Topic: Russian Gas ban - A problem for Europe or suicide for Russia? - page 17. (Read 14504 times)

It's not rigidity.
This is meanness, sadism, cowardice, lawlessness. The "Russian world" is built on this. And this applies to everything - from the attitude towards their population, and to international rules and obligations.
Remember "Putin's ascent" - in order to raise the rating of this ghoul, Kremlin terrorists blew up houses in Russia, with hundreds of inhabitants. Then they threw the blame on Ichkeria, and accepted this as an excuse for the destruction of the people of Ichkeria, who voted for freedom and independence. In Ukraine, both civilians and prisoners of war were brutally destroyed - only to intimidate, realizing that Ukrainians are people who value freedom and independence, and Russia is the concept of the Middle Ages, total slavery.
Well, on the topic of the topic - realizing that huge sanctions and fines are on the horizon for violating gas supplies to the EU, Russia blew up its gas pipeline in order to find a reason for not fulfilling the terms of the gas supply agreement ....

Great infor shared.
Now its more than a year and there is no end to the war. Last night I was watching MH370 mystery and the documentary guy discovered that MAlayasian air line was disappeared by Russian to have diversion on their attack at Criamera in 2014. Russia has always been very brutal

Hungary, in the person of Orban, is the usual "pet dog" of the Kremlin, which was bought by the Kremlin "with giblets", and does everything that it is ordered from the Kremlin, even that which harms its country and its population. Look at the position of Orban and his entourage - all that his master demands is Putin, he will unquestioningly go through everything, receiving a handout in return
But this is the position of a traitor to the country and people of Hungary. And I do not rule out that Hungary will soon leave the EU or will be very limited in EU financial assistance, on which they are highly dependent. But other countries, as it turned out, very simply refused completely from the gas of the terrorist country, and I am sure that by 2024 they will completely stop purchasing, even 1 cubic meter of gas. Although the option is not ruled out that in 2024 Russia will already begin to pay reparations, and gas and oil will become the basis for ensuring these reparations. But neither Russia nor the Russians will receive income from this sale. About the latter, this is generally expected, because. they never received a single penny from the resources of the country, which were monopolized by a gang of kleptomaniacs

logically it's just not possible to stop gas from Russia, besides it will experience price increases of up to 50 to 60% and also the European Union may stop all transportation which is a routine for the EU every day. then if Russia will stop it for the EU, what about Europe and will take the oil or gas from the safe? I think Europe will be even more chaotic without gas and oil supplies from Russia

I'll just leave this here. This "industrial inflation" index shows how much more expensive it was for producers to manufacture products in the EU. Consumer inflation has also already reached double digits in many EU countries. Guess what was the cause for this?

Cultural and commercial cooperation between Europe and Russia is, in my opinion, a natural historical process. 

Europe and Russia are located on the same continent, so it is quite logical that the supply of natural gas and oil from Russia would go to Europe, and not to other countries.  Another thing is that a catastrophe occurred, which, in particular, led to the rupture of trade relations between Russia and the European Union. 

I don't believe it's forever....

I do not believe in a strong alliance between Russia and China (which is really a dangerous geopolitical neighbor for Russia).  Even less promising, in my opinion, are political alliances with Islamic states. 

Yes, it is necessary to maintain friendly relations with all countries, but cultural differences between different countries are a serious obstacle to long-term political alliances.

Sadly, it's around 25 percent - Eu Gas Supply

Europe made a mistake by getting itself very dependent on Russian gas but it's also true that it was cheap and easy to transport that made it very attractive. But being very dependent was definitely a mistake and it again proves that centralization is very bad, especially if it turns into a hands of bad guy.

It's hilarious how oil and gas import was and is still a huge problem because of Russia-Ukraine war and at the same time, gas and oil companies are the ones profiting the most.
It's also hilarious how pharma companies and doctors are making tons of profit during pandemics.
Conclusion: This world is still a jungle, Darwin was right

It's very interesting to see how will revenues from oil and gas export will go for Russia in 2023. 2022 was not a good year for prediction.

Yes, like 20 percent of natural gas Europe still receives from Russia. 

As far as I remember, Russian gas is actively consumed by Hungary and another European country whose name I forgot.  In fact, this can be seen as a break in partnerships for the supply of natural gas. 

At the same time, the supply of natural gas from the USSR to Europe was not interrupted even during the Cold War (in the 20th century).  This is a consequence of the fact that purely trade relations have given way to geopolitical games. 

As a result, Europe receives natural gas from the US and Arab countries.  India and China have shifted their focus to gas supplies from Russia. 

Globally, the whole world bears economic losses from all this. 

Only oil and gas companies, as well as sea carriers and tanker manufacturers, are getting richer.  All other individuals and legal entities bear economic losses.

It is a pleasure to read your posts - everyone writes for serious, and you pour jokes non-stop, and so funny )))

Everyone knows that Russia was the only beneficiary in this situation. Because it was Russia's only option to avoid HUGE penalties, more than even the cost of building a new gas pipeline, due to the fact that Russia stopped gas supplies to the EU and violated (generally expected) all supply contracts. Why violated? Because she engaged in economic terrorism against the EU, and then the cowards ran away from the "battlefield", referring to force majeure, in the form of a "damaged gas pipeline as a result of unexplained circumstances."
And the whole world knows that Russia is a terrorist country, which, for example, just for the sake of strengthening the image of the president (we are talking about Putin, no one has done this before him) calmly blew up entire residential buildings with its citizens, killing hundreds of its citizens in order to to give a pretext for unleashing a war against independent Ichkeria.

That is factually incorrect. Although the Nordstream pipeline was destroyed by NATO saboteurs, Russian gas is still flowing to Europe through the three remaining pipelines (Yamal–Europe, TurkStream and Urengoy–Pomary–Uzhhorod). On top of that a large part of the LNG that lands in Europe comes from two of the Russian LNG projects (Yamal and Portovaya). Without these supplies, Europe will be struggling to maintain adequate levels of natural gas in the reserves. More than one year has passed since the start of the war, and Europe is still dependent on Russian gas.

Russian gas has been banned from the European Union in order to punish the country for its continued support of separatist forces in Ukraine. This has been a major issue for Europe, who is losing access to Russian gas at a time when they needed it most. Russia's economy is also suffering from this situation, as they are counting on European customers to sustain a significant portion of their economy. The real question is how will this affect Europe and how will it affect Russia?

The latest Russian gas crisis has caused international markets to panic, sparking a selloff that has sent Russia's stocks into free fall. The European Union (EU) and Ukraine have taken drastic measures to escalate their response, which could ultimately lead to Russia's total economic collapse and international isolation.

The European Union has been accused of excessive Cold War–style "sabre-rattling" after it threatened Russia with new sanctions over an abnormal gas supply to Europe.

Putin’s decision last week to suspend all Russian gas sales to the European Union has triggered a dramatic collapse in current oil prices, and what was once an obscure confrontation between Moscow and Kiev over natural resource sales is suddenly becoming a test of wills between Europe’s biggest economy, Germany, and its most powerful nation.

And another digression into the "positive consequences of sanctions for Russia"

1. Anti-corruption officials have been declared undesirable, they are imprisoned for investigating corruption, they want to legalize money laundering. The Russian Union of Industrialists and Entrepreneurs came up with an initiative to legalize money laundering through the transfer of money under FORGED DOCUMENTS!!!
2. Official communiques, yes, yes, exactly official statements:
Putin and Lavrov: "most countries of the world support Russia, for example, African countries are for us!"
VTB head Kostin: "the bank will be forced to close its subsidiary in Angola due to sanctions."
3. Turkey stopped the transit of sanctioned goods to Russia after US claims. The largest hub for circumventing sanctions and parallel imports is closing: Turkish customs stopped clearing goods for Russia without explanation.
4. Mass non-payment of salaries to state employees began in Russia. Debts to teachers in the regions jumped 12 times. The total amount of debt increased 15 times, Rosstat reported.

It's not very easy for companies to move out of China to destinations like India. According to World Bank list of countries based on ease of doing  work in 2019, China is at 31st position while India is at 63 position. But we can't predict how things can change in future. Right now China is one of biggest economies of the World and they will definitely adopt strategy that won't hurt there economic supremacy.

I researched this issue and came to the conclusion that the claims that India and China are buying Russian hydrocarbons at a big discount are greatly exaggerated ....

In this respect, Russia has not become dependent on India and China.  India and China do not have the ability to dictate the terms of the deal to Russia. 

This is due to the fact that currently India and China have no alternative suppliers of oil and natural gas.  Arab countries and the US are now supplying hydrocarbons to Europe.  After all, Europe has abandoned Russian oil and gas.  European countries are now buying hydrocarbons from other suppliers.  And these other suppliers, respectively, are not currently working with India and China. 

Therefore, Russian hydrocarbons are sold to these two countries at normal market prices. 

At the same time, Russia incurs losses in the form of increased transportation costs for the delivery of hydrocarbons to the seaports of India and China.

Well.. that is wrong. A majority of the oil trade between India and Russia is conducted through intermediaries in the United Arab Emirates, and the payment is being done using United Arab Emirates Dirham (AED). Some of the trade is also being done using the Chinese Yuan (CNY). These "intermediaries" are mostly Russian nationals based in the UAE. They are the ones who provide freight and insurance and they earn close to $15 per barrel. Indians wanted to make payments using the Indian Rupee, but the Russian exporters are not much interested. And the trade balance between the two countries have swung to Russia's favor, with Russia exporting goods valued at more than 10 times of what it imports from India.

Of course, the current problem with gas for Europe is not entirely pleasant for her. But these are only logical responses. Russia first attacked Ukraine and tried to destroy it, and then began to blackmail Europe with oil and gas so that they would not interfere in the genocide in Ukraine. After Europe finally realized that in the event of the seizure of the territory of Ukraine, Putin would continue aggression towards Europe and the war could come to their homes, only then did they decide to lose economic benefits and even incur material losses, but at the same time pacify the aggressor. In this situation, things and goals of a more global nature than just economic benefits are at stake.

I partly agree
In fact, the promotion of any idea is, in a sense, propaganda. Or advertising
The only question is - is this an advertisement based on facts or is it a fake advertisement!
This is a huge difference.
Let me clarify - Russian propaganda is built solely on fakes and attempts to mislead its population and groups of people with pro-Russian views. Just watch and read their media! By the way, the media with TOTAL control of the state and the legislative framework, the purpose of which is to completely exclude any other opinions and even the publication of FACTS.
The US also has propaganda. But it is not based on total fakes. Yes, they recognize that the world is not unipolar, there are countries that can act as a regional or geopolitical counterweight to the United States. But in the same USA there is no total propaganda similar to this one - "everyone except us are nonentities, we will destroy everyone, this is our right. Everyone attacked us. We are surrounded by enemies. Russia wants to take over our resources and China wants to make us homosexuals" and etc.

Regarding NATO, NATO did not invite us into its membership. And a very important note - until February 2014, Ukraine did not even have ideas about joining NATO. Just read the Ukrainian legislation. The first official document appeared only in 2018, when Ukraine appreciated and realized that any peaceful dialogues and agreements with Russia do not make sense! And only after that a meaningful decision was made on the POTENTIAL opportunity to enter this bloc in the future to strengthen the security of Ukraine. The narrative that “Russia took preemptive steps because Ukraine is joining NATO” began to be dispersed already when President Poroshenko was in power, who really built relations with the West and accelerated the rupture of ties (economic and non-economic) with Russia. But by this time, Russia had already been destroying Ukrainian cities for 4 years, the population, seizing territories ... Before that, if you listen to Putin's speeches, the goal of the attack on Ukraine was ... "saving the Russian-speaking population" ... by destroying it ...

By the way, Putin's opinion and his vision of what Ukraine is for him is the fruit of his complexes. By the way, let me remind you that the Russian rhetoric about Putin as "the collector of the territories of the USSR, up to the borders of the Warsaw Pact" appeared after 2010, and apart from imperial ambitions and a sense of permissiveness (due to the softness of the West) there was nothing under it. And that was BEFORE the attack on Ukraine. At the same time, at that time, NATO had not expanded its borders for a long time, and many combat units in the EU were disbanded altogether.

By the way, about the Caribbean crisis, I will clarify - it was not the United States that initiated it. The point was a little different. The United States, within the framework of NATO, and open confrontation with the USSR, in response to the steps of the USSR, also placed nuclear weapons in NATO member countries. At that time there was a certain parity in nuclear weapons in the European part. Plus, the USSR was armed with a huge number of strategic carriers of nuclear weapons, which could hit the territory of the United States. But the USSR went to the aggravation and placed nuclear weapons in Cuba, in close proximity to the United States. This was already a challenge that led to an increase in tension and, in fact, to the very Caribbean crisis.

I am sure that with the parity of forces, neither the United States nor the European partners in NATO wanted a nuclear war, but they were obliged to show that in the event of a nuclear war from the USSR, this would lead to mutual total destruction.


UPD. "Now imagine Putin investing huge amounts of money to influence the politicians in Mexico, financing a coup, visiting Mexico and giving some cookies to locals then installing a pro-Russian president and parliament. Founding several military bases in Mexico, providing Mexico with Russian armament and military equipment and training Mexican army. So what would the US do in response to that? What do you think? It's not hard to guess, is it? Grin" - how does this example match the situation in Ukraine in 2013? ))

You mention propaganda in every post but ironically, your own posts look like propaganda more. Perhaps you can't see it but it's obvious for the reader.

You see, there's NATO and as a military alliance always has to have an enemy or a potential enemy they're grouping against. Otherwise there's no point to form an alliance! In NATO case the enemies are Russia and China. NATO has already promised they're not going to expand further east but didn't keep their promise: they accepted the Baltic States, Turkey or whoever else... then Putin found out that NATO is going to accept Ukraine and got mad probably as he considered Ukraine one of his satellite puppet states. Which is pretty normal reaction if you ask me: remember the Cuban crisis in the 50ies? The US got mad and were close to pressing the red button just after finding out the USSR plans to place some nukes in Cuba.

Now imagine Putin investing huge amounts of money to influence the politicians in Mexico, financing a coup, visiting Mexico and giving some cookies to locals then installing a pro-Russian president and parliament. Founding several military bases in Mexico, providing Mexico with Russian armament and military equipment and training Mexican army. So what would the US do in response to that? What do you think? It's not hard to guess, is it? 

I love these "Kremlin fairy tales" ))
At first, we were told for 80 years that the West wants to take over the USSR, now China
Can you LOGICALLY, without focusing on fakes and painful fantasies, bring your point of view and prove that the USA / NATO want to destroy China?
Or maybe you really think that China wants to destroy the United States and, for example, the dollar?
I will disappoint you - it is China who wants to weaken Russia, its raw materials appendage, to the utmost, but not let it be destroyed. Because Russia is an appendage for him and a country that will fulfill any whims of China And India also "uses" Russia to the fullest using its helplessness - it will buy oil for rupees (then Russia does not know where to put the rupees), then it forces the "friend" to sell oil for pennies.

But for the United States, China and even North Korea are NEEDED! Without them, there will be no trillion-dollar budgets for the military-industrial complex, there will be no money for other programs. There will be no supplier of cheap products to support the wallets of ordinary citizens ... And China is vital for the US and the dollar - China's export-oriented economy is based on large Western markets, and primarily the US. And China vitally needs TECHNOLOGIES, which no one will give them except for the West and for dollars! You just don’t quite understand how the modern world really works, but you form some fabulous stories in your mind based on propaganda

China is in a difficult situation. Politically, they want to support Russia. Because they know that once Russia is destroyed by the NATO, then it is their turn next. However, economically China needs to maintain the strong trade relationship with EU and the US. If that is disrupted, then the Western bloc will use the opportunity to move the manufacturing hubs from China, to other countries such as India and Philippines. So China is now being forced to chose between long-term benefit and short-term benefit.