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Topic: Potential Match Fixing involving Finnish teams FC Futura and Ilves-Kissat - page 8. (Read 2916 times)

sr. member
Activity: 2604
Merit: 338
Vave.com - Crypto Casino
If you dont want people betting on highly risky markets like Finnish lower league than you should not allow betting on them.
Proof needs to be presented for fixed matches and that should be reporting to UEFA and Finish federation first, if true this can be much more serious.
Suspicion about something is not enough to confiscate all coins from users.
When there's some accusation then it should really be needing up that strong evidence because rumors or feelings or point of view wont really be enough on drawing up conclusions that its fixed. Cool

Just one arbitrator should be enough. So far, we would go for holydarkness, who was recommended to us first and signaled his willingness to participate.  Anyway, we are still investigating the matter and need a little bit more time...
Take your time with your investigation and dont forget to update if you have seen something with that digging.
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 661
- Jay -
There seems to be a market for selling fixed matches and Ilves Kissat is mentioned there quite often.   For example, on instagram, 4th and 5th picture at https://www.instagram.com/jay_chinea/
This is not the evidence you think it is. Would it make sense to suspend the results of all clubs that mentioned in what seems to be a market for fixed matches? Do a random search on any random small club on instagram and come back with the results you see.

I have been silently reading the entire conversation and have my own perception of the issue which is in line with what the majority of people here have voiced out. Fairlay is in the wrong here and have no solid ground to seize the balance of this user and suspend them and you will be building a very bad reputation for yourself if you continue at it.

Just one arbitrator should be enough. So far, we would go for holydarkness, who was recommended to us first and signaled his willingness to participate.
No, you will need at least 2, 3 will be perfect cause then you have a tie breaker, but 1 is no arbitration at all.

- Jay -
legendary
Activity: 2086
Merit: 1282
Logo Designer ⛨ BSFL Division1
If you dont want people betting on highly risky markets like Finnish lower league than you should not allow betting on them.
Proof needs to be presented for fixed matches and that should be reporting to UEFA and Finish federation first, if true this can be much more serious.
Suspicion about something is not enough to confiscate all coins from users.
newbie
Activity: 21
Merit: 0
There seems to be a market for selling fixed matches and Ilves Kissat is mentioned there quite often.   For example, on instagram, 4th and 5th picture at https://www.instagram.com/jay_chinea/

a market for selling fixed matches, where you could literally make hundreds of thousands of dollars via highly criminal activity - advertising itself in the open on instagram Huh?? you are joking right Huh?

are you new to the betting scene? on many tipping platforms, in telegram tipping groups, everywhere where betting is involved - every third tipster claims to have fixed games Wink)))))
sr. member
Activity: 473
Merit: 252
please do not contact us here via PM for support.
We were trying to convince qualified people close to AskGamblers and SPR to decide on that matter but in the end it failed. We have further contacts  to start an official investigation into the matter. However this could take months or even a year to be completed - not what we were hoping for. So we refrain from it for now.  

We will do some further digging and share our findings. Please bear with us.


Just one arbitrator should be enough. So far, we would go for holydarkness, who was recommended to us first and signaled his willingness to participate.  Anyway, we are still investigating the matter and need a little bit more time...

newbie
Activity: 6
Merit: 0
Whatever happened to SBR?
AFAIK they decided to stop working with SBR after that incident where Fairlay tried to steal cryptocurrency, due to them accusing the player of money laundering. Not sure if they offered to donate those ‘dirty’ btc to charity at the time.  Grin
https://www.sportsbookreview.com/forum/sportsbooks-industry/3557348-fairlay-currently-stealing-my-btc-6-figures.html

All Fairlay's excuses are a joke. A few days ago Pinnacle/Bet365 and other bookies were taking bets on team they suspect in match fixing. Smiley To me it's a good sign that the team is ok and Fairlay is trying to steal the players money again.
hero member
Activity: 3178
Merit: 977
www.Crypto.Games: Multiple coins, multiple games
I have no idea why Fairlay is dragging this issue out for so long. I thought they would have chosen an arbitration panel by now and sorted things out, but are still talking about collecting more evidence.

At this point, the pendulum is clearly swinging in @newfish1's favor. Whatever happened to SBR? Personally, I would vote for experienced punters like @efialtis to be a part of the panel.
legendary
Activity: 2226
Merit: 1571
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Hey fellas,

thanks for considering me but I'm not really interested in being an arbitrary.

First off, I surely lack experience for such a role - currently time as well. Secondly, considering my position on the forum (promoter, campaign/competition manager) I'm more interested in a potential long-term cooperation with Fairlay than opposing them here - which I'd morally have to do.

That being said, I want to help you because you're clearly in the right. Even if you were a scammer whose brother is a player on the team you bet against, you're right until they prove it - and I haven't seen any proof yet. We should not tolerate withholding winnings based on hunches or '99% certainties', and the betting pattern you use is used by my friend who professionally gambles so I'm familiar with it and I don't think it's that uncommon. Professional gamblers don't bet on the Champions League, they bet on Japanese 2nd league handicaps and table tennis where it's easier to find an edge.

I've seen Fairlay's markets - for example, yesterday there was a 130mBTC pool for women's 2nd tier Brazilian football -7,5 handicap. Such markets are clearly allowed, so a player taking bets on them should never be punished.

In any case, I believe arbitration isn't the best approach anyway. Instead, I’d prefer to demonstrate to Fairlay why I feel they are in the wrong here and why I feel it's important for their long-term reputation on Bitcointalk to resolve this quickly and amicably.

I think that, if this isn't settled soon and in the right way, Fairlay risks a flag being raised against them. In the current state of events I'd have to support it and it's something I'd rather avoid.
newbie
Activity: 23
Merit: 0
We need a little bit more time to collect more evidence and will post an update in 24 hours.

Please, lets decide on the arbitration panel and then you can present more evidence.

For now, the two people you contacted yourself have agreed, they are

efialtis (Gosubetting.com)
holydarkness

Lets make it 3 in total. As you proposed two of them, I think it will be fair if i have a chance to propose at least one also. Actually I am not an active user of this forum, so I don't know the local community. So I can not propose anybody from my own knowledge. But I have no objection on the person, that was already mentioned here on multiple occasions and appears to be a well respected member of BitcoinTalk family.

So the third member should be cryptofrka or buwaytress (both Legendary users recommended in this thread by others).

Lets make a decision on the third panel member and then you can present more evidence. I feel like there is no need to discuss it further, until the arbitration panel is set and ready to go.

Thank you.
sr. member
Activity: 473
Merit: 252
please do not contact us here via PM for support.
We need a little bit more time to collect more evidence and will post an update in 24 hours.
legendary
Activity: 2632
Merit: 1462
Yes, I'm an asshole
Hi @holydarkness,

to answer your question from our Terms:

Users are forbidden to use FAIRLAY LLC platform for money laundering, betting fraud, match fixing, line manipulation or any other illegal activities.

FAIRLAY LLC reserves the right to refuse and to terminate any business relationship, and to cancel any operation of customers who do not comply with the requirements.

Sport markets (excluding horse racing) are settled according to the settlement rules of Pinnacle Sports LLC unless different rules are stated in the market description.

So all settlement rules of Pinnacle Sports also apply, including provisions against  match fixing and similiar illegal activity.

Thank you for this.

Watching the videos of all matches we concluded, that at least two of the matches were fixed beyond all reasonable doubt and thus voided all wagers on these markets. We don't have to establish a link between newfish1 and some player.  It is sufficient to show, that the match was fixed.  Even bets from regular users, who bet on these markets by accident would be voided in that case. That is pretty much standard in the industry.  E-Sports matches are voided all the time because of suspicious activity for all users betting on it, though there is not always hard proof. [...]

Yet you're the one who previously said it's the most incriminating facts. So which one is it? The link doesn't matter that you don't have to establish it [and prove it's existence], or it is the most incriminating that it became the reason why newfish1 faced this current situation?



By this standard, then when you give your will, I am a part of that "team" too, given Fairlay also reached me as well.

Of course, i have no objection.

So for now, we have two members of the panel

efialtis (Gosubetting.com)
holydarkness

we need one more and we are ready to go.

Nope, I'm pretty much sure fairlay just voted efialtis and me out,

[...]
We were contacted by another party who was working for a Betting Integrity Unit and hopefully can help us find the best arbitrator with the necessary experience.
newbie
Activity: 23
Merit: 0
By this standard, then when you give your will, I am a part of that "team" too, given Fairlay also reached me as well.

Of course, i have no objection.

So for now, we have two members of the panel

efialtis (Gosubetting.com)
holydarkness

we need one more and we are ready to go.
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 828
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
snip


Ridiculous.
First you asked if somebody here would do the arbitration but now that you don't like their opinion about this you quickly moved away from it.
And it is still not a fixed match because of your opinion. Woo are you to decide if a match was fixed? Any expertise?
There are agencies that supervise games and they can make this conclusion, not you. Unless the games in question are officially flagged all you do here is accusing without proof/merit.

Also, I have serious doubt that betters who bet against the winning side also got refunded their wagers. Why I have doubt you may ask? Because you don't appear very trustworthy here.

sr. member
Activity: 473
Merit: 252
please do not contact us here via PM for support.
Hi @holydarkness,

to answer your question from our Terms:

Users are forbidden to use FAIRLAY LLC platform for money laundering, betting fraud, match fixing, line manipulation or any other illegal activities.

FAIRLAY LLC reserves the right to refuse and to terminate any business relationship, and to cancel any operation of customers who do not comply with the requirements.

Sport markets (excluding horse racing) are settled according to the settlement rules of Pinnacle Sports LLC unless different rules are stated in the market description.   





So all settlement rules of Pinnacle Sports also apply, including provisions against  match fixing and similiar illegal activity.




Watching the videos of all matches we concluded, that at least two of the matches were fixed beyond all reasonable doubt and thus voided all wagers on these markets. We don't have to establish a link between newfish1 and some player.  It is sufficient to show, that the match was fixed.  Even bets from regular users, who bet on these markets by accident would be voided in that case. That is pretty much standard in the industry.  E-Sports matches are voided all the time because of suspicious activity for all users betting on it, though there is not always hard proof.

  




We were contacted by another party who was working for a Betting Integrity Unit and hopefully can help us find the best arbitrator with the necessary experience.






legendary
Activity: 2632
Merit: 1462
Yes, I'm an asshole
@holeydarnkness

We discovered the account in a routine check. No other bookmaker has voided these bets as far as we know. We only heard/read, that some of these matches were regarded highly suspicous. But as there was no hard proof, they were graded.

We tagged the account as highly suspicious before we even discovered that the account actually belongs to an Ukrainian individual and that these players, who lost the match seemingly on purpose were also Ukrainian.

The market maker / counterparty in this bet  has actually hedged the bet we learnt, so he does not have to be compensated if arbitrator decides so. It would also be acceptable for us and the market maker, if we donated the 799mBTC to charity.  Just giving it back to the alleged criminal involved in match-fixing would be the wrong thing to do.
[...]

One question answered, that you cancelled the bets by your own initiative. May I know the answer to the second question? Under the basis of which rule do this decision carried out? I can't find any on your ToS and will highly appreciate if you can point us to it.

Just for clarification. All this happened on the same day. Tagged the account and blocked it, because the activity looked highly suspicious.  Most of the incriminating facts we mentioned earlier (including user's nationality, nationality of the team's players , former allegations against these teams, footage)  we were only discovering later that day.   And we rarely block accounts.  Anyway, we will wait for arbitrator's decision and will follow suit.

Those things, player's nationality and team's nationality, as well as former allegations against the team, are not necessarily correlative, let alone causative. Thus, I don't think that fact can be said as "incriminating" in the sense that it holds no weight, since it's hearsay at best. Unless you can produce an evidence of an established communication between newfish1 and other party [the insider].

Shortened, it brought us to my next question: where do you know that newfish1 know in advance of the outcome of the match? As I said previously, as well as what's pointed by others, his betting history seems show a normal bets, none being indicative that he knows about specific match.

Perhaps it's time for you to spill all of the evidence you have against him? Spare no mercy, go full throttle, YOLO and all.



[...]
Pretty much what I said, I agree - I don`t get it and their response to my question didn`t explain it any better. We are talking about an exchange here and if they live off commissions purely, they couldn`t care less.

They could, as evident by the existence of this thread, but they shouldn't.



Fairlay has reached out to you themselves. They cant back out now Wink

By this standard, then when you give your will, I am a part of that "team" too, given Fairlay also reached me as well.

Two things to note that will rather be familiar by those who follows my track on scam accusations board, "mediating" things between players and casinos, I don't take payment and I don't make the final call.

Payment, as I said numerous times [usually by those who accuse me of taking advantage of a case or being in the bed with the casinos], the benefit I get from getting those cases resolved are simply knowing that someone [be it the casino or the player, whoever actually the victim] get what's rightfully theirs, either the fund or a clean reputation.

Final call, because as I said to someone before, I don't have the wisdom of Solomon, who am I to make the final call? Who pass a judgment that other has to follow? Instead, as evident by my post history, I simply pushing for questions until things become clear and it become obvious to anyone who read which side is the victim.

That said, to eliminate any doubt that you specifically tailor your betting history on fairlay as a fail-safe, do you mind to provide your betting history of the same period from other platforms?
newbie
Activity: 13
Merit: 0
this is the line movement of the match which was played on May 19

https://ecapper.ru/lc/event.php?id=7896011&t=handicap

the drop/rise of the lines happens at around minute 8, newfish placed his orders at minute 14 to 19.

in my opinion the gap between minute 8 and 14 is pretty huge to consider newfish had any inside info.
Option 1: newfish just got unlucky and placed bets on a fixed match.
Option 2: newfish is hunting for fixed matches which is also not forbidden.

In my opinion, fairlay didnt close the doors so they should honor is winnings, it is the bookies fault if they still take action on lines even though there is suspicious line movement
newbie
Activity: 23
Merit: 0
Fwiw, Fairlay might not be too happy choosing me since I pretty much gave my honest feedback already - and to be fair, I don`t think I have missed any important aspect.

Disclaimer: Honest feedback based on the information that was made available to this point

Disclaimer 3: I stated right from the beginning that I would not take payment just to share my 2 cents

Fairlay has reached out to you themselves. They cant back out now Wink

Plus, for sure they think they have some other valuable information they have not shared yet. As do I of course. The main piece of evidence (which will prove that I am correct here) was not shared by me yet.

Anyways, if you dont have an objection to it, we can consider you Member Number 1 of the arbitration panel, even if you dont want to be paid for it Wink

Can we? @efialtis
legendary
Activity: 1750
Merit: 1363
www.gosubetting.com
Fwiw, Fairlay might not be too happy choosing me since I pretty much gave my honest feedback already - and to be fair, I don`t think I have missed any important aspect.

Disclaimer: Honest feedback based on the information that was made available to this point

Disclaimer 3: I stated right from the beginning that I would not take payment just to share my 2 cents
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 1226
Livecasino, 20% cashback, no fuss payouts.
I totally agree. As far as i am concerned, I feel that all the members of BitcoinTalk community mentioned here, that have replied in this thread, are worthy nominees for the panel. I have no objections.

I think we can proceed and confirm those panel members finally, if they are ok with it. I look forward to it.

Thank you.

I guess you should have mentioned them by name haha. efialtis and holydarkness already responded after you posted this, but I see at least 2 members I mentioned spoke up here earlier.

If you are interested, please apply via [email protected] or in this thread.

It shouldn't be people applying. It should be you and newfish1 together in this thread mentioning the names you would like to choose as arbitrators. And then they agree. Then it is open and transparent. People who are applying usually want something out of it Smiley

Kinda confusing now because nobody can tell who is actually the arbitrator and therefore needs to be given information.
sr. member
Activity: 473
Merit: 252
please do not contact us here via PM for support.
@holeydarnkness


We tagged the account as highly suspicious



THIS
if its highly suspicious already
why u are waiting that he won more to dot this
u could just suspend his account at the moment u tagged him as highly suspicious




Just for clarification. All this happened on the same day. Tagged the account and blocked it, because the activity looked highly suspicious.  Most of the incriminating facts we mentioned earlier (including user's nationality, nationality of the team's players , former allegations against these teams, footage)  we were only discovering later that day.   And we rarely block accounts.  Anyway, we will wait for arbitrator's decision and will follow suit.
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