Topic: Re: Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $0.49/GH/s - page 130. (Read 96804 times)

No, they would likely not have.  

There is absolutely no reason to sell 4 Th/s for the same or relatively close price as a company can sell 2 Th/s.  If nothing else keep the other 2 Th/s and mine for yourself.  

Any business' goal is to maximize profits for itself.  It's their entire reason for existence.  We're not buddies, pals, or friends.  Most corporations will give the least amount they can for the buck, and in this case the least amount of compensation they can reasonably get away with.  Not because they're evil, but because they're running a business.  

At this point the other companies have stepped up, making this compensation based on delays a competitive factor.  Pre-orders are risky stuff, everyone knows that.  To this point all of that risk has been on the customers, however, this paradigm has shifted, with the other majors realizing that this will not work in the long term, as competition emerges in the marketplace and consumers have a more robust range of choices.

In the future, who gets your 5-10K, the company that made sure you didn't take a serious hit, and therefore reduces your risk when asking you to fund their R&D via pre-orders; or the company that does not compensate properly relative to the competition, thereby making their products and company the riskiest proposition in the market, for the same $/Gh.  At that point the others have relatively little risk, the one with inadequate compensation is a total crapshoot and you might be firing your several thousand dollars down a mineshaft.  It's a no-brainer.  No one in their right mind would send money to a company that provides little to no insurance for it, for lack of a better term, while their direct competition is doing otherwise.  

Kano, just so you know, your post counts as shit by your own yardstick as there isn't anything definitive to say other than people aren't happy with the 25% announcement they received by email. If there is, why did you cease to quote or paraphrase it? Maybe you just preferred critique. No matter, everything you said was shit.

So you can keep the general criticism and shit flowing out of your mouth if you like but you're not fooling anyone, the only thing you're saying is shit. The reason you don't know what's going on is that you've rocked up recently and you haven't been following what is going on. Sure, you might have read it, but you still can't really follow it by your own admission.

So cut the shit Kano, or you'll be wading through even more shit, half of it by your own making.

Consider the fact that KNC and Coinerra beat blackarrow and will cause the difficulty to rise much more, thus any compensation provided after the fact will be worth less.

Okay then. Please consider KNC and Cointerra's compensations versus your own and find a better solution.
Thanks.

Not that I don't believe you, but if you live in Denver, why does your local time indicate that you're on the east coast?
Same thing goes for blackarrow - his local time indicated that he's in Europe, not China.
The more transparency we get, the better people feel.

Where are you? I assume you're somewhere in Europe.

Back on topic: can you share with us what y'all have discussed so far? bobsag3 has been in the UK for a whole day now. What progress has been made?

So this post is all lies?:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/black-arrow-28nm-100ghash-bitcoin-asic-from-049ghs-294197
Even though he has links to back it up.

So you're saying that the person who operates the blackarrow account does not have the name "Willie Carson"?

Yeah, but the chances of business partners of having the same last name and not being related is kinda slim. Granted that Carson is not a unique last name, but okay.. whatever you say. Looking forward to whatever update you can provide tomorrow.

So it's just a coincidence that y'all have the same last name? >_>

So.. Blackarrow and bobsag3 are related (brothers/cousins)? Guess it makes sense since he was the first reseller

I understand you're too lazy to read what I wrote above about ebay having more than just their American site. I also appreciate that you're probably trying to forget that you're likely to have been 75% scammed but it's pretty weak denying that most commentators here are customers seeking information/clarification/refunds or even just some official comment on BA's insufficient email to customers.

It should also be clear that I prefer Whack-A-Mole to riding dinosaurs. What is unclear is how that paddle that has remained up your arse and has somehow obscured your vision at the same time, but if you stopped pretending that fairies, unicorns and rainbows will restore lost customer funds and hashing time, you might be just see that the two other people you quoted above were customers who... wait for it... were seeking further information.

Stop huffin' the glue, it's doing you no favours at all.

Given the situation is mostly unknown with regards to where customers actually stand, the real issue is not other people allegedly creating fud - fear, uncertainty, doubt - it's why are you so determined to engender the opposite? - hope, certainty, belief - when you yourself are just as much up shit creek without a paddle as every other customer.

It's time you took you took the paddle out of your arse and stopped accusing any non-fanboi commentators of spreading fud when the vast majority of posters are customers seeking further information and getting no suitable answers.

No, cuz I don't think very many people are eager to spend more money right now. Any new offers BA decides to give us should not be related to us having to spend more money than we already have. Sure, that could be a good offer for the future if someone wants to be a repeat customer. But not a good offer for compensation for this debacle.

I'm not sure that thanks are in order for bringing me back into the conversation Michel, I had hoped just to sit this out today and watch events unfold before commenting further but it seems you need to have your horizons expanded a little, not surprising really after the gripping and informative three lines of nothing that your 'trusted entity' didn't say while on tour when he should have been looking after his customers.

There's no doubt that artistic licence is rather wasted on most of the crowd of BA-believers here who take things too literally. You're quite correct though, I was lax with the expression "mountains of Prosperos spamming ebay" as we all know there's not mountains of anything on ebay and so far I haven't see anyone sell a mountain there yet although I did hear of the Chinese buying a copper mountain in Chile a while back but that's another story.

You need to be congizant that it's not just Americans who have ebay, although I did check the American ebay site and was surprised to see that a roaring trade must be happening in unwanted Prospero preorders as it was rightly pointed out there's only two left remaining for sale there. Maybe Australians are a bit more wary as they haven't managed to soak up all the supply with six still on the books on the Australian ebay site.

I haven't found any 'sales volume' feature on ebay but the rapidity in which the Prosperos started appearing on the Australian site over the last few day suggests that all confidence has been shattered and when BA senior management think they're the mole in "Whack-A-Mole" it's hard to resist the conclusion that they have something to hide.

I am glad that people are buying them on ebay as it gives many people here another avenue to reclaim their money if the option of choice, a full refund, is denied. Although selling on ebay may just be the equivalent of passing the scam onto other people, so maybe there is no way to avoid the taint that is paid-for-but-undelivered pre-orders.

Of course there's so little information that people are drowning in the secondary speculation and commentary, that's why I was hoping to sit this out and leave the way clear for Corporal Black Adder and his merry men to provide a proper State of the Union address to those eagerly gathered wondering if they've been scammed further or not.

I say scammed further as it's pretty obvious that with people being unhappy with the '25% solution' that people feel that it's more like a '75% scam'.

Anyway, I'm glad that I didn't order anything but as a potential customer and an interested community member I do hope that BA get their act together and stops taking their customers for granted.


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Exec Summary:

Whack-A-Mole
75% scam
Get their act together

People keep saying request a refund, which is what I am trying to do, but to my knowledge,minersource does not have a way to do this. So lets explore that channel and figure out a way to get me my money. If anyone wants to buy my x-3 and 8 x-1's please let me know.  People will continue to request a refund until a channel is opened by which this can happen.  If this launch will be as successful as it is still made out to be, then not many people will be requesting refunds and it shouldn't be a problem or break the bank.

And for those saying that BA can't swing anymore than 25%, that should matter very little. If you make customers happy with your product launch, you will be very well off on the future and make a ton of money, and if that means taking a loss now, well who cares. Make your customers happy and they will come back, but make your customers mad, and we won't be purchasing again in the future, and you will go broke.

yep.  Cointerra and KnC obviously recognize the fact that they can't cost their customers a ton of money and expect to survive.

Either route will work, in terms of adding hash power permanently or supplying equivalent hash power until the units are delivered.   It's math, so figure out what is the actual equivalent of the loss to customers.

On a side note, KnC's assertion that they are setting up a massive mine is bad news for the rest of us, as they're going to knock the difficulty up.

These people aren't doing these things out of a sense of decency.  It's business.  You screw your customers and you're out of business.  End of story.  Contrary to assertions that I've seen that these machines were not meant to generate fiat, that's malarkey, this is about money.  Blowing smoke to try to make it as if it is not is simply BS.

As a consumer, I'd like to see all three ASIC manufacturers survive, as this will help drive innovation and bring costs down.  If BA continues with nothing but this additional 25% for 4 months or whatever it was, they're done.  The market won't forget it.  

I won't order another BA product, period, if this is the way they treat their customers.  Even if they promise the greatest, most efficient, powerful unit in the history of the planet, their assertions, claims, promises don't mean a thing if their reputation is that they stood by and let their customers take a bath, while the other manufacturers stepped up and made it right.  

Please try to update with all of our options, these include what will happen if we decide to keep our orders and how we can go about with refund requests for those who have purchased through your site.

Thanks