Topic: to Europeans: can you please try explain to me why your countries accept Muslims - page 12. (Read 10430 times)

They may be totally stupid fucks but at least they´ve not been stupid enough, so far at least, to go on a totally out of control emotional porn binge when they´ve been attacked, rushing into one unplanned war after the other leaving nothing but endless chaos and more war.

You know, we should let all the criminals out of jail.  Not many of them were rapists.  We could spend our time and money better figuring out which of them were rapists than simply discriminating against all criminals and locking them up.  Just because they were branded as criminals doesn't mean they are all bad, that's discrimination.  There are all types.  Some rape, some rob  banks, some are completely innocent.

Why are you so prejudiced?

You have a naivity about the reality of war.  As an example look at the Spanish Civil War.  A man walked into a village and was asked "Are you a Catholic, or a Communist?"  If you answered the wrong way, you got shot.  If you answered the right way, you were enlisted in that side's army.

That's the way it is.  All you'll get for your nuanced intellectual talk is a boot in the face.

"Europe is smarter, wiser and more tolerant now."

No, it does seem they are totally stupid fucks.

Actually no, the evidence is of continual and rising anti-Semitism in Europe.  Who are you to say there is "an effort to not go down that road again?"

But crime is an individual concept. I may come from a family of criminals. Unless I commit a crime, I can not be discriminated against. The government can watch me more carefully, but they have to treat me like everyone else. This is a universal principle of human rights.

Even if 99% of Turks were homicidal maniacs, you can't argue that I am also one, unless you have reasonable evidence that I, "as an individual" may be one.

There are actually many details. For instance ISIS guys are sunnis. Some people that flee from them are alevites or shiites. These are different sects of islam. But from the point of ISIS people (or those that support ISIS point of view) alevites and shiites are not muslims. So again, who decides, who is to be classified as muslim? There are also christians in Syria. There are agnostics. There are people who call themselves muslims, but drink alcohol. There are people who don't call themselves muslims but don't eat pork etc. There is a whole spectrum...

So why waste all this effort to figure out who is a muslim and who is not instead of trying to figure out who poses a threat to France?

also a working definition of racism is discrimination (legal or otherwise) of a person based on her race, ethinicity or religion. You can discriminate against someone because he/she has done bad things, or has violent tendencies, or simply because he/she is stupid etc. (the latter being called mentalism for example), those are not as problematic. But if you discriminate based only on race, ethnicity or religion that causes a lot of problems.

Racism actually is not necessarily a problem in itself. But europe has had experience with it, and has decided to never practice it again. Because it doesn't work, and it causes massive social issues. I think the institutional policy against racism is part of the effort to not go down that road again.

I am not a french citizen. I am a turkish citizen, I work in france and plan to apply for citizenship.

It is besides the point too. There will be more people like me in the future. Who are highly qualified, some of them atheists or agnostics. And your idea of not letting new muslims into europe, will block these people also.

Christian 7th century medieval bullshit.

Bah.

Yeah, sounds legit

1095 - After consultations with god, Pope Urban II calls upon the Franks to invade the more civilized Muslim world. Begins five centuries of warfare.


"Let those who have hitherto been robbers now become soldiers."
– Urban II addresses his gangster horde.

The answer is that it is not the doing of the European people and governments... that they accept Muslims. The answer is that God is working it.

Islam says that you are saved for eternal life by your works. Christianity (in which Europe is steeped) say that you are saved by the grace of God through faith In Jesus Christ - the truth.

God is causing severe unrest in the lands of Islam, so that the Muslims flee to, where else? the lands of the Christians. He is doing this because part of His ancient, Old Testament writings say that He will show favor to the descendants of Ishmael.

The time for the return of Jesus is imminent. The Muslims must be given their chance. God is driving the Muslims to the Christians, because Muslims (as a whole) would not accept the Christian missionaries He tried to send them over the hundreds of years since the inception of Islam.

Well one of best suggestions ever. I just think to not be just about muslims, to every religion have that kind of dressing code.


This is interesting, I thought about it. Why muslims come to Europe, when they religious views are much different then here in Europe. Why they dont go to Abu Dabi, Dubai, Egipt, Maroko etc... there is a lot of muslim countries out there, why they choose Europe, far and cold Sweeden probably they didnt saw so much snow even on tv.


And on the end I live in Serbia, we are not in EU. But we are here on intersection, refugees crossin my country to come to Europe. What will be if after this attack Europe decide to close the borders? And can u tell me why most of EU countries voted for Kosovo and made a muslim country on place where was christianity?

So 50 percent of your country supports people who think all non Muslims should die, and you don't think that is going to cause issues when you go to non Muslim countries?

First there is on EU law ... that force the "Family assembly" so if you give nationality of 1 member of the family , then he has the right to bring his complete 1 level family ... bad or good one ... no matter

And secondly ... to be politically correct ... hoo yes ... and for Germany ...to get worker more cheap , good slave with low salary !

At no point did I or I think anyone in this thread say it would be a choice to kick existing Muslim citizens out of a country, as that is wrong. The countries that gave them citizenship cannot and should not go back on that.

My question was why accept more Muslims.

This is not yet confirmed that the passport was from one of the terrorist ... so far , only Greece confirmed that the passport found on ground was validated for entrance in Greece ... that's all ...

Good to see you in forum again.

In Turkey %50 of population support ISIS and other %50 hate them to death.
%99 of the people have written Muslim in their ID card, even they don't. That's stupid country policy. If you want to change it you'll face big problems in your social life.
So, I believe in God but am not a Muslim. I feed 2.5 million Syrians with my tax money, I cover your EU and you say to me I face double standards when I go to Europe. You can GTFOH and die alone with your racist thoughts.

In my country Muslims live over 500 years, so such question is meaningless.
We live in peace with them but had conflict with other Christian group.
Of course, Muslims which now coming to Europe are completely different issue.

Interesting view.


But I would simply note that war is full of purposefully devised double bind situations.

For example note the case of Coventry in WWII.  If the British vacated the city, the enemy would then know that the British had broken their encryption. 

An enemy seeks refuge within a greater population, where he cannot be thrown out without impacting that greater population.  This is why the USA put Japanese citizens in internment camps during WWII.  The threat of a small fraction of that population.

Since then this has been often cited as a racial abuse, but at the time it was done for the greater safety of the US population. 

Summary?  Political correctness has just died.  It's over, folks.

How do you decide who is a muslim btw?

Do you assume based on their birthplace?
Take my case. I am an atheist born in Istanbul. My turkish identity card has "muslim" written on it. I work as a researcher in a prestigious french university, and I contribute rather positively to the french society (I had many students, postdocs etc.). So you want france to kick me out, or not let me and my family into france based on what is written on my identity card? Very smart. I hate islam more than you do, believe me...

Or do you just ask? Do you think people who have no problem killing innocent people indiscriminately will have any problem lying to you about their religion? Muslims even have a word for it, it's called takiyye (in turkish spelling anyway). You are allowed to lie to further your religious goals.

So the rational thing is to not approach with a broad brush. And to try to identify who is dangerous and who is not, instead of trying to identify who is muslim and who is not, which doesn't immediately translate to violence or lack thereof anyway.

I guess this is the principle. But I agree that in practice the french are a bit too idealistic. They should probably come up with a better way of identifying the risks. Not everyone that can provide a translated cassier de judissiare from their home country is innocent in real life.

It is true that non-Muslims face more risks when compared to the Muslims in the Middle East. But how will you find out whether a person is ex-Muslim or not? People will lie that they are ex-Muslim, just to gain an EU residence permit. I have heard of incidents from Germany, where Muslim immigrants nominally convert to Christianity before submitting their asylum claims. In the claim, they will argue that they have left Islam, and therefore they face death if they are sent back to their home country. But once the claim is processed, these people will rejoin the Islamic faith.

Not a bad answer.

I can definitely see your point of view. Belief in the premise that humans are essentially nice people and we are all the same in the end. 

I still think you will be proven wrong over time, but at least the answer you provided is a real answer.