Topic: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] - page 133. (Read 78223 times)

Quote from: DaRude on July 27, 2023, 11:49:46 PM

Inflation is linked to interest rates. Ruzzia keeps inflation low by having nearly double interest rates. Now, stuff more graphs there, but try to understand the basics of economy first.

Let's get this clear: do you consider the attack on grain storages in Ukraine a terrorist act? A simple yes or no will suffice. I offer you a similar direct answer to any (non personal) similar question in exchange.

RE scalations, most of your assertions are false. ATACAMS have more range, more payload and are more difficult to intercept. The stormshadows are very obviously hitting high value targets, and I mean nearly every day,... You should try to read something that is not the official propaganda. The F-35 with some of the longer range rockets do not even need to get near to the front...

RE grain production in the US... well, your graph basically proves my point. US is a grain exporter and will benefit from higher prices. It is irrelevant if Ruzzia exports more or less, the price is the price. Look, seriously, just read ANY book on economy. You need them all.

Now, it seems that you are trying to deny any and all the capabilities built during decades by US and other... it just does not fly (note the pun), those weapons are effective like hell. The US has the potential to support Ukraine up by a factor of 10. They just do not want to - for now. Putin is nearly out of escalations other than nuclear, which he would loose (not that anyone wins in that case).

Latest thing, he is now promoting conflicts in Niger and Congo. But worry not, those will be dealt with in due time, first things first.

Anyway, while you theorise, reality is making a check on all that. Ukraine is moving at a faster pace and liberating some interesting bits of territory in the Zapo front. A trust towards Tohmak has become veeeeery posible. There are also some unconfirmed data on the lack of effectiveness of the "Surovikin line" of defence - there are not enough troops to actually defend it.

Oh, BTW, you are still thinking that somehow Europe has heating problems? Have you not read anything in the last year? Europe simply buys the gas from US an Norway, the countries affected are those that cannot pay the price.

I lost your point, so interest rate in US is now 5,5% and in Russia 3% higher at 8,5% (RUB) (was 20% at one point). What's your point, that Russian economy will collapse any second now? China has become an "even more critical" economic partner for Russia, providing it with military equipment and helping the regime evade sanctions tied to the invasion of Ukraine, U.S. intelligence officials said in a report published Thursday. Totally unexpected, right? And look at Turkey, they're at 17,5% (TRY) going on few years at these high rates and they're not even at war.

Let's get this clear: do you consider the attack on grain storages in Ukraine a terrorist act?
This feels like a friend/foe, are you with/against us groupthink litmus test i.e. completely useless and devoid of reasoning. But nevertheless since you've asked nicely i'll comply. For whom Ukraine? NO.
Long answer: to objectify this, i'd frame this as country A attacking commodity for export in country B with no loss of life. Technically, strictly by definition, I guess that should be considered terrorism, but an attack on power/heating/water infrastructure is not (because that is always claimed to have military use). That's counterproductive and takes away from the real acts of terrorism. To me, terrorism is intentional, direct, or directly linked, loss or serious injury to civilian population without military justification. e.g. bomb in a subway, airliner targeted into a building, destroying food to cause hunger... But admittedly it's a spectrum, if anything I'd argue that inverse should be true, taking out a power grid in a city is more damaging to civilians than attacking some export storage.
...

So my question for you is at what point soldiers' lives should be considered and this carnage should stop being encouraged? Or are you in the "till the last Ukrainian until Crimea" camp?

Obviously the question is not if is terrorism from Ukraine, but from the RF. It is obvious that you are judging with a double scale (and assuming that there is no loss of life when attacking a silo... a long shot). It seem that the attack on the Ministry of defence is not terrorism at all by your (veeery peculiar definition).

Anyway, the Ruzzians are well past the border of terrorism since the beginning of the war, but you are going to deny and throw dirt on any proof, so I will just let the official institutions do their research and then let you deny.

You have change your view on the effectiveness of weapons... not useless after all... good, good, ... now you just to get familiarised with the differences between and we then can talk again. A million possible escalations are possible from the Ukrainian side, simply because the aid is very limited in all aspects. Just read the Ukrainian requests to US and see how they are fine with using more and better weapons that do exist.

To your question, which I have answered in many posts - the fight has to continue until a result that guarantees a future stable peace is reached. It is no use to surrender "to save lives" if the conditions for the next invasion are setup. As of now, if Putin gets his way to a significant degree, there will be another war soon and then another...

But hey, I also have a peace plan, just like you! Until when should the RF army hold the occupied territories? Just leave and save all those lives you care so much about.

But who can tell if you are telling the truth, or if Russia is?

Western special services created almost all major terrorist groups — Russian official

https://tass.com/politics/1651911
Almost all current major terrorist groups have been created, supplied and financed by special services that implement the decisions of Western countries, Russian Security Council Secretary Nikolay Patrushev said at a BRICS meeting in South Africa.

"Almost all major contemporary terrorist groups have been created, supplied and financed by special services implementing the political decisions of the leadership of Western countries," he said at a meeting of high representatives in charge of security issues from Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa in Johannesburg, according to the Rossiyskaya Gazeta newspaper.

He said terrorism "as it now exists, is a direct tool to promote the influence of the US and its satellites."

According to Patrushev, Moscow regards joint counterterrorism efforts as one of the priority areas of cooperation within BRICS.

"We oppose the politicization of international anti-terrorist cooperation and the application of double standards in this area. We are convinced that the fight against terrorism must be based on universal norms and principles of international law," the official said.
...

cabron

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The Russia-Ukraine war may end very soon since Russia already hit their facilities, ammo storage, and ports. Russia and China just did a joint naval exercise near Japan, I think they are seeing the war happen in the Pacific soon.

This is where it gets really dangerous because there are already US military bases nearby. Japan doesn't have much firepower, they were demilitarized as well by the US a long time ago.

paxmao

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Quote from: paxmao on July 27, 2023, 07:52:05 PM

Quote from: paxmao on July 27, 2023, 07:52:05 PM

Inflation is linked to interest rates. Ruzzia keeps inflation low by having nearly double interest rates. Now, stuff more graphs there, but try to understand the basics of economy first.

Let's get this clear: do you consider the attack on grain storages in Ukraine a terrorist act? A simple yes or no will suffice. I offer you a similar direct answer to any (non personal) similar question in exchange.

RE scalations, most of your assertions are false. ATACAMS have more range, more payload and are more difficult to intercept. The stormshadows are very obviously hitting high value targets, and I mean nearly every day,... You should try to read something that is not the official propaganda. The F-35 with some of the longer range rockets do not even need to get near to the front...

RE grain production in the US... well, your graph basically proves my point. US is a grain exporter and will benefit from higher prices. It is irrelevant if Ruzzia exports more or less, the price is the price. Look, seriously, just read ANY book on economy. You need them all.

Now, it seems that you are trying to deny any and all the capabilities built during decades by US and other... it just does not fly (note the pun), those weapons are effective like hell. The US has the potential to support Ukraine up by a factor of 10. They just do not want to - for now. Putin is nearly out of escalations other than nuclear, which he would loose (not that anyone wins in that case).

Latest thing, he is now promoting conflicts in Niger and Congo. But worry not, those will be dealt with in due time, first things first.

Anyway, while you theorise, reality is making a check on all that. Ukraine is moving at a faster pace and liberating some interesting bits of territory in the Zapo front. A trust towards Tohmak has become veeeeery posible. There are also some unconfirmed data on the lack of effectiveness of the "Surovikin line" of defence - there are not enough troops to actually defend it.

Oh, BTW, you are still thinking that somehow Europe has heating problems? Have you not read anything in the last year? Europe simply buys the gas from US an Norway, the countries affected are those that cannot pay the price.

I lost your point, so interest rate in US is now 5,5% and in Russia 3% higher at 8,5% (RUB) (was 20% at one point). What's your point, that Russian economy will collapse any second now? China has become an "even more critical" economic partner for Russia, providing it with military equipment and helping the regime evade sanctions tied to the invasion of Ukraine, U.S. intelligence officials said in a report published Thursday. Totally unexpected, right? And look at Turkey, they're at 17,5% (TRY) going on few years at these high rates and they're not even at war.

Let's get this clear: do you consider the attack on grain storages in Ukraine a terrorist act?
This feels like a friend/foe, are you with/against us groupthink litmus test i.e. completely useless and devoid of reasoning. But nevertheless since you've asked nicely i'll comply. For whom Ukraine? NO.
Long answer: to objectify this, i'd frame this as country A attacking commodity for export in country B with no loss of life. Technically, strictly by definition, I guess that should be considered terrorism, but an attack on power/heating/water infrastructure is not (because that is always claimed to have military use). That's counterproductive and takes away from the real acts of terrorism. To me, terrorism is intentional, direct, or directly linked, loss or serious injury to civilian population without military justification. e.g. bomb in a subway, airliner targeted into a building, destroying food to cause hunger... But admittedly it's a spectrum, if anything I'd argue that inverse should be true, taking out a power grid in a city is more damaging to civilians than attacking some export storage.
...

So my question for you is at what point soldiers' lives should be considered and this carnage should stop being encouraged? Or are you in the "till the last Ukrainian until Crimea" camp?

Obviously the question is not if is terrorism from Ukraine, but from the RF. It is obvious that you are judging with a double scale (and assuming that there is no loss of life when attacking a silo... a long shot). It seem that the attack on the Ministry of defence is not terrorism at all by your (veeery peculiar definition).

Anyway, the Ruzzians are well past the border of terrorism since the beginning of the war, but you are going to deny and throw dirt on any proof, so I will just let the official institutions do their research and then let you deny.

You have change your view on the effectiveness of weapons... not useless after all... good, good, ... now you just to get familiarised with the differences between and we then can talk again. A million possible escalations are possible from the Ukrainian side, simply because the aid is very limited in all aspects. Just read the Ukrainian requests to US and see how they are fine with using more and better weapons that do exist.

To your question, which I have answered in many posts - the fight has to continue until a result that guarantees a future stable peace is reached. It is no use to surrender "to save lives" if the conditions for the next invasion are setup. As of now, if Putin gets his way to a significant degree, there will be another war soon and then another...

But hey, I also have a peace plan, just like you! Until when should the RF army hold the occupied territories? Just leave and save all those lives you care so much about.

DaRude

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Inflation is linked to interest rates. Ruzzia keeps inflation low by having nearly double interest rates. Now, stuff more graphs there, but try to understand the basics of economy first.

Let's get this clear: do you consider the attack on grain storages in Ukraine a terrorist act? A simple yes or no will suffice. I offer you a similar direct answer to any (non personal) similar question in exchange.

RE scalations, most of your assertions are false. ATACAMS have more range, more payload and are more difficult to intercept. The stormshadows are very obviously hitting high value targets, and I mean nearly every day,... You should try to read something that is not the official propaganda. The F-35 with some of the longer range rockets do not even need to get near to the front...

RE grain production in the US... well, your graph basically proves my point. US is a grain exporter and will benefit from higher prices. It is irrelevant if Ruzzia exports more or less, the price is the price. Look, seriously, just read ANY book on economy. You need them all.

Now, it seems that you are trying to deny any and all the capabilities built during decades by US and other... it just does not fly (note the pun), those weapons are effective like hell. The US has the potential to support Ukraine up by a factor of 10. They just do not want to - for now. Putin is nearly out of escalations other than nuclear, which he would loose (not that anyone wins in that case).

Latest thing, he is now promoting conflicts in Niger and Congo. But worry not, those will be dealt with in due time, first things first.

Anyway, while you theorise, reality is making a check on all that. Ukraine is moving at a faster pace and liberating some interesting bits of territory in the Zapo front. A trust towards Tohmak has become veeeeery posible. There are also some unconfirmed data on the lack of effectiveness of the "Surovikin line" of defence - there are not enough troops to actually defend it.

Oh, BTW, you are still thinking that somehow Europe has heating problems? Have you not read anything in the last year? Europe simply buys the gas from US an Norway, the countries affected are those that cannot pay the price.

I lost your point, so interest rate in US is now 5,5% and in Russia 3% higher at 8,5% (RUB) (was 20% at one point). What's your point, that Russian economy will collapse any second now? China has become an "even more critical" economic partner for Russia, providing it with military equipment and helping the regime evade sanctions tied to the invasion of Ukraine, U.S. intelligence officials said in a report published Thursday. Totally unexpected, right? And look at Turkey, they're at 17,5% (TRY) going on few years at these high rates and they're not even at war.

Let's get this clear: do you consider the attack on grain storages in Ukraine a terrorist act?
This feels like a friend/foe, are you with/against us groupthink litmus test i.e. completely useless and devoid of reasoning. But nevertheless since you've asked nicely i'll comply. For whom Ukraine? NO.
Long answer: to objectify this, i'd frame this as country A attacking commodity for export in country B with no loss of life. Technically, strictly by definition, I guess that should be considered terrorism, but an attack on power/heating/water infrastructure is not (because that is always claimed to have military use). That's counterproductive and takes away from the real acts of terrorism. To me, terrorism is intentional, direct, or directly linked, loss or serious injury to civilian population without military justification. e.g. bomb in a subway, airliner targeted into a building, destroying food to cause hunger... But admittedly it's a spectrum, if anything I'd argue that inverse should be true, taking out a power grid in a city is more damaging to civilians than attacking some export storage.

Exactly, UA already uses British storm shadow and France's SCALP that are already doing the exact same thing ATACMS would for anything that GMLRS might not be able to reach. But foreseeing that for PR purposes we will continue seeing this trend for every type of F16 missiles. And what longer range rockets are used on F-35 that cannot be used on F-16?

I don't understand how you can continue cheer for this stupid advance and keep raising expectations when they haven't even breached the first line of defense. Soldiers are literally being pushing onto mines, and are being forced to attack without any air defense, don't you think this is borderline suicidal? Do you really believe with all of the intel from US/NATO the "oh first we didn't expect them to have so many mines and now we forgot that RF has air force" is a valid justification? Time is already reporting straight up that Ukraine has too few soldiers left.

Quote from: https://time.com/6298695/ukraine-counteroffensive-plan-b-column/

Ukraine's Counteroffensive Needs a Plan B
America’s “Plan A” in Ukraine is on life support.
...
They posited that even if Ukraine ultimately proved incapable of driving Russian forces off all of Ukraine’s territory, the counteroffensive would give Kyiv significant leverage at the diplomatic table.
...
Some six weeks into the Ukrainian counteroffensive, things are not going as planned. Although damage estimates vary, Ukraine has lost significant numbers of men and weapons, while making negligible progress against formidable Russian defenses.

Despite vigorous recruiting and conscription efforts, Ukraine has too few soldiers to muster the three-to-one manpower advantage generally considered necessary for a successful offensive. Its supplies of artillery shells and anti-aircraft missiles, vital to battlefield success, are dwindling. As a result, Russia’s air force—which was sparingly used last year in the face of effective Ukrainian air defenses—is now operating more actively near the front lines, devastating Ukraine’s attacking forces.

Finger-pointing for this failure is already underway. Increasingly, Ukrainian officials openly blame the West for not providing enough armor, aircraft, artillery, missiles, and ammunition. Anonymous American officials blame the Ukrainians for not conducting Western-style combined arms operations to outmaneuver and outpace their plodding Russian opponents.
...
But even such an extensive transformation would still not resolve Ukraine’s critical gap in this war: air power. According to the Congressional Research Service, Ukraine’s air force has 132 aircrafts, compared to 1,391 in Russia’s. Providing Ukraine with a couple of dozen F-16 fighters, whose complex maintenance requirements make the aircraft ill-suited for conditions in Ukraine, will hardly bridge that gap. As Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Mark Milley, told Politico in May, “There are no magic weapons in war, F-16s are not, and neither is anything else.”
...
if coupled with a diplomatic approach that incentivizes Russia to end the fighting rather than prolong it to keep Ukraine out of NATO, it could well prompt Russia to aim to secure its still quite limited gains through a negotiated end to the war. It is time to try.

So my question for you is at what point soldiers' lives should be considered and this carnage should stop being encouraged? Or are you in the "till the last Ukrainian until Crimea" camp?

paxmao

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Quote from: paxmao on July 26, 2023, 04:37:43 AM

Inflation is linked to interest rates. Ruzzia keeps inflation low by having nearly double interest rates. Now, stuff more graphs there, but try to understand the basics of economy first.

Let's get this clear: do you consider the attack on grain storages in Ukraine a terrorist act? A simple yes or no will suffice. I offer you a similar direct answer to any (non personal) similar question in exchange.

RE scalations, most of your assertions are false. ATACAMS have more range, more payload and are more difficult to intercept. The stormshadows are very obviously hitting high value targets, and I mean nearly every day,... You should try to read something that is not the official propaganda. The F-35 with some of the longer range rockets do not even need to get near to the front...

RE grain production in the US... well, your graph basically proves my point. US is a grain exporter and will benefit from higher prices. It is irrelevant if Ruzzia exports more or less, the price is the price. Look, seriously, just read ANY book on economy. You need them all.

Now, it seems that you are trying to deny any and all the capabilities built during decades by US and other... it just does not fly (note the pun), those weapons are effective like hell. The US has the potential to support Ukraine up by a factor of 10. They just do not want to - for now. Putin is nearly out of escalations other than nuclear, which he would loose (not that anyone wins in that case).

Latest thing, he is now promoting conflicts in Niger and Congo. But worry not, those will be dealt with in due time, first things first.

Anyway, while you theorise, reality is making a check on all that. Ukraine is moving at a faster pace and liberating some interesting bits of territory in the Zapo front. A trust towards Tohmak has become veeeeery posible. There are also some unconfirmed data on the lack of effectiveness of the "Surovikin line" of defence - there are not enough troops to actually defend it.

Oh, BTW, you are still thinking that somehow Europe has heating problems? Have you not read anything in the last year? Europe simply buys the gas from US an Norway, the countries affected are those that cannot pay the price.

DaRude

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Quote from: paxmao on July 25, 2023, 04:10:55 AM

...
You are wrong in all your statements. See, you do not have to look for anything.

My own statement does not justify attacking non-critical infrastructure nor acts of terrorism (which would be veeeery easy to carry out by Ukraine if they wanted). While it might even be a false flag, the fact is that the Ruzzian Mod is 300 meters from there. My statement signifies that an attack on a legitimate target in Moscow may open the eyes of many to the sad reality: their government cannot even defend itself and this war is not something happening at 1000 clicks away.

If you deflect a drone it will land in another place. If you are in Moscow that "other place" is likely to be inhabited by humans. If the Ruzzians use a system that protects the Ministry by making drones fall in the vicinity means that they would rather protect the Ministry than other inhabited buildings in the surroundings.

And now that you understand why you are wrong and I am right, shall we talk about throwing missiles to grain silos as terror?

As an alternative I suggest talking about inflation in Ruzzia. Another interesting topic.

with such low effort arguments you've done a great job at discrediting yourself, at which point this just feels like a great waste of time on my part, so i guess you got me, good job on that front.

Your statements do not merit anything else.

...
Grain silos:
Objective facts - excess grain for export, China was to be the main consumer. Part of the larger end of the grain deal
Results - Financial and political pressure on the "west". Event removes revenue stream from UA, opens up markets for RF grain, excess UA grain would flood Poland & Romania undercutting local farmers and further raising social tensions there. Poland and Hungary threaten to cut Ukraine’s export route to the West
UA coverage - RF is starting new holodomor for...whole world? and only UA grain can save the children. Try to get as much coverage to stay in news headlines, bring attention to ~~yearly child deaths in Cuba as a consequence of blockade~~ starving children elsewhere in the world.
RF coverage - target was used as military infrastructure to create and launch sea drones that attacked bridge in Crimea

Facts - You argue that a drone hitting a commercial building near the Ministry is terror, but the attack on food storages is ok. Why would I need to make an effort to rebate that, you are doing great on your own.

The complaints of eastern European farmers were already there even during the grain deal, so is not a result of breaking it. The solution is simple: Ukrainian grain would only be for export, not for local markets. It is a mere regulatory issue.

Ruzzia is already a grain exporter. But let me ask you: If the grain from Ukraine to China is replaced with grain from Ruzzia... what happens to the price of grain inside Ruzzia? If you ask me, the RF citizens are going to pay extra and is not a luxury product, it is the most basic food. I hope they feel glorious about it.

A deal has two sides. It is not that Ruzzia is creating hunger, is that by not reaching an agreement grain prices will be higher. Everywhere, including those places in which the price will not be affordable. Casually, many of those countries are friendly to the Ruzzian cause... for now.

As for the economic effect in US, it will be positive, they produce grain like crazy and now they can sell it more expensive.

Regarding Europe, the cost of food is not really a concern. Production and demand are quite controlled.

RF inflation:
Objective facts - USD=90RUB Russia notched a victory in the fight for influence over global oil markets in recent days when the price of the country’s most coveted crude traded above a Western price cap imposed to starve Moscow of funds for the war in Ukraine.
Result - Financial pressure on RF.
UA coverage - RF will financially collapse any second now, keep raising support for war effort. Cost of RF imports will skyrocket
RF coverage - RF oil/gas exports are priced in USD but expenses state budget and military salaries are paid in RUB. So high exchange rate actually helps budget surplus. Food is local grown and denominated in RUB so no inflation, but iPhone imports will cost more.

Now what's more worrying to me is all the recent ruckus going on around Poland. Seems the "west" has exhausted current list of available escalations, so a potential next step appears to be Poland making a bilateral defense pact with Ukraine and sending in their troops to UA (entering the conflict on their own "outside" of NATO framework). This would compensate all of the lost manpower in UA, yet supposedly keep NATO out of direct confrontation. Seems like RF is prepping Belarus, nukes, and general mobilization as a hedge against such development.

Inflation:
Are you clueless about what inflation is? You just throw there some economic non-facts and then say I am not doing enough effort to rebate? Gee dude... you need to try to have some self-criticism.

This is not about coverage, this is about the interest rates (currently 8.5%, previously at 20%) that the RF has to keep so that they do not spiral into hyperinflation. The only person with a brain in the whole Ruzzian government is Nabiullina, but she can only do what she can. You know what is paying a mortgage nowadays at nearly 10%, that is more than double than 2 just two years ago?

That is inflation.

Escalations:

Oh my friend, the "available escalations" are endless... ATACMS, F-35s, more F-16s, more Abrahms, ... The only reason this is not happening is because the US is absolutely fine with Ruzzia fighting this war and self-demilitarising the Soviet arsenals without any US soldier killed. The game of proxies is so old.

I have said it over and over, there is a winner to this, but is not Ruzzia, is not Germany, is not Poland and is not Ukraine (may be in the future, not as of now).

And China too - cheap oil right when they are in a crisis.

I see, so it appears that reading comprehension is at issue here. Show me where i claim that "hitting a commercial building near the Ministry is terror, but the attack on food storages is ok" Huh

(hint: you won't find it!)

"The solution is simple: Ukrainian grain would only be for export, not for local markets. It is a mere regulatory issue"
Well, technically that's for EU to decide. With 5 weeks left till September, limits on heating and temperature inside the house, with pictures of elderly and lower class going to McDonald's to warm up, and food inflation at 16,41% do you trust bureaucrats not to touch all this almost free grain and just let it rot? The degree can be argued but it's clear to raise political tension, and easy points for any opposition.

"If the grain from Ukraine to China is replaced with grain from Ruzzia... what happens to the price of grain inside Ruzzia? If you ask me, the RF citizens are going to pay extra and is not a luxury product, it is the most basic food. I hope they feel glorious about it."
Russia is having a good harvest year so much that they're giving tens of thousands of tons of free grain away, sure there's nothing free and they're using soft power to get political influence but that's besides the point. There are price limits on basic foodstuff in Russia, so prices on vegemite will go up, but locally produced products will stay the same for population. There's only an opportunity cost, loss of potential additional income.

As for the economic effect in US, it will be positive, they produce grain like crazy and now they can sell it more expensive.
Can you at least put a bit more effort in your arguments outside of typical BS targeted at the uneducated masses?
Both sides need to feed their spheres of influence. Look at the scale/population of US and RF spheres and populations they need to at least feed so they don't flip sides. This is obviously not about US generating income from LatAm/Africa/Asia, US can always print more money, but they cant print food, and without cheap UA exports things will get more difficult. Straight from USDA Russian wheat exports are forecast to hit a record 45.0 million tons in 2022/23, up 36 percent from the prior year and 3.5 million tons above its previous record in 2017/18.

Check out jump in RF exports just in one year and compare it with total UA export

Are you clueless about what inflation is?
You, funny Grin

. Interest rates are not inflation. US average mortgage rates are at 7,34% even if RF is at 10% have they ever been at par with US and is the spread really that dramatic you make it out to be? You seem to be confusing inflation with currency devaluation/manipulation. Or rather, something tells me that you're well aware of this and just trying to mislead the masses, so instead let's try to educate them shall we?
Currency manipulation - by China or any other other country - is seen to flout global trading rules by conferring unfair competitive advantages. A country does so by artificially inflating or deflating its exchange rate. It may be designed to make exports more competitive, to avoid inflation or reduce capital inflows. as far as inflation yeah it's high Russian inflation above 4% target for first time since March, economy ministry says

Oh my friend, the "available escalations" are endless... ATACMS, F-35s, more F-16s, more Abrahms
ATACMS are mostly useless, UA is already using HIMARS with pods of 6 GMLRS missiles at a cost of $168k/each and range of 84km. That already puts Mariupol and almost everything to the sea of Azov as well as around 90% of all areas under RF control (outside Crimea) in rage. How much more will a single ~$1,5MM ATACMS missile in a pod get you? Only to harass Crimea, striking fear in RF population that completely forgot about the war and bathing with their kids on the beaches of Crimea during summer season, oh and perhaps a moral booster for UA propaganda looks we can ruin their summer vacations. Not even close to anything ground breaking.
Anyone who has followed this conflict at all, knows that the front lines are so over-saturated with mines, ATGMs and drones, that tanks are not real force multipliers anymore. Or have you already forgot about the "free the leopard" campaign? Diversion and reconnaissance groups having problems sneaking through, Abrahms with their jet engines could probably be spotted from space in IR.

Airspace is also saturated with SAMs from both sides, so much so that rockets get intercepted. Thinking that anyone will be able to dominate airspace and needs the extra functionality of F35s for some areal dogfights is delusional. F16s could be used to lob misses just like RF does now and that's about it. All previous major force multiplies have been neutralized from both sides, and that's not going to change, that why we see all of the trench warfare going on. Only thing that has a remote possibility of becoming a game changer are drones in huge capacities, scaled to a point of 1 drone per soldier. Such as Iran helping Russia build drone stockpile that is expected to be ‘orders of magnitude larger’ than previous arsenal, US says...US intelligence officials have warned that Russia is building a drone-manufacturing facility in country with Iran’s help that could have a significant impact on the war in Ukraine once it is completed. perhaps west is also working on this at such capacities undercover, or a jammer for each soldier? After all, we humans always find improved ways of killing each other.

Bottom line, winter is coming and we're in war of attrition. From the social, economical, political, and military fronts the weakest link on RF side looks to be economy which (with China) still appears resilient. From the west it's military, not the equipment but simpe manpower, which surprises absolutely no one. All other events are black swans/long shots.

be.open

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White Russian

Meanwhile, the second phase of the Ukrainian counter-offensive, announced yesterday, began with a crushing defeat on the Zaporizhia front near Rabotino. Ukraine threw its strategic reserves into organizing a breakthrough, and dozens of armored vehicles remained on fire on the battlefield.

BADecker

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Ukraine is like the woman who backed into the airplane propeller. Disaster! Ukraine never had a chance. Now they are buying Russian refined petroleum products just to be able to keep on fighting. How long will Russia put up with that? See https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/--5413836.

Read the whole article, below, through. There are a bunch of points about Ukraine that historically make her at least as despicable as anyone else.

Ukraine Complete Disaster – Neocons Lose Again?

https://www.theburningplatform.com/2023/07/25/ukraine-complete-disaster-neocons-lose-again/
The American Neocons are being confronted with the fact that there NEVER was any chance that Ukraine would defeat Russia and putting this high-heel questionable gender dancer in high heels in charge of war was in itself a war crime. There is absolutely no war Ukraine can win anything. This is why Zelensky has been so desperate o drag in NATO because he knows they cannot retake the Donbas no less defeat Russia. The American Neocons were hoping to weaken Russia so they could contrive some scheme to justify going in for the kill.

There are rumblings behind the curtain now that a peace deal has to be struck of Ukraine will collapse if their own troops do not rise up and assassinate Zelensky for his profiteering and slaughter of his own people. After all, numerous Roman generals found themselves in a position where they did not want to fight so they assassinated their leader. In the case of Maximinus I (235-238AD), his own men, humiliated by their defeat, now entered the tent of Maximinus and murdered him. To demonstrate their new loyalty to Rome, they cut off his head and sent it to Rome. This was no isolated incident. It became rather common for the troops when ordered to fight a wrong war, turned to assassinate their own general.

The fact that the Wall Street Journal on July 23rd wrote:

"Western military officials knew Kyiv didn't have all the training or weapons—from shells to warplanes—that it needed to dislodge Russian forces. But they hoped Ukrainian courage and resourcefulness would carry the day."

...

Zelensky’s dream of selling Ukraine to Blackrock is really disgusting. He has had no problem letter his country brun because the more that burns, the greater the rebuilding project. He has been bragging that this will be the biggest investment opportunity for Europe with no mention of how many Ukrainians must die for he dream. Many have compared him to Nero letting Rome burn so he could build his grand golden palace.
...

paxmao

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Quote from: paxmao on July 25, 2023, 04:10:55 AM

...
You are wrong in all your statements. See, you do not have to look for anything.

My own statement does not justify attacking non-critical infrastructure nor acts of terrorism (which would be veeeery easy to carry out by Ukraine if they wanted). While it might even be a false flag, the fact is that the Ruzzian Mod is 300 meters from there. My statement signifies that an attack on a legitimate target in Moscow may open the eyes of many to the sad reality: their government cannot even defend itself and this war is not something happening at 1000 clicks away.

If you deflect a drone it will land in another place. If you are in Moscow that "other place" is likely to be inhabited by humans. If the Ruzzians use a system that protects the Ministry by making drones fall in the vicinity means that they would rather protect the Ministry than other inhabited buildings in the surroundings.

And now that you understand why you are wrong and I am right, shall we talk about throwing missiles to grain silos as terror?

As an alternative I suggest talking about inflation in Ruzzia. Another interesting topic.

with such low effort arguments you've done a great job at discrediting yourself, at which point this just feels like a great waste of time on my part, so i guess you got me, good job on that front.

Your statements do not merit anything else.

...
Grain silos:
Objective facts - excess grain for export, China was to be the main consumer. Part of the larger end of the grain deal
Results - Financial and political pressure on the "west". Event removes revenue stream from UA, opens up markets for RF grain, excess UA grain would flood Poland & Romania undercutting local farmers and further raising social tensions there. Poland and Hungary threaten to cut Ukraine’s export route to the West
UA coverage - RF is starting new holodomor for...whole world? and only UA grain can save the children. Try to get as much coverage to stay in news headlines, bring attention to ~~yearly child deaths in Cuba as a consequence of blockade~~ starving children elsewhere in the world.
RF coverage - target was used as military infrastructure to create and launch sea drones that attacked bridge in Crimea

Facts - You argue that a drone hitting a commercial building near the Ministry is terror, but the attack on food storages is ok. Why would I need to make an effort to rebate that, you are doing great on your own.

The complaints of eastern European farmers were already there even during the grain deal, so is not a result of breaking it. The solution is simple: Ukrainian grain would only be for export, not for local markets. It is a mere regulatory issue.

Ruzzia is already a grain exporter. But let me ask you: If the grain from Ukraine to China is replaced with grain from Ruzzia... what happens to the price of grain inside Ruzzia? If you ask me, the RF citizens are going to pay extra and is not a luxury product, it is the most basic food. I hope they feel glorious about it.

A deal has two sides. It is not that Ruzzia is creating hunger, is that by not reaching an agreement grain prices will be higher. Everywhere, including those places in which the price will not be affordable. Casually, many of those countries are friendly to the Ruzzian cause... for now.

As for the economic effect in US, it will be positive, they produce grain like crazy and now they can sell it more expensive.

Regarding Europe, the cost of food is not really a concern. Production and demand are quite controlled.

Quote from: paxmao on July 25, 2023, 04:10:55 AM

RF inflation:
Objective facts - USD=90RUB Russia notched a victory in the fight for influence over global oil markets in recent days when the price of the country’s most coveted crude traded above a Western price cap imposed to starve Moscow of funds for the war in Ukraine.
Result - Financial pressure on RF.
UA coverage - RF will financially collapse any second now, keep raising support for war effort. Cost of RF imports will skyrocket
RF coverage - RF oil/gas exports are priced in USD but expenses state budget and military salaries are paid in RUB. So high exchange rate actually helps budget surplus. Food is local grown and denominated in RUB so no inflation, but iPhone imports will cost more.

Now what's more worrying to me is all the recent ruckus going on around Poland. Seems the "west" has exhausted current list of available escalations, so a potential next step appears to be Poland making a bilateral defense pact with Ukraine and sending in their troops to UA (entering the conflict on their own "outside" of NATO framework). This would compensate all of the lost manpower in UA, yet supposedly keep NATO out of direct confrontation. Seems like RF is prepping Belarus, nukes, and general mobilization as a hedge against such development.

Inflation:
Are you clueless about what inflation is? You just throw there some economic non-facts and then say I am not doing enough effort to rebate? Gee dude... you need to try to have some self-criticism.

This is not about coverage, this is about the interest rates (currently 8.5%, previously at 20%) that the RF has to keep so that they do not spiral into hyperinflation. The only person with a brain in the whole Ruzzian government is Nabiullina, but she can only do what she can. You know what is paying a mortgage nowadays at nearly 10%, that is more than double than 2 just two years ago?

That is inflation.

Escalations:

Oh my friend, the "available escalations" are endless... ATACMS, F-35s, more F-16s, more Abrahms, ... The only reason this is not happening is because the US is absolutely fine with Ruzzia fighting this war and self-demilitarising the Soviet arsenals without any US soldier killed. The game of proxies is so old.

I have said it over and over, there is a winner to this, but is not Ruzzia, is not Germany, is not Poland and is not Ukraine (may be in the future, not as of now).

And China too - cheap oil right when they are in a crisis.

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...
You are wrong in all your statements. See, you do not have to look for anything.

My own statement does not justify attacking non-critical infrastructure nor acts of terrorism (which would be veeeery easy to carry out by Ukraine if they wanted). While it might even be a false flag, the fact is that the Ruzzian Mod is 300 meters from there. My statement signifies that an attack on a legitimate target in Moscow may open the eyes of many to the sad reality: their government cannot even defend itself and this war is not something happening at 1000 clicks away.

If you deflect a drone it will land in another place. If you are in Moscow that "other place" is likely to be inhabited by humans. If the Ruzzians use a system that protects the Ministry by making drones fall in the vicinity means that they would rather protect the Ministry than other inhabited buildings in the surroundings.

And now that you understand why you are wrong and I am right, shall we talk about throwing missiles to grain silos as terror?

As an alternative I suggest talking about inflation in Ruzzia. Another interesting topic.

with such low effort arguments you've done a great job at discrediting yourself, at which point this just feels like a great waste of time on my part, so i guess you got me, good job on that front.

You do realize that UA deflected/jammed exponentially many more drones in Kyiv, right? where did all of those land at? Oops. And not even going into SAMs hit rates, misfires, blue on blue attacks, and UA attacking Poland.

Quote from: Socrates

Strong minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, weak minds discuss people.

You've totally discredited yourself with your low effort silly arguments, and proved total lack of objectivity and critical thinking (or were you always like this and for some reason i mistakenly held you in high regard?) so i'll let others engage you in never ending shit slinging propaganda. But to summarize.

Grain silos:
Objective facts - excess grain for export, China was to be the main consumer. Part of the larger end of the grain deal
Results - Financial and political pressure on the "west". Event removes revenue stream from UA, opens up markets for RF grain, excess UA grain would flood Poland & Romania undercutting local farmers and further raising social tensions there. Poland and Hungary threaten to cut Ukraine’s export route to the West
UA coverage - RF is starting new holodomor for...whole world? and only UA grain can save the children. Try to get as much coverage to stay in news headlines, bring attention to ~~yearly child deaths in Cuba as a consequence of blockade~~ starving children elsewhere in the world.
RF coverage - target was used as military infrastructure to create and launch sea drones that attacked bridge in Crimea

RF inflation:
Objective facts - USD=90RUB Russia notched a victory in the fight for influence over global oil markets in recent days when the price of the country’s most coveted crude traded above a Western price cap imposed to starve Moscow of funds for the war in Ukraine.
Result - Financial pressure on RF.
UA coverage - RF will financially collapse any second now, keep raising support for war effort. Cost of RF imports will skyrocket
RF coverage - RF oil/gas exports are priced in USD but expenses state budget and military salaries are paid in RUB. So high exchange rate actually helps budget surplus. Food is local grown and denominated in RUB so no inflation, but iPhone imports will cost more.

Now what's more worrying to me is all the recent ruckus going on around Poland. Seems the "west" has exhausted current list of available escalations, so a potential next step appears to be Poland making a bilateral defense pact with Ukraine and sending in their troops to UA (entering the conflict on their own "outside" of NATO framework). This would compensate all of the lost manpower in UA, yet supposedly keep NATO out of direct confrontation. Seems like RF is prepping Belarus, nukes, and general mobilization as a hedge against such development.

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Quote from: BADecker on July 23, 2023, 10:34:01 AM

Right. Everybody is tired of Putin's pussyfooting around. Let's get down to business, and wipe Ukraine from the face of the earth... which Russia could easily do.

What Ukraine, wasn't Ukraine conquered like one year ago when Kyiv fell?
Seriously cut the crap, next time you're going to tell me Warsaw and Lisbon haven't also been conquered and that the USD is still alive an kicking and humping the Russian ruble!
Gibberish!

Quote from: TwitchySeal on July 22, 2023, 02:42:19 AM

I wonder why that happened?

I wonder what has happened since 50 years ago and why everyone wants in NATO and now in the Warsaw pact, I also wonder why Vietnam is welcoming US carriers in its ports and not Chinese or Russian troops.Puzzling and boggling, how every single ally that is not a dictatorship failure of a shit nation that Russia had turned it's backed against them, even Kazakhstan or whatever its name is!

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Quote from: DaRude on July 24, 2023, 09:19:50 PM

Quote from: paxmao on July 24, 2023, 07:30:05 PM

Quote from: DaRude on July 24, 2023, 04:44:40 PM

Quote from: swogerino on July 24, 2023, 03:54:27 PM

Quote from: swogerino on July 24, 2023, 08:08:04 AM

So how does it feel for Russians to see two drones striking some buildings in the center of Moscow?I am sure they like it and Ukrainian counter offensive is going slowly but gradually having liberated another 16.4 km square in the south front last week.I don't understand the press statement of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Russia that name the attack as a terrorist attack by the Kyiv regime when in fact Russia is applying terror against Ukraine more than 1.5 year now,this is just plain Ukrainian response to terror and they should gain momentum and hit even further so Russian start thinking if the war is worth continuing or not as they are not getting anything.

You do realize that you made no attempt to argue that it wasn't terrorism from UA side, but instead just justified it as a response to another terrorism. Or do you not realize that terrorism is not mutually exclusive? My ministry of propaganda told me that the enemy blew up "our" kindergarten, so i was activated to blow up "their" kindergarten in response thus i'm not a terrorist logic? Huh

And if you didn't consider your audience to be complete imbeciles, when stating how many square kms were "liberated", for a full picture and objectivity wouldn't you also include how many square kilometers were also "lost" on other fronts?

It is not terrorism when you defend yourself and Ukraine has never mass killed civilians like Russian barbarians have done in Bucha,Irpin and Kharkiv.The Ukrainian army has never hit a maternity hospital killing innocent people,they have never bombed theater where it was clearly written "CHILDREN" in Russian language so what can justify these actions from Russian aggression and lately they even hit a Unesco heritage site in Ukraine,they commit a horrendous war crime every day.

As for the square kilometers,Ukraine has reclaimed more than 50% of territories that they lost in the early stages of invasion,they will liberate every single inch of territory until Ukraine wins.

Again, by definition terrorism is not dependent on whether you're defending yourself or not, or any further justifications. You really believe that an attempt to redefine terms helps your cause? Yes yes we all know, almost about to take Crimea back, right...i'll let you be.

You are wrong, as usual. The drone attacks in Moscow were heading to the Ministry of defence. The MOd is a legitimate target as it is considered a key infrastructure that directly support the war effort of the RF. The systems that the RF uses to prevent this deflects and redirects the drones by interfering with them so they crash somewhere else nearby (at 300 meters to be precise), so you are accusing the RF of terrorism against the RF. Now that I think of it, you are right.

Seriously speaking, there is little incentive for Ukraine to just hit some random building in Moscow. It just does not make sense - even if it was actually Ukraine (I have not seen official confirmation).

Also as usual, no comment on the attacks at Odessa, which actually were not directed to any military or war related infrastructure, so ... yeah, speaking of redefining terms.

And yet another gaffe - yes terrorism actually does depend if you are defending yourself: Example: The RF is not at war with the UK, but they send two guys to kill someone living in the UK. That is terrorism. If you are at war and that person is a military, is not - it is a legitimate target.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/07/23/europe/ukraine-russia-drone-attacks-hit-moscow-intl-hnk/index.html

Quote

One of the buildings seen damaged in footage geolocated by CNN houses the ministry’s military orchestra. It was not immediately clear if that had been caused by the drones.

The area also houses the Russian Foreign Military Intelligence, known as GRU, 26165 unit, which carries out cyber activities, according to multiple Western sources. It’s also in the vicinity of the Ministry of Defense’s National Defense Management Center.

Later Monday morning, Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov told journalists that Russian air defenses had worked successfully.

If you ask me, Russians have to understand that war is not that stuff that happens in the TV, but something that can actually go kaboom in you door. This may help.

WOW so much to unpack there that I don't even know where to start, are you being sarcastic here?, it's hard to believe that this is all just a coincidence.

First of all reread what i wrote and indicate which exact statement I am wrong about.

What you're doing here is bringing up an arguments that the actual mark was a valid military target but due to some reason it happened to land in some unintended location. OK that's the default justification for every side in every modern conflict (rarely someone admits to terrorism). Then you hilariously do a flip and attempt to claim, that because RF deflected a missile on to themselves they are terrorists? Following such logic all SAM missiles UA launched as well as all intersected incoming RF missiles (which all must land somewhere right?) were also terrorist attacks from Ukraine onto Ukraine? Going even further Ukraine sending a missle to Poland and killing two Poles was a Ukrainian terrorist attack on NATO too?

Then you appeal to logic making an argument that there is no incentive to hit random buildings, and how it doesn't make sense. (Sure, an argument that's also widely used by both sides).

And then you turn around, contradict yourself and pretty much give a clear example of an incentive and why such a terrorist attack makes perfect sense and may help your political objective "Russians have to understand that war is not that stuff that happens in the TV, but something that can actually go kaboom in you door. This may help."

Quote from: Encyclopedia Britannica https://www.britannica.com/topic/terrorism

terrorism, the calculated use of violence to create a general climate of fear in a population and thereby to bring about a particular political objective.

Bravo, honestly I don't think i could've come up with a better example and a more typical justification for terrorism if i tried. And then somewhere in between you keep arguing with Encyclopedia Britannica to the definition of terrorism and how it should depend on defending yourself. Roll Eyes

You are wrong in all your statements. See, you do not have to look for anything.

My own statement does not justify attacking non-critical infrastructure nor acts of terrorism (which would be veeeery easy to carry out by Ukraine if they wanted). While it might even be a false flag, the fact is that the Ruzzian Mod is 300 meters from there. My statement signifies that an attack on a legitimate target in Moscow may open the eyes of many to the sad reality: their government cannot even defend itself and this war is not something happening at 1000 clicks away.

If you deflect a drone it will land in another place. If you are in Moscow that "other place" is likely to be inhabited by humans. If the Ruzzians use a system that protects the Ministry by making drones fall in the vicinity means that they would rather protect the Ministry than other inhabited buildings in the surroundings.

And now that you understand why you are wrong and I am right, shall we talk about throwing missiles to grain silos as terror?

As an alternative I suggest talking about inflation in Ruzzia. Another interesting topic.

DaRude

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Activity: 2833

Merit: 1851

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Quote from: paxmao on July 24, 2023, 07:30:05 PM

Quote from: DaRude on July 24, 2023, 04:44:40 PM

Quote from: swogerino on July 24, 2023, 03:54:27 PM

Quote from: swogerino on July 24, 2023, 08:08:04 AM

So how does it feel for Russians to see two drones striking some buildings in the center of Moscow?I am sure they like it and Ukrainian counter offensive is going slowly but gradually having liberated another 16.4 km square in the south front last week.I don't understand the press statement of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Russia that name the attack as a terrorist attack by the Kyiv regime when in fact Russia is applying terror against Ukraine more than 1.5 year now,this is just plain Ukrainian response to terror and they should gain momentum and hit even further so Russian start thinking if the war is worth continuing or not as they are not getting anything.

You do realize that you made no attempt to argue that it wasn't terrorism from UA side, but instead just justified it as a response to another terrorism. Or do you not realize that terrorism is not mutually exclusive? My ministry of propaganda told me that the enemy blew up "our" kindergarten, so i was activated to blow up "their" kindergarten in response thus i'm not a terrorist logic? Huh

And if you didn't consider your audience to be complete imbeciles, when stating how many square kms were "liberated", for a full picture and objectivity wouldn't you also include how many square kilometers were also "lost" on other fronts?

It is not terrorism when you defend yourself and Ukraine has never mass killed civilians like Russian barbarians have done in Bucha,Irpin and Kharkiv.The Ukrainian army has never hit a maternity hospital killing innocent people,they have never bombed theater where it was clearly written "CHILDREN" in Russian language so what can justify these actions from Russian aggression and lately they even hit a Unesco heritage site in Ukraine,they commit a horrendous war crime every day.

As for the square kilometers,Ukraine has reclaimed more than 50% of territories that they lost in the early stages of invasion,they will liberate every single inch of territory until Ukraine wins.

Again, by definition terrorism is not dependent on whether you're defending yourself or not, or any further justifications. You really believe that an attempt to redefine terms helps your cause? Yes yes we all know, almost about to take Crimea back, right...i'll let you be.

You are wrong, as usual. The drone attacks in Moscow were heading to the Ministry of defence. The MOd is a legitimate target as it is considered a key infrastructure that directly support the war effort of the RF. The systems that the RF uses to prevent this deflects and redirects the drones by interfering with them so they crash somewhere else nearby (at 300 meters to be precise), so you are accusing the RF of terrorism against the RF. Now that I think of it, you are right.

Seriously speaking, there is little incentive for Ukraine to just hit some random building in Moscow. It just does not make sense - even if it was actually Ukraine (I have not seen official confirmation).

Also as usual, no comment on the attacks at Odessa, which actually were not directed to any military or war related infrastructure, so ... yeah, speaking of redefining terms.

And yet another gaffe - yes terrorism actually does depend if you are defending yourself: Example: The RF is not at war with the UK, but they send two guys to kill someone living in the UK. That is terrorism. If you are at war and that person is a military, is not - it is a legitimate target.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/07/23/europe/ukraine-russia-drone-attacks-hit-moscow-intl-hnk/index.html

Quote

One of the buildings seen damaged in footage geolocated by CNN houses the ministry’s military orchestra. It was not immediately clear if that had been caused by the drones.

The area also houses the Russian Foreign Military Intelligence, known as GRU, 26165 unit, which carries out cyber activities, according to multiple Western sources. It’s also in the vicinity of the Ministry of Defense’s National Defense Management Center.

Later Monday morning, Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov told journalists that Russian air defenses had worked successfully.

If you ask me, Russians have to understand that war is not that stuff that happens in the TV, but something that can actually go kaboom in you door. This may help.

WOW so much to unpack there that I don't even know where to start, are you being sarcastic here?, it's hard to believe that this is all just a coincidence.

First of all reread what i wrote and indicate which exact statement I am wrong about.

What you're doing here is bringing up an arguments that the actual mark was a valid military target but due to some reason it happened to land in some unintended location. OK that's the default justification for every side in every modern conflict (rarely someone admits to terrorism). Then you hilariously do a flip and attempt to claim, that because RF deflected a missile on to themselves they are terrorists? Following such logic all SAM missiles UA launched as well as all intersected incoming RF missiles (which all must land somewhere right?) were also terrorist attacks from Ukraine onto Ukraine? Going even further Ukraine sending a missle to Poland and killing two Poles was a Ukrainian terrorist attack on NATO too?

Then you appeal to logic making an argument that there is no incentive to hit random buildings, and how it doesn't make sense. (Sure, an argument that's also widely used by both sides).

And then you turn around, contradict yourself and pretty much give a clear example of an incentive and why such a terrorist attack makes perfect sense and may help your political objective "Russians have to understand that war is not that stuff that happens in the TV, but something that can actually go kaboom in you door. This may help."

Quote from: Encyclopedia Britannica https://www.britannica.com/topic/terrorism

terrorism, the calculated use of violence to create a general climate of fear in a population and thereby to bring about a particular political objective.

Bravo, honestly I don't think i could've come up with a better example and a more typical justification for terrorism if i tried. And then somewhere in between you keep arguing with Encyclopedia Britannica to the definition of terrorism and how it should depend on defending yourself. Roll Eyes

BADecker

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^^^ The Russian people will become scared at first. Then they will become angry, and unite behind their government when the time comes to shut Ukraine completely down.

Cool

paxmao

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Quote from: DaRude on July 24, 2023, 04:44:40 PM

Quote from: swogerino on July 24, 2023, 03:54:27 PM

Quote from: swogerino on July 24, 2023, 08:08:04 AM

So how does it feel for Russians to see two drones striking some buildings in the center of Moscow?I am sure they like it and Ukrainian counter offensive is going slowly but gradually having liberated another 16.4 km square in the south front last week.I don't understand the press statement of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Russia that name the attack as a terrorist attack by the Kyiv regime when in fact Russia is applying terror against Ukraine more than 1.5 year now,this is just plain Ukrainian response to terror and they should gain momentum and hit even further so Russian start thinking if the war is worth continuing or not as they are not getting anything.

You do realize that you made no attempt to argue that it wasn't terrorism from UA side, but instead just justified it as a response to another terrorism. Or do you not realize that terrorism is not mutually exclusive? My ministry of propaganda told me that the enemy blew up "our" kindergarten, so i was activated to blow up "their" kindergarten in response thus i'm not a terrorist logic? Huh

And if you didn't consider your audience to be complete imbeciles, when stating how many square kms were "liberated", for a full picture and objectivity wouldn't you also include how many square kilometers were also "lost" on other fronts?

It is not terrorism when you defend yourself and Ukraine has never mass killed civilians like Russian barbarians have done in Bucha,Irpin and Kharkiv.The Ukrainian army has never hit a maternity hospital killing innocent people,they have never bombed theater where it was clearly written "CHILDREN" in Russian language so what can justify these actions from Russian aggression and lately they even hit a Unesco heritage site in Ukraine,they commit a horrendous war crime every day.

As for the square kilometers,Ukraine has reclaimed more than 50% of territories that they lost in the early stages of invasion,they will liberate every single inch of territory until Ukraine wins.

Again, by definition terrorism is not dependent on whether you're defending yourself or not, or any further justifications. You really believe that an attempt to redefine terms helps your cause? Yes yes we all know, almost about to take Crimea back, right...i'll let you be.

You are wrong, as usual. The drone attacks in Moscow were heading to the Ministry of defence. The MOd is a legitimate target as it is considered a key infrastructure that directly support the war effort of the RF. The systems that the RF uses to prevent this deflects and redirects the drones by interfering with them so they crash somewhere else nearby (at 300 meters to be precise), so you are accusing the RF of terrorism against the RF. Now that I think of it, you are right.

Seriously speaking, there is little incentive for Ukraine to just hit some random building in Moscow. It just does not make sense - even if it was actually Ukraine (I have not seen official confirmation).

Also as usual, no comment on the attacks at Odessa, which actually were not directed to any military or war related infrastructure, so ... yeah, speaking of redefining terms.

And yet another gaffe - yes terrorism actually does depend if you are defending yourself: Example: The RF is not at war with the UK, but they send two guys to kill someone living in the UK. That is terrorism. If you are at war and that person is a military, is not - it is a legitimate target.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/07/23/europe/ukraine-russia-drone-attacks-hit-moscow-intl-hnk/index.html

Quote

One of the buildings seen damaged in footage geolocated by CNN houses the ministry’s military orchestra. It was not immediately clear if that had been caused by the drones.

The area also houses the Russian Foreign Military Intelligence, known as GRU, 26165 unit, which carries out cyber activities, according to multiple Western sources. It’s also in the vicinity of the Ministry of Defense’s National Defense Management Center.

Later Monday morning, Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov told journalists that Russian air defenses had worked successfully.

If you ask me, Russians have to understand that war is not that stuff that happens in the TV, but something that can actually go kaboom in you door. This may help.

DaRude

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Quote from: swogerino on July 24, 2023, 03:54:27 PM

Quote from: swogerino on July 24, 2023, 08:08:04 AM

So how does it feel for Russians to see two drones striking some buildings in the center of Moscow?I am sure they like it and Ukrainian counter offensive is going slowly but gradually having liberated another 16.4 km square in the south front last week.I don't understand the press statement of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Russia that name the attack as a terrorist attack by the Kyiv regime when in fact Russia is applying terror against Ukraine more than 1.5 year now,this is just plain Ukrainian response to terror and they should gain momentum and hit even further so Russian start thinking if the war is worth continuing or not as they are not getting anything.

You do realize that you made no attempt to argue that it wasn't terrorism from UA side, but instead just justified it as a response to another terrorism. Or do you not realize that terrorism is not mutually exclusive? My ministry of propaganda told me that the enemy blew up "our" kindergarten, so i was activated to blow up "their" kindergarten in response thus i'm not a terrorist logic? Huh

And if you didn't consider your audience to be complete imbeciles, when stating how many square kms were "liberated", for a full picture and objectivity wouldn't you also include how many square kilometers were also "lost" on other fronts?

It is not terrorism when you defend yourself and Ukraine has never mass killed civilians like Russian barbarians have done in Bucha,Irpin and Kharkiv.The Ukrainian army has never hit a maternity hospital killing innocent people,they have never bombed theater where it was clearly written "CHILDREN" in Russian language so what can justify these actions from Russian aggression and lately they even hit a Unesco heritage site in Ukraine,they commit a horrendous war crime every day.

As for the square kilometers,Ukraine has reclaimed more than 50% of territories that they lost in the early stages of invasion,they will liberate every single inch of territory until Ukraine wins.

Again, by definition terrorism is not dependent on whether you're defending yourself or not, or any further justifications. You really believe that an attempt to redefine terms helps your cause? Yes yes we all know, almost about to take Crimea back, right...i'll let you be.

swogerino

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Quote from: swogerino on July 24, 2023, 08:08:04 AM

So how does it feel for Russians to see two drones striking some buildings in the center of Moscow?I am sure they like it and Ukrainian counter offensive is going slowly but gradually having liberated another 16.4 km square in the south front last week.I don't understand the press statement of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Russia that name the attack as a terrorist attack by the Kyiv regime when in fact Russia is applying terror against Ukraine more than 1.5 year now,this is just plain Ukrainian response to terror and they should gain momentum and hit even further so Russian start thinking if the war is worth continuing or not as they are not getting anything.

You do realize that you made no attempt to argue that it wasn't terrorism from UA side, but instead just justified it as a response to another terrorism. Or do you not realize that terrorism is not mutually exclusive? My ministry of propaganda told me that the enemy blew up "our" kindergarten, so i was activated to blow up "their" kindergarten in response thus i'm not a terrorist logic? Huh

And if you didn't consider your audience to be complete imbeciles, when stating how many square kms were "liberated", for a full picture and objectivity wouldn't you also include how many square kilometers were also "lost" on other fronts?

It is not terrorism when you defend yourself and Ukraine has never mass killed civilians like Russian barbarians have done in Bucha,Irpin and Kharkiv.The Ukrainian army has never hit a maternity hospital killing innocent people,they have never bombed theater where it was clearly written "CHILDREN" in Russian language so what can justify these actions from Russian aggression and lately they even hit a Unesco heritage site in Ukraine,they commit a horrendous war crime every day.

As for the square kilometers,Ukraine has reclaimed more than 50% of territories that they lost in the early stages of invasion,they will liberate every single inch of territory until Ukraine wins.

DaRude

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Quote from: paxmao on July 23, 2023, 03:27:07 PM

Quote from: TwitchySeal on July 21, 2023, 06:24:39 PM

Quote from: OgNasty on July 20, 2023, 11:00:17 AM

It seems like every morning I wake up and read more terrible news about this war. Today it’s Ukraine’s ports being bombed. There are videos surfacing of captured Ukrainian troops saying they were threatened with jail if they didn’t fight. I don’t know how much longer we’re expected to pay for this horrible proxy war, but I for one don’t think Ukrainians should be forced to fight in it or face jail.

I think you should stop comsuming so much Russia propaganda if you're going to keep falling for it.

@OgNasty, if you do not like "paying for this war" (I wonder if you have noticed that many "pay" with their lives)... if you do not like paying this I say, just figure out how much would you need to pay if going back to the Cold War. That is expensive, and much more since you have a much bigger China.

US, Europe an Russia have had the dividend of peace, but you should not take that for granted if RF "wins" or looks to "win".

Quote

What Is a Peace Dividend?
A peace dividend is an economic boost a country will get from a peace that follows a war. In theory, at that time the government can afford to reduce defense spending and reallocate the money to domestic policy priorities.

This assumes that the money recouped from defense spending is generally used for the good of society and human or sustainable development; projects that involve new housing, education, and healthcare, for example.

Like you I'm all for suppressing Chinese commie regime, but i have questions on the strategy. We're talking about #2 (possibly soon to become #1) economy in the world, in your cost/benefit analysis how many Ukrainians should be thrown against Russians that outnumber them by 100.000.000 in the world’s most mined country without any air support, with the strategy of just hoping Ukrainian courage and resourcefulness would carry the day? Until Nuland's freedom cookies in 2014 Russia wasn't aligned with China at all, who do we hold accountable for such epic failure if while trying to get Ukraine under "west's sphere of influence" we still end up going into cold war with China, only now having pushed Russia on their side? And this whole strategy of defeating Russians in Ukraine first and then coming after Chinese relies on China being idiots and not seeing this coming right? How will all of this look in the history books 50yrs from now?

BADecker

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