Topic: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] - page 212. (Read 73721 times)

The USSR doesn't even exist. How is anybody going to fulfill it these days except by new agreement? So, why even bring it up?

Apples and cucumbers, my friend. Next time try some reading maybe? If you can't read in English, here is the original:

https://www.hist.msu.ru/ER/Etext/cnst1977.htm#iii

Is there any wording in Article 72 that allows a foreign country to take over a country by coups, just so the foreign country can use the country they took over just to conquer another country?

There is no clear understanding of what the people of Ukraine think. But there is clear understanding that their government was taken over by one or more US coups.

Kinds messes with the meaning and intent of Article 72, right?

Seems fake. USSR constitution allowed secession and did not specify any requirements (like a referendum). So technically member states could secede in any manner lawful in said states.


That's it. That's the whole article on the subject. It was predicated on the obvious (at the time) fact that no one in their right mind would attempt to coerce any of the republics to secede and the article was just for show, not unlike human rights guarantees and other parts of the constitution.

AFAIK Yugoslavia had something similar.

Russia used suicide drones in the last Kiev attack.

If you are talking about pushing the button that launches the nuke missiles when Putin orders it, do you really think every soldier in the nuke department will be against Putin? They are soldiers, and they think they are saving Russia from US nukes by pushing the button. They will push the launch buttons, or their commanding officers will.

Death to European economies is being countered as we speak. The EU governments are using black markets to get what Russia is selling. That's why the US blew up the pipelines for gas. Some of the EU nations are going back to coal and atomic energy. It will take a while, but the EU will save itself even without Russia. But Russian products are easier, so the EU might turn against the US.

The point is this. The turmoil in all this thinking is weakening the US dollar control worldwide. Maybe the Elite of the world want that to happen, or maybe they don't. But they will figure out other methods to remain elite, if the US dollar fails, or if the BRICS new money comes into being, or whatever money.

Of course, the threat of a nuclear conflict should not be underestimated, but I do not think that there are suicide bombers in the Kremlin or the Pentagon who are ready to destroy themselves and the whole world in a fiery hell. And even if there are such rabid psychopaths in the highest positions, they are more likely to be neutralized by people from their environment who want to live. However, while European leaders are now methodically killing the economies of their states and escalating the conflict more and more at the instigation of the USA, the confidence that a global war between East and West can be avoided is fading before our eyes.

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paxmao, when you describe the concept of "legal annexation", what relevant international legal documents did you follow so that I could also get acquainted with them?

In the course of your comment, I had a few questions. If you don't mind, please answer them. I have put my questions in brackets in your quote.


According to the definition of "annexations" which I found, they are illegal.

Links:
http://www.anamnesis.info/node/624
https://opil.ouplaw.com/view/10.1093/law:epil/9780199231690/law-9780199231690-e1376

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Regarding referendums, there is an interesting post with some historical data confirming that the countries of the so-called collective West (led by the US and UK) are ready to recognize or not recognize the results of referendums, only when they get benefits from it.


Source in Russian

* Updated quote from Encyclopedia of Public International Law on Annexation

If the US and Nato happen to be strong enough, they will overcome the Russian ground military in Ukraine and elsewhere. There will be one thing that Russia will have left to do. Hopefully the Nato nations will be smart enough to stop the US before it's too late.


Russia warns WWIII is all but GUARANTEED if Ukraine’s Western allies continue to meddle in ongoing conflict

Somehow I should not be surprised that you ask, yet I am.

Legal annexation could potentially be if, after a long period of peace, a referendum with all guarantees, time to put forward arguments against and in favour and abundant international observers is held among the inhabitants of a region a a majority decides that they want to join a different state.

It is much better understood if one thinks of a referendum of independence of which there are a few cases.

Just like Ukraine doesn't control Kiev. If it did, the two Russian strikes a week apart a week ago wouldn't have caused the blackouts over half of Ukraine. And that was before the Belarus and Russian militaries started congregating at the border as they have been.

Showdown in Russia's Kherson Region

Putin today announced about martial law in occupied regions of Ukraine - Donbas, Luhansk, Kherson and Zaporizhia.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/10/19/putin-declares-martial-law-in-annexed-regions-of-ukraine
But how you can declare martial law there when it's aready been declared by Ukraine on 24th February?
And does it means that Russians will be allowed to call it war, or it's still "special military operation"?
Actually, none of annexed regions isn't fully controlled by Russia. Like Zaporizhia Oblast, they don't have control of capital of region - Zaporizhia city. Even Luhansk oblast isn't fully controlled by them, few villages is controlled by Ukraine.
And Russia aren't silent about Ukraine's counteroffensive. Offcourse, they won't tell what's really happening, they are using excuses like regrouping of troops.
You can follow realtime information in front on maps like https://www.deepstatemap.live/ or https://liveuamap.com/
They also announced about evacuation from Kherson to left bank of Dniepr river:
https://www.dw.com/en/russia-ukraine-updates-moscow-begins-evacuation-from-kherson/a-63484112
No panic, keep calm, like they like to say.

There are opinions that the removal of Yanukovych from the post of Ukrainian president in February 2014 was unconstitutional.

Source: HuffPost

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What is legal annexation?

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Curious prediction from George Soros about NATO and manpower from Eastern Europe

Source: georgesoros.com

The illegal annexation has been so successful that Adolf Putin has signed a decree to install martial law in several RF oblasts. The Orc army is so successful that a number of oblasts that have border with the illegally occupied territories have now restrictions to travel, movement an massive control.

One would think that Adolf Putin did not take much of large bite, but it seems that even that little illegally taken territory is more than he can hope to defend.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/10/19/putin-martial-law-annexed-ukraine-regions/

Or maybe this is just for consumption.. sure.

There isn't really much disagreement as to which territories are under Ukrainian or Russian control. See https://liveuamap.com for example.

Ukraine did take large parts of territory back. Also Russia never had control of some of the territories it claims to have annexed. Russian side wasn't really silent about it, although it used euphemisms - e.g. "regrouping" instead of calling it a loss, or a retreat.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/h0w38GYbjgCj/

Could anyone still be surprise when the next thing the NaZiocons do to the civilian population in Donesk is chemical or biological?  It was a good move on population's new President's part to strongly suggest to at least get the kids to somewhere a little more safe.  Same with Kherson.

Something very bad has happened to the minds of those who have any power over the decision making processes driving 'Kiev'.  A giant abscess which has developed in earnest since the coup 2014.  The sooner it gets lanced, the better for everyone.

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BTW, the Israeli folks did another piggy cartoon.  Not as good as the last one, but worth the 30 seconds to watch:  https://www.bitchute.com/video/I8jjDScCS1xA/

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I'm not especially 'from the Russian side', but I'll take a crack at an answer.  Whoever made the bolded assertion is a desperate liar.  Defense lines were set up at the border of said regions and are largely holding.  Bakhmud is part of 'the Donbas' and is being taken by the Russians for the first time (and Bakhmud is a stepping-stone to finally stopping pedal anti-personnel mines, willy-pete, etc, from being fired from Western hardware onto civilian populations in Donesk.)

The Ukrainians did win back some territory North of Kherson on the West of the Dnieper river.  This has turned into a killing field where a LOT of quasi-Ukrainian personnel and material met their ends. 10,000 assorted personnel some say.  Classic 'Mongolian defense' to guide the fight to times/locations where Russian techniques are more effective is my read.  I will say that the Ukrainians actually are pretty good in the woods...and it remains to be seen how much so in the ice.

After Putin succeeded in annexing Ukrainian regions and holding a referendum in them, there are reports in the pro-Ukrainian media saying that the Ukrainian army succeeded in retaking large parts of these regions. This was accompanied by silence from the Russian side to comment on the matter.
Is it possible that the news is true or is it only for media consumption as the two parties are accustomed to doing?

The recent events showed a shift in the course of the war, and it seems that what Russia called the military operation to protect minorities in Ukraine, became one of its most important goals to bring down the political regime in Ukraine.

You've got it backwards.  Russia attacked Ukraine, then NATO expanded.  

Yanukovich fled along with some members of his government. Rada passed a law declaring him unable to fulfill his duties and set a date to elect his replacement.

Impeachment is essentially a trial for a crime. Yanik would have been eligible for this process if he didn't run away. He could also veto the law if he didn't run away. He basically resigned by running away and abdicating his duties.

There are similar processes in other countries, whether explicitly in the law or implicitly via other tools (e.g. the ability of the legislative branch to set election dates). For example in the US there is an impeachment process and there is a separate process in the 25th amendment to remove an incapacitated president.

I'm sure you know all this, but if the story about Ukrainians being cookie addicts who elected a new Rada years before the 2014 events to orchestrate a cookie coup makes you feel better - carry on

Realpolitik maybe something "new" for you. It is not for me. Now, you have to move on from the XIX century, go past the Menshevik revolution, turn a bit for the existentialism and, by the end of the trail you will find that things are not quite as they used to be with Bismarck and that people in the internet era have better access to the world and can do something about their destinies, even if it takes to fight a Dictator.

Your points would be perfectly valid if made on a forum from around X B.C. to XIX A.C. Now you need an update of your firmware to "history 21.1" operating system.


Following you argument, who in their right would try to stop NATO on a battlefield. When you get to war like this is because you have already failed in using soft power.
 

Who would think that NATO expansion would provoke Russia

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A--57cFU5zM

Well it didn't get worse after Yanukovych fled to Russia before being impeached and charged for treason, corruption, etc.

And why do you keep bringing up cookies?  Is that really the best thing you can come up with?  The US ambassador handed out cookies to protestors?  

Ukraine wants to join NATO.
NATO won't let Ukraine in as long as Putin Puppets are in power.
Obviously NATO countries will support protests against Putin puppets and be happy to see them removed from power.  Ukraine benefits, NATO benefits. 

It's really that simple.