Topic: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] - page 281. (Read 61111 times)

So, ok, Arestovich said this stuff about Zelensky few years ago. There was lot of things said about him before and after elections from public person in Ukraine. But does all these things matters now after few years?

What a classic . Zelensky addicted to drugs or alcochol. Putin already called Kiev as gang of drug addicts, nothing surprising that you use this nareative.

I'm just going to pick one and cherry pick your already picked cherries:


Literally every UN update on death count explicitly says the numbers they are providing are only confirmed deaths, and they expect the actual number to be much higher.  They aren't even counting the major cities that have basically been destroyed over the past 2 months.

https://www.ohchr.org/en/news/2022/04/ukraine-civilian-casualty-update-11-april-2022

I'm trying to think of a way that your argument isn't being made in bad faith, and I can't.  You obviously have access to the internet and UN reports.  You obviously know the war is still going on, making it impossible to know the actual number of dead civilians.  And you don't seem like a retard that doesn't understand the difference between 'confirmed deaths' and the actual number of deaths.  

Moving the goalposts. My statement was that Russian propaganda is blatantly lying (as opposed to "exaggerating") and this is one example of such.


Ok, I'll give you translation of "пpaктичecки" as "almost", even though it's typical propaganda nonsense.


Whataboutism. Should I post that RT video now about "children with white skin"?


Straw man - I'm not talking about the definition of genocide. I'm talking about civilians being killed by Russian soldiers in occupied territories. Lots of proof of that, which Russian propaganda labelled as fake, up to and including drone videos and satellite photos, we've been through that. You can keep claiming it's fake but to any reasonable person it's reasonable evidence of killing civilians.

Looting has also been widely documented, including Russian soldiers shipping the "goods" home from Belarus.


Straw man. Also when everything is counted, Ukrainian civilian deaths are likely to be higher than that (20 thousand estimated dead in Mariupol alone), as if that somehow makes Russian propaganda more truthful  


A twofer - burden of proof / tu quoque. The Russian side presented a load of bullshit to put it mildly. There are plenty of fact checks on that, such as:

https://www.bbc.com/news/60711705


Mariupol.


That was on the 14th. Now it's confirmed: https://thehill.com/policy/defense/3269904-pentagon-backs-ukraines-claim-it-hit-russian-warship-with-two-missiles/


You're going too far out of your way trying to justify for Russian propaganda lies. To me this seems more like an attempt to muddy the water than an attempt "to understand".

What is the definition of a Nazi as used in the postings in this thread?

I admit to only 'lightly' know a Hitler type Nazi, but surely that has changed in 80 years?

(although the portable crematoriums used in Ukraine by the Russians gives me pause to think)

I have a very bad news for you but Putin has officially hired Nazis to fight for him long ago.


A very famous Nazi group of Russia's Troops are German Nazi entrepreneurs participating in Putins wars again and again. It's Wagner group and was involved already in Syria to keep Despot Assad in power and Putin hired Wagner's troops. Wagner's Nazi troops are officially emplayed by Russian govt.
CEO of Wagner group is currently Dmitriy Utkin, a Russian Nazi: https://www.italy24news.com/world/391586.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_Group

You can look at Google pictures, Dmitriy Utkin, a russian Nazi, is glorifying german Nazi symbolism and ideology.


Yes, Nazis are officially hired by Putin's govt. 

suchmoon, I numbered the paragraphs in your message for detailed analysis and easier commenting.

1. "Just military training, definitely not invasion"
The Russian leadership deceived everyone in early February 2022 that they were just conducting military training and were not going to attack. But what does this lie have to do with the topic of the achievements of the Russian army in Ukraine? Most likely, the plan and the exact date of the invasion were known to a limited circle of people in the Kremlin. This lie partially explains why the statements of the Russian high command are not trusted. However, this doesn't mean that the statements of all Russian officials are now a priori false. Of course, they need additional verification, but it is also impossible to completely discard them as unreliable.

2. "Entire Ukrainian air force and AA defense was allegedly destroyed but continues to function two months later".
Please indicate your source, according to which the Russian military said about the "entire destruction" of Ukrainian air force.
As far as I know, the Russian General Staff didn't report such a thing. It is necessary to take into account every word in official statements in order to avoid false interpretations.
On March 25, 2022, Colonel General Sergei Rudskoy told reporters: "At present, the Ukrainian air force and air defense system have been almost completely destroyed. The country's naval forces have ceased to exist".
Further in the same article, the number of destroyed and remaining Ukrainian military equipment is given:

For those who doubt that the Russian army now has an advantage in the air, I recommend to read the article in the Insider magazine dated April 16, 2022.
"Ukrainian pilots launch 'Buy Me A Jet' campaign to help defeat Russia's massive air superiority"
By the way, a video was posted in this article, and attentive users noticed that at 01:15 a Ukrainian pilot wears a Black Sun chevron, which refers to Nazi symbols.



3. "Russian soldiers came to "liberate" but instead killed civilians and looted homes".
Nothing can justify violence, and civilians suffer in every war, but there should be strong grounds for saying that Russian troops are purposefully killing Ukrainian civilians, literally engaging in genocide.
Note:

According to the UN, from February 24 to April 15, 2022, 1982 civilians died in Ukraine.
You can compare this information with the data from the Iraq War because it is well known. This statistic is consistent with the Statista website.
The war in Iraq began on March 20, 2003. In Iraq 7434 citizens died after 42 days (from March 20 to May 1 in 2003).
In the early days of the war in Iraq, more than three times as many people died as in Ukraine. But, as far as I know, the world community has not condemned the United States for the targeted extermination of Iraqi civilians.



On the issue of statistics, it must be taken into account that complete chaos is happening in Ukraine now. There is already a documented case of how Ukrainian Territorial Defense fighters, while under the influence of drugs, shot a 12-year-old Ukrainian boy and wounded his friend, thinking that they were Russian saboteurs. This is to the words of some users that civilians in Ukraine allegedly do not die at the hands of their military. It is still in question to which side these victims will be attributed. And there is a high risk that such cases will continue, since in Ukraine thousands of machine guns were distributed to volunteers and, moreover, Ukrainian prisoners were released so that they would go to war with the Russian army.

4. "30 biolabs developing military geese and pigeon corps".
You distorted the original statement of the Representative of Russia to the United Nations Vasily Nebenzya. On March 11, he made the statement:

Apparently, you have reason to be sarcastic on this topic if you have studied the materials presented by the Russian side and if you are a professional infectious disease specialist in order to completely eliminate the bacteriological threat from that 30 labs in Ukraine. Can you share your expert opinion in order to break the arguments of the Russian side on this issue once and for all?

5. "Russia "defending" Donbas but killing predominantly Russian-speaking Donbas population".
This is a very serious accusation. What are you basing it on?
According to the French war reporter Anne-Laure Bonnel during an interview with a French TV channel, it was not Russia, but the Ukrainian government that bombed its own population in the Donbass.




6. "The flagship randomly catches fire because it can't possibly be that the non-existent Bayraktars and non-existent Ukrainian anti-ship missiles could have something to do with it".
Even Pentagon spokesman John Kirby doesn't know the exact reason why the Moscow cruiser sank. Personally, I believe that the probable cause of the explosion, in addition to the version with Ukrainian Neptune missiles, could be sabotage by one of the team members, since I see no particular reason for Russia to deny the Ukrainian missile attack (if there really was one) as the cause of the sinking. Because Russia previously admitted that the Ukrainian Armed Forces damaged the Russian large landing ship "Saratov".
Ukrainian officials claimed that the Bayraktars diverted the air defense of the Moscow cruiser, and this video indirectly confirms it. However, the video doesn't show the burning cruiser Moscow, but a fire on a Tanzanian ship in 2019.



7. "But by all means, keep looking for excuses for Russian propaganda lies".
Do not confuse excuses with an attempt to understand the current situation, when a lot of fake information is published.

True bitcoiners would never praise totalitarian nutjobs, like you always do. Freedom used to be universally desired until your generation of intertubes-brainwashed zombies pretending that their incoherent ramblings matter more than facts.

True to the heart Bitcoiners don't care, they are "kings" in the own right and equal to all sock-puppets.
Sh!itcoiners will never get grip of it, it is way beyond there horizion.
It was clear from the beginning the Azov fools got sold out (sacrificed) by Zelenskyy from the get go.
Same same as always it is not | vs | but ‾ vs _

And how are you justifying the Nazis leading and fighting for the DPR and LPR?  These are Nazis with actual political power with Putins full support.  What's the difference in Russian Nazis and Ukrainian Nazis? (Other than Russian Nazis have political office and Ukrainian Nazis don't)

I don't care for either of them.  They are both just sock-puppets animated and funded by the same group near the top of the pyramid.  The 'Russians' also BTW.

There is a nuance, the Nazi battalion Azov is part of the Armed Forces of Ukraine as a regular unit. Before you publicly justify the Nazis, think twice - whether you are fighting in the wrong direction.

It's pretty ironic that the far right/pro putin groups from the west have fallen for the Russian propaganda line justifying the attack because there are far right groups fighting for Ukraine.

You know there are Nazis in the US also right?  And they are also against the liberals and their cancel cultutre, virtue signaling, main stream media, lgbtq rights, etc...

Nope.  I didn't transform into a state department shill in one short month.  Put me back on your ignore list and check back in 20 years.


Oh, I see:

Steel mill Azov:


Port Azov:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrU0Y_2eU8I


Lol.  I hope if I ever get 'pinned down' in combat it is in the way Azov and associated mercenaries pinned down the Chechens in Mariupol.

I'm guessing that for to long the 'defenders' believed the stories about a Ukrainian breakthrough to save their asses, and probably thought that with the Western mercenaries among them, the West would somehow come to the rescue.  The joke is on them because the only people who would like to see them dead more than Russia would be Zelenski and their Jewish oligarch sponsors (edit: and U.S. state department Jews such as Victoria Nudelman-Kagan) who have been paying them for a decade for just this day.

Takes a lot of 'character' to justify the use of human shields just to maybe give a little more time for Western weapons to come in to some other part of the country.  I will give you that.

As Zinaida Gipius said, "if you need to explain, then you don't need to explain".

Maybe you want something fresher? The 52nd day of the special operation, President Zelensky of Ukraine appears to be pretty drunk or under the influence of drugs. The video seems to be a deepfake, but the link is to Zelensky's official Instagram lol.

Meanwhile, the Voronezh special forces are returning home from Ukraine. The operation is still ongoing, but after six weeks, a planned rotation of personnel is being carried out to give the fighters a rest.

Don't forget the Ukrainian postal service. They must have had a hand in this, timed it perfectly as a promotion for the postal stamp - can't be a coincidence

Seriously though, the ship was built in Ukraine and its defensive stuff is similar to the ground systems used by Ukraine (e.g. C300) so I wouldn't overestimate the US "help"... albeit some satellite and Global Hawk surveillance probably helped.

Edit - some unconfirmed pictures are showing up on twitface: https://twitter.com/osinttechnical

Not that there was any doubt about the "storm" and "waves" that sank it but yeah... there is no storm. Just cloudy.

Not the ones in Azovstal for what I know. I may be wrong, but they knew where they were getting into and had chances to fly. The one's that surrendered in Mariupol's port belonged to a different contingent, and, to be honest, had a worse terrain to defend.

Please, do not get me wrong, these people are not super-human, they die and need food and water, but they are quite peculiar in terms of their moral and will to fight. The longer they pin the Russian army, the more chances Ukraine has to use the West's aid.

Gee, can't imagine what no food, no shower, constant shelling, and little sleep for 60 days might do to a persons 'looks'

I took you off ignore to see if you had anything intelligent to add, but, nope.

There are a pretty steady stream of them being paraded on the internet now that Mariupol has fallen.  They look surprisingly like the faces-of-meth tweakers which populate my area in the Pacific Northwest.  There is just something about that look (and behavior toward non-combatants.)  It's more than just the tattoos.

As said on my previous post, loosing one of the three Slava class ships, which do have quite decent defences in place, in which seems like a well though, but frankly not too complex attack (a couple of sub-sonic missiles and, what appears to be some minor distractions) goes beyond a simple local success. For me it may (I am saying may) reveal:

a) The US intelligence service is collaborating with Ukraine to a very large extent, even when planning strategies and tactics.
b) The US intelligence service has in-depth understanding of the naval defence systems on Russian Navy and seems to have analysed their weaknesses perfectly.
c) Putin cannot put any short of faith in a sea launched attack or support.
d) The real effectiveness of the Russian fleet may be well below what Putin generals are counting on, not just on this particular case.

There are a number of news that may still be awaiting Putin's troops. The last shipment of US aid was undisclosed in content and the training of Ukrainian troops in new tactics may bring very nasty surprises with it.

On regards to Mariupol, the Azovstal installations are like a city inside a city. There is a network of tunnels and hidden storages that make a frontal assault nearly impossible. Shelling has also a limited effect and only the Ukrainians know how many reserves may they hold. Eventually it may fall, but it may consume time an resources at large.

As for the soldiers, the ones in there are not the type of soldiers that expect anything better than death from Putin's psychos.

Fiasco...


Two types of Russian fiasco's, one they should be ashamed of and the other is laughable.

Özdemir warns of hunger crisis

“Food and Agriculture Minister Cem Özdemir also called for an increase in arms deliveries. He warned that otherwise there could be a global hunger crisis. “We have received alarming news from Ukraine, where Russian troops are apparently also deliberately destroying agricultural infrastructure and supply chains,”    “ https://globeecho.com/news/europe/germany/von-der-leyen-demands-rapid-arms-deliveries-to-ukraine/ (and many others)


“
Russia Shows Off Crew of Sunken Moskva Warship—With Quite a Few Missing

Russia’s Defense Ministry released a brief video on Saturday of the head of the Navy meeting with crew members of the sunken warship Moskva, as social media posts have surfaced that appear to confirm at least one death on board.

In a 26-second video—the first public appearance of the crew since Moscow admitted the country’s most powerful battleship had sunk—Admiral Nikolai Yevmenov is seen meeting with crew members in Sevastopol. About 100 sailors can be seen, although at least 500 were on board at the time the ship went down after Ukrainian officials said they successfully struck it with at least one Neptune missile.  https://news.yahoo.com/russia-shows-off-crew-sunken-213308080.html “

Losing at least 400 sailors and a massive 600+ foot battleship to what amounts to American 4th of July fireworks,  what a fiasco.