Topic: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] - page 11. (Read 75276 times)

Not to distract from the above two posts, but here is Trump talking to Putin.


Trump Speaks on the Phone With Russia’s Putin, Advises Him Not To Escalate Conflict in Ukraine

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https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2024/11/trump-speaks-phone-russias-putin-advises-him-not/
After President-Elect Donald J. Trump spoke on the phone with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky on Wednesday (6), in a call with the participation of tech billionaire and new ally Elon Musk, the expectation was on as to a call with Russian President Vladimir Putin.

And today (10) reports arose that Trump has already spoken to Putin on Thursday (7) and took the opportunity to discussed the war in Ukraine, according to the Washington Post (behind a paywall).

Reuters reported:

"Trump advised Putin not to escalate the war in Ukraine and reminded him of 'Washington's sizeable military presence in Europe', the Post reported.

During the election campaign, Trump said he would find a solution to end the war 'within a day', but did not explain how he would do so."

Other sources say the two leaders also discussed peace on the European continent, as and discussed a further call soon in which they'd look into the resolution of the war in Ukraine.

One day later Friday, the Kremlin said Putin was 'ready to discuss Ukraine with Trump' but that this fact did not mean that Putin would alter Moscow's demands.

"On June 14, Putin set out his terms for an end to the war: Ukraine would have to drop its NATO ambitions and withdraw all of its troops from all of the territory of four regions claimed by Russia."

This enumeration of demands by the Reuters report is not wrong, but incomplete. There's also the question of the denazification of Kiev's regime, the demilitarization of Ukraine and the protection of the rights of the Russian-speaking population.

Ukraine rejected those demands, saying it would be capitulation.

Sky News reported:

"A Ukrainian foreign ministry spokesman has said that Kyiv was not offered any advanced notice of a reported call between Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin."
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In wars no one cares about what you want it's what you can get.

Support for sending money to Ukraine is eroding, it's uneven and much lower with republicans than democrats. Discussing what if Trump decides to ignore his party, break his promise and send even more money to the person he blames for starting war and called the greatest salesman on Earth" for having solicited and received billions of dollars of U.S. military aid, is like discussing what if Martians show up and start helping Ukraine. Let's keep the discussion to what is plausible.

This is what Donald Trump Jr tweeted just today:


Money is running out for Ukraine and everyone at the negotiation table knows it, and all outcomes must be based on this. In politics there's not always a good option available. Most of the time you have to compromise between bad and worse, and on top of that the bad/worse positions often flip between short and long terms.

Also, Ukraine has issues with manpower, North Koreans is sending some troops to Russia, even if Trump could send more money to Ukraine what do you think it would achieve?

So no, Trump will not increase aid to Ukraine and EU cannot compensate that. Zelenskiy would step down, get a cozy spot in US, and let his team negotiate the terms. In a hypothetical where he just goes mad and refuses to accept reality, his generals would find a way to force him one way or the other (as history shows).

EU officials are been silent because they're AFRAID...now, how come? In your world everyone is afraid of Russia, not USA
Maybe Gladio is still alive, after all?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/georgian-pm-says-eu-official-made-horrific-threat/ar-BB1mW6hA

This didn't address my question.

What you suggest is a way to get Ukraine to the negotiating table. That makes sense.
Trump could threaten to increase aid to Ukraine to get Russia to the table. That makes sense too.

But what happens if they can't agree? That's my question.
If Trump reduces aid to Ukraine, it emboldens China (and others), increasing the risk to US from China. The very thing you said his priority was to avoid.
If Trump increases aid to Ukraine, according to this forum thread, that will drag out the war. Trumps breaks an election promise of a quick resolve.
If Trump does nothing it's an election promise broken and China emboldened.

You see it easy to come up with simple answers to complicated problems when you're a presidential candidate with no responsibility. But Trump won, and when he takes office it will be his responsibility; simple answers to complicated problems are then not useful.

Trump sees China as its biggest risk. As such his priority would be to drive Russia as far away from China as possible.

You're still thinking of this as if Ukraine has any choice in any of this. Wars are expensive, and stopping one is easy. No money = no war. Look up what happened last time Ukrainian aid package made it through US congress. They're trying to rush the remainder of that aid out to Ukraine now, but there's only enough for Ukraine to last few more months after that...? Now consider that republicans got both chambers, and the position of speaker of the house, VP's and president on Ukraine. And now ask yourself if the next aid package will be approved, if so how long will Ukraine have to wait this time without aid, and will it be less same or more than the last one (we all see how much progress Ukraine was able to achieve with the current rate of aid).

Now there are really only two options for Ukrainian propagandists:
1-Despite what going on in the real world, just blindly claim that Trump for some reason will start sending even more money to Ukraine than Biden
2-Calim that Europe (with economic crisis and collapsed government in Germany) will somehow magically send more more aid to UA, that will compensate for US aid.

Everyone in US and EU will find these laughable, but the targeted audience for this would be UA population to keep their morale from completely collapsing.

As usual, simply just follow the money and not the lips.

Branko, you are going to get an indigestion picking so many red cherries.

I must have said 100 times that there are winners in this war but Ruzzia, Ukraine, Europe are not among them. Do you need more hints?

Europe is bracing for something more important than blabbler. Trump is as usual a factor of uncertainty, mostly because he is probably not that very certain on how he intends to do things.

It is of course normal that the US calls the shots, that is nothing new, however you appraisal of Europe not having a say is unrealistic. At the moment there is a deal that allows a great influence of the US in Europe and that is fine. However, it is not the only possible deal and if the US behaves erratically Europe will take matters into it's own hands. This applies to self-defence, military brute power, military technology and international diplomacy. If something has been proven constant in history is adaptation.

Trumps attitude may be actually what Europe needs to wake up from the dream of being peaceful in a world at war. Unfortunately we will change the peace dividend for the weapons dividend. On regards to the US, well, I am not sure Trump understands the difference between an ally and a serf, but he is about to find out if plans for tariffs are kept.

Here have a present for you:

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx28jd0114ro

Guess.... is this Kiev or Moscow... difficult to know nowadays..




The core issue is not the core issue you decide is the core issue. There are far more important events that actually affect the war:

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/eu-moves-reassure-ukraine-unwavering-support-after-trump-win-2024-11-09/

Time for Europe to stop being a child and grow into a man. If Germany has to get nukes... so be it. If a nuclear programme is required in Europe, no reason to wait 'till tomorrow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9K2BPkj0yw

To be honest, Europe may actually support Ukraine properly and not a lukewarm support like the US has shown until now. For the US is absolutely of to f*ck Ruzzia, f*ck the EU and fu*ck any other affected country, to not have a proper victory plan and let Ruzzia loose billions in oil facilities, drawn on the thousands of military equipment in storage and let Ruzzia bleed against Ukraine. Europe may have a much more practical approach - and even better for Ruzzia probably in the long term.

Trump will want Ukraine and Russia to be quickly done and dusted so he can move onto other election promises. But I think he's wading into a conflict he has little understanding of.

I mean what will Trump do if Ukraine and Russia both reject the "peace" deal?
Ukraine won't be happy with battle lines frozen because they want back what was stolen.
Russia won't be happy with battle lines frozen because they want all of Ukraine and the current government removed.

What will Trump do then do you think? I really don't know.

I guess stopping the war is kinda easy sort of.
But keeping it stopped is a totally different beast altogether; that's the hard part.

Crying propaganda just not to address the substance. What will you say of this source? https://www.gcsp.ch/digital-hub/breaking-stalemate-find-peace-russia-ukraine-war-geneva-security-debate

Do you think people that are still pushing to mobilize women and lowering mobilization age for men in Ukraine will later cope by arguing that they were just messengers too?

And just how exactly would an argument from a theoretical evil person that wants to sacrifice Ukraine and get them to fight to the last Ukrainian sound different?

Poor paxmao, top EU official just admit USA is calling shots about Ukraine
and EU absolutely has no saying, despite Ukraine been in Europe. Now
that Trump won, he can speak freely, and this is what he said:

https://x.com/RnaudBertrand/status/1855804917103124893

And there you go, step 2 attack the messenger. It was about time guys, you are loosing you sharpness.. I mean the little sharpness left. BTW I would not call myself poor Paxmao, but suit yourself. And while you argue about it, drones have closed Moscow airport and hit a few buildings here and there. I seems only logical after the Iranian Shaheds  hitting over and over. I would expect to see more of this before the "negotiations".

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/nov/10/ukraine-russia-drone-attacks-moscow-war

Who would have thought... the all mighty Ruzzia systems cannot even stop ancient technology from hitting their capital. Not good for sales.

Poor paxmao, still tryin'

Because of people like him, this deal was destroyed

https://x.com/I_Katchanovski/status/1740231338546864453

Of course, when the message does not suit your narrative you attack the source and if that is not possible attack the messenger... we all know the drill here.

But while in other cases you can argue about the sources, claim that I am whatever Zionthing or the like, this is the official interest rate which is an objective measure. It is public and you can check it in any source of you choice and you can compare it with other countries. Same with Ruble to USD parity, etc...

You can also see the industry leader's opinions in Ruzzian controlled media. They have said it very publicly.

Garbage in(*), Garbage out(**).

* clownish western mainstream rag [H|C]opium.
** of your pie-hole.

It is interesting how you are trying to make Ruzzia somehow an economic winner of this super-fiasco war, when you have the interests rates at 21% and even the business leaders are willing to put a degree of criticism (I guess they have lost the fear to flight out of a window?)

https://www.reuters.com/markets/rates-bonds/russian-industry-warns-central-banks-high-rates-hurt-crucial-new-investment-2024-10-23/


This is what I mean when I say that you need lots of money to get anything back into production in Ukraine and Ruzzia does not have it.

https://www.euronews.com/business/2024/08/15/russias-economy-the-balance-between-labour-shortage-and-military-manpower


And this is what I mean when I say you need people and ain't got it.

So Europe loses competitivity in certain industries, and Ruzzia looses money by the bucket full:

https://foreignpolicy.com/2024/05/15/gazprom-2023-results-budget-war-economy-russia-putin-europe-china/#:~:text=And%20just%20this%20month%2C%20Gazprom,predictions%20for%20the%20coming%20year.

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/gazprom-reports-9-month-loss-32-billion-2024-10-29/


So sure, go turn on the heating. Europe will have no problem this winter... nor any other, however Ruzzia will be damaging precisely the countries in the third world that cannot pay for it.

So... guess who is not money deprived... Europe is got a cold, Ruzzia is getting pneumonia. Europe can hold the current situation for 10 years if needed... Ruzzia cannot.  Funny enough, the drone strikes in Ruzzian refineries have deprived of fuel to the point that refined product had to be imported.

BTW Ruzzia is still exporting oil, but to a capped price. We can discuss if you want...

https://www.bitchute.com/video/llznJieKz2ht

It was also fairly obvious to me that this would be the case as well.  Then I observed that the West really never gave Ukraine enough to do much against Russia at any point in time.  Just 'enough rope to hang themselves' every step of the way.

To re-iterate a hypothesis:  Was Ukraine a CIA (earlier) and Ziocon (later) experiment in culturing nazisim in a controlled environment?  Ultimately, when an experiment in culturing unpleasant microbes is complete, the results are cleaned up with a few lab-leaks as possible.  Is this what happened to Ukraine?

If so, it would make sense to gain some benefits.  Dumping outdated weapons (and making a lot of people rich via associated corruption) would be a benefit.  Weakening Russia would have been a benefit, but the opposite happened.  The main question which remains in my mind is whether Russia was in on the plan before the SMO even started?

It's worth note that when I talk about 'Russia' or 'NATO', I'm only talking about a tiny number of people at the very top.  All of these generals and presidents, and often fairly bright analysts (Ritter, McGregor, etc),  and so on are past and present middle-management and would have no clue what is actually going on.

You aren't letting your imagination run. Think how strong the US and NATO would become if Russia were accepted into NATO.

One week it's BRICKEDcoin dedollarisation theme, the next week it's Russia can't get enough of the dollar theme.
Make up your mind.  

That $200 billion would come in very handy for North Korea's nuclear program, which is where most of the money would end up. Well done Trump. MAGA all the way to the mushroom cloud.  

Note that if Trump wants to shut the war down really fast, all he has to do is see to it that the US sends $200-billion to Russia. [Video included at the site.]


Vlad Putin: “We Are Ready to Speak with Trump – His Behavior When There Was an Attempt on His Life, I Was Impressed ”

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https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2024/11/vlad-putin-we-are-ready-speak-trump-his/
Two months ago Russian president Vladimir Putin announced that he was supporting Kamala Harris for US president. Obviously, Putin was hoping Kamala would continue to the destruction of the US that the Biden-Harris regime started in January 2021.

Putin liked her "expressive and contagious laughter."

Vladimir Putin: He can make a lot of mistakes. But from the outside, I can tell you that his behavior, when there was an attempt on his life, I was impressed. He's a courageous person. It's not just about the hand he raised and his call to fight for their common values and ideas.

Of course, there was a Rush of adrenaline, but a person shows their true color in these emergencies. This is precisely one of those cases. I think he acquitted himself admirably in a valiant fashion as a man.

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Sky News
@SkyNews
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BREAKING: Russian President Vladminir Putin has broken his silence on Donald Trump's election victory - claiming he's ready to speak to him.
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Europe is in crisis in part because they are energy deprived.  This after a dedicated and effective effort on multiple fronts to shoot themselves in the foot.  Why?  Who knows?  Who cares?  Seems like some mysterious group is dedicated to collapsing the West and it owns the political and media apparatus there-of and as such is getting them to happily commit suicide.

You know who isn't energy deprived?  Yeah, that's right; Russia.  When NATO has finally fought down to the last Ukrainian, much of Russia's apparatus to build multiple highly sophisticated and lethal ballistic missiles and a great many war-oriented other things will be released.  Even after the fighting stops, Russia will probably be busy building weapons which have proven to win wars for other countries which want such a capability, but what is released could probably re-build Azovstal to ultra-modern standards in a matter of months.  And again, the country has the energy resources to operate it.  And now much of the previously 'Ukrainian' raw materials which used to supply it are within the Russian Federation's control.

Keyword here "was" so not "is". It was destroyed. Mariupol is an Ukranian loss, but not much of a Ruzzian win. Steel is produced all over the world and is pretty much in crisis in Europe because it is not profitable.

As for the mineral resource, ok, yes but, again, the need investment and people to get them working again and the profits are questionable. That money would be much better placed elsewere in Ruzzia.


Oh, he knows what you mean, he is just not into reasoning or proving or discussing. He is into copy-pasting slogans from his favourite MAGA shithole.

However, there are actually important matters that change with Trump election. Zelensky spoke with Trump and what came out was the simple statement of Trump about wishing to end the war promptly. I guess he has a deal with Putin, but I am not sure what shape will that take.

However, there are hundreds of billions of frozen Ruzzian assets in Europe. It may not be as simple as pressing a gree buton and stop the aid.

BTW, it seems Ukraine has been able to hit a Ruzzian ship in the Caspian, 900 km away from the front. Ruzzia is running out of places to hide their naval assets.