Topic: Potential Match Fixing involving Finnish teams FC Futura and Ilves-Kissat - page 10. (Read 2839 times)

Great to see the civilised manner in which you are dealing with this entire ordeal. Evidence that Fairlay provided does make your betting behaviour seem quite shady, but it doesn't automatically confirm their claims as facts.

As you mentioned yourself, a reputed arbitrator could resolve this entire mess pretty quickly. Also, I don't see them backing out since they literally suggested it themselves.

Good job finding out about this matter it seems that the evidences is heavily stacked against OP and I don't think that it's ever fair to say that there's ever any need to have some kind of investigation. If this is a really big deal and it's proven that it's a fixed match, I think that you need to submit this thing with the league because either this is a scandal that might involve only the FCs or this might be a widespread and top level kind of scandal, either way, you're already did your part and told everyone about this one so you can safely report this to the concerned authorities, if something were to happen to you or your website, a lot of people will know about it and there's going to be clamor over this scandal.

They use pinnacle as a bookie? I thought this is supposed to be a betting exchange. Betting exchanges don't offer bets, they just offer a platform for p2p betting. Very strange.
And yes, the game is question to be flagged is a joke looking at hpw this team perforemed the games before this rsult was more than easy to expect.


And about this. If you send people messages to send you an email at least have the decency to reply to these emails as well, that's the least you can do. Why bother sending these out in the first place if you ignore replies to it.

You just wasted my, and I bet other people's , time.

This.  You(Fairlay) risked more than you could afford and now you're trying to cut your losses?


Also why would you need an arbitrator here when you rely completely on Pinnacle? Just ask Pinnacle how they settled those bets. Pretty sure they paid out every cent.
After all Pinny has been in business for 25 years and they know what they are doing, not sure about Fairlay tho.

One of the main Fairlay arguments is that my betting behaviour is very "unnatural" in their view.

In an attempt to prove to Fairlay, that I am a normal gambler (yet big sum bettor), I reached out to them and proposed an alternative resolution to this case.

They return my money to the account and allow me to bet.

Before withdrawing I need to make a turnover of more than half a million dollars (8 BTC to be exact) on biggest possible sporting markets (Grand Slam tennis, football EURO2024 and UEFA Champions League)

If i ever make a bet on a small or shady market, they can confiscate the whole balance

The offer was refused.

In the current thread, even though Fairlay has started it themselves, they just ignore any comments and questions. Not a single explanation given by Fairlay on the many interesting questions they have been asked.

As proved by me here, Fairlay has manipulated my betting history to make it look like i won all bets on one Finish games, where in fact i lost.

Fairlay has brought up the Ukrainian connection in relation, for example, to FC Futura's game, but these accusations are ridiculous seeing how FC Futura lost a combined 4-34 in goals in a 7 game stretch just last season when they had zero Ukrainian players. More details in my post here .

Now I understand that this problem can not be resolved in a "peaceful" manner, so it's better to proceed with an arbitrage panel.

I think that enough people have already been recommended by the respected community here, that we can finally proceed with this process.

As i mentioned before I have yet to show some other hard evidence of Fairlay's wrongdoing, but I would rather show it after we agree on an arbitrage panel, as I feel after people see it, Fairlay may back out ...

Lets all agree on a panel.

P.S. When everything is agreed on, I would share all the evidence and answer any questions asked (I have already provided a lot of information, answered a lot of questions, while Fairlay ignores everything and is yet to answer a single question from the community).

P.S.2 As promised before I still have to share information on my betting strategy and why those bets where taken. As promised, I would do it even before Fairlay finally agrees on a panel. I am not them, I have nothing to hide.

There’s no upside arbitrating this case since there’s no way to prove if the match is indeed fixed match or not unless it was officially announced by the organizer of that match that the game is indeed fixed after an official investigation.

But I really like how fairlay trsuted the heavy name on Bitcointalk when it comes to casino industry. Maybe create a contract or escrow the funds involved first if ever the arbitration on this case will commence since there’s no assurance that Fairlay an opinion that will be against them judging by their action of immediately ban on user account.

Watching closely on what’s your opinion with this trivial case. 

Coming here from a tag.

I read the whole thread and each of the posts within, sans the links that somewhat became very abundant, safe for some links from the beginning of the thread. Maybe it's my lack of understanding on how fairlay works, and visiting the site doesn't do much help [I think AHOYBRAUSE shared the same sentiment as me] as it didn't enlighten me by much, but from what I can gather so far, I think every posts here just complicate something that's otherwise simple?

If I may ask, FairlaySupport,

One, did the decision that the game was rigged come from your own team or is it coming from a sportsbook provider you use? Based on the discussion this far, as well as from what I can infer from your site, it doesn't seem you have a sportsbook provider, so the decision came from your own. It doesn't hurt to clarify though, hence I ask.

Second, the basis of your bets cancelation is that it's a rigged game? Do you mind to point us out to which clause from your ToS allows you to confiscate a bet with such nature? Far as I can gather, it's just bad lines and these three,



And newfish1, this doesn't instantly says you're not guilty and out of the spotlight. I know you mentioned that you placed bets on many things, depending on the odds, offer availability, limits, etc. and that you have many accounts on many other sportbook. I am interested to know why you zeroed into those exact matches. Forgive me if it's been asked and answered, or if the evidence has been provided in form of wall of text before, I tend to skip those log of matches you've keep providing.

So, to help me, is it possible and do you mind to provide your recent betting history across books? I think one or two weeks around early to mid May is good and will be much appreciated.

I have been asking this question for some days now. In their main thread also. But as other questions in this thread fairlay just ignores and dont comment at all.

There is talk that the default market maker on fairlay is Pinnacle.



i also received the same message, but as continuation of the questions i asked in their main thread, so i think its fair being messaged like that. What is not ok is them just ignoring my and other peoples questions. That is totally not ok 

Hi. Just to confirm that on Monday 14 I did send such messages to three users at forum. Before that, two users asked at Fairlay topic to buy accounts from users that have open accounts but don't use them.

Thus, wanting to stop those two forum users from buying Fairlay accounts (and other users from selling their accounts), invites were sent to test the new platform for free.

Message to you was the third one. It was sent as in the continuation of these messages about buying/selling account you mentioned that you would like to test the platform as well, so in a way we also tried to stop someone else from offering/selling you account.

All in all, we didn't try lurking any of those users (nor any of them still started testing the new platform), but we just tried to stop accounts from being bought/sold.

The problem is, I doubt that fairlay as a site lost any money on these bets since there are a betting exchange and not a bookie.
Maybe they also act as a bookie but I can't verify that since the site doesn't really give a lot of information when you are not a member.
At a betting exchange you play against other players and not against the house. So the main question here is, why can fairlay keep the money when they didn't lose any. Have the players that bet this game and lost have been compensated for their losses? If not, why is that so?

By the way @fairley, quite sending PMs to users here in this forum trying to lure them to your site, I don't appreciate that and it's rather annoying. Since this is a different bitcointalk account but clearly this person is working for you guys ( official fairlay email address ) I assume it is an official representative.

Fairlay reached out to me yesterday morning regarding the arbitration - I haven`t had the chance to look at it deeply myself yet but one of our "sports pros" aka tyKiwanuka looked into this.

Two things right away:

1. I wouldn`t take money just for checking a case and sharing my/our opinion
2. I will share our thoughts during the day
3. Quick and dirty: A betting exchange should never cancel anything

Also responding to the tag and I feel like cryptofrka summed up how I feel on these issues. The book has controls in place to freeze such markets if flagged, I note that if other books did flag the matches concerned, but graded them anyway.

Evidence of match-fixing is unreasonable to produce, so it is only evidence of pattern and behaviour that can be brought up, leading to reasonable doubt on the customer. I'm not sure if this is the case even then, so I must say without reviewing too much, leaning towards a settlement reflecting honoured bets.

In any case, I feel, if arbitration is to take place then:

- there must be established outcomes to discuss with as clear as possible criteria to determine them.
- there should be at least 3 impartial BTT parties involved as arbitrator, to ensure simple majority decision on outcomes.

P.S. I should mention here also that I was for a period an active Fairlay user myself, no longer, but you might see in their ANN thread I was a semi-regular poster.

thank you again for your opinion.

Believe me, the situation is actually much more disturbing.

I haven't even presented my main argument. My goal is not to totally humiliate Fairlay, destroying their reputation, that's why I am still holding my most valuable information back.

And that is exactly why i have privately reached out to Fairlay with a proposal of a (very suitable to both sides) resolution of this (i strongly believe in this) misunderstanding. I am waiting on their response.

Fairlay has provided substantial proof in order to establish their case which is why I have no idea why some of y'all are asking proof from other casinos. All casinos follow different protocols while assessing bets.

Also, lower level leagues are filled with corrupt officials who are usually involved in these match fixing scandals. Anyway, a proper arbitrator should help resolve this entire mess pretty quickly since you or I could be completely wrong here.

Hello, thank you for your opinion.

I guess after voicing it, the "bookmaker side of the argument" will not accept you as part of the arbitration panel

After all, you did not bring up the whole "you are Ukrainian, there are Ukrainian players in FC Futura squad, you are guilty, lets take your money" or the "you are betting 40+ thousand on Finnish lower leagues, you are rich, you are guilty, lets take your money" arguments.

For me, it makes much more sense to bet 40k on a Finnish lower league football, following the smart money, than putting even 1k on a roulette table, where the probability is clearly against you.

If this is really damn obvious then why will other casino still grade this match while only Fairlay don’t want to pay to the winning bets? Also there should be a news related to this match fixing if your opinion about being obvious is correct.

I agree that there might some anomaly on the match if you are viewing it as casino perspective since some players is doing shit performance at that match but this happened on other games which unnecessary foul on NBA being given like what happened when SGA foul Luca on their recent playoff match while they are already winning the game. I mean even a great player sometimes do obvious mistakes so this is possible on lower division team.

Fairlay is the only casino strongly claim that this game is match fix including you that’s why I’m asking if has proof that other casino share same opinion since he mention it already.

It’s simple, if the league itself doesn’t consider it as match fixed then it’s very hard to proved the match fixed claim by a body that is not even related to the league.


Exactly, This is the only casino not honoring bets done on this match.

Hey fellas, slaman29 tagged me so just chipping in.

My opinion in these situations is always the same - if a bookie takes the bet, they need to honor the bet.
They have many levers to pull - they can suspend markets, limit the bets, ban accounts.., it is their responsibility to protect themselves.

It's incredibly hard to prove match fixing, and I feel it's the wrong way to approach this case. Was Loris Karius bribed in the Champions League final then?
In amateur leagues all kind of bizarre things happen all the time, and yeah - fixed matches are surely more common. But if somebody's killing you with big bets in Finnish amateur leagues it's your job to find a way around it if you still want to offer these markets.

________________________________

Regarding the arbitration - it's my opinion that it needs to be a team of 3-5 people, not a single arbitrator.

I am sorry, but did you read any of my previous posts?

Ukrainian players argument does not make sense, check these out

1-4 https://int.soccerway.com/matches/2023/07/09/finland/kakkonen/futura/finland-nurmijarven-jalkapalloseura/4032703/

0-3 https://int.soccerway.com/matches/2023/07/15/finland/kakkonen/futura/fc-reipas/4032709/

1-6 https://int.soccerway.com/matches/2023/07/22/finland/kakkonen/pepo/futura/4032714/

0-5 https://int.soccerway.com/matches/2023/07/29/finland/kakkonen/futura/pk-keski-uusimaa-kerava/4032720/

0-5 https://int.soccerway.com/matches/2023/08/05/finland/kakkonen/jippo/futura/4032724/

1-6 https://int.soccerway.com/matches/2023/05/18/finland/kakkonen/pk-35-ry/futura/4032669/

1-5 https://int.soccerway.com/matches/2023/05/31/finland/suomen-cup/pallo-iirot/futura/4075684/


this is the streak of FC Futura just last season (this season has just started) WITHOUT ANY UKRAINIAN PLAYERS

about me being wealthy man, you obviously did not read this post https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.64142926

per Fairlay's request I have posted a screenshot of my other betting account history, where for example I have a bet of 50 000+ USD Usyk boxing match and annual turnovers of 400 000+ USD only in that account.

So yes, you can consider me wealthy. Does it justify withholding my 0.8 BTC ?

Looks very suspicious with Ukraine players in the team...

FC Kiffen vs. FC Futura   2.860   FC Kiffen -4.5   100.00   05/12/2024 13:27   186.00   05/12/2024 13:55
FC Kiffen vs. FC Futura   2.840   FC Kiffen -4.5   100.00   05/12/2024 13:27   184.00   05/12/2024 13:55
FC Kiffen vs. FC Futura   2.580   FC Kiffen -4.25   100.00   05/12/2024 13:26   158.00   05/12/2024 13:55
FC Kiffen vs. FC Futura   2.860   FC Kiffen -4.5   100.00   05/12/2024 13:26   186.00   05/12/2024 13:55
FC Kiffen vs. FC Futura   2.700   FC Kiffen -4.25   130.00   05/12/2024 13:25   221.00   05/12/2024 13:55
FC Kiffen vs. FC Futura   2.790   FC Kiffen -4.25   139.00   05/12/2024 13:22   248.81   05/12/2024 13:55

Is that a 0.69 BTC bet?
Who would bet such high amount $46k us dollar in a shitty lower league in Finland?

The bettor must be a wealthy man, average salary in Ukraine is like $500 us dollar a month..