Topic: Potential Match Fixing involving Finnish teams FC Futura and Ilves-Kissat - page 9. (Read 2839 times)

Pretty much what I said, I agree - I don`t get it and their response to my question didn`t explain it any better. We are talking about an exchange here and if they live off commissions purely, they couldn`t care less.

Simply because this suggestion and review regarding specific match is done after the match and not during the match since no one will spot this immediately during the game because there’s a lot of live sport games active at that time.

Usually, investigation is done after the match since they are not directly involved on that sports. They are just merely using that sports match to offer bets. What I find questionable with their action is why the other casino that suggested the match as highly suspicious still graded the match. Which means they are still not sure with their findings.

If you're into charity, donate from your commission and not from people's winnings.
If you're into righteousness, build a church or whatever.

You're a betting platform so I hope I don't have to explain to you how the betting world works. You can't call something matchfixing simply because you don't like it.

The counterpart in this bet should not be compensated in any case considering that he lost the bet. What kind of idea is it to begin with?

If you want to protect yourselves and your players, maybe don't offer the possibility of betting crazy amounts on amateur sports? That would decrease your commission though, that's probably why it didn't cross your mind.

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This looks like a simple case of you needing to return funds to the player and it would be good for your business that you speed up the process of doing it.
You risk losing your reputation with the arguments you've provided so far.

I do support arbitrators (plural, not singular), but as I said - I don't think they are needed at all.

i ask for the nth time,

is the market maker in these bets Pinnacle ?

All of that proof does paint a bad picture for the punter, but >99.9% likelihood of him being a scammer is inaccurate since this is just your opinion. There is a decent possibility that he is a legit punter with a megaton of bad luck.

An arbitrator is the only way to fully resolve this mess and I suggest contacting Pinnacle themselves in this context. Y'all are literally using their odds after all.

Hilarious reply, really.
No other site voided or even flagged these games, only you.
And because you have the OPINION that something is wrong you confiscate over 55000$ from a player. For me this sounds like a scam to be honest.
You can't present any proof, just your opinion. That doesn't give you the right to take a player's money.
And coming around the corner with a "we would donate the amount" is even more ridiculous. This reminds me of the J4 poker controversy between Garrett Adelstein and Robbi Jade Lew. Suspicion, blaming and saying you would donate the amount that isn't rightfully yours.

You should seriously overthink what and how you are posting here because what you are writing doesn't do you any favours tbh.

THIS
if its highly suspicious already
why u are waiting that he won more to dot this
u could just suspend his account at the moment u tagged him as highly suspicious

@holeydarnkness

We discovered the account in a routine check. No other bookmaker has voided these bets as far as we know. We only heard/read, that some of these matches were regarded highly suspicous. But as there was no hard proof, they were graded.

We tagged the account as highly suspicious before we even discovered that the account actually belongs to an Ukrainian individual and that these players, who lost the match seemingly on purpose were also Ukrainian.

The market maker / counterparty in this bet  has actually hedged the bet we learnt, so he does not have to be compensated if arbitrator decides so. It would also be acceptable for us and the market maker, if we donated the 799mBTC to charity.  Just giving it back to the alleged criminal involved in match-fixing would be the wrong thing to do.


@efialtis

We only live off the commission. Our only incentive here is to keep our site clean and send a clear message to all scammers. That's also why our sites are invite-only.


The whole betting world would be better off, if 99.9% likelihood  that a certain user is a scammer would be sufficient to confiscate funds and send it to charity.  100% proof is often difficult to achieve.  

All things combined, we see a > 99.9% likelihood, that @newfish1 is somehow involved in betting fraud.



And we are still looking for an arbitrator.  It can be anyone with some online reputation in the sector. We reached out to Sportsbookreview. AskGamblers unfortunately refused.

If you are interested, please apply via [email protected] or in this thread.

this is no stock exchange. they are copying pinnacle. what they write is complete nonsense. if finland finds out about this post it will condemn them

Actually the bookie you mention (stake) did not just void the bets, they voided them and also kept his initial wager, basically showing him the door without giving him his deposit or whatever.


Well, I couldn't have said it any better. This post pretty much sums it up perfectly and this is exactly what went through my mind as well.
Hopefully fairlay will finally also reply to some constructive criticism and not only what they feel is right. If players that bet on the opposite side of the "fixed match" have been refunded or not has still not been answered, even though I and other people asked that several times.
Also how they are getting involved even though they just offer the platform for people to place bets against each other rather than playing against the house is also beyond me. Fairlay should have had no loss, they collect their fee no matter what.
That's how an exchange works, right?

I remember one case on the forum that involved some kind of match fixing in an NBA game, and what the bookie did was not confiscate the players funds immediately but delayed the withdraw to the player has investigations were going on...a few weeks later NBA player was found guilty by the NBA and if I recall well I think this bet should have been settled void.

Now ,am thinking in a case you suspect a match is fixed, don't you have channels to follow to raise an alarm for such matches to be investigated because calling it by yourselves makes you  judge, jury, and executioner and this should not be based on your own  suspicion.

So if the matches involved have no official communication from these football bodies about match fixing, then player shouldn't be punished this way but you could use your  discretion to cut your business ties with the player based on their playing style... perphaps refund deposit and close their account!!

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Reuploaded https://imgur.com/a/OmcQ2dB to talkimg


Looks normal to me  

Well... umm... this is awkward.

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Actually... what you provided there are the ones that I look during my initial cursory glance, and they're not quite successful in painting a good picture of your past betting history. But I [personally] believe that is not necessary anymore. The one provided by OP from their own platform shows what's needed: that there is not much difference.

If I may explain, my previous inquiry was to see for myself whether there is a sudden change of betting preference that will clearly indicate a foul play [e.g. you usually bet on major league and suddenly placed bets on the problematic matches in question].

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And I'm still looking for your help in understanding this case better. Hopefully it can be achieved from your answer to my past questions. Do you mind?

Allow me to repeat:

It would be very fitting to have you as the first member of the arbitrage panel.

I agree, Fairlay reached out to you, so they obviously agree also. Its your decision.

Do you agree please ?

Thanks

The guy clearly has the same betting pattern from his old bets compared to the current bet which fixed match is being accused based on the betting history you provided with this screenshot.

The bets was placed on different date with huge gap. Judging from the betting history, he is just having a tough luck or probably following a good bet call. I believe the higher winning percentage is what fuel the fixed match accusation but the guy is using your platform for many months with same betting pattern.

He has a solid insider info if all his bets is from a fixed match. You should just restrict him rather than banning him if he is winning frequently.

@Fairlay Some questions and thoughts from our side (BTCGOSU/GOSUBETTING)

1.) What is your role in the markets? Is your business model based solely on the fact that you “live” from commissions? If so, you couldn't care less about any of this in the first place?!

2.) Why do you want to cancel/void? Out of your own initiative or because another user complained because he lost a lot?!

3.) After consulting with tyKiwanuka (a professional sports bettor and industry insider), we agree that an exchange should basically never cancel/void - there are always fixed games and most of the time you don't realize it - if you start canceling/voiding now, you have discussions every day. Plus, as you said yourselves, other bookies may have marked the matches as suspicious but that obviously wasn`t enough since they graded the bets. Needless to say that most of the time, it`s not even possible to prove fixes.

4.) Example from tyKiwanuka`s personal experience: Betfair once canceled/voided tennis matches from Davydenko. It was a clear fix, but he still thought voiding was stupid, even if it meant he got my loss back. Sometimes you benefit from fixes, sometimes you lose, that's just the way it is and part of the game. Ultimately, it's a competition between bettors - with all that that entails.

5.) Normally, exchanges only cancel if they have lost a lot themselves. However, a good exchange does not interfere in the markets, but only takes the commission. That`s why to us, 1.) is very important and we are curious to learn more.

6.) A very important point from a bettor perspective is being able to rely on bets standing.

Scenario:

I bet (live) on a match at Fairlay and it goes well. I'm not a fixer and don't know anything about the fix. But now it's getting a bit too hot for me and I hedge my bets elsewhere (could be next goal markets or similar, which may not be available at Fairlay).

Now Fairlay cancels, but the others don't:

All profit is gone.

The loss from my hedging remains.

-> An honest bettor was punished because an exchange canceled/voided.

Looking forward to hearing back from you.

I totally agree. As far as i am concerned, I feel that all the members of BitcoinTalk community mentioned here, that have replied in this thread, are worthy nominees for the panel. I have no objections.

I think we can proceed and confirm those panel members finally, if they are ok with it. I look forward to it.

Thank you.

I think good arbitrators aren't just about people who bust scams. That's to me very different. You need a few things.

Someone who is trusted to act on the right side, and who has shown in many instances that they can be trusted
Also well known in the gambling section, who also gambles, and has long experience there (this is super important to me)
Also knows the sports involved, this is about football matchfixing
Also has history of helping forum without payment or recognition

I don't disagree about holydarkness or anyone else mentioned, but I mentioned the ones I said because they fit all the above criteria, they actually gamble, they know the different sportsbooks, and I believe more important, they have been involved in arbitration before. At least I know two of them personally arbitrated, one even for me many years ago. They didn't take payment, and didn't even ask for acknowledgment, and even I know two of them helped sooo many people but you don't even see trust rating for that.

One more thing to respect objectivity and transparency Both Fairlay and the accused user should agree on this 'panel' also, and communication should be out in open, not in PMs. Just my 2 cents!

We are still looking for an arbitrator and are in contact with AskGamblers.com and others.    If you have further suggestions for parties that resolve these cases in a quick manner, please share them with us! Thanks a lot!

Here again a full betting history of the user

Page 1 / All bets won

Ilves Kissat vs. Tampere United   2.259   Ilves Kissat +4.0   98.99   05/19/2024 12:18   124.68   05/19/2024 12:44
Ilves Kissat vs. Tampere United   2.519   Ilves Kissat +4.0   150.00   05/19/2024 12:17   227.96   05/19/2024 12:44
Ilves Kissat vs. Tampere United   2.169   Ilves Kissat +3.75   149.99   05/19/2024 12:16   175.43   05/19/2024 12:44
Ilves Kissat vs. Tampere United   2.209   Ilves Kissat +3.75   150.00   05/19/2024 12:15   181.37   05/19/2024 12:44
Ilves Kissat vs. Tampere United   2.639   Ilves Kissat +4.0   150.00   05/19/2024 12:15   245.90   05/19/2024 12:44
Ilves Kissat vs. Tampere United   2.769   Ilves Kissat +4.0   100.00   05/19/2024 12:13   176.99   05/19/2024 12:44
Centro Limoeirense vs. Clube Atletico Torres   2.069   Centro Limoeirense +5.5   49.65   05/18/2024 13:25   53.11   05/18/2024 13:53
Centro Limoeirense vs. Clube Atletico Torres   1.653   Centro Limoeirense +5.0   50.00   05/18/2024 13:25   32.67   05/18/2024 13:53
Centro Limoeirense vs. Clube Atletico Torres   1.892   Centro Limoeirense +5.25   49.00   05/18/2024 13:24   43.75   05/18/2024 13:53
Centro Limoeirense vs. Clube Atletico Torres   2.089   Centro Limoeirense +5.5   49.67   05/18/2024 13:24   54.11   05/18/2024 13:53
Centro Limoeirense vs. Clube Atletico Torres   1.909   Centro Limoeirense +5.25   49.99   05/18/2024 13:24   45.45   05/18/2024 13:53
Centro Limoeirense vs. Clube Atletico Torres   2.179   Centro Limoeirense +5.5   74.70   05/18/2024 13:23   88.10   05/18/2024 13:53
Centro Limoeirense vs. Clube Atletico Torres   2.019   Centro Limoeirense +5.25   50.00   05/18/2024 13:21   50.96   05/18/2024 13:53
Centro Limoeirense vs. Clube Atletico Torres   1.787   Centro Limoeirense +5.0   50.00   05/18/2024 13:21   39.37   05/18/2024 13:53
Centro Limoeirense vs. Clube Atletico Torres   2.618   Centro Limoeirense +4.25   74.22   05/18/2024 13:17   120.11   05/18/2024 13:50
Botafogo FC SP vs. Inter de Bebedouro   1.990   Botafogo FC SP -2.5   70.00   05/17/2024 18:42   69.30   05/17/2024 19:11
Botafogo FC SP vs. Inter de Bebedouro   2.790   Botafogo FC SP -3.0   70.00   05/17/2024 18:41   125.30   05/17/2024 19:11
Botafogo FC SP vs. Inter de Bebedouro   2.730   Botafogo FC SP -3.0   70.00   05/17/2024 18:41   121.10   05/17/2024 19:11
Botafogo FC SP vs. Inter de Bebedouro   1.917   Botafogo FC SP -2.5   80.00   05/17/2024 18:40   73.36   05/17/2024 19:11
Botafogo FC SP vs. Inter de Bebedouro   2.490   Botafogo FC SP -3.0   70.00   05/17/2024 18:40   104.30   05/17/2024 19:11
Botafogo FC SP vs. Inter de Bebedouro   2.180   Botafogo FC SP -2.75   70.00   05/17/2024 18:40   82.60   05/17/2024 19:11
Botafogo FC SP vs. Inter de Bebedouro   2.070   Botafogo FC SP -2.5   74.00   05/17/2024 18:39   79.18   05/17/2024 19:11
Botafogo FC SP vs. Inter de Bebedouro   2.760   Botafogo FC SP -3.0   59.00   05/17/2024 18:38   103.84   05/17/2024 19:11
FC Kiffen vs. FC Futura   2.860   FC Kiffen -4.5   100.00   05/12/2024 13:27   186.00   05/12/2024 13:55
FC Kiffen vs. FC Futura   2.840   FC Kiffen -4.5   100.00   05/12/2024 13:27   184.00   05/12/2024 13:55


Page 2   as screenshot as some bets are lost

https://imgur.com/a/OmcQ2dB

I have actually provided already a screenshot of history of one of the books I use. Apart from a 50+ thousand bet on Usyk, you can actually see the bets on the same Finish championship, for example. You can check in detail in this post.

The other ones will be provided to the arbitrator panel. As right now I am the only side providing any evidence, explanations and answering questions. Fairlay simply decides to ignore all the questions and instead to forge the evidence (as proved here)

Having said that, as promised, I will provide a little explanation of my betting strategy with an example, that actually once again proves that I have done nothing wrong. Just need a little bit more time.

This? With AskGamblers?


I am failed to see how. I do a quick check at AG and didn't see fairlay as one of the platform they reviewed and mediate.

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newfish1, still waiting for those betting history across platforms from during the period of the bet in question. If you don't mind to provide it here, the soonest you provide them, the soonest one or two thing can be crossed from the list.