Scam Warning: WoodCollector - page 21.

smoothie

legendary

Activity: 2492

Merit: 1473

LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper

Quote from: qwk on January 20, 2015, 10:10:32 AM

Quote from: spazzdla on January 20, 2015, 10:05:31 AM

When I make my chainmaille jewellery is it not hand made because I didn't mine, smelt and coil the metal myself....

Nobody expects him to go out into the woods and cut down trees.
But hand-carved is definitely not the same as "I used my hands to fire up the laser".

That last part gave me a chuckle.

I asked these similar questions a few months back when he first started posting.

When I got to the point that his work looked very similar to laser engraving the discussion quickly got pushed off to Skype or email which I never got around to.

@wood collector, take a camera and video tape an entire piece you have done at the same caliber of your previous pieces. Then fast forward it in a time lapse to show you actually did it with your hands.

To me your work does look laser engraved and not hand carved. Honest opinion.

michaeladair

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 250

I'm a Web Developer: HTML, CSS, PHP, JS.

Quote from: redsn0w on January 20, 2015, 10:41:12 AM

Are you serious ? 14k dollars , this is too expensive.

90% of the cost was due to the cost of the wood. The rest was for the work hours he put on it. He could've just bought some shitty plywood but that was not what the buyer asked for.

efarah2549

member

Activity: 98

Merit: 10

Quote from: nubbins on January 20, 2015, 10:36:53 AM

Quote from: efarah2549 on January 20, 2015, 10:32:33 AM

shouldn't you have a site with some kind of portfolio hosted online?

It's right here: https://www.sansleaf.com/

Quote from: efarah2549 on January 20, 2015, 10:32:33 AM

A sudden -5 to your trade rep and "Warning: Trade with extreme caution!" hints at a little less support from the community than you lead on

In fairness, that -5 is completely due to my single negative trust rating. Default Trust is broken, kids, and this is one more reason why.

My first post in a couple years and I show off what a noob I am Roll Eyes

That sansleaf site is just a gallery, there should be a lot of different manufactures/brands there like but everywhere I look around the site is just blank or empty. Like if you hoover brands on the tool bar it shows 5 spots saying 'YOU LOGO HERE", and the Women category is just completely blank. Even when I click on sale there is nothing there. It's like there is no actual content on this site but a mash of some foreign language and a generic template.

redsn0w

legendary

Activity: 1778

Merit: 1043

#Free market

Quote from: markj113 on January 20, 2015, 07:11:01 AM

Interesting challenge, looking forward to the response Shocked

Quote from: michaeladair on January 20, 2015, 07:10:42 AM

Why question something that is good? Embarrassed

Because some people have paid up to $14,000 for the end results.

Knew nothing about wood laser engraving but have to admit the end results look very similar -

Are you serious ? 14k dollars , this is too expensive.

nubbins

legendary

Activity: 1554

Merit: 1009

Quote from: efarah2549 on January 20, 2015, 10:32:33 AM

shouldn't you have a site with some kind of portfolio hosted online?

It's right here: https://www.sansleaf.com/

Quote from: efarah2549 on January 20, 2015, 10:32:33 AM

A sudden -5 to your trade rep and "Warning: Trade with extreme caution!" hints at a little less support from the community than you lead on

In fairness, that -5 is completely due to my single negative trust rating. Default Trust is broken, kids, and this is one more reason why.

markj113

legendary

Activity: 2254

Merit: 1043

Quote from: qwk on January 20, 2015, 10:31:06 AM

Quote from: Quickseller on January 20, 2015, 10:27:04 AM

I would say that what he is doing is dishonest if he is lying about how he produces his art.

Absolutely. Just imagine me digitally printing something on canvas, then smearing some transparent varnish over it and calling that a hand-painted picture.

Quote from: Quickseller on January 20, 2015, 10:27:04 AM

I do however think there would still be a market for his work if he had previously disclosed how he makes his art. I have somewhat thought about buying a piece from him.

Sure, there's definitely a market for that. It's nice work, after all.

Quote from: Quickseller on January 20, 2015, 10:27:04 AM

Does anyone have any kind of estimate as to the price difference between what he would generally be able to sell his work for if these facts were previously disclosed verses what he actually sold for?

Somewhere on the order of 2 magnitudes, i.e. 50$ instead of $5000.

One piece sold for $14,000 -

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/the-hive-a-14000usd-bitcoin-art-piece-864472

efarah2549

member

Activity: 98

Merit: 10

Quote from: WoodCollector on January 20, 2015, 09:00:45 AM

I am not wasting any more of my time on this, when one of my clients wants something, a picture or video or something, message me. Continuing to argue with this guy is an exercise in futility.

Well you should since it's your reputation under attack here which would be bad for business. If this really is as common as you claim, and you were as legit as you would like to lead one shouldn't you have a site with some kind of portfolio hosted online? I mean I've never been in the market for anything of the art type but your entire operation seems really too fly by night to be legitimate.

Quote from: WoodCollector on January 20, 2015, 10:30:41 AM

Its really nice to see some of you standing to my defense

A sudden -5 to your trade rep and "Warning: Trade with extreme caution!" hints at a little less support from the community than you lead on

qwk

donator

Activity: 3542

Merit: 3413

Shitcoin Minimalist

Quote from: Quickseller on January 20, 2015, 10:27:04 AM

I would say that what he is doing is dishonest if he is lying about how he produces his art.

Absolutely. Just imagine me digitally printing something on canvas, then smearing some transparent varnish over it and calling that a hand-painted picture.

Quote from: Quickseller on January 20, 2015, 10:27:04 AM

I do however think there would still be a market for his work if he had previously disclosed how he makes his art. I have somewhat thought about buying a piece from him.

Sure, there's definitely a market for that. It's nice work, after all.

Quote from: Quickseller on January 20, 2015, 10:27:04 AM

Does anyone have any kind of estimate as to the price difference between what he would generally be able to sell his work for if these facts were previously disclosed verses what he actually sold for?

Somewhere on the order of 2 magnitudes, i.e. 50$ instead of $5000.

WoodCollector

full member

Activity: 168

Merit: 100

Guys, look i appreciate it, i really do, its really nice for you to stand up for me against this guy. But he is missing a little bit of information that people don't know unless they have commissioned a piece from me, and i am sure my clients will be jumping in to settle this down once they get online today. Any of my clients from here can tell you that i send them pictures along the way starting from the original sketch of the design concept (if they want to see it being done, a few wanted it to be a surprise), to carving progress, to applying the tung oil and linseed oil, to applying the finish coats of UV sealer and Spar right down to the finished product before it is posted on the forum, they know my art is authentic, as they paid for it.

Its really nice to see some of you standing to my defense, but some people will still continue to whip a dead mule long after it dies. Nubbins was not aware that my clients get this information as their piece is being created, as none of you really were unless you commissioned something, and soon once they get online this will come to rest and he will have to find some other argument to make, hopefully with someone else.

Quickseller

copper member

Activity: 2996

Merit: 2374

I would say that what he is doing is dishonest if he is lying about how he produces his art. I am fairly confident that his art would probably not be sold for as much or would sell as frequently.

I do however think there would still be a market for his work if he had previously disclosed how he makes his art. I have somewhat thought about buying a piece from him.

Does anyone have any kind of estimate as to the price difference between what he would generally be able to sell his work for if these facts were previously disclosed verses what he actually sold for?

nubbins

legendary

Activity: 1554

Merit: 1009

The hand-carved detail is "astonishing", but not as astonishing as the massive discrepancy in width between the two verticals.

Amazing that someone who can carve as well as a laser cutter is unable to use a saw properly.

qwk

donator

Activity: 3542

Merit: 3413

Shitcoin Minimalist

Quote from: nubbins on January 20, 2015, 10:16:32 AM

WC's response? "Thanks". Not "Oh, it was actually done with a laser, not carved."
The point is NOT how he makes the pieces, but how he represents them as being made.
If he was selling "beautiful hand-lacquered and polished laser-cut wooden bitcoin pieces", this thread would not exist.

This sums it up nicely.

If he finds people who are willing to pay serious money for his laser-craft-work, no issue.
If he finds people who pay for hand-carved but receive laser-craft, it's scam.

spazzdla

legendary

Activity: 1722

Merit: 1000

Quote from: qwk on January 20, 2015, 10:13:04 AM

Quote from: spazzdla on January 20, 2015, 10:10:30 AM

If he carves out everything and uses a machine for the fine details is it not hand made then?

Hand-made, partially. Hand-carved, no.

Quote from: spazzdla on January 20, 2015, 10:10:30 AM

If a machine cuts out the rough shape and he does the rest is it not hand made then?

Hand-made, partially. Hand-carved, yes.
It's that easy, you do the carving part by hand, it's hand-carved. Duh! Roll Eyes

Alright lets say it's hand made and mostly carved + machine for the fine details. He has always delivered and great product now we are going to attack his reputation because he is exaggerating.. Sounds kind of like a bored soccer mom looking for someone to harass... :S

Technically he is not lying.. he did carve some by hand. Some of it was made by hand thus it was hand made..

nubbins

legendary

Activity: 1554

Merit: 1009

Quote from: spazzdla on January 20, 2015, 10:10:30 AM

Quote from: shipitbuddy on January 20, 2015, 10:08:21 AM

I will be taking bets , who says that he will upload the video and who say's he wont.

Nah for serious I'm looking foward to see if this is really hand made something I doubt.

What is "hand made". If he carves out everything and uses a machine for the fine details is it not hand made then? If a machine cuts out the rough shape and he does the rest is it not hand made then?

The problem is that he has gone out of his way to hide his use of a machine, while at the same time letting people think it's done completely by hand.

He exclusively uses the word "carve" to describe his process, as you can see here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=868931.0;all

Here's a buyer saying "The hand-carved detail is astonishing": https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.9777724

WC's response? "Thanks". Not "Oh, it was actually done with a laser, not carved."

The point is NOT how he makes the pieces, but how he represents them as being made.

If he was selling "beautiful hand-lacquered and polished laser-cut wooden bitcoin pieces", this thread would not exist.

qwk

donator

Activity: 3542

Merit: 3413

Shitcoin Minimalist

Quote from: spazzdla on January 20, 2015, 10:10:30 AM

If he carves out everything and uses a machine for the fine details is it not hand made then?

Hand-made, partially. Hand-carved, no.

Quote from: spazzdla on January 20, 2015, 10:10:30 AM

If a machine cuts out the rough shape and he does the rest is it not hand made then?

Hand-made, partially. Hand-carved, yes.
It's that easy, you do the carving part by hand, it's hand-carved. Duh! Roll Eyes

spazzdla

legendary

Activity: 1722

Merit: 1000

Quote from: qwk on January 20, 2015, 10:10:32 AM

Quote from: spazzdla on January 20, 2015, 10:05:31 AM

When I make my chainmaille jewellery is it not hand made because I didn't mine, smelt and coil the metal myself....

Nobody expects him to go out into the woods and cut down trees.
But hand-carved is definitely not the same as "I used my hands to fire up the laser".

Do you expect me to coil the metal by hand? Is it no longer hand made because I used a drill to coil the metal?

What if I use a machine to open half the rings and close the other half is it not hand made now?

qwk

donator

Activity: 3542

Merit: 3413

Shitcoin Minimalist

Quote from: spazzdla on January 20, 2015, 10:05:31 AM

When I make my chainmaille jewellery is it not hand made because I didn't mine, smelt and coil the metal myself....

Nobody expects him to go out into the woods and cut down trees.
But hand-carved is definitely not the same as "I used my hands to fire up the laser".

spazzdla

legendary

Activity: 1722

Merit: 1000

Quote from: shipitbuddy on January 20, 2015, 10:08:21 AM

I will be taking bets , who says that he will upload the video and who say's he wont.

Nah for serious I'm looking foward to see if this is really hand made something I doubt.

What is "hand made". If he carves out everything and uses a machine for the fine details is it not hand made then? If a machine cuts out the rough shape and he does the rest is it not hand made then?

nubbins

legendary

Activity: 1554

Merit: 1009

Quote from: spazzdla on January 20, 2015, 10:05:31 AM

Is this thread serious.....

When I make my chainmaille jewellery is it not hand made because I didn't mine, smelt and coil the metal myself....

Imperfect analogy. Do you link the maille by hand, or do you just load the design into a machine that links it for you?

Seriously, look at the white lines. Did he even draw the outline with a pencil before he started cutting, or did he freehand the whole thing?

If I cut a piece of wood that poorly, my dignity and self-respect would prevent me from showing it to people.

shipitbuddy

full member

Activity: 140

Merit: 100

***THIS ACCOUNT IS NO LONGER ACTIVE***

I will be taking bets , who says that he will upload the video and who say's he wont.

Nah for serious I'm looking foward to see if this is really hand made something I doubt.

Topic: Scam Warning: WoodCollector - page 21. (Read 29102 times)