Topic: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] - page 280. (Read 77383 times)
On the Wagner thing, I have to say that making use of them undercuts the Russian excuse for their Ukraine actions as being based on ethical principles, and 'de-nazification' in particular (which I've never put much stock in anyway.) I've never heard anyone claim that these Wagner personnel are any 'better' than the average mercenary group, and nobody puts up much of a denial that straight-up neo-nazi influences exist in at least some of them.
Whether these cretins moon-light in human trafficking and that sort of thing like the the West's preferred PMCs (e.g., Erik Prince's outfits), I do not know. Haven't researched it much, but it would surprise me if they did _not_.
The way I'm seeing the problem of Ukraine and Russian I don't think that the problem been something that end any moment from this period. If time is not taken Ukraine will you lose everything they have because of this problem because it is quite clear that Russian is stronger than Ukraine but we need it the intervention of world power to solve the problem between the two countries and if everybody or every country ignore to reconcile the problem that is ongoing between Russia and Ukraine it will cause disaster in both countries
Following that logic Aiden Aslin wasn't a mecenary in Syria as well if he also signed some form there?
It's easy: If the main criteria for you is "to be paid" it's easy to say that every russian soldier is a mercenary in terms of international law. russia didn't declare a war to Ukraine, only some kind of "special operation", so all it's soldiers on ukraine territory it's a mercenaries. Without a proper (in terms of russian law) procedure they are going to another country to fight because of the fat they get paid for it.
So, DaRude trying to tell us that if Ukraine will sentence to death russian soldiers it will be good. Understood
Again, about "denazificators":
Translation: "I don't believe in anything, I'm here to do violence"
Patch of the dead Wagner merc. At least this one will not be able "to do violence" anymore.
Whoa, bite your tongue! With such criteria, you're labeling all those blokes from US and NATO during all those "operations" mercenaries? Careful, don't bite the hand that feeds you, they're the ones that are literally paying the bills for all of this now, wouldn't want to upset them. Need to come up with a more
*Unless you're part of an alliance that starts with NAT*
Russia is only doing an UN approved police action
Must be some Russian knock-off version of UN that "approved" it. Don't be shy, give us the link to the Kremlin conspiratard blog that fed you this bullshit.
Here are two sites:
https://www.newsfromtheperimeter.com/home/2022/5/11/russia-started-the-war-and-other-fallacies
https://www.scotsman.com/news/world/is-russia-part-of-the-un-and-what-is-article-51-of-the-un-charter-3584587
Do your own search to find many more.
https://europerenaissance.com/2022/03/01/putin-is-right-united-nations-charter-51/
Did the UN Security Counsel admonish Putin?
Russia is only doing an UN approved police action
Must be some Russian knock-off version of UN that "approved" it. Don't be shy, give us the link to the Kremlin conspiratard blog that fed you this bullshit.
Besides, this is typical propaganda move:
Edward Luttwak is telling that this is unlikely that Ukraine will free Crimea. And kremling puppet Veleor trying to show it as an example for statement "Ukraine is unlikely to get victory". Trying to use verbaly similar thesis to prove his statement.
Far example: I'm telling "Oh, i can't jump up to the Moon" , Veleor: "Johhny tells us that he can't jump"
Die Welt - June 5, 2022
Edward Luttwak
"The curious and strange thing about Russia is that even if it didn't have nuclear weapons, it would be impossible to achieve a Ukrainian victory in the sense that the Russians would be forced to withdraw completely, maybe even from Crimea".
Edward Luttwak
"The curious and strange thing about Russia is that even if it didn't have nuclear weapons, it would be impossible to achieve a Ukrainian victory in the sense that the Russians would be forced to withdraw completely, maybe even from Crimea".
Edward Luttwak is telling that this is unlikely that Ukraine will free Crimea. And kremling puppet Veleor trying to show it as an example for statement "Ukraine is unlikely to get victory". Trying to use verbaly similar thesis to prove his statement.
Far example: I'm telling "Oh, i can't jump up to the Moon" , Veleor: "Johhny tells us that he can't jump"
Ha ha Edward Luttwak, my himself, told pretty the sama things as me here:
Russia is only doing an UN approved police action, same as the US has been doing around the world for decades. That's why the US isn't becoming formally involved this time, even though they are handing over all kinds of money and armament to the Ukraine on the sly.
Do you think those police actions were something that the people of many of those countries loved? Of course not. They died for their rebellious activities, just like what's happening to Ukraine.
Here's what some American soldiers think about all the police actions they were forced into on behalf of the UN police-keeping policies. Don't blame Russia that they are being forced into doing the same things. Rather, back off and listen-to/obey Mother Russia.
The following video is kinda old.
Norwegian Soldiers Lip Sync to "Kosovo" - MUST SEE! [CC]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xu8Iotgll8A
Besides, this is typical propaganda move:
Edward Luttwak is telling that this is unlikely that Ukraine will free Crimea. And kremling puppet Veleor trying to show it as an example for statement "Ukraine is unlikely to get victory". Trying to use verbaly similar thesis to prove his statement.
Far example: I'm telling "Oh, i can't jump up to the Moon" , Veleor: "Johhny tells us that he can't jump"
Die Welt - June 5, 2022
Edward Luttwak
"The curious and strange thing about Russia is that even if it didn't have nuclear weapons, it would be impossible to achieve a Ukrainian victory in the sense that the Russians would be forced to withdraw completely, maybe even from Crimea".
Edward Luttwak
"The curious and strange thing about Russia is that even if it didn't have nuclear weapons, it would be impossible to achieve a Ukrainian victory in the sense that the Russians would be forced to withdraw completely, maybe even from Crimea".
Edward Luttwak is telling that this is unlikely that Ukraine will free Crimea. And kremling puppet Veleor trying to show it as an example for statement "Ukraine is unlikely to get victory". Trying to use verbaly similar thesis to prove his statement.
Far example: I'm telling "Oh, i can't jump up to the Moon" , Veleor: "Johhny tells us that he can't jump"
Ha ha Edward Luttwak, by himself, told pretty the sama things as me here:
And this fact tells us that such users as Veleor are close enough to russian propaganda machine (or useful idiot)
As far as mercenaries, I believe to become Ukrainian citizen they would have to give up their previous citizenship as Ukraine doesn't allow dual citizenship, which apparently didn't happen. How are they different from other mercenaries, or is the claim that there are no mercenaries at all in Ukraine and all foreign fighters fall under Geneva convention now because they signed some paper with UA army? Following that logic Aiden Aslin wasn't a mecenary in Syria as well if he also signed some form there?
Unless it's a civil war, isn't there always going to be one side made up of entirely foreign fighters? Does the geneva convention really exclude prisoners of war from human rights depending on what country their passport is from? That doesn't make sense to me.
I have a question that you don't have to answer, but I'll ask it. Have you read the text of this convention, which has already been repeatedly mentioned?
Following that logic Aiden Aslin wasn't a mecenary in Syria as well if he also signed some form there?
It's easy: If the main criteria for you is "to be paid" it's easy to say that every russian soldier is a mercenary in terms of international law. russia didn't declare a war to Ukraine, only some kind of "special operation", so all it's soldiers on ukraine territory it's a mercenaries. Without a proper (in terms of russian law) procedure they are going to another country to fight because of the fat they get paid for it.
So, DaRude trying to tell us that if Ukraine will sentence to death russian soldiers it will be good. Understood
Again, about "denazificators":
Translation: "I don't believe in anything, I'm here to do violence"
Patch of the dead Wagner merc. At least this one will not be able "to do violence" anymore.
As far as mercenaries, I believe to become Ukrainian citizen they would have to give up their previous citizenship as Ukraine doesn't allow dual citizenship, which apparently didn't happen. How are they different from other mercenaries, or is the claim that there are no mercenaries at all in Ukraine and all foreign fighters fall under Geneva convention now because they signed some paper with UA army? Following that logic Aiden Aslin wasn't a mecenary in Syria as well if he also signed some form there?
Unless it's a civil war, isn't there always going to be one side made up of entirely foreign fighters? Does the geneva convention really exclude prisoners of war from human rights depending on what country their passport is from? That doesn't make sense to me.
Donetsk region within Ukraine. Putin is a powerful man, but he has no power over the Supreme Court of a sovereign state (he doesn't even have power over Russia's Supreme Court).
On paper he don't have such power, but reality is a bit different. And it's fun to hear that Putin dodn't have power over Supreme Court of ''sovereign country, but at the same time he want to change path of sovereign country (Ukraine) and occupy as much as possible territory of it.A mercenary is still a soldier IMHO. They can be war criminals or even terrorists if they do not play by the rules, but that is related to their actions, not to their origin nor to the fact that they get paid - if you think of it, the RF soldiers get paid, are they not mercenaries? Are they not going to a foreign country to wage war and die just to steal territory and goods from Ukraine?
There is logic in your words and I think you are right. The soldier of the Russian army, who serves under the contract, is also in a sense a mercenary. It's not a problem to be a mercenary in itself, it only becomes a problem if you were taken prisoner in the DPR and you have some strange passport in an incomprehensible language with you. The matter is still the same, the RF is not only showing disrespect for PoWs, they are even making a point of killing them in public. What can you expect if you are an RF captured soldier and there are no officers present?
You've got it all mixed up again. The trial of the mercenaries took place in the DPR, from the point of view of Russia it is an independent state, from the point of view of Ukraine it is the Donetsk region within Ukraine. Putin is a powerful man, but he has no power over the Supreme Court of a sovereign state (he doesn't even have power over Russia's Supreme Court).Of the countries that really matter to the case, this "independent state" is only recognised by RF and only sustained thanks to the RF money and weaponry. Stop pretending that something in the RF or the "republics" is done without the seal of the Tzar, nobody is going to believe you.
Again, you can make any argument you want, it does not change the chances for the RF invading army PoWs.
Ukraine may actually be following it at government level - you can follow the convention even if you do not recognise it.
The matter is still the same, the RF is not only showing disrespect for PoWs, they are even making a point of killing them in public. What can you expect if you are an RF captured soldier and there are no officers present?
I heard its even worse if officer is present
Officers of the Ukrainian defence army are there to implement the official policies. As of now, the official policy is to follow the rules of war and the Geneva Convention as far as I know. There may be groups in Ukraine that may not have such a degree of discipline, but that is a completely different matter from having an official policy of classing PoWs as "terrorists" and kill them.
All in all, this simply makes life much harder for both RF and Ukrainian soldiers.
I'd be careful challenging independence on the grounds of being sustained thanks to other nation's money and weaponry.
We’re almost out of ammunition and relying on western arms, says Ukraine
Quote
Ukraine’s deputy head of military intelligence has said Ukraine is losing against Russia on the frontlines and is now reliant almost solely on weapons from the west to keep Russia at bay.
...
“This is an artillery war now,” said Vadym Skibitsky, deputy head of Ukraine’s military intelligence.
...
“Everything now depends on what [the west] gives us,” said Skibitsky.
...
“Words turn into actions. That’s the difference between Ukraine’s relationship with Great Britain and other countries,” Zelenskiy said in a video statement. “Weapons, finance, sanctions – on these three issues, Britain shows leadership.”
...
Ukraine is using 5,000 to 6,000 artillery rounds a day, according to Skibitsky. “We have almost used up all of our [artillery] ammunition and are now using 155-calibre Nato standard shells,” he said of the ammunition that is fired from artillery pieces.
...
This week the Ukrainian presidential adviser Oleksiy Arestovych told the Guardian that Ukraine needed 60 multiple-rocket launchers – many more than the handful promised so far by the UK and US – to have a chance of defeating Russia.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/10/were-almost-out-of-ammunition-and-relying-on-western-arms-says-ukraine...
“This is an artillery war now,” said Vadym Skibitsky, deputy head of Ukraine’s military intelligence.
...
“Everything now depends on what [the west] gives us,” said Skibitsky.
...
“Words turn into actions. That’s the difference between Ukraine’s relationship with Great Britain and other countries,” Zelenskiy said in a video statement. “Weapons, finance, sanctions – on these three issues, Britain shows leadership.”
...
Ukraine is using 5,000 to 6,000 artillery rounds a day, according to Skibitsky. “We have almost used up all of our [artillery] ammunition and are now using 155-calibre Nato standard shells,” he said of the ammunition that is fired from artillery pieces.
...
This week the Ukrainian presidential adviser Oleksiy Arestovych told the Guardian that Ukraine needed 60 multiple-rocket launchers – many more than the handful promised so far by the UK and US – to have a chance of defeating Russia.
Quote
The latest bill, which had been delayed for a week by the objection of Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky, includes money for logistical support and training for Ukrainian military and national security forces, and for a fund intended to secure the continuity of Ukraine’s government.
https://web.archive.org/web/20220609211642/https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/05/20/upshot/ukraine-us-aid-size.htmlAs far as mercenaries, I believe to become Ukrainian citizen they would have to give up their previous citizenship as Ukraine doesn't allow dual citizenship, which apparently didn't happen. How are they different from other mercenaries, or is the claim that there are no mercenaries at all in Ukraine and all foreign fighters fall under Geneva convention now because they signed some paper with UA army? Following that logic Aiden Aslin wasn't a mecenary in Syria as well if he also signed some form there?
Kyiv refused to comply with the Geneva Convention in relation to Russian prisoners of war. You have a very short and selective memory if you don't remember it.
Is this social media rumor/russian propaganda what you're talking about? Where Ukraine told the UK that it did not intend to follow the GC anymore?
Russian media and social media users are claiming that Ukraine has refused to comply with the Geneva Convention on the Treatment of Prisoners of War. Citing Colonel-General Mikhail Mizintsev, the head of the Russian National Defense Control Center, RIA Novosti claims that on April 1 Ukraine allegedly notified the UK that it had no intention of adhering to the Geneva convention when it comes to treatment of Russian prisoners of war.
https://www.stopfake.org/en/fake-ukraine-revokes-the-geneva-convention/
You've got it all mixed up again. The trial of the mercenaries took place in the DPR, from the point of view of Russia it is an independent state, from the point of view of Ukraine it is the Donetsk region within Ukraine. Putin is a powerful man, but he has no power over the Supreme Court of a sovereign state (he doesn't even have power over Russia's Supreme Court).
"independent state" LOL
How about getting out of independent states and stop fueling the war, can the great commander slash forever president do that?
Big on independence when it suits him, except doesn't recognize the right to exist of about a dozen independent countries.
Officers of the Ukrainian defence army are there to implement the official policies. As of now, the official policy is to follow the rules of war and the Geneva Convention as far as I know. There may be groups in Ukraine that may not have such a degree of discipline, but that is a completely different matter from having an official policy of classing PoWs as "terrorists" and kill them.
All in all, this simply makes life much harder for both RF and Ukrainian soldiers.
Funny that you say this and at the same time commend the tourists that joined the RF orcs army. So the criteria is that only Ukrainian nationals are soldiers? Then all this guys are terrorists fighting for Adolf Putin:
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/24/what-role-is-chechnyas-ramzan-kadyrov-playing-in-ukraine
Quote
Just two days after the Russian invasion of Ukraine was launched, Ramzan Kadyrov, president of Russia’s Chechen Republic, announced his forces were deployed to the battlefield.
They would do well to go back home and use their time making more little Chechens instead of dying (as terrorists) for Putin.
But the fighters of Wagner's private military company are mercenaries. Although they are fighting on the side of Russia (and seem to be quite successful in combat missions), you have never heard me praise them here.
A mercenary is still a soldier IMHO. They can be war criminals or even terrorists if they do not play by the rules, but that is related to their actions, not to their origin nor to the fact that they get paid - if you think of it, the RF soldiers get paid, are they not mercenaries? Are they not going to a foreign country to wage war and die just to steal territory and goods from Ukraine?
This is not true or not entirely true. Two citizens of Great Britain and one citizen of Morocco were convicted. As far as I know, the Englishman Sean Pinner is married to a Ukrainian, but this does not automatically make him a Ukrainian.
I don't know Ukraine laws good enough, but I'm not sure that person with Ukrainian citizenship can serve in Ukraine Army. Any way, it doesn't changes fact that they're regular part of Ukraine Army. It's not same as to serve in foreign legion or mercenary.Donetsk region within Ukraine. Putin is a powerful man, but he has no power over the Supreme Court of a sovereign state (he doesn't even have power over Russia's Supreme Court).
On paper he don't have such power, but reality is a bit different. And it's fun to hear that Putin dodn't have power over Supreme Court of ''sovereign country, but at the same time he want to change path of sovereign country (Ukraine) and occupy as much as possible territory of it. Officers of the Ukrainian defence army are there to implement the official policies. As of now, the official policy is to follow the rules of war and the Geneva Convention as far as I know. There may be groups in Ukraine that may not have such a degree of discipline, but that is a completely different matter from having an official policy of classing PoWs as "terrorists" and kill them.
All in all, this simply makes life much harder for both RF and Ukrainian soldiers.
Funny that you say this and at the same time commend the tourists that joined the RF orcs army. So the criteria is that only Ukrainian nationals are soldiers? Then all this guys are terrorists fighting for Adolf Putin:
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/24/what-role-is-chechnyas-ramzan-kadyrov-playing-in-ukraine
Quote
Just two days after the Russian invasion of Ukraine was launched, Ramzan Kadyrov, president of Russia’s Chechen Republic, announced his forces were deployed to the battlefield.
They would do well to go back home and use their time making more little Chechens instead of dying (as terrorists) for Putin.
But the fighters of Wagner's private military company are mercenaries. Although they are fighting on the side of Russia (and seem to be quite successful in combat missions), you have never heard me praise them here.
Officers of the Ukrainian defence army are there to implement the official policies. As of now, the official policy is to follow the rules of war and the Geneva Convention as far as I know. There may be groups in Ukraine that may not have such a degree of discipline, but that is a completely different matter from having an official policy of classing PoWs as "terrorists" and kill them.
All in all, this simply makes life much harder for both RF and Ukrainian soldiers.
Funny that you say this and at the same time commend the tourists that joined the RF orcs army. So the criteria is that only Ukrainian nationals are soldiers? Then all this guys are terrorists fighting for Adolf Putin:
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/24/what-role-is-chechnyas-ramzan-kadyrov-playing-in-ukraine
Quote
Just two days after the Russian invasion of Ukraine was launched, Ramzan Kadyrov, president of Russia’s Chechen Republic, announced his forces were deployed to the battlefield.
They would do well to go back home and use their time making more little Chechens instead of dying (as terrorists) for Putin.
Not to mention these world class tourists
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_Group
Officers of the Ukrainian defence army are there to implement the official policies. As of now, the official policy is to follow the rules of war and the Geneva Convention as far as I know. There may be groups in Ukraine that may not have such a degree of discipline, but that is a completely different matter from having an official policy of classing PoWs as "terrorists" and kill them.
All in all, this simply makes life much harder for both RF and Ukrainian soldiers.
The matter is still the same, the RF is not only showing disrespect for PoWs, they are even making a point of killing them in public. What can you expect if you are an RF captured soldier and there are no officers present?
You've got it all mixed up again. The trial of the mercenaries took place in the DPR, from the point of view of Russia it is an independent state, from the point of view of Ukraine it is the Donetsk region within Ukraine. Putin is a powerful man, but he has no power over the Supreme Court of a sovereign state (he doesn't even have power over Russia's Supreme Court).Of the countries that really matter to the case, this "independent state" is only recognised by RF and only sustained thanks to the RF money and weaponry. Stop pretending that something in the RF or the "republics" is done without the seal of the Tzar, nobody is going to believe you.
Again, you can make any argument you want, it does not change the chances for the RF invading army PoWs.
Ukraine may actually be following it at government level - you can follow the convention even if you do not recognise it.
The matter is still the same, the RF is not only showing disrespect for PoWs, they are even making a point of killing them in public. What can you expect if you are an RF captured soldier and there are no officers present?
I heard its even worse if officer is present
Officers of the Ukrainian defence army are there to implement the official policies. As of now, the official policy is to follow the rules of war and the Geneva Convention as far as I know. There may be groups in Ukraine that may not have such a degree of discipline, but that is a completely different matter from having an official policy of classing PoWs as "terrorists" and kill them.
All in all, this simply makes life much harder for both RF and Ukrainian soldiers.
Jump to: