Topic: Seasteading - page 6. (Read 26917 times)

and there it is history
starting websites advertising, bank accounts, ICO's, tokens, fundraising.
just proves that was elwars  historical plans. money money money

and nice back track how your now saying the thailand pod was not some part of advertising seasteads sales pitch. but was a already in the works space launch. now saying intended only as pods for workers wanting to work on a space launch project.. hmm.. yet you been advertising it as part of your seasteading projects.

and yes that $10m floating hotel.. only a couple dozen rooms but wanting thousands of investors. promising them rooms for the night. .. can you even basic math that.
especially how you wanted them rooms also available for your project crew as a HQ. meaning less 'guest' rooms available. cold you even basic maths that back then. or was the fake promise worth more to you financially than to actually articulate the problems you'd have if people actually wanted to get what you promised

come on lets use elwar maths
say 5 rooms spare for guests. thats less than 10k nights spread over 5 rooms over 5 years. where each guest wants 1 night only. yep allowed only 1 night. and may have to wait upto 5 years
you want people to invest $1k for 1 night each... and may not even see a night on the boat for upto 5 years
.. oh and thats best case numbers.
needing 10,000 investors and no gaps inbetween where by the staff, cleaning lady and repair guy dont have any delays

...
and again back tracking the promises of the creating a 'self governing cities'
oh and the whole 12nm.. ha ha ha
ill draw it again
______|     O      |______  12nm line
            \ ~~~~ /
________\____/________ land line
(hint. building at 12mn then has a overlap(~) because the 'self governing cities' 12nm overlaps(~) thailands 12nm)
meaning need to be 25nm away to have no overlap(~) and atleast 1nm gap between to have a buffer
heck im not even an expert. nor lawyer but i seen that problem coming up as soon as i heard the distance it was being built at.
it took me 10 seconds of basic maths and no costs to work that one out(and you said you seeked out experts and lawyers who said it was fine)

just like i see your lack of addressing the sanitation problems
i know your more into the desires of real estate profits. you need to really think more about environmental impact of such as that is starting to become the priority number one stumbling block of getting things greenlighted.
for years i have tried to question you on that and you have always failed the test of explanation.

yea you are great at buzzwords and gimmicks to sound good. making it sound like everything is planned. but end results show the opposite.
have you even looked at the hint i gave you about the wood through the forest poke
or are you still just concentrating on getting mailing lists of people wanting to throw money at you
seems thats all you want to highlight mostly. the money side

^^^ Thanks for the history and update, Elawr.     

The generator was necessary for running the water pumps that we used to pump the water out of the spar after lowering it to put the platform on top. We used it for some welding as well and decided to keep it there as a backup generator.

You like to mix the 3 different projects I've been involved in to somehow be one project. I worked with a couple of guys about 6 years ago on a project called Marinea. The plan for that was initially to build a large concrete seastead in the Bahamas, we spent about a year planning the design and working on things like "how do we get water, Internet, electricity, food, waste disposal, etc."...typical stuff you discuss when talking about seasteading. We sent letters to some people in government of the Bahamas (by "we", I don't mean we all sat there writing a document). The architect and construction guy had a disagreement with the marketing guy who was in charge so the marketing guy shifted focus to buying a floating hotel that he had been researching for years (he sent his brother down to Florida to inspect it, I saw it once as I drove by but never got on it). With all of the SEC laws that prevent people from raising money, the strategy for raising funds to buy the boat was through some sort of membership deal. Pay $100 for membership and you get some sort of benefits at the hotel (free night, etc.). The marketing guy had big dreams that we'd get tens of thousands of people joining up. Once we were ready to move forward on it I posted a couple of times about the idea (which Franky immediately attacked). I was the only one in that project that actually put money into it. I did not have a huge amount of money but I put $10k toward the project so we could get the website going and pay for things like establishing a company, opening a bank account, paying for some professional renderings of our final design, etc.
They only had about 5 people buy membership which were all refunded after we realized we would not raise the $10 million or so needed to make things work.

Marinea is still trying to exist but it's just one guy and his wife with the dream of buying that floating hotel.

Taking the lessons learned from that experience I moved on to the more prominent project from the Seasteading Institute of Blue Frontiers. I flew to Tahiti to meet everyone involved at their conference. There were about 100 people at the conference and there was a great energy of people wanting to make this happen. So I jumped into that project as a volunteer focusing on blockchain solutions for the seastead. With all of the very intelligent people involved and the Memorandum of Understanding with French Polynesia I was confident that this project would actually happen after 10 years of seastead talk. Fortunately at that time the bitcoin price was going up to $20k and I no longer needed to work at my day job and I was able to retire thanks to bitcoin. I did invest about a quarter million into Blue Frontiers but was only one of several major investors. My role in that company was as a volunteer because I wanted it to work out and put my money where my mouth was. They spent about 10 months working on the funding strategy working with lawyers and ICO companies, they had a call with Vitalik, they were spending a lot of money so they had a lot of high profile individuals involved trying to figure out the whole situation of building in French Polynesia while trying to raise money from every nation in the world, including the US and its draconian laws. Their final solution was a token called Varyon which would be a token used as payment for anything related to Blue Frontiers (an Ethererum smart contract), Blue Frontiers would be in charge of the sea zone so this would allow them to charge for use of the sea zone. I promoted Varyon as much as I could as one of hundreds of people promoting it (everyone else was getting paid to do so, I did it out of passion for the project).
The ICO went live as bitcoin was crashing and the ICO bubble had popped. Part of the smart contract included a signed contract that refunded all of the money if they did not reach X number of varyon purchased. They raised almost a million dollars but fell short of the goal by about $50k (not many people knew about the refund until it was too late). All of the money was refunded (except us initial investors who were left with nothing).

Blue Frontiers still has the occasional meeting and I believe they are still trying to find a country that will give them a sea zone, but they are likely out of money by now.

As I was wrapping things up with Blue Frontiers I met this german aeronautical engineer in Bangok (Rudiger). He had already begun working on his floating platform and explained that his ultimate goal is to build a launch loop for launching payloads into space. I left Tahiti and went to see what he was working on in Thailand. He had the spar and platform being built by two separate companies. The spar was being built by a steel company that was used to building large pontoons for gold mining rigs. The platform was being built by a french boat builder who specialized in large party catamarans.
I arrived in Thailand and stayed on Rudiger's yacht as we discussed seasteading and the idea that if he wants to build a launch loop in middle of the ocean he'll need a full city of floating homes for the workers as well as supporting businesses and structures, etc. He liked that he would be able to go back to his home town and work on his superconductors while my girlfriend and I stayed on the seastead (which was initially meant just as a watch tower for his launch prototype). He thought it would be a good idea to replicate these things and sell them. His goal not being to make any money off of them (he's Vladmir club wealthy), but to get things built up so he can have homes for the workers of the launch loop. I volunteered to help, my gf speaks Thai and English so she was useful in translating with the steel workers. We would visit the sites when he was off working on his superconductor experiments and give him status reports. I brought my full SCUBA gear and he had plenty of his own so we would go diving at the site and sailing, I began some biorock experiments because he wanted to build large structures in the water and we felt that biorock was a viable option as the price of solar comes down. He paid for the full build of the platform and spar. I would catch a check here and there as he was letting me stay on his boat but it was Thailand so I was hardly spending any money (fortunately since the bitcoin price had dipped). I put Rudiger in contact with everyone he needed to talk to through my contacts with Ocean Builders and the Seasteading Institute. After having seen so many crypto projects get started promising the world only to never deliver I stressed that we should not advertise the sale of any of our seasteads until we had one in the water. We were excited about the project as it moved forward but kept it under wraps publicly because we did not want to promise something only for the thing to fail and disappoint a lot of people (like with Blue Frontiers). We also didn't want to waste money on advertising and marketing (avoiding all of the failures of Blue Frontiers) and lawyers and endless money pit meetings, etc. We did contact a few lawyers in Thailand and spoke to the harbor master about what we were doing. Each lawyer told us that because what we were doing was 12nm out Thailand had no say in it. The harbor master didn't want to be bothered by it (it didn't fit into any category he knew how to deal with). So our plan was to prove ourselves to Thailand by building the first structure then getting 20 orders to show Thailand that we would be bringing money to their country. We planned on taking a 1% deposit keeping the first 20 homes at or below the cost to build them. We brought out a group of people from Blue Frontiers who were likely customers to show them the launch of the seastead. Unfortunately the biggest storm in 60 years hit on the week we planned to launch so we had to postpone (still not going public). Joe Quirk brought a camera crew for the event and got plenty of good footage for his videos. Once we got it in the water I started posting blogs and contacting friendly independent media (I had been talking to Reason about it for a while and we've been talking to a journalist at Wired who is still working with us). I posted on bitcointalk but of course Franky attacked me talking about Blue Frontiers and Marinea and how we don't know what solar panels are and have no idea that there are off the shelf water makers that our boat manufacturer has been installing on boats for years.
That venture left me down about $100k worth of stuff in Thailand (my boat, vehicle, all of my possessions on the seastead, etc.).

So now we move forward in Panama. At this point I am more than a volunteer. I am now one of the founders along with our CEO that joined us to move forward on the business side. We are still only taking deposits toward peoples' homes. Refundable $100 deposit which will require 20% deposit when we begin building the customer's actual home (likely to take place this summer). We already have a few people that have reserved their SeaPods. Each of the founders plans on buying one, we have the eco resort guy and we've actually not even started advertising that we are taking deposits yet outside of Anarchapulco and silently updating our website. I have an e-mail list of about 1000 people who have expressed interest on the website that I have not updated yet. We're all still getting back from travel before we begin letting them know. We are busy setting up our factory (the building material just arrived last week). The concrete has been poured for the footings and we pour the floor next week. Our 3D printer has been delayed but we will finally get that in about a month (we've been waiting for that for a while to get moving forward). The coronavirus has delayed our rolling machine and crane for the factory but we're hoping they all get here around the beginning of April (hopefully the factory is finished by then).

Ocean Builders' ultimate goal is a space launch, it always has been. That's why in Thailand I knew that when they were charging us with trying to create a new nation they would not find any evidence of it because that was never the goal. Sure, as a libertarian I am in it for the ability to live somewhere away from territorial law, but as I have stated many times, a seastead nation makes about as much sense as a bitcoin bank. It seems people who supposedly understand Bitcoin don't even grasp that concept.

We're moving forward, all with our own money. We don't actually need investors and Rudiger does not want any (until he's built his small scale launch loop prototype). We've spent around half a million of our own money so far moving this project forward in Panama. Workers are happy, Panama is happy, we are going to make sure our customers get the most awesome homes they've ever seen. If the bitcoin price hits $40k or higher...this project is going to be crazy funded (we are all bitcoin hodlers).

Not sure what to tell ya, we're going to make it happen. You'll just have to sit back and witness history being made from behind your computer screen.

The casinos on ships are not in the countries. The ships might be registered with a country. But when they do their casino activities, they do it outside of the 12-mile limit, so that they are in international waters.

Many governments want to legalize international waters. The UN has been trying to do this for years. The point is that legal anywhere is important only when there is military or police strength to uphold and enforce the legal activity.

Might doesn't always make what is right, but it always makes what exists.

I just found out about it. I heard a long time ago about casino ships in countries where casinos are prohibited, but I hear about accommodation for the first time. If you do this, you need to carefully consider where to get food, where to take out the garbage, etc. But the idea is good!

lawsuits... hmm.. thai government want him..
trouble.. the military confiscated the pod

as for living free.. yea he promoted himself as one thing to get money from people but without any real understanding of what hewas promising to offer and from the looks of it no intention to actually offer it.

the difference between a walmart worker and elwar is that people know what they are getting for their money. they see a price they go to the checkout and they pay for it.  as for what elwar pretends of offer. people dont get what they are offered, all while he spends their money on vacations.

its called lack of morals and ethics

i personally travel alot. and i do ETHICAL business.. i am even mindful to not promote my business dealings on this forum because i have the ability to actually not want to promote stuff.
my business dealings are legit and ethical.. i know you dont understand those concepts. but it might help you to try learning them.

i am not jealous or envious. i am more of the kind of person that gets pissed off with unethical scammers and morons. pissed off with people who have no clue what they are on about.. yep people like you that has no clue about hw the real law works and has no real clue about religion. but you constantly promote your warped views

no one is or should be jealous or envious of unethical people.

i personally have done some projects about housing real estate, business startups, environmental stuff.. and when i came across elwars project years ago  was interested. but then when i seen all the holes and flaws and crap. i soon learned that elwar was not that interested in what he was promoting he was just interested in the finances and the lifestyle he can live from sch unethical crap.

this aint to do with law or justice. this is about human caring, morals and ethics.. however elwar has also got himself into some legal problems too. so that cant be ignored

anyway i do not find it strange how you follow and fanboy over unethical people. so dont be surprised by me calling them type of people out

How in the world dense are you? People work at Walmart for money. Why? Because they aren't smart enough to "grab" their money in a different way. You don't think that they are there because they like it, do you?

Why not Elwar working in a private business that he isn't telling us that he even has? Formally we don't know that he is working in a private business. If it's public, why don't you show us the paperwork from a government that shows he is actively in a public business? If he is a crook, why don't you show the lawsuits or court judgements against him? All you do is blab.

What about you and me? Are you on some form of money grab by talking about other people being on a money grab? Maybe you are filthy rich and don't care to do this. I sure could use a little more money. But my private info is private. And you can guess all day long about what my private stuff is. But you really should have something legitimate to back it up, shouldn't you.

If Elwar is working a public business, he will have his shingle out. So what? Lots of people are doing this. Lots of people have made mistakes. Some have paid for their mistakes; others haven't paid. In fact, the whole banking industry is ripping everybody off through inflation and creations of new money that they call loans all the time. But you want to pick on poor, little Elwar.

Are you jealous of Elwar that he lived in freedom for a short time in international waters? Are you jealous of him that he was able to escape a whole load of Thailand government pirates who came after him? Are you envious that he travels? Do you think he feels good that his operations fell through, and that he barely escaped with his life?

I feel kinda sorry for you. You seem to be tied to a bitter life of perpetual slavery. Over in the country of Western Sahara, the informal slaves over their have been in bondage to their masters' houses for generations. They don't even know that there is anything else other than slavery. That's how deeply it is embedded in them. But you, at least, can see the light at the end of the tunnel.

You, at least, have an inkling that there is freedom available. You sorta know what it looks like. Why don't you become free rather than picking on other people who are free? You are so funny. You pick on the freedom of other people, yet use your freedom to remain in bondage. Get a life!

and your missing the point. for years. elwar has been on a money grabbing effort.. which affects other people. so elwars private life has nothing to do with anything. its what he is pubicly doing and proposing and trying to show off as being involved an and then retracting later and pretending no promises were made.

elwar is following similar steps as CSW pretending to be one thing. but never delivering but then keepp on trying to raise money


i have nothing against TRUE pioneers of TRUE seastead projects.
but greedy money grabbing snake water salesmen i have something against

You are missing Elwar's point. His involvement has to do with not being involved formally. This means, that as far as he will say, and that as far as anybody in the public knows, he isn't involved. What he does in private is for him and his privacy to know.

what i saw was grating and a fuel powered blue generator
but it was pretty interesting in another youtube video how you tried to denounce how involved you were by saying it never intended to be  seastead/micronation. it wasnt your project and how you were just a guineapig couple who volunteerd to stay there now and again

anyway. all i see is you now doing it all over again promising these glamorous pods as homes. but then i see you later retract statements and say nah they just nature watching posts for people to hire for the day as they were never intended to meet 'living' standards

i know you cant see the wood through the trees or you would not even even done concept art of your CGI pods in the middle of a tight wooded area. literally how you gonna gets all that stuff between the trees.
go on retract statements of middle of woodland amungst nature and say how its suddenly only gonna be at the edge of wildlife looking in

i know all your interested in is making money. but can you atleast not oversell things as things they will never become what originally promoted as
do you atleast admit your other mistakes of the past like trying to fundraise to buy a large boat for multiple millions where the end purpose was just going to be for your 'organisation' to have meetings on..

and all the proposals for micronations

Elwar, you are a breath of fresh air in an otherwise stagnant forum.

Again...source?


You literally just posted a picture of the solar panels on top of the seastead (which ran our water maker which you keep going on and on about).

6 240 Watt panels connected to 6 12V marine batteries, plenty of energy for our refrigerator, lights, water pump, water maker and wall sockets for charging our phones, laptops, repeater (for 22Mbps Internet) and marine radios.


But you do not listen so I am going back to ignoring you and your "you (and the many people working on this project) aren't thinking about "" due to not explaining every little thing to me online (even though I have no intention of ever supporting the project and will only ignore or twist anything you say and make up my own BS to fit my narrative).

your post history for one.

also look at the video you just linked in previous post. at 13 seconds where your fortlifting the spire into the water. all looks good from an open field into the open water.. but just try doing the same thing in a deep forest. you know as you said yourself surrounded by trees and animals and without needing to cut down tree's..

id love to see how you get through the forest with that one

but one very common thing you keep missing is the utilities. water, sewerage and electric.

last time i checked your thailand pod was not even solar powered
even when the army turned up.. no solar power to actually be a running 'home'
https://editorial01.shutterstock.com/wm-preview-1500/10216091d/c7a247c6/thai-navy-dismantles-a-seastead-floating-living-platform-off-phuket-sea-andaman-sea-thailand-shutterstock-editorial-10216091d.jpg

but atleast you admitted . only after you got caught. that you never intended it to be a home or seastead or micronation.. yet post history and blogs and videos before getting caught said the opposite.

We have a lot of pictures and video but not much on the web yet.

You can see it in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzFxKUxx9nE

We only did the 1/3rd scale of the spar to test the stability. We will build a scale of the pod portion in the next few weeks when we get the 3D printer installed.

source of your all too common statement?

Are there any pictures of this 1/3rd scale prototype or a video?  I imagine this is just a shell of a seapod or I totally misunderstood you what this prototype is?

elwar. it might have taken you 5 years to come to your senses of things i knew back then. but it seems your finally realising you were over promising and under delivering.

as for the 'landstead'
i hope you have not just sold the land owner an idea. have you even thought about things like if the pods are pre-fabbed in a factory. how the cranes and trucks are going to get between the tree's to position it all.
i cant see a group of men 'heave hoing' a 1.6m diameter and 20-40metre tall metal pole on their shoulders weaving in between tree's and over rocks and roots..

after all to be 'all around parrots, monkeys and sloths' indicate that its more of a forest land and not just some garden/woodland area'

again. electric and sanitation (fresh water/sewage) seem to be area's you are yet again not thinking about.
people carrying in freshwater and carrying out waste..

obviously if the landpod is going to be powered (presuming solar) the pod would nee to be above a tree canopy.
seems you just keep skipping over the basics

and all that it would be used for is just 'watch towers' for wild life fans to use for half a day tour

There it is, right above your post. Elwar says it himself:
I spend too much time talking in things like this forum. I should be out there doing, right along with Elwar.