12

By the time the fight takes place and the poll is locked, I think the gap could get even bigger for Usyk to win but if I had pick a winner I would choose Fury because he would be more desperate to win and prove a point whereas Usyk already beat him and made the very same point.

However, it can be argued that Tyson Fury's desperation might cause him to become more careless in the fight. I voted for Fury before but it appears that compared to Usyk, he was very much overestimated because for this, size does not matter. Usyk is a more intelligent boxer and to win against him, the Tyson Fury should fight more intelligently. He certainly cannot do this if he is desperate. Also, desperation does not give a boxer more skill or strength. This only gives more weakness, I reckon.

Another issue for Fury is that as we know the champ is given the benefit of the doubt by the judges, so if there is a close round which could go either way, the judges will be more inclined to give that round to the current champion, so unlike his previous fight with Usyk, Fury will be at a small disadvantage from the beginning, forcing him to be more aggressive than what he may like and Usyk may take the opportunity to connect more solid punches, which makes me think Usyk has a higher chance to win by a KO this time around.

It might be, but how about the first fight? Both are champions and so the judges are having a hard time who's going to win the round unless it was really very clear and convincing? It could be a practice if the champion is really level up against the challenger. But still in this fight, Usyk might be the favorite as obviously he had all the belts now and has beaten Fury, but still it might not be a big advantage as it could still be 50/50 fight and judges will still need to be fair and not biased just because Usyk has the title that they are going to give him 10-9 in close rounds.

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on July 08, 2024, 12:52:41 AM

Quote from: JollyGood on July 06, 2024, 04:50:11 PM

The poll in this thread is in danger of becoming excessively one-sided. It currently stands at Fury:5 and Usyk:12

By the time the fight takes place and the poll is locked, I think the gap could get even bigger for Usyk to win but if I had pick a winner I would choose Fury because he would be more desperate to win and prove a point whereas Usyk already beat him and made the very same point.

However, it can be argued that Tyson Fury's desperation might cause him to become more careless in the fight. I voted for Fury before but it appears that compared to Usyk, he was very much overestimated because for this, size does not matter. Usyk is a more intelligent boxer and to win against him, the Tyson Fury should fight more intelligently. He certainly cannot do this if he is desperate. Also, desperation does not give a boxer more skill or strength. This only gives more weakness, I reckon.

Another issue for Fury is that as we know the champ is given the benefit of the doubt by the judges, so if there is a close round which could go either way, the judges will be more inclined to give that round to the current champion, so unlike his previous fight with Usyk, Fury will be at a small disadvantage from the beginning, forcing him to be more aggressive than what he may like and Usyk may take the opportunity to connect more solid punches, which makes me think Usyk has a higher chance to win by a KO this time around.

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Quote from: TopTort777 on July 08, 2024, 02:20:13 AM

Not much of a Wilder fan, as he is fake heavyweight that is able to throw long, straight from Alabama overhands and straight punches. But despite all being said are theories and fake, there is no smoke without fire. Anyway, my point was, if Fury is able to use ~~dirty boxing~~ advantage of his weight in clinch, why did not he use it against smaller Usyk?

Usyk is a much better fighter than Wilder and was able to mostly avoid Fury’s clinches through his superior movement and defense. Also, Fury has some defensive weaknesses. We could see that when he was hurt and started bleeding from very early on from one of the first clean punches that Usyk landed.

In order to make it a tough, physical fight he would’ve needed to stay in a range where he was most vulnerable. Using his length to outbox Usyk was working well for Fury but he lacked the stamina to maintain this strategy for the entire fight.

Fury’s dilemma is that despite his clear advantages, Usyk is just more well rounded and can make the adjustments necessary to counter Fury. Even when he is in deep waters and down on the scorecards, Usyk can still find a way to turn things in his favor.

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We all saw Fury seemingly not preparing for the rematch when he was supposedly extremely drunk at a pub. I think those are the sort of underlying messages that give the opponent the belief they will win the fight and Usyk was surely given a boost when he saw those photos and read the stories. I nave no doubt Usyk will prepare as a true professional but for Usyk the problem is not about his training protocol it is more about uncertainty as to which Tyson Fury will turn up for the fight. If it is the showboat the Ngannou nearly beat then Usyk will win within a few rounds but if it is the beast that destroyed Wilder in their trilogy then I think Usyk is in for a tough night.

Quote from: nimogsm on July 08, 2024, 06:23:48 AM

There is one difference between these two boxers: one of them takes preparation very seriously and this is Usyk. Even at the rematch, I am more than sure that he will show an even better result since he will take into account all the mistakes that were made. The opponent is larger in size and in a close fight Fury pinned Usyk,this time I think we will see even more surprises for Fury

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on July 08, 2024, 12:52:41 AM

Quote from: JollyGood on July 06, 2024, 04:50:11 PM

The poll in this thread is in danger of becoming excessively one-sided. It currently stands at Fury:5 and Usyk:12

By the time the fight takes place and the poll is locked, I think the gap could get even bigger for Usyk to win but if I had pick a winner I would choose Fury because he would be more desperate to win and prove a point whereas Usyk already beat him and made the very same point.

However, it can be argued that Tyson Fury's desperation might cause him to become more careless in the fight. I voted for Fury before but it appears that compared to Usyk, he was very much overestimated because for this, size does not matter. Usyk is a more intelligent boxer and to win against him, the Tyson Fury should fight more intelligently. He certainly cannot do this if he is desperate. Also, desperation does not give a boxer more skill or strength. This only gives more weakness, I reckon.

There is one difference between these two boxers: one of them takes preparation very seriously and this is Usyk. Even at the rematch, I am more than sure that he will show an even better result since he will take into account all the mistakes that were made. The opponent is larger in size and in a close fight Fury pinned Usyk,this time I think we will see even more surprises for Fury

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on July 08, 2024, 12:52:41 AM

However, it can be argued that Tyson Fury's desperation might cause him to become more careless in the fight. I voted for Fury before but it appears that compared to Usyk, he was very much overestimated because for this, size does not matter. Usyk is a more intelligent boxer and to win against him, the Tyson Fury should fight more intelligently. He certainly cannot do this if he is desperate. Also, desperation does not give a boxer more skill or strength. This only gives more weakness, I reckon.

Fury will be desperate to win therefore could make many mistakes, that is a possibility. At the same time Usyk also will be desperate to win and he also could make errors resulting in a loss. Overall, you would expect Fury to make more mistakes and Usyk to make less however this is heavyweight boxing and when two fantastic athletes are in the ring at close proximity throwing punches at each other, anything could happen.

Quote from: TravelMug on July 08, 2024, 04:28:56 AM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on July 08, 2024, 12:52:41 AM

However, it can be argued that Tyson Fury's desperation might cause him to become more careless in the fight. I voted for Fury before but it appears that compared to Usyk, he was very much overestimated because for this, size does not matter. Usyk is a more intelligent boxer and to win against him, the Tyson Fury should fight more intelligently. He certainly cannot do this if he is desperate. Also, desperation does not give a boxer more skill or strength. This only gives more weakness, I reckon.

Or it could work for Fury if he is desperate or at least lets say in the last half of the half and if his corner tells that he is way behind in the scorecard and the only thing for him to win is to knockout Usyk or knock him down to score in the judges scorecard and so maybe he can sway the fight for him. However, will his corner having has the guts to tell Fury that if he want he see him in the first 6 rounds? Or just tell him to do what he is doing because he is winning the fight? So it can really backfire or motivate Fury is he goes on desperation mode and adjust during the fight itself.

That is the thing, if Fury starts the fight by swinging punches left, right and centre in first two rounds will Usyk be able to withstand it? Even if that fails, I am sure Fury will have other game plans. Asa for Usyk, he is a technical expert and will be supremely confident he will win the rematch no matter what Fury does.

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on July 08, 2024, 12:52:41 AM

Quote from: JollyGood on July 06, 2024, 04:50:11 PM

The poll in this thread is in danger of becoming excessively one-sided. It currently stands at Fury:5 and Usyk:12

By the time the fight takes place and the poll is locked, I think the gap could get even bigger for Usyk to win but if I had pick a winner I would choose Fury because he would be more desperate to win and prove a point whereas Usyk already beat him and made the very same point.

However, it can be argued that Tyson Fury's desperation might cause him to become more careless in the fight. I voted for Fury before but it appears that compared to Usyk, he was very much overestimated because for this, size does not matter. Usyk is a more intelligent boxer and to win against him, the Tyson Fury should fight more intelligently. He certainly cannot do this if he is desperate. Also, desperation does not give a boxer more skill or strength. This only gives more weakness, I reckon.

Or it could work for Fury if he is desperate or at least lets say in the last half of the half and if his corner tells that he is way behind in the scorecard and the only thing for him to win is to knockout Usyk or knock him down to score in the judges scorecard and so maybe he can sway the fight for him. However, will his corner having has the guts to tell Fury that if he want he see him in the first 6 rounds? Or just tell him to do what he is doing because he is winning the fight? So it can really backfire or motivate Fury is he goes on desperation mode and adjust during the fight itself.

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Quote from: FinneysTrueVision on July 05, 2024, 11:56:23 PM

~

Not much of a Wilder fan, as he is fake heavyweight that is able to throw long, straight from Alabama overhands and straight punches. But despite all being said are theories and fake, there is no smoke without fire. Anyway, my point was, if Fury is able to use ~~dirty boxing~~ advantage of his weight in clinch, why did not he use it against smaller Usyk?

Quote from: MarvinHagler on July 06, 2024, 10:33:35 AM

If you seriously think Fury cheated or any of the other ridiculous conspiracy theories, you are a low IQ individual.

If you think that Fury is the most clean, fair and honest fighter, fought all his fight clean, and never cheated or used any close to point deduction methods, than it is you, who is low IQ individual.

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Quote from: JollyGood on July 06, 2024, 04:50:11 PM

The poll in this thread is in danger of becoming excessively one-sided. It currently stands at Fury:5 and Usyk:12

By the time the fight takes place and the poll is locked, I think the gap could get even bigger for Usyk to win but if I had pick a winner I would choose Fury because he would be more desperate to win and prove a point whereas Usyk already beat him and made the very same point.

However, it can be argued that Tyson Fury's desperation might cause him to become more careless in the fight. I voted for Fury before but it appears that compared to Usyk, he was very much overestimated because for this, size does not matter. Usyk is a more intelligent boxer and to win against him, the Tyson Fury should fight more intelligently. He certainly cannot do this if he is desperate. Also, desperation does not give a boxer more skill or strength. This only gives more weakness, I reckon.

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Quote from: Kemarit on July 06, 2024, 09:12:27 PM

Or that our boxing fans here really doubt that Fury can adjust in the rematch and beat Usyk. Only way I think Fury can win could be in judges scorecard. But it should be a clear win round for him before we can really say that he won.

There could be more controversies here if Fury got the judges nod, but for us boxing fans who watch the fight, he clearly losses. So maybe this kind of scenario might happen, Fury winning and then they will go for the jugular of a trilogy, bigger money for both camps.

The trilogy is what most neutral boxing fans would like to see but there is no guarantee that will happen. As for Fury winning only by a points decision, if you look back at the fight especially between rounds 4-6 you will see that Usyk came close to going down after a couple of occasions when Fury connected with combinations and used the jab effectively. The outcome is not clear.

Quote from: LogitechMouse on July 06, 2024, 10:04:55 PM

The fight will happen 5 months from now. It's still a long time and for sure, the poll will end up in a close one.

Like you, I also want Fury to win in this match. I mean we know he's capable of winning. He also said in one interview that he became too complacent that he got knocked down in the 9th round, causing him to lose the match eventually. He even defeated one of the most dangerous heavyweight fighters years ago in Wilder. Aside from that, I always want a trilogy between 2 fighters, and this is a perfect one.

Fury can beat Usyk that's for sure. He has the height and reach advantage, and even the power I believe.

After the enormous effort that Fury went through in his trilogy with Wilder, he has never really fought with the same passion and desire. Maybe this was the defeat he needed to restart that desire inside him. As you mentioned, the rematch will happen after five months and maybe others will start leaning towards Fury to win Grin

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Quote from: JollyGood on July 06, 2024, 04:50:11 PM

The poll in this thread is in danger of becoming excessively one-sided. It currently stands at Fury:5 and Usyk:12

By the time the fight takes place and the poll is locked, I think the gap could get even bigger for Usyk to win but if I had pick a winner I would choose Fury because he would be more desperate to win and prove a point whereas Usyk already beat him and made the very same point.

The fight will happen 5 months from now. It's still a long time and for sure, the poll will end up in a close one.

Like you, I also want Fury to win in this match. I mean we know he's capable of winning. He also said in one interview that he became too complacent that he got knocked down in the 9th round, causing him to lose the match eventually. He even defeated one of the most dangerous heavyweight fighters years ago in Wilder. Aside from that, I always want a trilogy between 2 fighters, and this is a perfect one.

Fury can beat Usyk that's for sure. He has the height and reach advantage, and even the power I believe.

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Quote from: JollyGood on July 06, 2024, 04:50:11 PM

The poll in this thread is in danger of becoming excessively one-sided. It currently stands at Fury:5 and Usyk:12

By the time the fight takes place and the poll is locked, I think the gap could get even bigger for Usyk to win but if I had pick a winner I would choose Fury because he would be more desperate to win and prove a point whereas Usyk already beat him and made the very same point.

Or that our boxing fans here really doubt that Fury can adjust in the rematch and beat Usyk. Only way I think Fury can win could be in judges scorecard. But it should be a clear win round for him before we can really say that he won.

There could be more controversies here if Fury got the judges nod, but for us boxing fans who watch the fight, he clearly losses. So maybe this kind of scenario might happen, Fury winning and then they will go for the jugular of a trilogy, bigger money for both camps.

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The poll in this thread is in danger of becoming excessively one-sided. It currently stands at Fury:5 and Usyk:12

By the time the fight takes place and the poll is locked, I think the gap could get even bigger for Usyk to win but if I had pick a winner I would choose Fury because he would be more desperate to win and prove a point whereas Usyk already beat him and made the very same point.

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Quote from: TopTort777 on July 04, 2024, 05:18:27 AM

Wasnt Fury leaning on Wilder, making him lose stamina while they were in clinch? There is nothing positive if during fight a +120kg guy hung on your shoulders. Wasnt there also something tricky with one of his gloves? I remember pictures of it and people pointing that it looks strange. Due to long hands, when dodging, Fury sometimes likes to headlock (lock opponents head and neck between his body and arm, and hold like this) opponents.

If you seriously think Fury cheated or any of the other ridiculous conspiracy theories, you are a low IQ individual.

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Quote from: TopTort777 on July 04, 2024, 05:40:46 AM

https://qr.ae/psjbap <- here is what I have found on quora about Fury dirty tricks.

A few blurry, out of context screenshots from a random Quora user don’t really prove much. Labeling someone as dirty for imposing their physical advantages is kind of subjective. None of the tactics Fury used against Wilder would be enough to merit a point deduction or disqualification.

Quote from: TopTort777 on July 04, 2024, 05:40:46 AM

This is when Fury got caught with cheating glove first https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMSVjTp0A9I

He had a defective glove which was immediately replaced as soon as it was noticed and before the fight even began. Using gloves with a detached thumbs has been the standard for most of boxing’s history. There isn’t much of an advantage you gain from this. It might result in an accidental eye poke but then the fight would have ended in a no contest.

Quote from: TopTort777 on July 04, 2024, 05:40:46 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CZqV2uLrrA <--- this is a glove in a fight against Wilder. This cant be "all of a sudden", "we havent noticed", "by mistake" or any bs explanation like that. This can be accepted in local amateur boxing fight. But in a fight of such level, even a tiny advantage play a huge role.

I don’t see anything wrong with Fury’s glove. This ridiculous conspiracy theory was already debunked by fighters like Ishe Smith. https://youtu.be/WSAQINlOYzo?t=650

Wilder and his idiotic fans came up with a million excuses for losing that fight, it only made them a laughingstock.

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on July 05, 2024, 10:16:02 PM

Quote from: JollyGood on July 03, 2024, 10:56:40 AM

~snip~

The punch appeared to be under the beltline when it was approaching the short pants of Usyk, however, when the punch touched Usyk it is certainly not under the beltline. It was on the beltline. I will not be shocked if this punch has given Usyk a big profusion of low bowel movement after the fight.

Also, @pawel7777 is correct. This only happened because the abdominal muscles were relaxed. This might have occurred while Usyk was inhaling. Tyson Fury was trying to repeat it, however, Usyk's abdomen was always ready and flexing heheheheh.

In any case, is everyone excited for this rematch? I am not anymore. It might be more exciting to witness Bivol go to heavyweight and challenge Usyk if Bivol is victorious against Beterbiev.

For me, the punch was legal, Usyk was hurt, and he was saved by Pabon. If he wasn't given sufficient time to recover from that beltline blow, Dubois would have won via knockout.

Dubois is a gifted puncher. Whether relaxed or not, a perfect strong blow to the abdomen like that would hurt any boxer.

Bivol to the heavyweight? That's quite a leap. He only weighed 175 lbs. in his last fight while Usyk was more than 230 lbs. against Fury. He could climb to cruiserweight though if he feels like he is having a hard time making 175.

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Quote from: JollyGood on July 03, 2024, 10:56:40 AM

I cannot be sure but at the time I think my initial reaction was if the referee was going to stop the fight as Usyk seemed in no state to continue (because of the shaking right arm), how would he end the fight. The only way it was going to end as a no contest was if he concluded Dubois hit Usyk below the belt line. If that happened, either he would have been disqualified or had points deducted (which would have been irrelevant in a no contest) therefore I am glad the bout continued.

Even today people are debating about that punch and there is no consensus. When we look at that punch it appears people are concluding different outcomes:

Quote from: pawel7777 on July 01, 2024, 05:39:07 PM

I didn't notice that shaking hand before, but I've just rewatched it and yeah, that looked really unusual. He must've been really hurt.
It could be that Dubois caught him when his abdominal muscles were relaxed, or maybe the impact was big enough to shock his liver.
Anyhow, he did weather the storm and took hi revenge. And as far as the official record goes, he still hasn't been knocked down in his professional career.

The punch appeared to be under the beltline when it was approaching the short pants of Usyk, however, when the punch touched Usyk it is certainly not under the beltline. It was on the beltline. I will not be shocked if this punch has given Usyk a big profusion of low bowel movement after the fight.

Also, @pawel7777 is correct. This only happened because the abdominal muscles were relaxed. This might have occurred while Usyk was inhaling. Tyson Fury was trying to repeat it, however, Usyk's abdomen was always ready and flexing heheheheh.

In any case, is everyone excited for this rematch? I am not anymore. It might be more exciting to witness Bivol go to heavyweight and challenge Usyk if Bivol is victorious against Beterbiev.

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There were further punches thrown by Dubois in that fight there were lower than the one that out Usyk on the canvas but in those instances Usyk showed signs of taking the punch with a little discomfort but did not collapse to the floor. I found that very strange. You are right about the shorts not being equal and not only that the referee does state (or at least should) before the fight where the limit is and I think I read somewhere it should be the naval.

In the case of Dubois hitting him in the controversial punch, Usyk was in pain and his right arm was shaking while he tried to recover. There seemed to be no chance he would get up and fight, he need several minutes to recover before the bout continued. What would have been extraordinary is if the referee counted and awarded the fight to Dubois by KO. If that had happened there would have been court cases trying to get the decision overturned.

Quote from: hilariousetc on July 05, 2024, 09:55:29 AM

It's 50/50 for me. What adds even more confusion is the ref can, and does state, before the fight where the belt line is and what he will count as a low blow etc so it can fluctuate from fight to fight and from ref to ref. Some refs will say on the belt is legal whilst others will say illegal. The trouble is is that not all shorts are equal either. Some fighters have huge shorts with massive beltlines and they pull them up as far as the possibly can to give themselves an advantage. They should probably crack down on these factors as boxers continually abuse it in my opinion.

As for Usyk, I think if the ref started counting Usyk would have got up and soldiered on, or tried to at least. He's skilled enough to just dance with Dubois whilst he tries to recover.

https://www.dazn.com/en-GB/news/boxing/oleksandr-usyk-vs-daniel-dubois-boxing-referee-explains-low-blow-rule/r5p0k74id5rbzbrw771xnxe1

Topic: [ POLL ] The Unification Fight: FURY vs USYK 17th FEBRUARY 2024 - page 7. (Read 4907 times)