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Topic: This guy gave a whole prototype of "how live roulette scam us" - page 11. (Read 2153 times)

legendary
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do you think, this is possible or they are already doing it? popular game providers like evolution, pragmatic, etc.

Reputable game providers will never do things like that, that's what I'm sure of. Morals aside, they are making good money without cheating anyone, Why risk ruining their reputation?

Many gamblers "feel" that they are cheated by casinos, and so when there's a demand for this kind of info, there's going to be a supply.

There are many of online casinos cheating their customers, no doubt about that. But saying "we are showing ... exactly what's happening with online roulette", like this guy in the video, without adding "on some sites" or something like that,  makes this video looking more like a conspiracy theorists' stuff. I wasn't surprised by seeing this comment below the video



Yeah "Wake up peeps! The governments are cheating everybody!" Bloody hell.  Grin Grin
legendary
Activity: 2688
Merit: 1192
I watched a youtube video, a guy is showing how live roulette in online casinos scam us. after watching some part of video, i check the comment, and on 4th comment i found this guy telling how they scam us.


"The practice when the roulette balls are made of piezoeletric ceramiC.The material used is Barium Titanate BaTiO3 on the surface, and Barium sulfate BaSO4 on the inside insulation.
The ball caries polarized surface charges when hit by anultrasonic sound wave. This is sent from the inter- digital transducers placed in the pockets of each number.
They send a wave to the ball that polarizes the surface with a negative charge.
The spoon/ pocket  of the number olso negative; thereforethe ball jumps out trough electrostatic repulsion.
Each number pocket is controlled by a transistor called IGBT.
This transistor turn on the switch so that the pocket is negatively charged.
The control room computer leaves the pockets that it wants the ball to go in neutral or of.
This is akk maneged by the sophisticated software and computers.
So that why you can see situation when the ball geteither pushed out violentely od sucked into the exact to a number.
I am positive you know that the ball stick to a number like a dart and also ball being pushed out from the pocket after almost completestop.
So this would be yes this technique could be possibly used to manipulate the outcome.
This is happening on you live dealer wheels."


do you think, this is possible or they are already doing it? popular game providers like evolution, pragmatic, etc.

No doubt there will be some shady, backstreet physical casinos or even online "live" casinos that utilize such methods - it's always worth looking out for shady behavior but not that the average player would be able to distinguish it versus normal variance of the game. The fact is that this game is already geared towards the house, so all they need to do to make money is to let people play it and it will pay for itself. Taking out the cost of paying for a dealer (which might give the house some incentive to cheat if not enough bets are coming in) and replacing it with an automated system that could release the ball would give them even less incentive to cheat. Frankly, unless you own the casino or have permission from the regulator to check, you'll never be able to tell
full member
Activity: 448
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I think this type of scam is possible when the casino there self run a roulette video means the live stream made my the own casino.

but most of the casino take video of live stream from game providers like evolution, pragmatic, etc. so if they want to scam player they need to change video for there profit, but on trusted casino's the video runs live without cheating so it's safe to play at trusted online casino and from trusted game providers.

there are thousands of casino's available if the game provider's were cheaters then definitely they got caught, surely someone spread the news that that game provider is cheating with customers but proving gsame on our platform(casino)
copper member
Activity: 2968
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It's not impossible but it sounds pretty complex to be honest. One thing that always bugged me is the camera angles, they're kind a fishy sometimes and no one would notice if they do something behind the frame. Especially if its a live card game or wheel spinning games (there might be someone or something behind the wheel that can stop the wheel when they want). Live casinos already got a ton of users and they're making profits in the long run, right? So why would they risk their reputation for some small-time scams? Doesn't make much sense to me. I think they're more focused on keeping their players happy and coming back. Scamming their own customers is just s bad business.  If you are still concerned but want to play roulette, then play those that are provide inhouse games because they provably fiar and you can verify the bets if they were rigged or not.
legendary
Activity: 2366
Merit: 2054
do you think, this is possible or they are already doing it? popular game providers like evolution, pragmatic, etc.
We cannot accuse the whole if only found one. it might be only a person so not for all. If I were you, I will only avoid the casino that you find it. As I know, Credible Casino has been audited and checked by officials, so if a casino commits fraud, the office will close the casino and withdraw all licenses, because of that the casino can't play around with cheating, whatever kind, they are under regulation country also which makes them close the casino operation if it harms the customer.
sr. member
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Some of you guys here are a fan of conspiracy theories and at the same time weren't attending math lessons at school. Live casino game providers can't cheat because there work thousands of employees, they have cameras everywhere inside and famous casino companies aren't really looking for shady live casino game providers because they simply don't have a need of it. Mathematically, one zero in roulette already gives casinos an advantage, a guarantee that long-term they profit, that's all they need for success and to be in business forever.

So, if you often lose and aren't able to beat the house, that doesn't mean that live roulettes are scam, you have to analyze and understand that you have zero chance to win against it because of ZERO, this ZERO changes the fate of game. And there are roulette games with two zeros, don't expect any win especially from them.
If the chances of winning is zero, then what exactly is the reason why peeps are still playing the game?..

A man said to his mother, when money is involved in a deal, then don't trust anybody, the truth of the matter is that, anybody can cheat, and for some casinos, their desire to make more profit is sometimes higher than their desire to give their customers a fair game to play, this is why I still believe that its very possible for some game providers, casinos to cheat, most especially, on games where the majority of gamblers don't know the game mechanics or how it functions.
They would really be taking out some advantage if ever they would see the success chance on integrating some shady acts on rigging up their games specially if they do saw that no one really being that suspicious in regards into their operation. We know that if we do pertain about on physical land based casinos on which these places are regulated by the government which they would really be having that kind of thinking or mindset and believing that these business are really that getting in line with government laws which means that fairness is already that been considered and understandable but since we do already have these kind of hint or showing off some possibilities on rigging up specially on roulette then for sure people would really be starting to be that observant.

In the other hand on which talking up generally where these business cant really be just that too confident on applying these rigging up on games because once they would really be caught
then it would really be over for their business which i dont see for it to be worth on doing this one.
legendary
Activity: 2702
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but what type of game can prove fair because in my opinion all games are equal and are controlled by the house so it's difficult for us to win.
I'm not certain, but I don't think provably fair live games exist. I can't think of any pf algorithm that can be used in live games! This is why I said I usually avoid them since you need to trust the provider.
Nevertheless, there are many good and entertaining games (dice, crash, plinko,..) For which you can verify the fairness so you can play them without worrying about being cheated. Pf algorithms guarantee the house can't manipulate the results.
hero member
Activity: 1456
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Well, that's a bit harsh, don't you think? Not all casinos are out to cheat their customers. However, that doesn't mean there aren't some bad apples in the casino industry who are out to cheat their customers. This risk may be particularly high with new casinos that lack a solid reputation or have dubious licenses and owners. One way to mitigate the risk is to look for casinos that are regulated by respected authorities and have a history of fair play.
legendary
Activity: 2422
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Some of you guys here are a fan of conspiracy theories and at the same time weren't attending math lessons at school. Live casino game providers can't cheat because there work thousands of employees, they have cameras everywhere inside and famous casino companies aren't really looking for shady live casino game providers because they simply don't have a need of it. Mathematically, one zero in roulette already gives casinos an advantage, a guarantee that long-term they profit, that's all they need for success and to be in business forever.

So, if you often lose and aren't able to beat the house, that doesn't mean that live roulettes are scam, you have to analyze and understand that you have zero chance to win against it because of ZERO, this ZERO changes the fate of game. And there are roulette games with two zeros, don't expect any win especially from them.
If the chances of winning is zero, then what exactly is the reason why peeps are still playing the game?..

A man said to his mother, when money is involved in a deal, then don't trust anybody, the truth of the matter is that, anybody can cheat, and for some casinos, their desire to make more profit is sometimes higher than their desire to give their customers a fair game to play, this is why I still believe that its very possible for some game providers, casinos to cheat, most especially, on games where the majority of gamblers don't know the game mechanics or how it functions.
hero member
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Some of you guys here are a fan of conspiracy theories and at the same time weren't attending math lessons at school. Live casino game providers can't cheat because there work thousands of employees, they have cameras everywhere inside and famous casino companies aren't really looking for shady live casino game providers because they simply don't have a need of it. Mathematically, one zero in roulette already gives casinos an advantage, a guarantee that long-term they profit, that's all they need for success and to be in business forever.

So, if you often lose and aren't able to beat the house, that doesn't mean that live roulettes are scam, you have to analyze and understand that you have zero chance to win against it because of ZERO, this ZERO changes the fate of game. And there are roulette games with two zeros, don't expect any win especially from them.
hero member
Activity: 1498
Merit: 504
The guy's explanation is really convincing and I'm certain many live games are rigged, the problem is how to prove it!
Personally, I avoid playing games where I can't verify the results by myself. I either play provably fair games or sports betting and bet only on major leagues where there is a small chance for match fixing.
If you are a fun of live games then, at least, stick to the one from reputable providers.
I agree with you choosing to bet on types of bets that can be calculated by yourself, the results like sports betting will be better.
Yes there may be some manipulation on sports betting but it is very rare and betting on sports betting is one way to keep gambling safe.
hero member
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Cheating on the old days most likely was done in gambling games like blackjack or baccarat, as sleights of hand which are completely imperceptible to the eye have existed for a very long time.
I've never been to a casino physically. So, I don't know what are they doing there. But, if they have a chance to cheat, of course, they will take the chance. I believe online casinos have more chances to cheat compared to offline physical casinos.
Even now you can see some of the old methods being used to prevent cheating as part of the games of today, an example of this is found in Texas holdem, have you ever wondered why the dealer burns cards or to put it more bluntly why the dealer discards the top card of the deck when dealing the flop, the turn or the river?

This is done to avoid cheaters marking cards and obtaining an unfair advantage over other players, and even today when you are playing online this practice is still in place, so in a way cheating has changed the games we love and it has make them the way they are.
hero member
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The guy's explanation is really convincing and I'm certain many live games are rigged, the problem is how to prove it!
Personally, I avoid playing games where I can't verify the results by myself. I either play provably fair games or sports betting and bet only on major leagues where there is a small chance for match fixing.
If you are a fun of live games then, at least, stick to the one from reputable providers.
Yes, no one can prove that live games are cheating because gamblers can only watch live in an online casino.
Maybe those who have worked at a live game provider can say that there is an act of cheating, but we don't know how it actually happened.
Actually, what you said is better to bet on games that are proven fair and on sports betting in the premier league, but what type of game can prove fair because in my opinion all games are equal and are controlled by the house so it's difficult for us to win.
Really hard to give some fight or proving out if there would be some odd activity or outcomes or results on the time you do notice it out.There's no way you could prove out that they are making use of the same method.
Unless if you are really that playing locally or physically on which it would really be just that possibly be that obvious if they are applying out this rigging up on game. Now that its been exposed, then we do really think
that they wont really be making out some adjustment or creating something new method which arent known or exposed into the public or gamblers. They've been here on this market for decades or for too long in speaking about the existence. No one had the guts or courage on saying about on what they've been doing and now we do see some video in telling that they rigging up the games or rolls when it comes to roulette.

If we do really look at it then those ball bounces are indeed that shady, you could be able to spot out about that ball on sticking into a particular spot once the trigger or button had been pressed.
Somehow we are all just trying to observe out specially when playing on physical casinos but if not then there's no way on telling it specially when you are in front
of your computer or pc.
legendary
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do you think, this is possible or they are already doing it? popular game providers like evolution, pragmatic, etc.
Cheating is always possible by casino's whether offline or online. Casino owners are always exposed to ways to manipulate games to their favor, the decision to cheat is their choice to make and that will then depend on the management of the casino. If the management is made up of individuals who are not greedy and have integrity in business, they will always keep the games fair even though they know that they can cheat.

I believe online casinos have more chances to cheat compared to offline physical casinos.
You can be cheated in offline casino's right in front of your eyes, and you will never know.
hero member
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The guy's explanation is really convincing and I'm certain many live games are rigged, the problem is how to prove it!
Personally, I avoid playing games where I can't verify the results by myself. I either play provably fair games or sports betting and bet only on major leagues where there is a small chance for match fixing.
If you are a fun of live games then, at least, stick to the one from reputable providers.
Yes, no one can prove that live games are cheating because gamblers can only watch live in an online casino.
Maybe those who have worked at a live game provider can say that there is an act of cheating, but we don't know how it actually happened.
Actually, what you said is better to bet on games that are proven fair and on sports betting in the premier league, but what type of game can prove fair because in my opinion all games are equal and are controlled by the house so it's difficult for us to win.
hero member
Activity: 518
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It is unlikely there was too much cheating on the early days of the roulette as the proposed method on the OP is very complex and could only be achieved with the use of modern technology,
I think so. The roulette game has been on the market since the 18th century. But we don't know for how long we using modern technology roulette. We don't know who has invented such cheating methods. How long have they done it? We have been in the modern industry for a long time now. Must be over 20 years? Imagine they have been cheating for 20 years, which is a long time, and you don't know.

and even then I doubt there are many casinos which are doing something like this, because if they were discovered then no one will ever play there.
They know the risk as well. But, if they use it for a couple of months, they already made more than they can make in a calendar year. It's always hard to make money in a legit way. Once they know they can cheat players, they will continue doing it until people catch them doing shit. So, they still do it knowing that they can get busted.

Cheating on the old days most likely was done in gambling games like blackjack or baccarat, as sleights of hand which are completely imperceptible to the eye have existed for a very long time.
I've never been to a casino physically. So, I don't know what are they doing there. But, if they have a chance to cheat, of course, they will take the chance. I believe online casinos have more chances to cheat compared to offline physical casinos.
legendary
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The guy's explanation is really convincing and I'm certain many live games are rigged, the problem is how to prove it!
Personally, I avoid playing games where I can't verify the results by myself. I either play provably fair games or sports betting and bet only on major leagues where there is a small chance for match fixing.
If you are a fun of live games then, at least, stick to the one from reputable providers.
legendary
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Of course that's possible but i wonder what's the reason for risking it as it would need one pair of loose lips to "sink ships". Meaning that this would be hard to keep hidden. People talk when they are drunk and this is a multimillion or if not billion dollar industry that's usually heavily audited. Press would be interested and definitely would pay those underpaid workers more then there salary to give up any dirt on this system.

That comment doesn't really convince me any more then the fact we all know that there's a possibility they cheat. In fact that level of details just sounds like some engineer wanted attention and wanted to show off how he would do it.
legendary
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These issues are usually prevalent in new and small casinos for obvious reasons. This is why research is crucial before investing in any casino(Online and Offline).
Correct, also it is worth mentioning that those casinos which are small or new (founded with not much capital) are more likely to use unrefined cheating techniques than those described by OP (from the youtube comments), and so easier to spot by gamblers.

We can talk about high technology materials and computer guided roulettes, but effectively and stealthy using those things can be very expensive and risky (for obvious reasons). Big casinos which could easily cheat do not do that because it is not worth it to burn their reputation and open themselves to lawsuits, they are already profitable. Small shady casinos may try to use some hidden magnets instead all of that.  Tongue
They didn't mention a specific casino which means they are referring to all (old or new, famous or not famous). It's normal for a new casino to have a limited capital but there are new casinos who prepared really well because they already have a bigger capital on them. I believe it's not about the capital but even if the casino has a big capital, it is still possible for them to scam their users.

A big capital can only be use as a prop for the players to gain confidence about them. Big established casinos don't need to cheat because they are earning enough already. There are people who play live games thinking they are fairer but it's actually the opposite if the theory is true.

But big casinos and those that actually have big capital are the ones which do not need to cheat on the games, being legitimate it is profitable for them and they would lose their income if they were caught doing it anyways.

If you want my personal opinion, those casinos which are the most likely to cheat on their gamblers are the ones who do not have a long time in the industry nor a history of good reputation and paying their gamblers and at the same time, they are small enough to not catch the attention on authorities.

See, a casino is supposed to have a big enough bankroll to cover the possible wins of their gamblers, if a casino is small and still allows people to wager beyond their entire value as business, then it is a red flag.
legendary
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^But still safe for me to use a licensed gambling casino.
There is possible that with the advancement of technology and the internet, licensing authorities are now able to monitor online casinos more closely, which has helped to improve the overall safety and security of the industry. I watched the video and it seems that is true I don't have an idea what casino it is, so possible someone casino risking their licensure because of this scamming activity.

Quote
I agree, it is much safer to use a licensed casino than a reputable non-licence casino because the latter is not bound by the law.
It depends on the issuer of the license and on the gambling authorities monitoring the compliance with the requirements of the license. So if the casino is licensed in an european, north american, or even a small western country you can be rather confident but if its license comes from a carribean or a small latin american country, I don't think it's highly relevant to consider it as more trustworthy than a reputable non-licensed casino, because it's more likely to avoid any trouble if it pays the price to the good guy.
You are right, there are really some licenses that are  meaningless, I guess this is one of the reasons why sometimes, will still see some casino believed to be operating under a license, scamming its users,

I don't really know much about different jurisdictions and how they run their licensing system, but like you said, casinos operating with licenses obtained from jurisdiction where its license is meaningless, such casino shouldn't be considered as a casino operating under a license, for such casino, a reputable casino with no license is better I believe.
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