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Topic: Sanction isn't the right option - page 13. (Read 2728 times)

hero member
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March 20, 2022, 02:01:29 AM
#52

Do you really think Russia and Putin are foolish enough to make similar mistakes? I don't think so. Personally, I don't completely support these sanctions since they are hurting innocent Russian citizens who don't support the war.


There is no such thing right now as innocent russian citizens. Most russian support the war agains Ukraine
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/not-just-putin-most-russians-support-the-war-in-ukraine/

You can also check their own polls here https://www.vedomosti.ru/politics/articles/2022/02/28/911382-68-rossiyan-podderzhivayut

Those, who seems not being supportive of criminal actions, also guilty, and it is not even about the moral side of the issue.There is a legal term for criminal inaction, which is exactly what most of those who do not seem to support putin are doing. I am grateful to those ones that are protesting and openly declaring the crimes of the russian government and population, but the number of such people is catastrophically small compared to 144 million population.

Moreover, I perceive such indicators as a total failure of the humanitarian, in particular philosophical, sphere in russia. Representatives of the humanitarian sphere are involved in the formation of public opinion. They need to be aware of what they have created. If they don't realize it, it shows their stupidity. If they are aware it shows their crimes against humanity. The people who can be called the most innocent are the small part of the critical population who, it follows, should understand why such sanctions have been imposed on their country. Therefore, they must agree to the need for such a decision, if they are honest with themselves.
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March 19, 2022, 11:47:21 PM
#51
Sanctions are definitely the best way to go about tackling the issue on Ukraine with Russia. All these are in a bid to reck Russians economy so as to ensure Putin lacks the needed funds to finance the way but to a large extent, there is an introduction of bias in the way this sanctions are been given.

You can imagine almost every sector being sanctioned and still USA buys gas from Russia! What's that suppose to imply? Or are we to say they don't know what they are doing?

Apparently, USA understands that it's citizens would have to suffer on that part and as such, they turn a blind eye while other nations rush to sanction Russia. War is not always an easy thing and I pray peace to both nations.

Haha, you are right. USA and EU countries say we will go hard on Russia but they are still buying gas from them which is one of the main funding for Russia. Without fully cutting off Russia's funding from exporting commodities this type of sanction won't work. EU has no alternative either that they can import gas from. Syria won't give transit to Qatar to export gas through the pipeline. That means Russia is the only option left no matter what they do.
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March 18, 2022, 03:20:09 PM
#50
Sanctions are definitely the best way to go about tackling the issue on Ukraine with Russia. All these are in a bid to reck Russians economy so as to ensure Putin lacks the needed funds to finance the way but to a large extent, there is an introduction of bias in the way this sanctions are been given.

You can imagine almost every sector being sanctioned and still USA buys gas from Russia! What's that suppose to imply? Or are we to say they don't know what they are doing?

Apparently, USA understands that it's citizens would have to suffer on that part and as such, they turn a blind eye while other nations rush to sanction Russia. War is not always an easy thing and I pray peace to both nations.
This is what war is like in the sense that we never know what agreement there is between these countries because what we know so far is that the US has imposed sanctions on Russia but on the other hand they are still buying gas from them.
if the war continues for long I don't think this will be good not only for Ukraine but the world will be affected too,
Of course we all want peace but it won't come easy
legendary
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March 18, 2022, 02:51:46 PM
#49
Sanctions are definitely the best way to go about tackling the issue on Ukraine with Russia. All these are in a bid to reck Russians economy so as to ensure Putin lacks the needed funds to finance the way but to a large extent, there is an introduction of bias in the way this sanctions are been given.

You can imagine almost every sector being sanctioned and still USA buys gas from Russia! What's that suppose to imply? Or are we to say they don't know what they are doing?

Apparently, USA understands that it's citizens would have to suffer on that part and as such, they turn a blind eye while other nations rush to sanction Russia. War is not always an easy thing and I pray peace to both nations.
legendary
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March 18, 2022, 01:59:38 PM
#48
I think the biggest mistake in op's sort of thinking is that Russia is mistakenly considered a superpower. Russia surely believes it's a superpower, and some Western countries believe that as well, but they're actually thinking of the past, of the Soviet Union that indeed posed a significant threat and had to be dealt with respectfully. Russia has a huge territory, but, economically, it's a developing country. And, militarily, 'the second strongest army in the world' turned out to be a fraction of the might they were supposed to have, thanks to disorganization and corruption, largely. So yes, sanctions will definitely work on Russia. The question is more about the time it takes till the total collapse: weeks, months, maybe a year? And for Ukraine, every day matters because every day Russia is killing many civilians.
Do you really think Russia and Putin are foolish enough to make similar mistakes? I don't think so. Personally, I don't completely support these sanctions since they are hurting innocent Russian citizens who don't support the war.
Speaking of 'innocent Russian citizens', there aren't as many of those as you might think there are. In fact, according to independent polling, 70% of Russians support the war against Ukraine. Needless to say, official state polling also shows strong Russian support of the war. And if the vast majority support Putin right now, it's totally fair that they'll suffer. I'm sorry that some of those who oppose the war will suffer from it as well, but it's a war and that's just how it works.
sr. member
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March 17, 2022, 01:46:20 PM
#47
I mean I wouldn’t say that no one learns from history, that is after all the whole point of history, learning from the past. That’s at least why I’ve always loved history and studied it closely. I think trying to cripple Russia with sanctions is really all we can do at this point in time. If NATO were to try and fight back at all, that would assuredly start World War III. Then China gets involved and we probably all will die , so I think we are doubt the best we can right now without starting another war.
Nuclear weapons is the only reason why we should not attack Russia (and death of all the soldiers as well). I mean without nuclear weapons, it is clear that NATO could attack Russia, and even China and beat them very easily, they just have insane weapon difference.

Let me put it this way, USA spends twice more than China and Russia combined, MORE THAN DOUBLE. That should tell you how strong USA could be in case of a war and we are talking about just one nation versus the threat here, then we have all of Europe as well.

Cut down on economy, live in poverty, use all that to produce more weapons and money on everything, you end up with even more success. But, what is the result? What would you get? Maybe some American puppet at Russia? Which will lose elections as soon as possible and another Putin at the top? Are you going to topple CCP and get a capitalist elected? I doubt that. So, there is really no point in a war.
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March 17, 2022, 10:28:36 AM
#46
Diplomatically sanctions are absolutely the right option. Not only because it persuades the people of the country to lobby the government to stop the war. But yes it's effect on the country doing the sanctions is very harsh too. Not only it weakens the overall economic condition of the country but think of that specific business who was involved in exporting the good to that country also some businesses which won't be able to complete their orders as the part which was necessary for the product couldn't be imported. But to stop the war I don't see any other peaceful option which doesn't directly kills people.
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March 17, 2022, 09:56:27 AM
#45
I don't think sanctions would make the situation better. It only makes innocent people suffer and to be honest, people from other continents are also affected by these sanctions that cause economic breakdown globally. Sanctions couldn't stop Putin from invading Ukraine and it might only make the situation worse. I guess before imposing sanctions, authorities would think twice if it would have a positive impact to stop the war.
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March 17, 2022, 08:41:51 AM
#44
I don't think this will work against a nuclear armed country. Case in point, North Korea. Yes, they are suffering but did that stopped them from making nukes, which is what the sanctions was hoping to achieve? No.

That's what's likely going to happen with Russia. It could eventually lead to a pull-out from Ukraine but now you've got another nuclear-armed country that China can use as a scourge against its enemies.

Do I think something should be done to stop the violence? Yes. Sanctions are a start but against a determined regime, it's far less effective than most people would think.

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March 17, 2022, 08:03:02 AM
#43
The kind of sanctions imposed on Russia is war sanctions due to their invasion on Ukrainian soil. Am believing that she'll grow her original capability and look towards Asia or the Middle East for patronage. Russia is no foreigner to warrants though. The UK is finding different means to destabilise the Russian economy. If China can live through warrants and flourish by it, Russia can do the same. Russia will survive the sanctions like the Germans and come out strong.

I have come to the realized that the kind of sanctions imposed on Iran and other nations are just like kindergarten sanctions compared to that of Russia
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March 16, 2022, 06:59:18 PM
#42
It will result to multiple effects since there are certain things will get affected in terms of economical aspect especially if the country has been sanction is also a consider a 1st world country which they can also rebut and that's what happening right now where there's a huge effect which totally hurt the global market right now. But it will really give a problem to the main country like Russia since they only have limited things to do especially when dealing their products and also their economy is totally sinking for this action imposed to them.
They might able to sustain for a while but we know that nothing do last forever specially if everything was cut or having no support due to those sanctions been imposed on other countries
which sooner or later they would really able to felt out those after effects and this is the consequence on what their government had done.

Some saying that this isnt the solution for the war to be stopped but these sanctions would surely hurt a lot when they do need it the most.
legendary
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March 16, 2022, 06:48:31 PM
#41
It will result to multiple effects since there are certain things will get affected in terms of economical aspect especially if the country has been sanction is also a consider a 1st world country which they can also rebut and that's what happening right now where there's a huge effect which totally hurt the global market right now. But it will really give a problem to the main country like Russia since they only have limited things to do especially when dealing their products and also their economy is totally sinking for this action imposed to them.
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March 16, 2022, 06:39:09 PM
#40
It is true that economic sanctions may break the backs of many countries. The country will become poor, maybe try to be self-sufficient, if it can, it will be able to survive, but it will not be able to shout at all. However, these theories may apply to Venezuela, Iran, and North Korea. But what happens when you try to play this kind of game with superpowers?


In my opinion the effects of sanctions on a superpower are even worse than on the smaller nations like Venezuela or North Korea. A superpower is usually strongly connected in international trade an relys on exports for the economic growth. Once many nations join in on the sanctions the trade will collapse and send the currency downwards. The lower currency makes imports more expensive, which will make force down the economy even more. In my opinion sanctions are important and should be applied, but the severity of them is a issue. The harder the sanctions the more the ordinary people are going to suffer. This might make people more radical and not change the desired politics. I would expect if you ask people in North Korea, Iran or Venezuela how they feel about the sanctions and their attitude towards the West, they will probably blame more the foreign countries than their own leaders.  
legendary
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March 16, 2022, 05:26:04 PM
#39
The greatest lesson of history is that no one learns from history. The same thing that is being done with Russia today is being done with Germany. Following Germany's defeat in World War I, Germany was burdened with a huge debt burden of about 269 billion gold coins. In terms of money, it is equivalent to 1 lakh tons of gold. The sole purpose of imposing this huge debt was that France and Britain wanted Germany to break the economic deadlock and not even think of war for the next hundred years. A master plan to subdue Germany without a war.
~
This debt burden and all the degrading chapters of the 1st Treaty of Versailles led to the rise of extremism in Germany. By capitalizing on which, the national hero becomes a hit-and-run offensive. Those who pushed for the treaty rather than cripple Germany seemed to invite more rather than avoid war through the treaty. Everyone knows the history of violence in the rest of Europe.

The greatest lesson in history only comes when you actually read the history books.
Just how Russians forget that between Napoleon and Hitler there was Napoleon III, Katsura Taro and Wilhelm II.

After the total meltdown during the Weimar Republic, there was a period called the golden twenties, it wasn't that debt that pushed the Nazi party in power during as the late 20s they didn't get even 3% of the votes, it was the Great Depression that triggered a world crisis which would bring them to that point.
So, the chances of history repeating are zero, because first, you have the nazi already in power in Russia, it's not the world that is experiencing a global depression, it's just Russia, and while the nazis did benefit a lot from an already industrialized Germany, all Russia has right now is...rubles.

Sanctions backfire when overused. Right now, the U.S. is going a bit overboard with their sanctions and seizing assets of anyone that might be related to Russia. The obvious result is Russia will instead do business with China and perhaps India, carrying no USD assets and switching to Yuan, among others. USD doesn't have any competitive edge that's worth using anyways.

Huawei has something to say about this. Wink. Oh wait, they haven't anything to say since they don't matter anymore!

legendary
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March 16, 2022, 04:44:29 PM
#38
It is true that economic sanctions may break the backs of many countries. The country will become poor, maybe try to be self-sufficient, if it can, it will be able to survive, but it will not be able to shout at all. However, these theories may apply to Venezuela, Iran, and North Korea. But what happens when you try to play this kind of game with superpowers?

The greatest lesson of history is that no one learns from history. The same thing that is being done with Russia today is being done with Germany. Following Germany's defeat in World War I, Germany was burdened with a huge debt burden of about 269 billion gold coins. In terms of money, it is equivalent to 1 lakh tons of gold. The sole purpose of imposing this huge debt was that France and Britain wanted Germany to break the economic deadlock and not even think of war for the next hundred years. A master plan to subdue Germany without a war.

The problem is, only the weak die in the rice without hitting the hand. If you want to kill someone who has a sword in his hand, he will snatch the rice from you.

This humiliating chapter of the Treaty of Versailles provoked widespread outrage inside Germany. The Allies were to blame for Germany's economic woes at the time, and the people were agitating. When Hit-Lar finally came to power, he completely refused to repay the loan.

This debt burden and all the degrading chapters of the 1st Treaty of Versailles led to the rise of extremism in Germany. By capitalizing on which, the national hero becomes a hit-and-run offensive. Those who pushed for the treaty rather than cripple Germany seemed to invite more rather than avoid war through the treaty. Everyone knows the history of violence in the rest of Europe.

The context is not exactly the same, but how realistic is it if the West thinks that Russia will continue to weaken the economy by quietly imposing sanctions on this huge military power? It is possible to put pressure on Russia on various issues if we have economic relations. But when Russia is left completely helpless, will they apologize to the West as helpless? It is difficult to believe that Russia will do that with such a huge military force. When the Russians turn from angry to extremist against the West over Russia's problems, there may be a repeat of what happened in Germany. Which will devastate Europe.

They concede that the attempt to economically cripple Germany at the end of World War I was suicidal, which is why German leaders were tried after World War II but no attempt was made to harm the German nation. But they want to do the same thing with Russia again. It remains to be seen whether the outcome will be the same again or not.

You end by saying that crippling Germany after the war was the problem - not as an attempt to stop them at the beginning of the war. These sanctions are the only alternative that the world has without declaring war on Russia and starting world war 3. Now, how Russia will be made to pay after this war is finished will be a delicate subject that could lead to the situation you describe, but they have caused untold damage and murdered thousands of Ukrainian civilians so far, so the amount of sympathy for anything Russian is tiny right now. Sadly Putin does not have anything left to lose, he is an old man who is almost dead and will happily continue this pointless war as he tries to leave on final legacy. One of his inner circle needs to put this dirty dog in a grave so we can figure out the mess left behind.
sr. member
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March 16, 2022, 03:32:51 PM
#37
Economic Sanctions on Russia were necessary to condemned the attack on Ukraine soil  and this is righteous one act for other countries to join the battle over it. This is better hence provoking Russia more will result to World War III and this will become more nasty and more innocent lives will be at stake.
Better than what? Actually sending troops and military equipment to Ukraine? Yes but more and more sanctions is also pushing Putin to retaliate which is damaging the world economy. Prolonged sanctions and cornering Russia too much could eventually lead to something worse. I like what Gyfts that it would backfire when overused.
legendary
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March 16, 2022, 03:17:31 PM
#36
Sanctions backfire when overused. Right now, the U.S. is going a bit overboard with their sanctions and seizing assets of anyone that might be related to Russia. The obvious result is Russia will instead do business with China and perhaps India, carrying no USD assets and switching to Yuan, among others. USD doesn't have any competitive edge that's worth using anyways. High inflation, reckless sanctions, and sporadic asset forfeitures (imagine having billions frozen just because the U.S. government wants to have a tough appearance).
hero member
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March 16, 2022, 03:04:50 PM
#35
Well, Putin are using the sanctions as a tool to motivate his citizens to direct their blame and anger on the West. He already proclaimed that the sanctions are hurting the West more.. than it is hurting his country. (Oil prices skyrocketed and he is laughing all the way to the Bank as a result of that)

Also... Russia is a Communist country and they are used to poverty, so isolation from the Western cultures and luxurious goods and services, will not affect them as hard as it will other Capitalist countries.  Roll Eyes

So... yes... The West will be blamed for everything and Putin will use that to his advantage.  Roll Eyes
"Oh look comrades, we attacked an innocent nation that never fired a gun at us, and the world is treating us badly because of it!". Lol, Putin is a known liar and a dictator, anyone who still believes a single word that he says is a person who is a traitor to the whole world and should be considered as evil as well, just like Putin.

The world is just reacting the way it suppose to, I wish they did when it was about west attacking other nations too, but they do not however that doesn't mean that whats being done to Russia is not correct. Should be done others is not a way to approach your wrong doing should be not seen by others as well.
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March 16, 2022, 09:11:11 AM
#34
For a country like Russia, sanctions will only benefit, will develop its own production of goods. Already, gasoline prices in Russia are falling. And this is part of the cost of production. By continuing the policy of sanctions, we support the Russian economy and ruin our own. I think it is necessary to negotiate.

Yeah, they will build their own "blackjack and hookers". But first they will need to get out from stone age they will stuck for ages. What whole world would have next decade? AI everywhere? Russia will have their own AI, to bad it will ride on the rails only. And you need a wagon with AAA batteries to keep it working. With all respect to Russian scientists and manufacturers, they are fully dependable from the other world. And sanctions - they never help anyone.
legendary
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March 16, 2022, 07:49:49 AM
#33
I mean I wouldn’t say that no one learns from history, that is after all the whole point of history, learning from the past. That’s at least why I’ve always loved history and studied it closely. I think trying to cripple Russia with sanctions is really all we can do at this point in time. If NATO were to try and fight back at all, that would assuredly start World War III. Then China gets involved and we probably all will die , so I think we are doubt the best we can right now without starting another war.
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