Topic: Seasteading - page 3. (Read 26889 times)

Congratulations! You got away from the bank robbers. I bet you convinced them that there were bigger and better profits working with Elwar on Seasteading in Panama.

 

follow your own advice. and i cant wait to not hear from you again

but until then. im just waiting for you to go full cultist and say stupid things like the typical script of
'my birth certified name is a state construct/corporation given by government'

of something stupidly similar.. then i know 100% you have fallen deep into the cult

Lol.

Next time you are at the bank, and 5 bank robbers with guns come in and say, "Get down on the floor or we will open fire," don't believe them. There are a whole bunch of reasons why they can't or won't open fire. Just go on with your business as though everything is normal, and nothing out of the ordinary is happening. If you happen live, you can write it up in the forum where their flaws were in their thinking.

badecker

i know he said he hasnt decided yet. and that the friggen point..
before thi he was saying how he has a prototype and a 3rd scale model and the 3d renders ready to print

which if all was true then such renders would already include a drain or a chimney..
so yea im pointing out by him not deciding how to treat the sewerage then he is no where near production

if you read my rebuttles all the way back to the start of this topic you will see that it has been the same thing over and over again
elwar saying they ready to build and read to launch. but then comes back later saying some excuse why they havnt.

even just the most simplist of questions about sewerage treatment seems to get missed by someone that calls himself and appears to have self appointed the title of COO

maybe if you done some research about a few things and maybe start seeing flaws in peoples plans. you would question them and either help them if you feel they are on a good moral path and deserve help. or remain critical of them if they seem too interested in the investment money and free vacations more so than the project itself.
and in this case elwar doesnt seem to be the right person for the COO so i already told him who should be more involved

on other things i have seen people on the right path and have the right desires and interests and i have helped them out.

lets just wait for elwar scenario to play out
the typical 'no this was not my project i was just a volunteer'

Regarding the TP toilet issue, your successes must have been by accident. Why? Because you couldn't even figure out that Elwar was telling you that they hadn't decided on the final option, yet, and that they were still inventing a few things, and, in a very nice way, that their internal thinking and operations weren't any of your business.

But there you go. Push, push, push... franky1 style.

Guess what. It still isn't any of your business. Be happy that Elwar told you as much as he did. He's probably happy he found out how pushy you are before he invited you to his operation in Panama.

If you had read and used your head for something besides a hair rack - now don't tell us you're bald - you would have realized that a drain pipe and a chimney are the same thing, only in opposite directions.

Anybody can learn to program. Some of us might be able to learn it as well as you. But most of the rest of us know how to treat people decently, especially people who have done as much as Elwar. Do you think he is lying when you watch his escape-from-Thailand videos? If you do, you still haven't figured out the difference between an actor and somebody who is a scared, cool customer.

That Thailand escape alone is probably bigger than all your successes combined.

badecker i have many successes in life.
i dont promote it due to no need to promote it here

but when asking about what toilet is in the final prototype and the answer is just a random list of possible options which each option would make a change to the outer shell a nessessity. it reveals they are not near even building the outer shell let alone putting in the internals

i already called elwar out on his supposed 10 year seasteading progress,, which has now flipped in to him trying to distance himself from the other projects and say how those projects were not intended to be the project he has been obsessing about for a decade.

just like i called you out on your lack of knowledge about the hidden details of a scenario you handed me. yet you yourself did not understand the scenario when you did so.
so how about you learn what went on behind the 'lalala' of the scenario you kept pressing. and try not to act like you have amnesia and cant remember it. you have been prompted many times to research and answer

and if elwar was to want to be honest and open about a project then it might be worth, if he wanted to retain the COO position to actually research what operations the project is doing.
and the easiest question would be
does the prototype 3d render of the outer shell have a drain pipe, a outer storage door or a chimney

as for the comparison to tesla
before even doing a 'clay' model of the asthetics of a car/truck. tesla would have already calculated the weight of the vehicle to work out the best dimensions of the wheelbase, chassis, if the battery should be front centre or rear which affects the height/space of luggage/passenger area. all of which then form the bases of which shape vehicle to mold
its not like they mold a vehicle and then try to fit everything in afterwards done just by guess work

franky1 is so funny. You give him an answer, and he doesn't accept it. It's like he is trying to talk you into saying that you don't know what you are doing.

I think what he is really saying, is that he ran into some trouble with his own dealings. And then, instead of pushing on to the next step, he gave up. And it simply bugs the heck out of him to see someone else who is a fighter like he isn't.

I'm sure you are just on the edge of your seat to see our progress in the coming months. As we actually do things instead of talk about them.

I'd welcome you down to come see our progress but...not so much.

but you havnt answered. all you said was possible options
EG
offering a service to take the black waste off
having a maid remove the ash periodically
using an anaerobic process

then you say your goal (thus not yet achieved) is to have (again future tense) experts (thus not yet sure yourself)
which all reveals your not even ready.

yet you kept saying things will be done in next few months and ramping up production to make them in days
yet, from what i see now. your not even at prototype stage because you havnt worked out if you want a drainage pipe or a furnace chimney

and as for
just shows how little you know about some countries law about dumping waste so close to shore.
for instance if your seen dumping waste within 3nm of USA. you'll get fined by the EPA

so goodluck with finding experts but it has been obvious for a while now. you still have a lot of work to do.
and yes there is a little hint above about the legal stuff.

it kinda seems your attentions more wish to seek the 'extra services' of costly maids and waste removals you want to charge ontop the time share fee. i understand the business benefit/profitability of such thoughts. but i feel your motives are more rubbing your hands together at the extra income streams you can achieve for holiday home rentals rather than a true seastead LIVING/HOME lifestyle

and lastly.
self governing (making own laws/rules) is not something you can do when your close to shore like your latest project is trialling.
there is 'self policing' but thats more of just a neighbourhood watch thing. as your still limited to not being able to shoot someone without it causing a bit of legal issue from the mainland law

but it has been fun seeing you side step questions but pretend to answer them
maybe come back when you have final decision answers and not al the ifs and maybes and dreams
in otherwords. finalise what your want in the pod. design it accordingly. and also look for what target market you are actually after. because right now you say its seastead living, but subtly hinting at the vacation market of wanted to be the ritz penthouses of the sea. atleast decide a path and what such user experience is expected to have

Same thing happened to me way back. My own fault, I guess... regarding franky1, "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me."

But, this is a forum, and franky1 loves to forumize people.

Ok then. Sorry I answered your question. That is about what I expected.

Don't worry. Lesson learned.

i know your just copy and pasting stuff from a forum..
but here is the problem your not realising

yo have said that your team has made a 1 third scale model and has made a 3d render ready to use on a 3d printer

but if that was the case then you would have already have decided which bathroom facility function to use because for instance if its compost. then you have to measure in onboard storage to keep it and then 'bale' it up to than hand carry off the pod to take back to shore.
if its using a sewerage treatment then you need to have measured in the area for the treatment equipment and then how to handle the matter afterwards
if its just to deposit into the ocean then you also need to have measured into the 3d render a friggen drain pipe for the matter to escape from the pod rather than be stored onboard.

in short its things like sewerage management which if not actually answered about a final design just goes to prove you cant even build the outershell of the pod as you dont even know the dimensions and if it requires a store or drain

it things like desalination and sewerage treatment that then factors in how much roof space is required for solar panels to then power these pieces of equipment
which can then affect the ultimate design
yep years ago you were promoting these micronations self governing seastead village that anyone can moor to and when asked about the growing food which you said is possible it brought up the question of if the roof has a garden then where do the solar panels go..

you are very very quick to sell the dream and pretend its all panned out and all ready to just make. and then ask for deposits.. but when actually asked you then become vague about 'possible options'

again how can you even be ready to 3d print the outer shell if you dont even know if the dimensions are there to store the waste for x days/weeks/months or know how to get it out without tracking it across the internal living area (not happy holiday experience to have to do that). or if the 3d render needs a drain hole in the pre-design render and positioned in the area of where the bathroom would be

..
you keep trying to sell the dream but become vague about how far even a prototype /final design is

i dont need to be an expert on seastead things, but i now enough about how businesses work and how R&D works to know enough and when you become vague or 'optional' about certain factors which do affect overall design. it reveals that your either not ready or not researched enough which makes it show that maybe your not really the person who should be calling himself a COO as you dont seem to know much of the operations

i could have gonna on and knitpicked about how many hours do the solar panels generate to have even needed the blue generator in a true living scenario of 24hour living 7days a week. because even things like do people want to be hearing a generator churning over al night because the solar can nly power the daytime functions.

i could have gone on about many things. again if the 3d render of latest project is just to drain it out upon flush because you have a drainpipe in the render. what about the forest landsteading. do people want poop raining down on the bottom step/ground level

but hey if your not even ready to finalise the toilet facilities then just shows how unready you are even after your own words of over a decade of being in that industry

oh and before saying anything foolish like 'seasteaders are used to the campervan experience of trecking a wate container through their living area' .. um your offering a pricepoint of a ritz penthouse hotel with butler/maid service where its not expected for people to have to scrub their own toilet. but expecting people to be ok with a campervan lifestyle for that price.
which shows you have not even done the research on customer expectations for the price you have alloted
yea humans on vacation for $100 a week can cope with campervan lifestyle. but $10k a week.. they expect the ritz experience

have a nice day

Excellent, it looks like we all want to talk about toilets on boats.

Here are just a few of the options:
Composting toilet
Marine toilet
Incinerating toilet
Anaerobic digester
Urine diverting toilet

Here is a quick primer for seasteading and the #2 question everyone always asks: Seasteading. Where does the poop go?

Composting toilet
This is a very simple solution which can easily be used on a seapod.
Here are our friends the Wynns explaining the intricacies of their composting toilet they had on their RV which they then installed in their boat.
https://www.gonewiththewynns.com/compost-toilet-big-questions
The downside to the composting toilet is that the user experience is not seamless. Good for people living there long term but we do not want people coming to visit for vacation learning a new toilet procedure using coconut husk or sawdust.
There are certainly a lot of different composting toilets, our storage is a few meters below the toilet so we have the benefit of the waste being far below the toilet which helps with smell.

Marine toilet
This is what we had on the first seastead. On that one we chose to use fresh water to flush but on our boats we used salt water. In Thailand all of the boats just flush out to sea so that's what we did as well. Our boat didn't even have a waste tank.
Here in Panama we will not be letting anything into the water so we will have a black water tank (even though the current boats in the marina and anchorage do not follow any sort of clean waste procedure). We will have a service for pumping out peoples' black water tanks. Fairly simple, the technology has been around and proven for decades.
The upside of these toilets is the user experience is the same as being at home. The downside being the need to pay for a service to come pump out your black water.

Incinerating toilet
There are several different types of incinerating toilets, the one we are looking at has the same user experience with a hose that runs down to the incinerator. You just dump the ash every couple of months.
We are leaning toward this one.
The upside is that the user experience is the same as a marine toilet. There is no need for pumping out the black water and for vacationers the maid can just empty the ash periodically.
The downside is the cost and the energy usage. Fortunately here in Panama natural gas is cheap so using a natural gas incinerator may keep the price down for energy usage.

Anaerobic digester
Seasteader, Jeff Frusha, just started his company in Texas creating anaerobic digesters which converts poop into biogas. He has been pushing this for years on the seasteading forums. I have been in contact with him and he is open to adapting his design for the space we have on the seapod.
Here is an explanation of how to build a bio digester.
http://www.solarcities.eu/education/388

Urine diverting toilet
Though not a type of waste disposal system, this can be used with any of the above systems. It helps to separate the urine from the poop. The key being that the mixing of the urine and poop creates the toxicity while poop alone will break down in hours on its own, urine on its own is fairly sterile. Though you need to factor in the prescription drugs that people take along with caffeine and other things so the waste cannot be used for anything useful unless you know that the people living there are not ingesting chemicals that would harm the plants or other things you may use the compost for.


While this is all fascinating stuff, our goal is to have experts in each field focus on these things for us. We will likely buy off the shelf products for our first few models as we use what works as much as possible due to the amount of custom engineering needed for everything else. So our focus is on the incinerating toilet first until we have an expert in toilet technology come down to our incubator to design something specific to our design. There is a $4k incinerating toilet that we will buy for the first model that can hose the waste down into the storage area where the incinerator will sit.

We have promised the Panama government that we will not dump any waste into the sea. So, just like almost every other thing here in Panama, we are not following what the locals actually do and we are going above and beyond what most of the world does.

The fish do not get the benefits of our waste thanks to peoples' feelings.

again to address the sewerage waste you keep trying to avoid.
its not about what type of seat a person sits on in a bathroom. i have repeatedly been asking you about dealing with sewerage

do you even know why many Kohs around thailand actually ship in fresh water and ship out sewerage. rather then suck up seawater nearby and desalinate. and drain off sewerage into the sea locally

there are many reasons i know of and can think of. but its strange how you keep avoiding the challenge to answer it
and by the way, before you knee jerk react. actually try to ask your team the question
and  little hint. cruise ships actually have sewerage treatment equipment onboard. and for many countries there are actual rules around what can be offloaded close to the coast(you definitely will want to research that)
and um.. a little hint about the land pods in the forest.. just dumping waste on the ground below.. not good to see it raining faeces and having a pile of faeces at the bottom step people have to walk through to climb up to the pod.
especially if your planning $10k a week time-leasing

if you actually thought about the environment and the user experience of what they need to know/do when they have a pod and what they possibly will be met with as the step into the pod. you would have thought about all this.

but you thinking its just about what type of thing someone sits on as being your answer. your fooling yourself

as for the tesla truck
they actually made a working prototype first. yea it may have failed the bulletproof glass test. but atleast they had a lifesize prototype first of all.

And the dumping of radioactive waste from lots of country's and chemical company's cheap way of disposing its toxics or paper producers bleach, list goes on

The issue is all the Fukushima radioactive water the Japs are dumping into the ocean.

In times like this seasteading seems like the way to go, self imposed quarantine. Toilet is not really a issue, imagine when a whale drops its load, all sorts of organism depend on it, like on land the dung beetle. Soaps, shampoo washing detergent is issue but there are options available.

Edit:
Whale poonado
https://youtu.be/r4JJWuHmqPs?t=11

why is https://discuss.seasteading.org/ down?

Have you looked into biodigesters for sewage processing? IMO it would be a good solution to your disposal issues. It essentially has multiple chambers and allows bacteria to break down the waste into less harmful components which can then safely be released into the ocean with minimal impact to the surrounding water quality. It is also a good source of methane which can be used as fuel. There are lots of great examples of builds on youtube.

^^^ That's honorable of you, talking to franky1 that way. He IS pretty smart, you know. But that's the trouble with most of us. We know something about one subject, and suddenly we think we know more than we do about all kinds of other subjects. And then we really get going and extrapolate about other people's projects, this way and that.

franky1's probably a great guy. He simply doesn't have experience where he doesn't have experience. But he thinks that he can extend his experience to projects where it just doesn't work his way.

I expect he will wake up sometime, and will become a real benefit to us all, and particularly to those around him in his life.