Topic: Re: Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $0.49/GH/s - page 131. (Read 96796 times)

On a not unrelated note, the complete lack of confidence in the transparency, accountability and ability to deliver has resulted in the spamming up of Ebay with Black Arrow pre-order sales. Talk about desperation as people hope to retrieve their money any way they can. Six months ago it was a mountain of Jalapenos, now it's a mountain of Prosperos.

At least there were real pictures of Jalapenos, people knew what they were supposedly going to get, the only thing consistent about the Prospero is... wait for it... the slogan, "This machine is designed to generate a steady revenue of Bitcoins for the owner."

Yeah right... hopefully they actually do appear and do generate some meaningful return for the people kind enough to take BA at their word and fund the Minion ASIC development by parting with their cash.

It's time for senior management to step up, take their foot out of their mouth and address their customers.

Yeah, go the refund if you can.

I can say it's a good feeling getting a refund and then spending the money on hardware that actually exists and has been road-tested by the community. Better to pay a little bit more and have the product 'in hand' as they say rather than wait for, in one well known case, up to and over a year for units to arrive.

I'm far from unsympathetic to the cause of customers duped by manufacturers promises, I was one previously and was fortunate to take action to get a refund and tried to layout a path for others to also get refunded. You can see that my comments on page 12 of this thread were elevated to the OP in an endeavour to assist others:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/need-a-paypal-refund-for-your-bfl-purchase-295187

What has become clear is that after the fiasco involving a number of manufacturers with credit card chargebacks, paypal refunds and similar is that some hardware manufacturers became smarter at defrauding more deliberate in only accepting payment methods which were far more difficult to get refunded.

We all make mistakes and even though I read that I should stay well clear of BFL as they took many, many months to deliver, I was still optimistic enough to believe their repeated claims that 'all products would be shipped by the end of September', when as we know now, this was just another deliberate lie mis-representation of their capabilities.

So far from just chipping in on this thread for the hell of it, I am rather hoping that some new members of this forum (and there are loads of those) actually take the time to think before they spend their money and get the miners they pay for in the time frames they expect to receive them.

This just aint happening here, is it?

 

As I said above, I won't be going anywhere, I explained my reasons why the broader community needs to know about the underhanded business practices of hardware manufacturers and I sure as hell am not the first person to say that on this forum. I don't repeat myself to asshats so I won't tell you why your gullibility and stupidity allows others to get rich from your money while screwing you into the ground.

You're a fool and the worst sort of fool is the fool who doesn't know he's a fool.

Your accolades are growing by the hour, about-to-be-scammed, scammed, scammee, asshat and fool.

How about you actually address what people are saying rather than venting your frustration with meaningless teen-angst-ridden insults?

If you're wounded and people commenting on the lack of business ethics by BA and others pours salt in your wounds and makes you mad, I understand, you're not liking the pain and you're not able to lash out at BA as... wait for it... they haven't even made an official comment on their own official thread. You, their loyal customer and patsy, are being ripped so you'd prefer that people were quiet than quite rightly inform other members of the community that BA are struggling to meet any customer commitments at all.

Wounded and hurt, maybe we add those to your list? Or are you all cool again and fine with being ripped?

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Haha, yeah, it's a blast


I particularly like this post highlighting the differences between a manufacturer who can and manufacturers who can't. It also highlights the difference between what happens when customers spend money wisely and those who get torn a new asshole:



"...every single person... far better off..."

Indeed.

Read on, Lloydie, you're not even at the end of the conversation. You missed the post where the mod neatly negates the person you're ostensibly supporting then your champion flounders by trying to cherry-pick parts of my comments.

Did I forget to mention you're an asshat?

Run along now, let's hear something that resembles a paragraph of original thought when you next post. I have to say that my post about you and the dead philosophers still makes me smile, especially as it only seems to have now dawned on you that you are the about-to-be-scammed, the scammed and the scammee.

You didn't know you were more than just an asshat, did you?

 

I think you'll find that there are plenty of people who are disappointed with the conduct of BA, that's what this thread has been discussing for the last ten pages or more, so read back if you're unclear what different people have stated, I'm not going to generalise their reactions like you did in an attempt to prove my point. Suffice to say there's more than a handful of voices expressing discontent.

You asked, "Why are you so mad?" which is really quite ironic as you jumped on my earlier comment where I stated that 'there was no trolling, only a necessary holding to account' and then told me to fuck off. So am I mad? No, not really, so I just told you to fuck off back. Fair's fair, isn't it?

Anyway, I understand that you're ostensibly quite clam about the matter of delays and I suppose you're to be applauded for that. Nothwithstanding your calm, the broader forum community does have a right not only to express an opinion about yet again more customers being suckered into shouldering the business development risk of developmental ASICs, they have a right to hear what other forum members also seek to express and when we've witnessed the wilful attempts to misconstrue and lie, the charade of multiple identities being promulgated and a complete lack of official statement on this, the official thread, then miners in the market looking for new hardware like me are going to express themselves and there's not a damn thing you can do to prevent it, however much confidence you might have in BA, people will not be silenced and should not be silenced or ridiculed as they do their due diligence.

So yeah, I'll be watching this threat, commenting from time to time, learning more, seeing if the 'holding to account' does generate better customer outcomes and you can be sure that other potential buyers and perhaps potential hardware companies will be looking at this thread and the associated outcry.

As commenters above have alluded to, it's saying something when the level of communication with customers is so bad that it's being ranked as worse than the acknowledged lowest standard in the industry:


It's precisely these sort of observations that allow potential purchasers time to pause for thought, evaluate alternatives and not just blindly perpetuate dubious business practices which aren't in customers interests at all, they're only in the interests of those companies who are prepared to fleece their customers and pretend it's ok because other companies have done it. Two wrongs don't make a right, never has, never will.

No mate, you can fuck off yourself asshole. When members of the community provide information that informs the community at large of nefarious dealings, inconsistent statements, broken promises and attempts to defraud, it sure as hell isn't trolling, it's holding people to account.

If you don't like it that's too fucking bad.

I do hope you get your hardware but in the meantime, direct any anger you have to those who've deliberately lied to you about realistic delivery dates, those who've suckered you in to take the investment risk normally taken by venture capitalists who also become part owners in the business and who have dangled you out on the customer thread with very limited upside, that is, assuming you get a product at all.

You may not like it, but your attempts to shout down meaningful criticism do you no service at all.

I do not think others are requesting in front of me, to my knowledge there is no direction so far on how one can receive a refund.

Correction, there is no trolling.  The information being provided and the holding of supposed responsible parties to account is more than acceptable, it is completely necessary and is one of the few reasons why any disclosure at all is taking place by a company who received funds in good faith from customers but whose good faith is far from being repaid.

I am leaning towards refund, Bobsag, are we getting some direction on how this could be accomplished?

SANDWICHES!!!!!! YAY! sorry to hear about your sign btw

I seem to be at an injunction here.  I think, given the increase in hashrate and compensation plans, that my orders will still be profitable if delivered, but strong evidence is mounting in the other direction that I could never receive a unit.  So the question is, do I take the chance or ask for a refund?   Hmm...dilemmas.

Also, it seems my question is not being answered on the BA forums,  is the 25% increase in hashrate coming from post new chip specs, AKA 120 GH/s a chip, or from pre new chip specs, 100 GH/s a chip?

The answer to this question is the difference of a couple of hundred of GH/s per unit, so clarification would be nice.

For the key information and quality entertainment, at least read from page 85 onwards.

I can just hear dead philosophers turning in their graves as they muse over the moral quandry while rubbing their chins where beards may once have grown:

"Hmm... who is more morally good, the scammed or those that did advise the about-to-be-scammed of the scammer?"

On balance, the dead philosophers would probably declare that those who did advise the about-to-be-scammed of the perils of doing business with the scammer would have the higher quotient of goodness in their hearts as they took it upon themselves to inform the about-to-be-scammed of the risks that lay in wait for them. Those about-to-be-scammed who were then in fact scammed cannot seek to claim moral goodness by trumpeting that those who tried to help them avoid being scammed lack goodness in their heart.

As is the way with dead philosophers, with one moral question having been decided to their current satisfaction, they turn further in their graves but not having any other issue on the matter to address, cease stroking their chins where beards may once have grown...

...that is, until one of the dead philosophers with a puzzled expression asks,

"If we know who the about-to-be-scammed, the scammed and the scammer is, then who is the scammee?"

And so in death as in life, questions continue, chins are rubbed where beards may once have grown and the cycle of existence doth continue.







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And for the non-philosophically minded there's some information here http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/scammee

The pool operator (wizkid) claims to know who is behind that address too. My guess is BFL.

Congrats. You did a search for Matt Carson and found a profile that admitted that it was the owner of minersource.net.
You're such a sleuth. You should work for the FBI

So why don't the engineers create forum accounts (if they haven't already) and post here themselves? It takes 5 minutes to post a picture. No one is that busy that they can't make a post once a week.

Damn good question.  The ones that get screwed are those that funded this debacle?

BA pockets rental income, renters get hash power and people that ponied up thousands are left twisting in the wind.

WTF is that crap?! 

Very good point, can we get an official statement on this please BA.

I have reached out for confirmation

I am guessing that was a mistake, I have seen elsewhere that the rent-a-minion people also got emails saying it would be delayed.  Probably a misunderstanding or miscommunication somewhere here.

How is that possible? If the Rent-Some-Minions will be ready in March then why doesn't everyone who is promised 25% not have their cloud hosting started on March instead of May?