[ POLL ] The Unification Fight: FURY vs USYK 17th FEBRUARY 2024 - page 5.

Darker45

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on July 05, 2024, 10:16:02 PM

Quote from: JollyGood on July 03, 2024, 10:56:40 AM

~snip~

The punch appeared to be under the beltline when it was approaching the short pants of Usyk, however, when the punch touched Usyk it is certainly not under the beltline. It was on the beltline. I will not be shocked if this punch has given Usyk a big profusion of low bowel movement after the fight.

Also, @pawel7777 is correct. This only happened because the abdominal muscles were relaxed. This might have occurred while Usyk was inhaling. Tyson Fury was trying to repeat it, however, Usyk's abdomen was always ready and flexing heheheheh.

In any case, is everyone excited for this rematch? I am not anymore. It might be more exciting to witness Bivol go to heavyweight and challenge Usyk if Bivol is victorious against Beterbiev.

For me, the punch was legal, Usyk was hurt, and he was saved by Pabon. If he wasn't given sufficient time to recover from that beltline blow, Dubois would have won via knockout.

Dubois is a gifted puncher. Whether relaxed or not, a perfect strong blow to the abdomen like that would hurt any boxer.

Bivol to the heavyweight? That's quite a leap. He only weighed 175 lbs. in his last fight while Usyk was more than 230 lbs. against Fury. He could climb to cruiserweight though if he feels like he is having a hard time making 175.

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Quote from: JollyGood on July 03, 2024, 10:56:40 AM

I cannot be sure but at the time I think my initial reaction was if the referee was going to stop the fight as Usyk seemed in no state to continue (because of the shaking right arm), how would he end the fight. The only way it was going to end as a no contest was if he concluded Dubois hit Usyk below the belt line. If that happened, either he would have been disqualified or had points deducted (which would have been irrelevant in a no contest) therefore I am glad the bout continued.

Even today people are debating about that punch and there is no consensus. When we look at that punch it appears people are concluding different outcomes:

Quote from: pawel7777 on July 01, 2024, 05:39:07 PM

I didn't notice that shaking hand before, but I've just rewatched it and yeah, that looked really unusual. He must've been really hurt.
It could be that Dubois caught him when his abdominal muscles were relaxed, or maybe the impact was big enough to shock his liver.
Anyhow, he did weather the storm and took hi revenge. And as far as the official record goes, he still hasn't been knocked down in his professional career.

The punch appeared to be under the beltline when it was approaching the short pants of Usyk, however, when the punch touched Usyk it is certainly not under the beltline. It was on the beltline. I will not be shocked if this punch has given Usyk a big profusion of low bowel movement after the fight.

Also, @pawel7777 is correct. This only happened because the abdominal muscles were relaxed. This might have occurred while Usyk was inhaling. Tyson Fury was trying to repeat it, however, Usyk's abdomen was always ready and flexing heheheheh.

In any case, is everyone excited for this rematch? I am not anymore. It might be more exciting to witness Bivol go to heavyweight and challenge Usyk if Bivol is victorious against Beterbiev.

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There were further punches thrown by Dubois in that fight there were lower than the one that out Usyk on the canvas but in those instances Usyk showed signs of taking the punch with a little discomfort but did not collapse to the floor. I found that very strange. You are right about the shorts not being equal and not only that the referee does state (or at least should) before the fight where the limit is and I think I read somewhere it should be the naval.

In the case of Dubois hitting him in the controversial punch, Usyk was in pain and his right arm was shaking while he tried to recover. There seemed to be no chance he would get up and fight, he need several minutes to recover before the bout continued. What would have been extraordinary is if the referee counted and awarded the fight to Dubois by KO. If that had happened there would have been court cases trying to get the decision overturned.

Quote from: hilariousetc on July 05, 2024, 09:55:29 AM

It's 50/50 for me. What adds even more confusion is the ref can, and does state, before the fight where the belt line is and what he will count as a low blow etc so it can fluctuate from fight to fight and from ref to ref. Some refs will say on the belt is legal whilst others will say illegal. The trouble is is that not all shorts are equal either. Some fighters have huge shorts with massive beltlines and they pull them up as far as the possibly can to give themselves an advantage. They should probably crack down on these factors as boxers continually abuse it in my opinion.

As for Usyk, I think if the ref started counting Usyk would have got up and soldiered on, or tried to at least. He's skilled enough to just dance with Dubois whilst he tries to recover.

https://www.dazn.com/en-GB/news/boxing/oleksandr-usyk-vs-daniel-dubois-boxing-referee-explains-low-blow-rule/r5p0k74id5rbzbrw771xnxe1

MarvinHagler

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Fury might get knocked out in the rematch.

How is he going to beat Usyk? He was getting killed on the inside, couldn't close the range when fighting on the outside and was fighting on the back foot for the majority of the match.

I genuinely cannot see how he beats Usyk barring a lucky one punch KO (anything can happen in heavyweight boxing).

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Quote from: JollyGood on July 03, 2024, 10:56:40 AM

I cannot be sure but at the time I think my initial reaction was if the referee was going to stop the fight as Usyk seemed in no state to continue (because of the shaking right arm), how would he end the fight. The only way it was going to end as a no contest was if he concluded Dubois hit Usyk below the belt line. If that happened, either he would have been disqualified or had points deducted (which would have been irrelevant in a no contest) therefore I am glad the bout continued.

Even today people are debating about that punch and there is no consensus. When we look at that punch it appears people are concluding different outcomes:

It's 50/50 for me. What adds even more confusion is the ref can, and does state, before the fight where the belt line is and what he will count as a low blow etc so it can fluctuate from fight to fight and from ref to ref. Some refs will say on the belt is legal whilst others will say illegal. The trouble is is that not all shorts are equal either. Some fighters have huge shorts with massive beltlines and they pull them up as far as the possibly can to give themselves an advantage. They should probably crack down on these factors as boxers continually abuse it in my opinion.

As for Usyk, I think if the ref started counting Usyk would have got up and soldiered on, or tried to at least. He's skilled enough to just dance with Dubois whilst he tries to recover.

https://www.dazn.com/en-GB/news/boxing/oleksandr-usyk-vs-daniel-dubois-boxing-referee-explains-low-blow-rule/r5p0k74id5rbzbrw771xnxe1

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Quote from: TopTort777 on July 04, 2024, 05:40:46 AM

Quote from: TravelMug on July 04, 2024, 05:21:54 AM

Fury to uses that tactic of hugging and leaning to them, hence putting all his weight.

https://qr.ae/psjbap <- here is what I have found on quora about Fury dirty tricks.

This is when Fury got caught with cheating glove first https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMSVjTp0A9I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CZqV2uLrrA <--- this is a glove in a fight against Wilder. This cant be "all of a sudden", "we havent noticed", "by mistake" or any bs explanation like that. This can be accepted in local amateur boxing fight. But in a fight of such level, even a tiny advantage play a huge role.

Anyway, if Fury knows all that tricks and used them before, why dont he used them against Usyk?

Again as I have said, maybe Usyk is anticipating that dirty tricks and so he is prepared and wanted the fight to happen in the middle of the ring. And if they will clinch, he will get out of it the soonest so Fury can't put and lean over his weight on the smaller Usyk.

And so Usyk was very efficient in this fight as he was able to adjust on the fly, while Fury, who knows to be a good tactician and technical fighter was somewhat very timid in that fight and whatever we look at the reply, he clearly lost to a better man in Usyk.

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"Styles make fights" Cheesy

Yeap, Usyk is experienced boxer and knows about dirty tricks. But they are all professionals. If one tactics does not work, they must try other. Kind of a game of chess. Strange that Usyk always win in it. Despite that "low blow" from Dubois, nobody ever caused any troubles to Usyk. Dunno what to do then. There definitely must be a weakness in Usyks boxing. Man cant be so perfect Cheesy

Are we getting the same fight with same scenario on December? If cant win fair, he should win unfair then Cheesy

By a huge cut and doctor stoppage.

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Quote from: TopTort777 on July 04, 2024, 05:40:46 AM

Quote from: TravelMug on July 04, 2024, 05:21:54 AM

Fury to uses that tactic of hugging and leaning to them, hence putting all his weight.

https://qr.ae/psjbap <- here is what I have found on quora about Fury dirty tricks.

This is when Fury got caught with cheating glove first https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMSVjTp0A9I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CZqV2uLrrA <--- this is a glove in a fight against Wilder. This cant be "all of a sudden", "we havent noticed", "by mistake" or any bs explanation like that. This can be accepted in local amateur boxing fight. But in a fight of such level, even a tiny advantage play a huge role.

Anyway, if Fury knows all that tricks and used them before, why dont he used them against Usyk?

Most likely Usyk already know this tactics and tricks of Fury before, and even Fury's long guard was neutralized by Usyk. Fury has been using this in his fight, long guard because of his long reach to offset his opponent coming in But this time, it's not effective because Usyk uses a lot of feint (long, high, and middle) to counter that physical advantage of him.

And probably this is the same reason why he can't even get closer to Usyk and uses that dirty trick of putting his weight. So in all, it was Usyk technical ability and his team was able to read Fury's style and they were able to put a good game plan.

So the ball is on the court of Fury in the rematch to adjust and come up with a new game plan of his against Usyk.

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Quote from: Questat on July 03, 2024, 04:43:20 AM

I'm curious, what kind of dirty boxing did Fury to Wilder? Honestly, I see that he fight clean on the last two wins against Wilder and that he completely dominated the fight. Usyk might just be a better fighter than Fury but with this rematch, we will see if Usyk can again beat Fury. The result of the last fight was a spit decision, so it was a close one and I believe that this rematch is just right because Fury had become a champion in a hard way and that one loss should not be enough to completely forget what he did.

He needs to win this one and if possible via KO to completely gain back his honor because, in their last fight, he could really have a chance to beat Usyk but he came up short in points also his performance is not the best we have seen so far may be due to his age and he became slower now but with dedications and training to get back the spotlight to him, this next fight will surely a ticket for a trilogy or the end of his era if he loses again this time.

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Quote from: TravelMug on July 04, 2024, 05:21:54 AM

Fury to uses that tactic of hugging and leaning to them, hence putting all his weight.

https://qr.ae/psjbap <- here is what I have found on quora about Fury dirty tricks.

This is when Fury got caught with cheating glove first https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMSVjTp0A9I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CZqV2uLrrA <--- this is a glove in a fight against Wilder. This cant be "all of a sudden", "we havent noticed", "by mistake" or any bs explanation like that. This can be accepted in local amateur boxing fight. But in a fight of such level, even a tiny advantage play a huge role.

Anyway, if Fury knows all that tricks and used them before, why dont he used them against Usyk?

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Quote from: Questat on July 03, 2024, 04:43:20 AM

Quote from: TopTort777 on July 03, 2024, 04:12:13 AM

Oooohhh, you have remembered a nice thing to discuss. In Fury last fights I totally havent seen one thing - dirty boxing. I remember Fury used to lean on Wilder. Why Fury havent used dirty boxing against Ngannou or Usyk. Was he to sure that he is leading in the fight? Yeah, that a good thing to discuss. What about dirty boxing, if boxers cant beat Usyk? Even though you can get a point deduction, you can get more benefits from dirty boxing in later rounds.

I'm curious, what kind of dirty boxing did Fury to Wilder? Honestly, I see that he fight clean on the last two wins against Wilder and that he completely dominated the fight. Usyk might just be a better fighter than Fury but with this rematch, we will see if Usyk can again beat Fury. The result of the last fight was a spit decision, so it was a close one and I believe that this rematch is just right because Fury had become a champion in a hard way and that one loss should not be enough to completely forget what he did.

I wouldn't call that a dirty boxing or what, it's that it was a strategy that he has been using and very effective. He might not be using if very often, but it the Wilder it was evident that he goes on this fight at one of his heaviest weight and when they clinch, he put all his weight on Wilder and so might affect Deontay and can sap all his energy.

But against Francis and Usyk, he can't as this two doesn't want to go and hug, they wanted the fight to happen in the center of the ring. And if they are cornered or Fury is cornered, they usually dart in and dart out, so to time for Fury to uses that tactic of hugging and leaning to them, hence putting all his weight.

Edit: @TopTort777 beat me to the explanation, Sad

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Quote from: Questat on July 03, 2024, 04:43:20 AM

Quote from: TopTort777 on July 03, 2024, 04:12:13 AM

Oooohhh, you have remembered a nice thing to discuss. In Fury last fights I totally havent seen one thing - dirty boxing. I remember Fury used to lean on Wilder. Why Fury havent used dirty boxing against Ngannou or Usyk. Was he to sure that he is leading in the fight? Yeah, that a good thing to discuss. What about dirty boxing, if boxers cant beat Usyk? Even though you can get a point deduction, you can get more benefits from dirty boxing in later rounds.

I'm curious, what kind of dirty boxing did Fury to Wilder? Honestly, I see that he fight clean on the last two wins against Wilder and that he completely dominated the fight. Usyk might just be a better fighter than Fury but with this rematch, we will see if Usyk can again beat Fury. The result of the last fight was a spit decision, so it was a close one and I believe that this rematch is just right because Fury had become a champion in a hard way and that one loss should not be enough to completely forget what he did.

Wasnt Fury leaning on Wilder, making him lose stamina while they were in clinch? There is nothing positive if during fight a +120kg guy hung on your shoulders. Wasnt there also something tricky with one of his gloves? I remember pictures of it and people pointing that it looks strange. Due to long hands, when dodging, Fury sometimes likes to headlock (lock opponents head and neck between his body and arm, and hold like this) opponents.

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Quote from: Questat on July 03, 2024, 04:43:20 AM

Quote from: TopTort777 on July 03, 2024, 04:12:13 AM

Oooohhh, you have remembered a nice thing to discuss. In Fury last fights I totally havent seen one thing - dirty boxing. I remember Fury used to lean on Wilder. Why Fury havent used dirty boxing against Ngannou or Usyk. Was he to sure that he is leading in the fight? Yeah, that a good thing to discuss. What about dirty boxing, if boxers cant beat Usyk? Even though you can get a point deduction, you can get more benefits from dirty boxing in later rounds.

I'm curious, what kind of dirty boxing did Fury to Wilder? Honestly, I see that he fight clean on the last two wins against Wilder and that he completely dominated the fight. Usyk might just be a better fighter than Fury but with this rematch, we will see if Usyk can again beat Fury. The result of the last fight was a spit decision, so it was a close one and I believe that this rematch is just right because Fury had become a champion in a hard way and that one loss should not be enough to completely forget what he did.

Hahaha...Although, Fury is not my kind of person with his show of arrogance most times but this shouldn't stop me from telling the truth. He fought Wilder very well then and I see nothing happened in the ring that is not common to boxing, he was professional. He even won him through a knockout, so I call that a clean win if must say.

As for the match between Fury and Usyk, I already knew the outcome, I drew that from their past matches, especially with the way Anthony Joshua beat Ngannou which was difficult for Fury despite winning the match. Although the rematch will be a little bit different, yet, I see the same outcome. The two sides will always try to be a better version of themselves and avoid earlier mistakes.

But as I know Usyk, survival is key for him, so no matter what Fury does, I believe he will not be able to break him. And the outcome may not be by a knockout, Usyk may still edge higher by performance.

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I cannot be sure but at the time I think my initial reaction was if the referee was going to stop the fight as Usyk seemed in no state to continue (because of the shaking right arm), how would he end the fight. The only way it was going to end as a no contest was if he concluded Dubois hit Usyk below the belt line. If that happened, either he would have been disqualified or had points deducted (which would have been irrelevant in a no contest) therefore I am glad the bout continued.

Even today people are debating about that punch and there is no consensus. When we look at that punch it appears people are concluding different outcomes:

Quote from: pawel7777 on July 01, 2024, 05:39:07 PM

I didn't notice that shaking hand before, but I've just rewatched it and yeah, that looked really unusual. He must've been really hurt.
It could be that Dubois caught him when his abdominal muscles were relaxed, or maybe the impact was big enough to shock his liver.
Anyhow, he did weather the storm and took hi revenge. And as far as the official record goes, he still hasn't been knocked down in his professional career.

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Quote from: TopTort777 on July 03, 2024, 04:12:13 AM

Oooohhh, you have remembered a nice thing to discuss. In Fury last fights I totally havent seen one thing - dirty boxing. I remember Fury used to lean on Wilder. Why Fury havent used dirty boxing against Ngannou or Usyk. Was he to sure that he is leading in the fight? Yeah, that a good thing to discuss. What about dirty boxing, if boxers cant beat Usyk? Even though you can get a point deduction, you can get more benefits from dirty boxing in later rounds.

I'm curious, what kind of dirty boxing did Fury to Wilder? Honestly, I see that he fight clean on the last two wins against Wilder and that he completely dominated the fight. Usyk might just be a better fighter than Fury but with this rematch, we will see if Usyk can again beat Fury. The result of the last fight was a spit decision, so it was a close one and I believe that this rematch is just right because Fury had become a champion in a hard way and that one loss should not be enough to completely forget what he did.

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Oooohhh, you have remembered a nice thing to discuss. In Fury last fights I totally havent seen one thing - dirty boxing. I remember Fury used to lean on Wilder. Why Fury havent used dirty boxing against Ngannou or Usyk. Was he to sure that he is leading in the fight? Yeah, that a good thing to discuss. What about dirty boxing, if boxers cant beat Usyk? Even though you can get a point deduction, you can get more benefits from dirty boxing in later rounds.

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Quote from: JollyGood on July 01, 2024, 08:53:42 AM

One of things I found fascinating about that incident was how much pain Usyk seemed to be in as he fell to the floor and not only that but how badly the right arm of Usyk was shaking while sitting on the canvas.

As for the punch, from what I remember at the time when it was thrown it looked as though it landed on the belt but upon second look it seemed extremely border line. Even if part of the punch was on the belt and part under, it seemed strange to see Usyk react that way.

I didn't notice that shaking hand before, but I've just rewatched it and yeah, that looked really unusual. He must've been really hurt.
It could be that Dubois caught him when his abdominal muscles were relaxed, or maybe the impact was big enough to shock his liver.
Anyhow, he did weather the storm and took hi revenge. And as far as the official record goes, he still hasn't been knocked down in his professional career.

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One of things I found fascinating about that incident was how much pain Usyk seemed to be in as he fell to the floor and not only that but how badly the right arm of Usyk was shaking while sitting on the canvas.

As for the punch, from what I remember at the time when it was thrown it looked as though it landed on the belt but upon second look it seemed extremely border line. Even if part of the punch was on the belt and part under, it seemed strange to see Usyk react that way.

Maybe Fury will try to emulate that punch on the belt because he knows Usyk will get hurt Grin

Quote from: pawel7777 on June 28, 2024, 04:50:05 PM

Quote from: JollyGood on June 28, 2024, 05:02:44 AM

I honestly cannot see much wrong with the alleged low-punch by Dubois. Anyway Usyk was not complaining subsequently when Dubois kept aiming for the same type of body shot even though he was clearly being hurt. It would make a fascinating fight between Usyk and Dubois for another unification fight if they win against their next opponents first.

I think the most criticism comes from the fact that the punch might indeed have landed on (or below) the belt, but it was above the groin, which is meant to be the protected area and the reason for the no punches below the belt rule.
But yeah, I think I'd rather see Usyk fighting Dubois than Joshua for the 3rd time.

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Quote from: South Park on June 27, 2024, 02:41:33 PM

We knew it was coming but it is still surprising in a way, because even if I can understand the rules were just being rightfully enforced, at the same time the intent behind the rules should matter too, since even if Usyk was not fighting the mandatory challenger, it is not as if he was doing this to try to keep his belt by avoiding the best possible boxer he could fight, when in fact it is the opposite, so I would have liked for the IBF to give him some leeway, but, alas, it did not happen.

I do understand where you're coming from, but each organisation should only be considering its own ranks, so no one from another organisation can be considered "the best possible boxer" as that spot is always reserved for the mandatory contender.
Also, Usyk has already won against Fury, and they're fighting again mostly because of the contract clause (and big money), which, from the IBF's perspective, cannot be an excuse for not fighting the mandatory fight.
But it's best this way. I'm sure Usyk (or Fury) will get a shot for another unification bout, likely against AJ.

Quote from: JollyGood on June 28, 2024, 05:02:44 AM

(...)
I honestly cannot see much wrong with the alleged low-punch by Dubois. Anyway Usyk was not complaining subsequently when Dubois kept aiming for the same type of body shot even though he was clearly being hurt. It would make a fascinating fight between Usyk and Dubois for another unification fight if they win against their next opponents first.
(...)

I think the most criticism comes from the fact that the punch might indeed have landed on (or below) the belt, but it was above the groin, which is meant to be the protected area and the reason for the no punches below the belt rule.
But yeah, I think I'd rather see Usyk fighting Dubois than Joshua for the 3rd time.

Quote from: hilariousetc on June 28, 2024, 01:20:59 PM

(...) I'm also sure that they probably would have let Usyk keep it if he paid them a bigger fee which he probably didn't want to do just for the sake of a belt that he can collect again at a later point.

If they indeed asked him for money, that's a sh**y move and I'm glad he said no.

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How do you feel about the fact that they had a unification fight when they met but will not have the same belts on the line when they meet for the rematch in December? The way the IBF have handled this seems absurd to me, it was an unnecessary step regardless of whoever their number one contender was because Fury and Usyk deserved that. At the very least, Fury deserved a chance to win his WBC belt back along with all the others that Usyk held at that time.

When it comes to the IBF, was it all about money or was it related to a political manoeuvre for publicity?

Quote from: hilariousetc on June 28, 2024, 01:20:59 PM

I'm also sure that they probably would have let Usyk keep it if he paid them a bigger fee which he probably didn't want to do just for the sake of a belt that he can collect again at a later point.

Topic: [ POLL ] The Unification Fight: FURY vs USYK 17th FEBRUARY 2024 - page 5. (Read 4165 times)