sawdice the New Age of Dice - Let's play a game. - page 14.

vendetahome

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Quote from: michinzx on June 03, 2015, 12:22:47 PM

Quote from: vendetahome on June 03, 2015, 12:20:08 PM

Quote from: omahapoker on June 03, 2015, 05:54:45 AM

if next month a new dice site pops up and it's "Friday The 13th" themed site. we may know who it is.

im sick of scammers. hope no one got taken for a lot

if he is an intelligent scammer he surely wont do the same theme, as most probably he reads the comments and he wont be so suspicious

i would be suspicious of any new site that comes along in the next month or so at the very least, especially if its a dice site, the scammer might just make a new dice site with the same script.

i highly doubt that someone after scamming so hard would take risks and use the very same dice script just use different pictures

michinzx

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Quote from: vendetahome on June 03, 2015, 12:20:08 PM

Quote from: omahapoker on June 03, 2015, 05:54:45 AM

if next month a new dice site pops up and it's "Friday The 13th" themed site. we may know who it is.

im sick of scammers. hope no one got taken for a lot

if he is an intelligent scammer he surely wont do the same theme, as most probably he reads the comments and he wont be so suspicious

i would be suspicious of any new site that comes along in the next month or so at the very least, especially if its a dice site, the scammer might just make a new dice site with the same script.

vendetahome

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Quote from: omahapoker on June 03, 2015, 05:54:45 AM

if next month a new dice site pops up and it's "Friday The 13th" themed site. we may know who it is.

im sick of scammers. hope no one got taken for a lot

if he is an intelligent scammer he surely wont do the same theme, as most probably he reads the comments and he wont be so suspicious

DiamondCardz

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Quote from: keepinquiet on June 02, 2015, 05:53:55 PM

Quote from: DiamondCardz on June 02, 2015, 04:43:39 PM

Well, there is already my Overview of Popular Bitcoin Gambling Websites thread that I maintain, though I won't be able to update it too much this week. You might be wasting your efforts a little bit if you simply make a replica of that thread, as I'm soon going to update it to include the newer gambling websites that aren't currently on the list and I haven't had a chance to add yet.

Except, and not downplaying your work at all, most people do not understand just how these sites CAN cheat. You give a surface review, and rate some areas based on personal opinion. SatoshiDice has a "C+" for Trustworthiness, yet, that's not defined as to what it is. It's your general feeling about the site and how it's run.

I'm talking purely about cryptography and the code. You can have the most honest person in the world running the crappiest code, and lose your money. Or someone with piles of money and a great reputation and amazing communication and a top notch support staff, bonuses they pay out, issues that get fixed... and a really sneaky way to cheat that 99.9% of people would never notice. Or think to even look for.

See my other thread today? PocketDice, by all accounts, looks great. Except their provably fair, is not. I am in no way saying it's intentional - I am NOT saying they are cheating - but I am saying their system is not provably fair and if they wanted to, they COULD cheat.

Thats the list I want to publish. One written by a programmer first, gambler second, and a hardcore cryptography enthusiast who's also pretty decently well versed in probability and statistics. It's readily apparent we need it.

Oh of course. Many of the current implementations of provably fair gambling mechanisms, more with general casinos e.g. with roulette than dicing though, are susceptible to a lot of exploits - many of which will still produce provably fair data. I assume you've seen this amazing post on /r/Bitcoin which talks about sending AJAX partials down from the server in order to compromise a game - and quite often - still be provably fair. Unfortunately not many people even bother to verify their bets, let alone go into that much detail looking for an exploit (and exploits such as the Stalling exploit are beautiful in that people will write it off as their own fault).

When it comes to dicing sites it's much less complex than that /r/Bitcoin post due to the nature of it, but people still fall flat. They just can't be bothered to do research.

BTW I do have a disclaimer that these are, mostly, my own personal opinions. That thread doesn't really go into detail on the provably fair mechanisms of the sites, that's definitely a place you could make a thread.

omahapoker

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if next month a new dice site pops up and it's "Friday The 13th" themed site. we may know who it is.

im sick of scammers. hope no one got taken for a lot

NLNico

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DiceSites.com owner

Just FYI I am planning to do exactly that (rating provably fair implementations in transparent way) for dice sites. I really do hate the average review/overview site too since I know for a fact several sites even charge a fee for a (good) review and all reviews are very subjective anyway. That's also the reason why I started my site since it's completely based on numbers/stats and facts. The only thing I am planning to review is the provably fair implementation of all sites and truthfully I expect to have criticism for all sites, even popular ones (JD/PD and such are close to perfect tho :p but still got some small things :x)

I will probably not look at casino sites though TBH.

keepinquiet

full member

Activity: 420

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Quote from: dooglus on June 02, 2015, 10:24:08 PM

Quote from: keepinquiet on June 02, 2015, 05:53:55 PM

Thats the list I want to publish. One written by a programmer first, gambler second, and a hardcore cryptography enthusiast who's also pretty decently well versed in probability and statistics. It's readily apparent we need it.

I've been thinking the same thing. I'm not really in a position to make such a list, since people would think I'm biased. But when I see people like these sawdice jokers knocking good provably fair systems for silly reasons like "the server seed doesn't change every roll" it makes me want to...

Those people, you won't ever change their minds. Go look at the bitcoinbetgames threads. The site is a MESS. Their provably fair system is horrific, the site contradicts itself, they claim they are using sha256 hashes, but they are 40 character sha1's that don't even hash out to sha1, and they zeroed out a players balance on the "suspicion" he "hacked" them after he apparently made a few big wins, and made claims that were completely contradicted by the player's posted screenshots. I called them out on ALL of it. They misquoted me, deflected 90% of my accusations, and changed the thread title.

EVERY - SINGLE - POST - since the dev replied saying they revamped their system so they will reveal their server seed every Sunday (WHAT?!) has been supportive, encouraging, and optimistic about how great the site is.

I expect my thread/reviews will help about 5% of the people who even bother to read it. The rest, the hopeful sheep who throw their faith into a toilet of a website, will not care. I know this. But hey, if I can save a few people the grief I went through, it' worth it.

Yes, sawdice idiots who think the site is still coming back, and who deposited money despite the 100 red flags, I'm talking to you.

dooglus

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Quote from: keepinquiet on June 02, 2015, 05:53:55 PM

Thats the list I want to publish. One written by a programmer first, gambler second, and a hardcore cryptography enthusiast who's also pretty decently well versed in probability and statistics. It's readily apparent we need it.

I've been thinking the same thing. I'm not really in a position to make such a list, since people would think I'm biased. But when I see people like these sawdice jokers knocking good provably fair systems for silly reasons like "the server seed doesn't change every roll" it makes me want to...

subSTRATA

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:^)

Quote from: Ruzka on June 02, 2015, 07:40:00 PM

Quote from: actmyname on June 02, 2015, 05:55:26 PM

Any information about this now?

Yep the obvious information they have done a runner as expected and won't be coming back Undecided

People was warned early so hopefully you guys never lost to much but who knows. Anyone have an address for them and know how much they got?

someone must have made a particularly large deposit hoping to win big with the 0% edge, usually how it goes down with these scams. unfortunate, but it happens, more often than this community would like.

Ruzka

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Quote from: actmyname on June 02, 2015, 05:55:26 PM

Any information about this now?

Yep the obvious information they have done a runner as expected and won't be coming back Undecided

People was warned early so hopefully you guys never lost to much but who knows. Anyone have an address for them and know how much they got?

actmyname

copper member

Activity: 2562

Merit: 2510

Spear the bees

Any information about this now?

Quote from:

keepinquiet

full member

Activity: 420

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Quote from: DiamondCardz on June 02, 2015, 04:43:39 PM

Well, there is already my Overview of Popular Bitcoin Gambling Websites thread that I maintain, though I won't be able to update it too much this week. You might be wasting your efforts a little bit if you simply make a replica of that thread, as I'm soon going to update it to include the newer gambling websites that aren't currently on the list and I haven't had a chance to add yet.

Except, and not downplaying your work at all, most people do not understand just how these sites CAN cheat. You give a surface review, and rate some areas based on personal opinion. SatoshiDice has a "C+" for Trustworthiness, yet, that's not defined as to what it is. It's your general feeling about the site and how it's run.

I'm talking purely about cryptography and the code. You can have the most honest person in the world running the crappiest code, and lose your money. Or someone with piles of money and a great reputation and amazing communication and a top notch support staff, bonuses they pay out, issues that get fixed... and a really sneaky way to cheat that 99.9% of people would never notice. Or think to even look for.

See my other thread today? PocketDice, by all accounts, looks great. Except their provably fair, is not. I am in no way saying it's intentional - I am NOT saying they are cheating - but I am saying their system is not provably fair and if they wanted to, they COULD cheat.

Thats the list I want to publish. One written by a programmer first, gambler second, and a hardcore cryptography enthusiast who's also pretty decently well versed in probability and statistics. It's readily apparent we need it.

DiamondCardz

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Activity: 1134

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Quote from: keepinquiet on June 02, 2015, 04:30:33 PM

Quote from: WEBcreator on June 02, 2015, 03:21:09 PM

Quote from: vendetahome on June 02, 2015, 01:04:02 PM

i thought it had high potential on becoming one of the best dice sites

You are kidding right? I hope you mean this for sarcasm. There is no way a website that pirated a copyright from SAW could become one of the best site. Also that 0 % is crazy, people are building casino to get money not to be a charity so that player could gamble and win Undecided

And yet, somehow, 999dice, with it's .1% edge has supposedly made over 1000 BTC in profit, an increase of about +40%, in 3 months.

Yeah.

Seems legit.

I'm going to start soon, maybe tonight, a thread where the TRUST of casino's is reviewed. Lots of sites out there hawk the graphics and sparkly lights and the bullshit bonuses casinos' offer - no one goes hardcore into the most important aspect. Trust.

I've been doing it on the side for a while now. I think its time this community had something they could ACTUALLY trust.

Well, there is already my Overview of Popular Bitcoin Gambling Websites thread that I maintain, though I won't be able to update it too much this week. You might be wasting your efforts a little bit if you simply make a replica of that thread, as I'm soon going to update it to include the newer gambling websites that aren't currently on the list and I haven't had a chance to add yet.

keepinquiet

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Activity: 420

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Quote from: WEBcreator on June 02, 2015, 03:21:09 PM

Quote from: vendetahome on June 02, 2015, 01:04:02 PM

i thought it had high potential on becoming one of the best dice sites

You are kidding right? I hope you mean this for sarcasm. There is no way a website that pirated a copyright from SAW could become one of the best site. Also that 0 % is crazy, people are building casino to get money not to be a charity so that player could gamble and win Undecided

And yet, somehow, 999dice, with it's .1% edge has supposedly made over 1000 BTC in profit, an increase of about +40%, in 3 months.

Yeah.

Seems legit.

I'm going to start soon, maybe tonight, a thread where the TRUST of casino's is reviewed. Lots of sites out there hawk the graphics and sparkly lights and the bullshit bonuses casinos' offer - no one goes hardcore into the most important aspect. Trust.

I've been doing it on the side for a while now. I think its time this community had something they could ACTUALLY trust.

WEBcreator

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Activity: 840

Merit: 1000

Quote from: vendetahome on June 02, 2015, 01:04:02 PM

i thought it had high potential on becoming one of the best dice sites

You are kidding right? I hope you mean this for sarcasm. There is no way a website that pirated a copyright from SAW could become one of the best site. Also that 0 % is crazy, people are building casino to get money not to be a charity so that player could gamble and win Undecided

subSTRATA

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Activity: 1288

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:^)

Quote from: vendetahome on June 02, 2015, 01:04:02 PM

its sad to see that they ran away with people money, i thought it had high potential on becoming one of the best dice sites, i guess their 0 house edge was to attract deposits only

looks like the site went scam in the time i didnt check this thread, shame too. this is exactly why people demand transparency and proof of solvency from gambling sites, I guess all eyes will be on dadice now; hopefully they wont disappear, they have a nicely designed site and a nice signature campaign going, there would be more to gain in the long run for them.

vendetahome

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its sad to see that they ran away with people money, i thought it had high potential on becoming one of the best dice sites, i guess their 0 house edge was to attract deposits only

DiamondCardz

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Merit: 1118

Quote from: keepinquiet on June 02, 2015, 12:27:28 PM

Aaaaand.... it's gone.

403 No permission to access / and a 500 error.

No one completely removes the entire website "for bug fixes".

Every file is gone. Trying to hit standard links there results in a 403 error. Trying to load css files and images results in a 403 and 500 error.

Sawdice ran off with whatever it managed to steal.

And for reasons I'll never understand, here come the faithful supporters to tell me that hey, maybe it's legit, and they believe and blah blah blah.

In the words of the great Bugs Bunny... Thats's all folks!

Told you guys this would happen. It seems like they have simply wiped the entire server, you're damn right that you don't need to remove all files - or even take the website down like this at all - to perform bug fixes. Everyone called that this would happen, and it did. Whoopee-doo. Left negative feedback on the OP, let this be a lesson for anyone who got scammed by this.

keepinquiet

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Aaaaand.... it's gone.

403 No permission to access / and a 500 error.

No one completely removes the entire website "for bug fixes".

Every file is gone. Trying to hit standard links there results in a 403 error. Trying to load css files and images results in a 403 and 500 error.

Sawdice ran off with whatever it managed to steal.

And for reasons I'll never understand, here come the faithful supporters to tell me that hey, maybe it's legit, and they believe and blah blah blah.

In the words of the great Bugs Bunny... Thats's all folks!

tspacepilot

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I may write code in exchange for bitcoins.

Quote from: dooglus on June 02, 2015, 12:34:53 AM

Quote from: 98problems on June 01, 2015, 11:54:12 AM

if they were a scam i dont think they would give news about their website and problems they have

Why not? They almost never just say "OK, you were right, it was a scam". There are always vaguely plausible excuses: "a rogue employee deployed a nonce-skipper", "transaction maleability drained the cold wallets", "our site was hacked", etc. dice.ninja was the cleanest in that respect - they just disappeared one day and that was that.

I guess we shoulda seen that coming. Aren't ninjas known for silent entries and exits? :0

I'm with you on this one dooglus, this site seems pretty sketchy. I wouldn't deposit here.

Topic: sawdice the New Age of Dice - Let's play a game. - page 14. (Read 27083 times)