[ POLL ] The Unification Fight: FURY vs USYK 17th FEBRUARY 2024 - page 8.

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Quote from: JollyGood on June 08, 2024, 12:57:59 PM

Quote from: TopTort777 on June 07, 2024, 04:23:25 AM

But wait, Fury is famous for having meltdowns.

I never saw Fury have a meltdown before, I have seen him come out with a whole lot of funny rants during interviews and crazy behaviour to grab the attention and headlines. Personally, I think most of what he does is for the cameras and is very well choreographed therefore not spontaneous but I could be wrong maybe they were meltdowns Grin

Either I incorrectly translate or understand word meltdown, but isnt it when person goes crazy? The moment when he got bipolar disorder? The moment when he had alcohol addiction. The moment when he was so depressed, that he wanted to crash his car and commit a suicide? Last two fights shows that Fury isnt Fury used to be. There is something with his head definitely. Knockdown from Ngannou, knockdown and save by ref in fight against Usyk. What would we get from third fight? A knockout?

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Quote from: inthelongrun on June 08, 2024, 08:52:42 PM

Anyways, I can see an easier win by Usyk over Fury in the rematch. Fury can trim himself down to be gain some speed but still not enough or he can gain more weight to absorb Usyk's punches but he'll be slower. I think AJ will beat Dubois. Dubois would've lost to Hrgovic and he will be stopped if there's a rematch. But Usyk if he wins over Fury and decides to continue fighting, he wanted to drop down back to cruiserweight and tries to become undisputed again which I doubt happens considering his age.

It has happened, the poll is now showing more votes for Usyk to win rather than for Fury to win (it currently stands at 5 for Usyk and 4 for Fury) therefore a slim majority at the moment agree with your views about Usyk winning the rematch. I think it will be a lot closer than people think. Fury will be extremely anxious to win the rematch and take this to a financially lucrative trilogy but keeping the money factor aside, I think Fury will be hurt by this defeat therefore the only redemption he probably sees for his ego and bragging rights would be a win.

Usyk obviously will have other idea and expects to win the rematch but sometimes matters to not unfold according to the game plan. Whatever happens it will be a good fight to watch.

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Quote from: pawel7777 on June 08, 2024, 05:47:49 AM

OK, so I was wrong and the IBF introduced the interim belt and put it on the line in Hrgovic Vs Dubois.
I'm not sure if that means that Usyk is now more or less likely to get stripped. Maybe he won't get stripped, but the purpose of interim belts was always to act as a replacement for when the original champ is unable to fight. But, if the IBF decides not to take it away from Usyk, we'll have a situation where we'll have 2 IBF title defences in parallel, one for the normal belt, and one for the interim one. So that would be quite a departure from what you'd normally expect to see.

And if Usyk wins the rematch with Fury, I have my doubts if he'll be interested in fighting the winner of Dubois Vs AJ, as he already fought both of them fairly recently (AJ twice). If Fury comes on the top in the rematch, a fight between him and Joshua (if he wins as well) would be a big one and long overdue.

I would've preferred if the IBF just follow its rules but as I also mentioned earlier, they're no longer that firm since Daryl Peoples assumed leadership. If I'm Dubois and I wanted the title shot badly, I'd be more worried that I am holding the IBF interim now, there can be more excuses for the real champion not to fight just like the case of Benavidez and the other interim belt holders in the past.

Anyways, I can see an easier win by Usyk over Fury in the rematch. Fury can trim himself down to be gain some speed but still not enough or he can gain more weight to absorb Usyk's punches but he'll be slower. I think AJ will beat Dubois. Dubois would've lost to Hrgovic and he will be stopped if there's a rematch. But Usyk if he wins over Fury and decides to continue fighting, he wanted to drop down back to cruiserweight and tries to become undisputed again which I doubt happens considering his age.

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Quote from: TopTort777 on June 07, 2024, 04:23:25 AM

But wait, Fury is famous for having meltdowns.

I never saw Fury have a meltdown before, I have seen him come out with a whole lot of funny rants during interviews and crazy behaviour to grab the attention and headlines. Personally, I think most of what he does is for the cameras and is very well choreographed therefore not spontaneous but I could be wrong maybe they were meltdowns Grin

Quote from: satscraper on June 07, 2024, 05:17:27 AM

The weak part of Usyk's body is a torso thus should FURY punch it frequently Usyk could reel. Probably this is patrimony of his childhood. After match I have read Usyk's biography and learnt that being in child ages he pфв health problem related with his lungs. Nevertheless, I will keep my fingers crossed for him in rematch.

Now that Fury and Usyk have been in the ring for 12 rounds they must know a lot more about each other than before including when and where to hit as well as other tactics. We will see what they have learned about each other when they enter the ring for the rematch in December.

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OK, so I was wrong and the IBF introduced the interim belt and put it on the line in Hrgovic Vs Dubois.
I'm not sure if that means that Usyk is now more or less likely to get stripped. Maybe he won't get stripped, but the purpose of interim belts was always to act as a replacement for when the original champ is unable to fight. But, if the IBF decides not to take it away from Usyk, we'll have a situation where we'll have 2 IBF title defences in parallel, one for the normal belt, and one for the interim one. So that would be quite a departure from what you'd normally expect to see.

And if Usyk wins the rematch with Fury, I have my doubts if he'll be interested in fighting the winner of Dubois Vs AJ, as he already fought both of them fairly recently (AJ twice). If Fury comes on the top in the rematch, a fight between him and Joshua (if he wins as well) would be a big one and long overdue.

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The weak part of Usyk's body is a torso thus should FURY punch it frequently Usyk could reel. Probably this is patrimony of his childhood. After match I have read Usyk's biography and learnt that being in child ages he had health problem related with his lungs. Nevertheless, I will keep my fingers crossed for him in rematch.

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Quote from: JollyGood on June 06, 2024, 04:27:09 PM

Quote from: TopTort777 on June 06, 2024, 06:04:34 AM

After fight against Usyk, AJ also told that he would be ready for a rematch. But it all ended with split and "how did you beat me?".

After he was beaten for the second time (in the rematch), Joshua seemed to have suffered some sort of mental meltdown. When he took the microphone in the ring and asked Usyk how he managed to beat him, it was a sad sight. Joshua stated something he was the one that was bigger and stronger yet he lost.

If the rematch between Fury and Usyk goes ahead we will not see Fury or Usyk having a meltdown in defeat.

But wait, Fury is famous for having meltdowns. However, I am more curious if we would get anything new in a rematch. Btw, Usyk never has never lost in rematches. Joshua, amateur career, won twice Beterbiev. Each time he was better in a rematch. Lets look on this from Fury point of view. He think he would because he won some rounds in their first fight? So far not a single heavyweight showed a real challenge for Usyk. Only in cruiserweights, a fight against Mairis Briedis was the most difficult for Usyk during professional career.

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Quote from: Kemarit on June 06, 2024, 05:42:14 PM

Why you surmise that Fury will have a stunning victory in the rematch, besides the biggest purse in boxing in the trilogy?

I did not summarise, I stated he could possibly win the rematch. Likewise, Usyk could also win or the other alternative is a draw.

Quote from: Kemarit on June 06, 2024, 05:42:14 PM

Well the poll is now at 4-4 therefore the members that believe Usyk will win have started to cast their votes Grin

There were 21 votes cast in the previous poll (for the first fight) and it was heavily in favour of Fury to win 14-7 which made it 66% of the voters believed Fury was going to win but just 33% believed Usyk was going to win. This time the polling is equal at 50% each.

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Quote from: JollyGood on June 06, 2024, 05:38:25 AM

Just five votes have been cast in the rematch poll and we are on 4 for Fury and 1 for Usyk.

There is something in the air about Fury possibly getting a stunning victory to exact revenge for the loss he suffered last month. Put it this way, if Usyk wins that would be the end of the matter but if Fury wins, both boxers and their teams will have to go where the money goes and will lead to a blockbuster trilogy.

Why you surmise that Fury will have a stunning victory in the rematch, besides the biggest purse in boxing in the trilogy? We haven't seen Fury beaten and response to the next fight. Maybe he will be like Wilder as well when he beat him and took everything from Wilder as Deontay was never be the same again and had mental breakdown. Same with AJ, when Usyk beat him, he had some sort of Psychological meltdown, although he was able to recover unlike Wilder.

Quote from: JollyGood on June 06, 2024, 05:38:25 AM

We need more votes in the poll Grin

I submitted my vote and it will be Usyk for me all the way.

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Quote from: TopTort777 on June 06, 2024, 06:04:34 AM

After fight against Usyk, AJ also told that he would be ready for a rematch. But it all ended with split and "how did you beat me?".

After he was beaten for the second time (in the rematch), Joshua seemed to have suffered some sort of mental meltdown. When he took the microphone in the ring and asked Usyk how he managed to beat him, it was a sad sight. Joshua stated something he was the one that was bigger and stronger yet he lost.

If the rematch between Fury and Usyk goes ahead we will not see Fury or Usyk having a meltdown in defeat.

Quote from: btc_angela on June 06, 2024, 06:23:58 AM

I cast my vote for a Usyk win, he already defeated Fury in the first fight and I doubt that he can make the necessary adjustment in the rematch.

At least the votes in the poll are increasing Grin

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Quote from: JollyGood on June 06, 2024, 05:38:25 AM

Just five votes have been cast in the rematch poll and we are on 4 for Fury and 1 for Usyk.

There is something in the air about Fury possibly getting a stunning victory to exact revenge for the loss he suffered last month. Put it this way, if Usyk wins that would be the end of the matter but if Fury wins, both boxers and their teams will have to go where the money goes and will lead to a blockbuster trilogy.

We need more votes in the poll Grin

I cast my vote for a Usyk win, he already defeated Fury in the first fight and I doubt that he can make the necessary adjustment in the rematch. Although if we talk about how rich will be that trilogy, who knows, maybe Usyk will give him a slack (not saying that he will intentionally take a dive) and then win in the judges card.

But barring all circumstance, I don't see the Ukrainian willing to do that for the sake of money. He is too proud to be the HW unified champion and it's been a long time since we see it. So I will say that Usyk finished Fury again and again, proved that he is the best HW in this new era.

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Quote from: JollyGood on June 06, 2024, 05:38:25 AM

Just five votes have been cast in the rematch poll and we are on 4 for Fury and 1 for Usyk.

There is something in the air about Fury possibly getting a stunning victory to exact revenge for the loss he suffered last month. Put it this way, if Usyk wins that would be the end of the matter but if Fury wins, both boxers and their teams will have to go where the money goes and will lead to a blockbuster trilogy.

We need more votes in the poll Grin

Made some correction in poll Cheesy

Who are those 4 that expect Fury to win? From the fight I saw, it did not look that Fury got something special, ace in the hole or Usyk won unfair. I just dont get what are in peoples mind. They think that Fury will not train twice as hard, but Usyk would chill till December and would not make any correction in tactics. People probably think that "yeah, now Fury has learned Usyk and know what to expect". Usyk now knows Fury also and I suspect, that this time he wont let him go in the ropes and no judge would help him.

After fight against Usyk, AJ also told that he would be ready for a rematch. But it all ended with split and "how did you beat me?".

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Just five votes have been cast in the rematch poll and we are on 4 for Fury and 1 for Usyk.

There is something in the air about Fury possibly getting a stunning victory to exact revenge for the loss he suffered last month. Put it this way, if Usyk wins that would be the end of the matter but if Fury wins, both boxers and their teams will have to go where the money goes and will lead to a blockbuster trilogy.

We need more votes in the poll Grin

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Quote from: South Park on June 02, 2024, 02:00:21 PM

Quote from: TopTort777 on May 31, 2024, 04:18:24 AM

Since you are talking about belts, I want to make it clear, Fury wants a rematch because he wants his belts back, or he wants to avenge his only loss in boxing? In case Usyk looses one of his belts for any reason, would Fury be interested in rematch? Why not make it fight the way Fury had against Ngannou? Make a fight to find out who really is the best heavyweight again.

Anyone knows if in the past there was also such a mess in division, belts and rematches?

Fury wants everything, he wants revenge, the belts, the undisputed, the fame and the money, so even if Usyk was stripped from his IBF belt, there are enough reasons for Fury to want the rematch against Usyk, besides if he does not take the option now that Usyk is contractually obligated to fight him, there is no way to tell if he will ever have the chance to fight him again.

And concerning the past, boxing has always been kind of a mess since we can have mandatory challengers, interim champions and national champions, and to make things even more complex there is also the concept of lineal champion, in which in order to be the man you have to beat the man, so there could be instances in which the lineal champion may not hold any of the belts of the four major boxing organizations.

Fury wants revenge at all cost, he is not happy that he lost to Usyk. This time around he is not interested in money he just want to prove that he is the man to be feared and respected in the industry. Fury still doesn't believe that he lost the match and lost his prestigious belt. This rematch you will see that fury won't be showing more interest in money the way he did during their first fight. You know that feeling when you have a reputation to maintain, he just want to make sure that he correct the little mistake that made him lost to Usyk. Left for Fury alone he is willing to do the rematch right away. But my advice to Fury is that he should not be consumed with the thought of revenge because he might still make some mistakes along the line. He would have retired before now, if he wanted to maintain an unbeaten career record, but his love for money put him in this mess. Good luck to him in the rematch, but I think Usyk is still going to beat him the second time.

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Quote from: South Park on June 02, 2024, 02:00:21 PM

Quote from: TopTort777 on May 31, 2024, 04:18:24 AM

Since you are talking about belts, I want to make it clear, Fury wants a rematch because he wants his belts back, or he wants to avenge his only loss in boxing? In case Usyk looses one of his belts for any reason, would Fury be interested in rematch? Why not make it fight the way Fury had against Ngannou? Make a fight to find out who really is the best heavyweight again.

Anyone knows if in the past there was also such a mess in division, belts and rematches?

Fury wants everything, he wants revenge, the belts, the undisputed, the fame and the money, so even if Usyk was stripped from his IBF belt, there are enough reasons for Fury to want the rematch against Usyk, besides if he does not take the option now that Usyk is contractually obligated to fight him, there is no way to tell if he will ever have the chance to fight him again.

And concerning the past, boxing has always been kind of a mess since we can have mandatory challengers, interim champions and national champions, and to make things even more complex there is also the concept of lineal champion, in which in order to be the man you have to beat the man, so there could be instances in which the lineal champion may not hold any of the belts of the four major boxing organizations.

Indeed. Too many reasons for Fury to activate the rematch. I guess the money alone is just too big to refuse. But I won't be surprised too if Fury all of a sudden withdraws again and postpone the rematch or who knows, won't fight Usyk again. I believe there are mental effects on that defeat, he was badly hurt and blooded and probably a broken nose that they're not telling the public which is why the rematch date is just too far from my expectations. Some fighters changed forever from that kind of defeat and we're about to find out if Fury.

I remember there were times when Marco Antonio Barrera and Ricky Hatton were lineal champs yet they held no belts from the big 4. Boxing is a corrupt sport, 4 major sanctioning bodies and The Ring belt which used to be the basis for the lineal champion. But after GBP purchased The Ring, there's conflict of interest already which is why another group (tbrb.org) was founded.

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Quote from: TopTort777 on May 31, 2024, 04:18:24 AM

Since you are talking about belts, I want to make it clear, Fury wants a rematch because he wants his belts back, or he wants to avenge his only loss in boxing? In case Usyk looses one of his belts for any reason, would Fury be interested in rematch? Why not make it fight the way Fury had against Ngannou? Make a fight to find out who really is the best heavyweight again.

Anyone knows if in the past there was also such a mess in division, belts and rematches?

Fury wants everything, he wants revenge, the belts, the undisputed, the fame and the money, so even if Usyk was stripped from his IBF belt, there are enough reasons for Fury to want the rematch against Usyk, besides if he does not take the option now that Usyk is contractually obligated to fight him, there is no way to tell if he will ever have the chance to fight him again.

And concerning the past, boxing has always been kind of a mess since we can have mandatory challengers, interim champions and national champions, and to make things even more complex there is also the concept of lineal champion, in which in order to be the man you have to beat the man, so there could be instances in which the lineal champion may not hold any of the belts of the four major boxing organizations.

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Quote from: hilariousetc on May 30, 2024, 04:02:52 AM

I don't think they should have stripped him as long as they agree to get the rematch done ASAP and give the mandatory as guaranteed slot against the winner. The rematch should still have all the belts on the line but they shouldn't be allowed to continually hold the division up and with the rematch now scheduled for December that's the whole year out of action. They should have tried to get the rematch done within a few months in my opinion.

I wonder how things are perceived from the boxing organisations point of view (be it the IBF or other). Is it better for them to have their belt being just a part of big bundle, or would that rather have their own, unique champion.
The truth is, if not for the risk of Usyk getting stripped, the IBF or Hrgovic would not get half the media coverage that they did receive in recent time. So it wouldn't surprise me if the IBF wanted to take the belt away from Usyk, just to appear more prestigious and uncompromising.

From a purely sport perspective, holding up the division and making the mandatory contender wait for over, with no concrete date in sight does not sounds very fair.

Anyhow, with 1 day to go, it's safe to say that there will be no interim belt on the line in the Hrgovic Vs. Dubois bout, so let's see how will things unfold after the fight.

In the new poll, I voted Fury. I simply think he will go all in as he's got nothing to lose. Plus, he performs better in rematches.

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Since you are talking about belts, I want to make it clear, Fury wants a rematch because he wants his belts back, or he wants to avenge his only loss in boxing? In case Usyk looses one of his belts for any reason, would Fury be interested in rematch? Why not make it fight the way Fury had against Ngannou? Make a fight to find out who really is the best heavyweight again.

Anyone knows if in the past there was also such a mess in division, belts and rematches?

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I hope there will be no problems with Fury and Usyk having their rematch in December with all of the titles on the line. If Usyk gets forced to surrender any of his belts by any of the boxing authorities then it will be a total injustice to the significance of the rematch. All of the boxing authorities are within their rights to force their champion to fight their number one ranked contender but they should keep in mind contractual agreements for rematches.

Quote from: Kemarit on May 30, 2024, 05:02:06 PM

Depends on which organization are going to let Usyk in this case he won the rematch and has all the belts fight next as their mandatory. So I don't think that the belt will all be in the line in his next fight. Unless the fighter that he is facing is the number 1 contender in all division, but that rarely happen.

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Quote from: KTChampions on May 30, 2024, 12:19:49 PM

Quote from: JollyGood on May 29, 2024, 05:03:32 PM

Quote from: KTChampions on May 29, 2024, 01:06:14 PM

It’s a pity that the loser has a chance for all the belts at once, it seems to me that this is not entirely fair, in my opinion, belts should be collected gradually and not taken away in a bunch (in this case, there may be too many undisputed champions if one loses to a second, a second to a third, etc. ).
It will be interesting to look at the quotes for the fight, the first fight was quoted as absolutely equal to 1.85 - 1.85.

If all the belts were available for the first fight and they had a two-fight clause, then I see no reason why all the belts should not be on the line for the rematch. There is still a chance any of the licencing bodies could come up with some reason to strip Usyk of any of his titles but that seems slim to zero after the IBF seems unlikely to strip Usyk of his belt.
~

Yes, it's true, no one wants to lose their belt (or belts on the first try) so a rematch should ideally have the same value as the first fight. But my reasoning concerns the general situation: let’s say Usyk wins the rematch, but then loses the next fight to some contender. If all the belts are at stake in that fight, then the contender will become the undisputed champion in one fight, in my opinion this should not happen. If I remember correctly, there are fights when one belt is at stake (although the boxer has others), this probably somehow solves this problem.

Depends on which organization are going to let Usyk in this case he won the rematch and has all the belts fight next as their mandatory. So I don't think that the belt will all be in the line in his next fight. Unless the fighter that he is facing is the number 1 contender in all division, but that rarely happen.

So in any case, it will be just one belt in the line in Usyk's next fight. And it's really hard to defend all your belt against all the mandatories of the 4 governing body. That's why there are times that the undisputed champion vacated at least 1 or 2 or even 3 of his belts and then focus on only 1 belt that is most important, usually it's the WBC.

Here is a recent example, Crawford who become undisputed at 140 lbs but then vacated the IBF belt in 2 weeks after unifying.

https://www.boxingnews24.com/2017/08/terence-crawford-vacates-ibf-140-lb-title/

Topic: [ POLL ] The Unification Fight: FURY vs USYK 17th FEBRUARY 2024 - page 8. (Read 4165 times)