Potential Match Fixing involving Finnish teams FC Futura and Ilves-Kissat - page 3.

SeymourT

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Quote from: Upgrade00 on June 25, 2024, 08:43:46 AM

Quote from: SeymourT on June 25, 2024, 12:01:27 AM

Is this match between Liverpool and Manchester City obviously fixed?
https://youtu.be/j_6iRCcfYu8?si=CYrwBsPAyXOkGMqb
Focus from 00:50

How about this between Liverpool and Real Madrid (2018 final)
https://youtu.be/rtFGpfrdlMI?si=Qoh0lYjh63tpvSsD

This should tell you that personal opinion means nothing when it comes to determining incidence of crime like match fixing. A match can be suspicious to different people, but needs an authority to determine that.

Bookmakers would be withholding money for years if they had to wait to see how an authority would rule. Tiny markets don't get investigated. The bookmaker makes the decision in tiny markets on their opinion and it's never going to change. It's been done that way forever. You are trying to make up your own rules.

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Quote from: SeymourT on June 25, 2024, 12:01:27 AM

Is this match between Liverpool and Manchester City obviously fixed?
https://youtu.be/j_6iRCcfYu8?si=CYrwBsPAyXOkGMqb
Focus from 00:50

How about this between Liverpool and Real Madrid (2018 final)
https://youtu.be/rtFGpfrdlMI?si=Qoh0lYjh63tpvSsD

This should tell you that personal opinion means nothing when it comes to determining incidence of crime like match fixing. A match can be suspicious to different people, but needs an authority to determine that.

SeymourT

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It can even take a year for major leagues to start being investigated. Brazils Serie A and Serie B
cnn.com/2023/05/11/football/brazil-soccer-match-fixing-investigation-spt-intl/index.html#:~:text=Brazilian%20soccer%20has%20become%20embroiled%20in%20a%20match-fixing%20scandal.&text=Brazilian%20authorities%20have%20launched%20a,in%20a%20statement%20on%20Wednesday.

SeymourT

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Quote from: johanJ on June 24, 2024, 10:04:25 PM

i am 100% sure that the members you mentioned are not 100% sure that the match was fixed.

additionally, it does not really matter what some people on an internet forum think. It does not matter how much activity those people have.

UNLESS, those members actually work for FBI or something Grin

What matters is what police of those different countries think.

How many times do I have to say it. THE POLICE DON"T INVESTIGATE MOST FIXES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote

For criminal gangs, match-fixing remains an almost perfect and investigation-free crime to commit.

Now look at this game. No one will investigate and close to no one watched.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4rC7403Dc4

johanJ

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i am 100% sure that the members you mentioned are not 100% sure that the match was fixed.

additionally, it does not really matter what some people on an internet forum think. It does not matter how much activity those people have.

UNLESS, those members actually work for FBI or something Grin

What matters is what police of those different countries think.

SeymourT

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Quote from: johanJ on June 24, 2024, 08:03:36 PM

its VERY curious that one Fairlay defender stops posting and then another account is created and starts to pitch a different defense idea trying to TEACH the users different things.

Let me teach you something also.

The article you linked mentions FRIENDLY games, meaning there were UNOFFICIAL games. The federation in question even said they did not take place.

In this thread the matches in questions are OFFICIAL matches easily provable by the many federations in questions even MONTHS after they took place.

See the difference? OFFICIAL versus UNOFFICIAL.

Second thing, the bookies DO NOT HAVE the right to decide a match was fixed or not. If a crime was committed, only police or the local courts can decide that.

See the difference? POLICE versus a bookie that lost money on a game and want to make it like it was fixed.

What's interesting is that three posters with activity over 3000 say the match was fixed. Most with less say it wasn't fixed. See the difference. If no other major bookmakers took large wagers than no one is going to look in to this fixed match. Watch the YouTube video of the match to see there are no fans there and this is normally not heavily bet. Hundreds of matches are fixed in football, tennis, ping pong. Even if it is investigated it can take a year and the bookmaker has to make a quick decision.

johanJ

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its VERY curious that one Fairlay defender stops posting and then another account is created and starts to pitch a different defense idea trying to TEACH the users different things.

Let me teach you something also.

The article you linked mentions FRIENDLY games, meaning there were UNOFFICIAL games. The federation in question even said they did not take place.

In this thread the matches in questions are OFFICIAL matches easily provable by the many federations in questions even MONTHS after they took place.

See the difference? OFFICIAL versus UNOFFICIAL.

Second thing, the bookies DO NOT HAVE the right to decide a match was fixed or not. If a crime was committed, only police or the local courts can decide that.

See the difference? POLICE versus a bookie that lost money on a game and want to make it like it was fixed.

SeymourT

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Quote from: holydarkness on June 24, 2024, 12:01:41 PM

Quote from: SeymourT on June 24, 2024, 11:39:53 AM

Quote from: holydarkness on June 24, 2024, 10:50:33 AM

Not only an expert, that answer should come from the authorities investigating the case thoroughly, questioning every party involved and draw their conclusion from those findings.

This is the issue being discussed and repetitively pointed out here, one can easily say the match is rigged according to their opinion, be it through educated guess, a comprehensive study of the match pattern frame by frame, a random rambling, or whatever, they have the capability to draw that conclusion, but no one other than the authorities appointed by the officials of that league has the capacity to draw it.

I believe this is also the reason why AG refuses to mediate. They have experts who are fluent in mediating as well as finding and validating evidences, but they are well aware that they have no capacity to rule a game as fixed.

For someone who goes to a length to make a --by your own words-- teaching post to correct everybody here, because no one seemed right in the thread, you seem failed to read that issue being pointed out through several replies.

I'm trying to teach you that that it's common for very low level football matches to be fixed and no investigations are done and the bookmaker makes the decision.

Oh, how generous of you. And what gave you the impression that that idea didn't cross any of our mind? That you need to bother to create an account to state the obvious; that low level football matches are easy to manipulate?

Crossing your mind is different than stating the obvious that the match was fixed. I'll sum it up hoping the thread gets closed. Fairlay doesn't always act as an exchange. If Fairlay or Pinnacle allows cheating then this group will start paying off ping pong players and others looking for fast money. Fairlay or Pinnacle decided to go with high limits and not pay cheaters instead of small limits.

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Quote from: SeymourT on June 24, 2024, 11:39:53 AM

Quote from: holydarkness on June 24, 2024, 10:50:33 AM

Not only an expert, that answer should come from the authorities investigating the case thoroughly, questioning every party involved and draw their conclusion from those findings.

This is the issue being discussed and repetitively pointed out here, one can easily say the match is rigged according to their opinion, be it through educated guess, a comprehensive study of the match pattern frame by frame, a random rambling, or whatever, they have the capability to draw that conclusion, but no one other than the authorities appointed by the officials of that league has the capacity to draw it.

I believe this is also the reason why AG refuses to mediate. They have experts who are fluent in mediating as well as finding and validating evidences, but they are well aware that they have no capacity to rule a game as fixed.

For someone who goes to a length to make a --by your own words-- teaching post to correct everybody here, because no one seemed right in the thread, you seem failed to read that issue being pointed out through several replies.

I'm trying to teach you that that it's common for very low level football matches to be fixed and no investigations are done and the bookmaker makes the decision.

Oh, how generous of you. And what gave you the impression that that idea didn't cross any of our mind? That you need to bother to create an account to state the obvious; that low level football matches are easy to manipulate?

SeymourT

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Quote from: holydarkness on June 24, 2024, 10:50:33 AM

Quote from: SeymourT on June 24, 2024, 09:04:56 AM

Quote from: Coin_trader on June 24, 2024, 07:00:24 AM

Then this will fall under the same category of this issue. Who classifies the game as fixed match and why it’s not under investigation until now?

[...]

We need an expert to answer that but [...].

Not only an expert, that answer should come from the authorities investigating the case thoroughly, questioning every party involved and draw their conclusion from those findings.

This is the issue being discussed and repetitively pointed out here, one can easily say the match is rigged according to their opinion, be it through educated guess, a comprehensive study of the match pattern frame by frame, a random rambling, or whatever, they have the capability to draw that conclusion, but no one other than the authorities appointed by the officials of that league has the capacity to draw it.

I believe this is also the reason why AG refuses to mediate. They have experts who are fluent in mediating as well as finding and validating evidences, but they are well aware that they have no capacity to rule a game as fixed.

For someone who goes to a length to make a --by your own words-- teaching post to correct everybody here, because no one seemed right in the thread, you seem failed to read that issue being pointed out through several replies.

I'm trying to teach you that that it's common for very low level football matches to be fixed and no investigations are done and the bookmaker makes the decision.

holydarkness

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Quote from: SeymourT on June 24, 2024, 09:04:56 AM

Quote from: Coin_trader on June 24, 2024, 07:00:24 AM

Then this will fall under the same category of this issue. Who classifies the game as fixed match and why it’s not under investigation until now?

[...]

We need an expert to answer that but [...].

Not only an expert, that answer should come from the authorities investigating the case thoroughly, questioning every party involved and draw their conclusion from those findings.

This is the issue being discussed and repetitively pointed out here, one can easily say the match is rigged according to their opinion, be it through educated guess, a comprehensive study of the match pattern frame by frame, a random rambling, or whatever, they have the capability to draw that conclusion, but no one other than the authorities appointed by the officials of that league has the capacity to draw it.

I believe this is also the reason why AG refuses to mediate. They have experts who are fluent in mediating as well as finding and validating evidences, but they are well aware that they have no capacity to rule a game as fixed.

For someone who goes to a length to make a --by your own words-- teaching post to correct everybody here, because no one seemed right in the thread, you seem failed to read that issue being pointed out through several replies.

SeymourT

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Quote from: Coin_trader on June 24, 2024, 07:00:24 AM

Quote from: SeymourT on June 24, 2024, 02:21:27 AM

It was a reply to AHOYBRAUSE. Lower level football matches are fixed with no investigation many times and the year doesn't matter. Even you said "the user took advantage of fixed matches in a pretty transparent manner and expected to get away since your site is a betting exchange." It doesn't matter if the bettor was Ukranian and also Fairlay never waivered on mediation since they kept asking for applicants and no one was agreeing to be the sole mediator. No one seemed right in the thread and I made corrections. No one can signup for Fairlay so it really doesn't matter what people try to do with their reputation. I'm a very large player there and got in just before they stopped taking signups. Grin

I'm editing to say that this post is a reply to a few posts above since I didn't multiquote.

Then this will fall under the same category of this issue. Who classifies the game as fixed match and why it’s not under investigation until now?

The source of the article should file the complaint to the league for a fixed match if they have evidence because the article sound like same story with Fairlay which they are the only one claiming for a fixed match yet didn’t manage to prove their accusations or else this matches should be investigated.

We need an expert to answer that but I, Haunebu, LFC Bitcoin, Rating Place have all said it's most likely fixed.

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Quote from: SeymourT on June 24, 2024, 02:21:27 AM

It was a reply to AHOYBRAUSE. Lower level football matches are fixed with no investigation many times and the year doesn't matter. Even you said "the user took advantage of fixed matches in a pretty transparent manner and expected to get away since your site is a betting exchange." It doesn't matter if the bettor was Ukranian and also Fairlay never waivered on mediation since they kept asking for applicants and no one was agreeing to be the sole mediator. No one seemed right in the thread and I made corrections. No one can signup for Fairlay so it really doesn't matter what people try to do with their reputation. I'm a very large player there and got in just before they stopped taking signups. Grin

I'm editing to say that this post is a reply to a few posts above since I didn't multiquote.

Then this will fall under the same category of this issue. Who classifies the game as fixed match and why it’s not under investigation until now?

The source of the article should file the complaint to the league for a fixed match if they have evidence because the article sound like same story with Fairlay which they are the only one claiming for a fixed match yet didn’t manage to prove their accusations or else this matches should be investigated.

SeymourT

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Quote from: Haunebu on June 24, 2024, 02:03:13 AM

Quote from: SeymourT on June 24, 2024, 12:57:17 AM

Quote

For criminal gangs, match-fixing remains an almost perfect and investigation-free crime to commit.

https://www.insideworldfootball.com/2020/03/31/ukraine-ghost-games-fool-bookies-punters-data-firm-criminals-pull-off-perfect-crime/

The article that you shared is from 2020 and it's 2024 now implying that this isn't really helpful in this particular case as @un_rank already pointed out. Weird that you are trying to link that article with this particular case.

Anyway, I find it odd that Fairlay didn't lock this thread yet after announcing their own verdict without really caring about our opinions.

It was a reply to AHOYBRAUSE. Lower level football matches are fixed with no investigation many times and the year doesn't matter. Even you said "the user took advantage of fixed matches in a pretty transparent manner and expected to get away since your site is a betting exchange." It doesn't matter if the bettor was Ukranian and also Fairlay never waivered on mediation since they kept asking for applicants and no one was agreeing to be the sole mediator. No one seemed right in the thread and I made corrections. No one can signup for Fairlay so it really doesn't matter what people try to do with their reputation. I'm a very large player there and got in just before they stopped taking signups. Grin

I'm editing to say that this post is a reply to a few posts above since I didn't multiquote.

Haunebu

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Quote from: SeymourT on June 24, 2024, 12:57:17 AM

Quote

For criminal gangs, match-fixing remains an almost perfect and investigation-free crime to commit.

https://www.insideworldfootball.com/2020/03/31/ukraine-ghost-games-fool-bookies-punters-data-firm-criminals-pull-off-perfect-crime/

The article that you shared is from 2020 and it's 2024 now implying that this isn't really helpful in this particular case as @un_rank already pointed out. Weird that you are trying to link that article with this particular case.

Anyway, I find it odd that Fairlay didn't lock this thread yet after announcing their own verdict without really caring about our opinions.

un_rank

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- Jay -

Quote from: SeymourT on June 24, 2024, 12:57:17 AM

https://www.insideworldfootball.com/2020/03/31/ukraine-ghost-games-fool-bookies-punters-data-firm-criminals-pull-off-perfect-crime/

Are you trying to say that since match fixing exists in Ukraine and the player in question is Ukrainian that should mean that he fixes matches? The best being called into question were made in the Finnish league as far as I can see, this link does not influence this case at all.

- Jay -

SeymourT

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Quote

For criminal gangs, match-fixing remains an almost perfect and investigation-free crime to commit.

https://www.insideworldfootball.com/2020/03/31/ukraine-ghost-games-fool-bookies-punters-data-firm-criminals-pull-off-perfect-crime/

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Quote from: johanJ on June 23, 2024, 09:34:05 PM

by overwhelming evidence i assume you mean the instagram posts Grin

That's what I was thinking.
Making a shill account to support Fairlay's behaviour is already something else but also writing such a nonsense is just laughable.

If there was so much evidence there would be an official investigation up to the highest ranks in European football and it would be known all over the internet.
But I guess having an opinion is for some reason the same as the truth for some people.

johanJ

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by overwhelming evidence i assume you mean the instagram posts Grin

SeymourT

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Everyone got this wrong so this is a teaching post. The bettor doesn't need to be doxed. A stooge is used to bet. The bookmaker makes the decision on fixed matches in small leagues. Only one or two bookmakers will take the hit on large wagers in small league fixed matches. No one else is going to care about these wagers so they aren't going to be looked at and they aren't going to be published anywhere as fixed matches. The evidence is overwhelming that these matches are fixed. Fairlay shouldn't have even asked for mediation. Fairlay asked for one mediator. Gosu and Holydarkness didn't accept being the sole mediator. Fairlay then asked for applications so that one mediator could be properly vetted. Fairlay never backed out or wavered on mediation. No one applied here or wanted to be the sole mediator. Fairlay wasn't going to agree to a panel or other suggestions. Not even Gosu and Holydarkness were qualified to mediate. Fairlay got their mediator three weeks ago and this thread should have been locked. I've never had contact with Fairlay so don't go that route. I'm using a burner account because I don't want to be involved in the same character assassination given to Fairlay.

Topic: Potential Match Fixing involving Finnish teams FC Futura and Ilves-Kissat - page 3. (Read 2921 times)