Topic: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] - page 210. (Read 73721 times)

Wow! Almost can't believe that Dems are turning around to look for a peaceful outcome to the war.


30 House Dems Urge Dramatic Shift In Biden's Ukraine Policy: 'Get Serious About Diplomacy Or Risk Nuclear Miscalculation'

They were not willing to use it because they wanted to take a country just by walking in. Does that solve to you the why? Now they are ok with destroying anything they cannot take, and even for that it seems they somehow are not achieving exceptional results.

Shock and awe was to a scale 20 times bigger than anything the RF could field even before the start of the war, when they still had some of the better weapons platforms operative and in, to a point, in enough quantity. US employed proper cruise missiles (504) and around 1200  proper warplane sorties. It was delivered in a very short period of time and against a country that did not have proper air defences to compete with US.

But even after such a concentrated attack, the war ended up in cleaning Fallujah and Saadr City house by house, street by street and never being able to pacify Irak. Is that how good looks like to you?


I guess you cannot recruit a tank by force, like the slave orcs being sent to the front under threat.

In your haste to make shit up you may have overdone it a little bit. Ukraine claims to have destroyed or captured ~2500 (Oryx confirmed ~1400).

Russia has been taking tanks from Lukashenko and also bringing rusty "unpickled" T62s to the war zone - I doubt they'd do that if they didn't have severe shortages.

Its not useless, as UK/US "Shock and awe" proved in Iraq...its just that Russia was for some reason reluctant to use it at start


So now that Ukraine destroyed more than 4000 out of those 3000, there are no tanks on Russian side of battlefield?

Russian military power is a mirage. Their last major victory was against nazi Germany (thus the bizarre fixation on nazis even to this day) 80 years ago but even that comes with some caveats, such as lend-lease, second front, and the amount of cannon fodder Stalin used up.

Since then they failed in Afghanistan, barely defeated Chechnia (a nation of ~1.5 million) by bombing it into rubble, and incited some smaller conflicts (Moldova, Georgia, Ukraine pre 2022). They haven't been able to create any substantially new weapons and can barely maintain old soviet equipment. Corruption in all levels of Russian government, including military, is legendary.

Here is an interesting analysis on how their claims differ from reality: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHhgVrKJJoA
tl;dr: claimed to have 10+ thousand tanks, may have actually had 3000 potentially usable ones before the start of the war.

IIRC, the Ukroids have claimed to be winning stunningly since the very first day and provided (video game footage) evidence to 'prove' it.  Yet 20% of what they were claiming was 'their' country is gone-gone.  So, nothing new about their claims of success.

In order to win the upcoming referendum in Kharkiv the Ukroid secret police ZioNazis would have to blindfold and execute probably 80% of the population (assuming those who were imported from the Western part of the country were excluded from voting.)  Good luck with that.

As for 'Kherson', looks to me as though the Ruskies picked the field of battle and time of year of their choice (Northern Kherson West of the river) and, judging from the Ukroid losses, it was a good choice.  Russia (and the U.S.) seems to be playing these retarded Ukroids like a fiddle.  How on earth anyone could still be willingly offering up their lives in a sacrifice for Zelenski and the rest of the State Dept Jews Talmudo-Kabbalah-Satanists is beyond me, but there it is.  There just has to be some sort of weird mind control going on over there, and if they were running that many biological weapons labs it seems quite possible that other 'developments' were underway as well.

  https://www.bitchute.com/video/pZ9we6XVdmCi/

As for evacuating civilians from Kherson city, yes that is happening.  It's the responsible thing to do, and of course the Ukroids took the opportunity to try to kill as many of the civies as possible with long range Western supplied weapons.  Who would expect anything else after what's been witnessed to date?  And who would doubt that they'd do a dirty-bomb nuke false flag if there is any substance to that rumour?  Probably between zero and zero thinking observers.

Not everyone is able to analyze events at the same cognitive level. You look very smart my friend
This is an attempt on my part to read the events as they reach me through local media. I personally do not support the Russian war in Ukraine and consider it a barbaric aggression.

It is clear to me from your opinion that Russia is playing the humanitarian crisis card in what appears to be the most extreme solutions it has, but this is also surprising given the size of the military arsenal it possesses compared to Ukraine. Even on a strategic level, the Russian army has experience in fighting wars, whether on its territory or abroad. Is it really possible that it fails to invade a country that does not have the same experience or tools?

Probably this bald man is already storming Soledar as part of a penal company.
Nice try. The good old Buk-1M has a radius of destruction of a low-flying target up to 20 km and a probability of hitting 0.6, Ukraine simply does not have so many Buks to reliably close all possible directions of attack by drones. In principle, even the good old Shilka has a non-zero chance of success in order to shoot down a kamikaze drone. But even super-modern air defense systems cannot provide 100% reliability of defeat in the event of a night attack by a group of kamikaze drones.

Attempts to shoot down Geran-2 from an aircraft have already led to the loss of at least one MiG-29 of the Ukrainian Air Force. The Stinger MANPADS guidance system does not see Geran-2 due to the cold air-cooled engine. Any small-sized low-flying target is a deliberately difficult target for air defense. Don't talk to me about the 80% downed drones when there are rolling blackouts all over Ukraine.

Reading about Iran - I read it online that Russia is purchasing new kind of Drones from Iran.
That is called Kamakazi drone. And they are making a lot of damage to Ukraine

Meanwhile it seems that Russia is testing new type of kamikaze fighter jets. Just in one week, it's already second time when they crash into residential building:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tql2sdctGFU

C'mon, even advisor of Russian Defense Ministry said that these drones are made in Iran, but they can't talk about it because they offcially don't recognize that they're made in Iran:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZsrQE9fIjE

And somehow they managed to shoot it down with good old Buk 1M:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9LvhqlO2Rs
If these 80% would be just wishful thinking, consquences would be much worse.

We both seem to be repeating ourselves. I think we will soon see Geran-3 kamikaze drones in action, with the same air-cooled engine (Chinese or Iranian clone of the German Limbach L550E engine for ultralight aircraft), but with a silencer and therefore not so loud. This will make the task of detecting the drone even more difficult and increase its effectiveness. We'll see.
Here you are wishful thinking. These drones are extremely difficult targets for an air defense system for a number of reasons (they fly at low altitude, their body is radio-transparent, their fuel tanks are reinforced, the air-cooled engine is cold). Plus, it has a contact-type detonator, that is, even if the drone was shot down, it will still explode when it falls. And perhaps the damage from a downed drone will be even greater than if it is not touched.

Do you still think that organizing a terrorist attack on the Crimean bridge was a good idea? I hope the income from the sale of postage stamps will help Ukraine to spend the winter without electricity, heat and light.

They're hitting ~80% of those drones, which is quite good for "non-existent" air defense.

Russian air force proper doesn't ever try to enter Ukrainian airspace anymore, choosing to launch low-accuracy missiles from Belarus or deep inside Russian territory, which I think tells us something different than you assumed about the effectiveness of Ukrainian air defense.


Ukrainian soldiers training abroad seems like a major advantage over freshly mobilized Russian forces barely training if at all. Even if you believe Russian military training is on par with British, that's a wash at best.


And Ukrainians are shelling actual military targets like ammunition depots, supply routes, as opposed to Russians trying to hit civilian infrastructure and cause a humanitarian crisis. Again, seems like a significant military advantage for Ukrainians.

Not sure why you're still trying to twist this into some major media conspiracy. There is clearly a shift of momentum compared to the early months of the war and Ukrainians have been gaining ground for the last 2-3 months. Even Russian side admits losing Kharkov region and retreating from Kherson. Are the Russians also in on the pro-Ukrainian conspiracy?

Sure, that is why the SUs and MIG are all over Ukraine supporting the ground forces -  Except for the fact that they are absolutely absent since day 0. RF air superiority, which was taken for granted even by Ukraine allies has proven to be non-existant. It is just another of the myths about the RF army that have been vanished after this botched aggression that has benefited only the US.

Russia is using drones and missiles, many of which are intercepted and many of which are inaccurate to the point of being useless because they cannot risk planes and pilots to missions in a relatively well defended sky. Trying to win a war by cutting civilians from water, electricity, hospitals and schools is useless.

I don't know where they were manufactured.  

How do you know they were manufactured in Russia?  Or are you just making this claim because you think it will impress others with Russias capabilities?  That's what it seems like to me at this point.

And because Ukraine is being supported by the US and Nato, the Russian pressure is really against the US and Nato.

At the same time, it is destroying the economy of the people of the US and Nato nations.

When I read the news that the Ukrainian army is unable to repel the attacks of the drones that Russia acquired from Iran, it becomes clear to me that the Ukrainian surface-to-air defenses are very weak or non-existent at all.
The same thing when I read the news that Britain is training the Ukrainian forces on its soil before redeploying them to the battlefield, it becomes clear to me that this army is inexperienced in wars and it is hard to believe that it wins successive rounds as the loyal media wants to portray us.

Russia is putting pressure on Ukraine from several sides, not only militarily. The targeting of vital facilities (airports, power generators, warehouses for goods...) greatly affects the military support of the Ukrainian army, to which the allied countries are unable to provide adequate assistance.

Now Russia invades Europe this winter. Will the Governments fight it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYAboXw9eko

What makes you think that these drones are made in Iran and were simply renamed Geran-2? Do you have any proof of this other than allegations? Or the contact fuse of a kamikaze drone does not allow you to study the wreckage of even those drones that managed to shoot down? I pointed out to you above the difference between Geranium-2 and Shahid-136 (another navigation board). This is a significant difference that affects the accuracy of hitting the target.

In addition to Geran-2, Russia also has a kamikaze drone Geran-1 (very similar, but slightly more compact and with a rotary piston engine). The same class of drones also includes the loitering ammunition Lancet, which has recently also been often used in special operation. In general, this hysterical winding of snot on a fist about possible military assistance to Russia from Iran is quite funny. Considering that three dozen countries supply lethal weapons to Ukraine.

ps No Iranian Arms Delivery to Russia for Ukraine War  

I mean how do you know that the drones are being manufactured in Russia?  Where did you get this information?

Pretty much all irrelevant to the case. Adolf Putin ordered a few fakeferedums to make annexations as something demanded by the population. It is impossible for a population to express a will a gunpoint. Trying to pass the the illegal (thanks) annexations as something demanded by the population, but is simply impossible to recognise in the middle of a war, mass graves, killing and soldiers forcing people to vote. For those who want to understand, it is fairly simple.

As for you legal quotes ... well, sure... all annexations are illegal. No problem is that is what you are trying to prove?? So that would include the recent ones by Adolf Putin, sure, thanks - illegal they are - pretty much my point.

It is very clear for whoever wants to understand - for a change is the status of a region you would allow people to express views, pros and cons openly and in peace and then let the majority decide. It does not matter if it is one month, or two months or a year, it is about a large majority of countries and institutions considering the polling and campaigning free and pacific (pacific enough sometimes).

Is it relative? Yes. Does anything fly as you suggest? No, it does not. There is a minimum. Times are changing so much (thanks Trump, Boris, Putin, Xi,...) that is easy to put everything into doubt and make facts appear as "maybes" and you are just trying to relativize and put forward some legal opinions as if that was an exact science - it is not. The citizens of a territory can chose to organise themselves however they please, and that could be joining an existing country or abandoning an existing one.

If you are here to argue about semantics just do not use "annexation", but rather voluntarily joining or voluntary union  - short of what happens when a country joins the EU (and that sometimes is without referendum).  Does secession or annexation always require a referendum... I would say that it would also be acceptable that a government elected with full democratic guarantees and a program of claiming secession clearly expressed would be valid.

Now, all the whattabout:

- Catalonia held a referendum that did not have any guarantee so it was not accepted by any country in EU, nor US, nor pretty much anyone. It was very clear that it did not have the basics. Apart, is well known that of the four regions of Catalonia, two (including the capital Bacelona!) are not in favour of secession.

- The referendum on independence of Scotland, agreed with the UK government, resulted on a no. It did have all guarantees.

- Referendums in the old USSR were probably not required by the existing law (the USSR law did allow secession as far as I know). If you want to argue that they were illegal you would need something more that just saying so and if you are trying to make them like a "west" doing you would also need some evidence. No wonder you are using a source in Russian  


BTW, please see here a list of countries that declared their independence from UK. Do you think the west did accept these just for benefit?.