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Topic: Transgender - page 9. (Read 9820 times)

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July 21, 2015, 01:35:56 PM
#72

Some of the results of Fukushima are only now being brought to light:

Mutant Flowers From Japan's Fukushima Nuclear Disaster Go Viral Online

But someday God will create a new world. Revelation 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea.

Tell me how you reconcile a creator god and the fact that genetic mutations exist

Seriously?
Yes, if things were designed perfectly for a perfect world, why are some babies stillborn with their hearts outside their bodies? What kind of God plays such a cruel, physically-painful, nine month long joke on a mother?
hero member
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July 21, 2015, 01:30:36 PM
#71

Some of the results of Fukushima are only now being brought to light:

Mutant Flowers From Japan's Fukushima Nuclear Disaster Go Viral Online

But someday God will create a new world. Revelation 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea.

Tell me how you reconcile a creator god and the fact that genetic mutations exist

Seriously?
sr. member
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July 21, 2015, 01:28:57 PM
#70

Some of the results of Fukushima are only now being brought to light:

Mutant Flowers From Japan's Fukushima Nuclear Disaster Go Viral Online

But someday God will create a new world. Revelation 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea.


Tell me how you reconcile a creator god and the fact that genetic mutations exist
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July 21, 2015, 01:27:05 PM
#69
I've always been amazed at how many things could easily go wrong at any moment, and we'd have chaos. Yet, instead we seem to be protected more than we ever should be  if there was no God watching over us.
We are the only gods watching over us. Let's hope we're wise and compassionate Watchers. Otherwise...

We are not gods and never will be. The world has already been ravaged by people.

Some of the results of Fukushima are only now being brought to light:

Mutant Flowers From Japan's Fukushima Nuclear Disaster Go Viral Online

But someday God will create a new world. Revelation 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea.
legendary
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July 21, 2015, 01:26:07 PM
#68
I've always been amazed at how many things could easily go wrong at any moment, and we'd have chaos. Yet, instead we seem to be protected more than we ever should be  if there was no God watching over us.
We are the only gods watching over us. Let's hope we're wise and compassionate Watchers. Otherwise...

[snip for size]



^^^ Completely off topic, but this photo is a phenomenal piece of visual commentary!
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July 21, 2015, 01:20:02 PM
#67
I've always been amazed at how many things could easily go wrong at any moment, and we'd have chaos. Yet, instead we seem to be protected more than we ever should be  if there was no God watching over us.
We are the only gods watching over us. Let's hope we're wise and compassionate Watchers. Otherwise...





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July 21, 2015, 01:17:09 PM
#66
You are taking the scientific world's data that seems to have concluded that there is no God, and believed it, hook, line and sinker.
Incorrect. The "scientific world" (lol) has not come to any such conclusion! Science only asserts that there is no evidence to support any deity claims. Personally, I gave up faith in god at a young age, long before I was very much interested in science or any particular scientific endeavour.

Back then, it was just a gut feeling, and I went with it. Later in life my thirst for knowledge drove me to understanding the evidence, which is all around us*, and inside us**, and the source of that vague feeling I had as a boy.

*comets and asteroids slamming indifferently into Earth

**hundreds of millions of micobes that would kill you within 48 hours if your immune system ever failed

Funny, those things you think of as proof He doesn't exist, are proof to me that He does, lol. I've always been amazed at how many things could easily go wrong at any moment, and we'd have chaos. Yet, instead we seem to be protected more than we ever should be if there was no God watching over us.
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July 21, 2015, 01:07:44 PM
#65
You are taking the scientific world's data that seems to have concluded that there is no God, and believed it, hook, line and sinker.
Incorrect. The "scientific world" (lol) has not come to any such conclusion! Science only asserts that there is no evidence to support any deity claims. Personally, I gave up faith in god at a young age, long before I was very much interested in science or any particular scientific endeavour.

Back then, it was just a gut feeling, and I went with it. Later in life my thirst for knowledge drove me to understanding the evidence, which is all around us*, and inside us**, and the source of that vague feeling I had as a boy.

*comets and asteroids slamming indifferently into Earth

**hundreds of millions of micobes that would kill you within 48 hours if your immune system ever failed

I'm not saying everything science has ever said is false. I'm simply saying most people will continue to live their lives without ever testing if everything science has told them was true, and they are placing faith in science that what they've been told is true, in that case.
Here's the thing: Everyone using a smartphone is testing the claims of science all the time. Everyone using a computer is testing those claims.

Everyone who sits down inside a 1.5+ ton explosion-powered metal box vehicle is staking their life on the claims of physics that when they push the brake pedal, the brakes will be applied, and the vehicle will come to a stop. The fact that this computer is operating and the internet is working right now are evidence that the claims of science are true.
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July 21, 2015, 01:04:42 PM
#64
Claim:

you (and some other people too) have faith in it like one.

Evidence to support claim?

You are taking the scientific world's data that seems to have concluded that there is no God, and believed it, hook, line and sinker. But as I've said the scientists at CERN, may right now know that there is something more, such as an Intelligent Designer or God, as they cannot explain why the Big Bang happened the way they think it should have. A real scientist should have an open mind to believing that the Big Bang did not occur the way it's written in science books, and that there could be something else at play. So a real scientist should at least be agnostic.

"Have faith in science" is an oxymoron. Faith (superstition) and science (reason) exist as a zero-sum game with one another. They cannot occupy the same space. As one wanes, the other waxes.

And yet, the majority of people have faith in their science books as the be-all end-all word on things, and have never actually ever tested anything. Remember The Truman Show? He was told that the world was big, but he had never been able to get out of his town and actually test it. When he did, he found out that some of what he was told was not true. For example. the moon rose and night and the sun shined in the morning, but when he went missing, the sun suddenly rose at night, so they could have the light to find him, etc.

I'm not saying everything science has ever said is false. I'm simply saying most people will continue to live their lives without ever testing if everything science has told them was true, and they are placing faith in science that what they've been told is true, in that case.

"Faith is variously defined as belief, confidence or trust in a person, object, religion, idea or view."

It certainly is a confidence in science to trust it, without ever testing it.
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July 21, 2015, 12:11:22 PM
#63
Claim:

you (and some other people too) have faith in it like one.

Evidence to support claim?

"Have faith in science" is an oxymoron. Faith (superstition) and science (reason) exist as a zero-sum game with one another. They cannot occupy the same space. When one wanes, the other waxes.
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July 21, 2015, 09:58:18 AM
#62
It has come to my attention, thanks to him, that there is a certain group of people who believe science to be their religion. I don't know when it got turned into a religion.
In many ways, science seems like a 21st Century religion. It's a belief system that many wholeheartedly defend and evolve their lives around, sometimes as much as the devoutest of religious folk.

Nothing could be further from the truth. Science is not a "belief system" but a process and methodology for seeking an objective reality.

Yes, I read all you wrote, but you somehow missed my point.

Science is not a religion, and I never said it was. I was saying that you (and some other people too) have faith in it like one. Some scientists are just scientists. Some athesists believe in science like a religion. Scientists don't know if there is a God or not. You believe there isn't and have disdain for those who do. Yet, if a scientist doesn't know why there is more matter than anit-matter after the big bang, they should, by definition, have an open mind that something else caused it, and that that something else could be God.
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July 21, 2015, 09:41:09 AM
#61
It has come to my attention, thanks to him, that there is a certain group of people who believe science to be their religion. I don't know when it got turned into a religion.
In many ways, science seems like a 21st Century religion. It's a belief system that many wholeheartedly defend and evolve their lives around, sometimes as much as the devoutest of religious folk.

Nothing could be further from the truth. Science is not a "belief system" but a process and methodology for seeking an objective reality. Of course because scientific exploration is a human endeavor it comes with all the flaws of humanity: ego, short-sightedness, corruption and greed. But unlike a "belief system" such as religion untethered to an objective truth, science is over time self-policing; competing scientists have a strong incentive to corroborate and build on the findings of others; but equally, to prove other scientists wrong by means that can be duplicated by others. Nobody is doing experiments to demonstrate how Noah could live to 600 years old, because those who believe that story are not confined to reproducible evidence to support their belief. But experiments were done to show the earth orbits the sun, not the other way around.

Here is the fundamental and irreconcilable conflict between the two: science searches for mechanisms and the answer to "how" the universe functions, with no appeal to higher purpose, without assuming the existence of such purpose. Religion seeks meaning and the answer to "why" the world is as we know it, based on the unquestioned assumption that such meaning and purpose exist. The two worldviews could not more incompatible.

Unlike scientific claims, beliefs cannot be arbitrated to determine which is valid because there is no objective basis on which to compare one set of beliefs to another. Those two world views are not closer than we think; they are as far apart as could possibly be imagined.

Religion and science are incompatible at every level. The two seek different answers to separate questions using fundamentally and inherently incompatible methods. Nothing can truly bring the two together without sacrificing intellectual honesty.

We are told that since science and faith are both fallible, both are equally valid approaches to understanding the world and ourselves. Here is what Jeffrey Small says about this:
"Bias, preconceived ideas, academic politics, ego and resistance to change are ever-present in scientific and academic communities and often result in institutional opposition to new theories, especially ground-breaking ones. Many scientists initially resisted Copernicus, Kepler and Galileo because they presented a new paradigm of the universe."

Well, exactly! What this proves is that over time, science is indeed self-correcting while faith is not. While we all know now, due to science, that the earth orbits the sun, the Church is still fighting the battle with Galileo. Even today in the 21st century, the Church claims that Galileo shares blame because he made unproven assertions. Unproven assertions! The best the Pope could muster was that he regretted the "tragic mutual incomprehension" that had caused Galileo to suffer. As the new millennium settles in, the Church still claims that Galileo was wrong. The dissonance between Scripture and fact is not a problem relegated to earlier centuries, but remains relevant today.

Science is indeed fallible, and scientists suffer from all the usual human foibles. But reproducibility, scrutiny from other scientists, the drive for new knowledge, the glory of overturning orthodoxy, all drive science to a better understanding of an objective truth or our best approximation of it; this method of understanding the world is inherently incompatible with faith. Faith cannot be contested: I believe, therefore it is true. All scientific claims are by nature contestable. Those differences cannot be reconciled. Ever.

In reality we need to turn this argument about fallibility on its head. Science never claims to be infallible. There would be no need for more research if scientists believed they had all the answers, and all of them right. But god by definition is infallible. And yet. The Bible's clear statement about age of the earth, off by more than 4 billion years, is one example of an important factual error. Sure, maybe this is a mistake of human interpretation of divine will. But with each new discovery proving a Biblical assertion wrong, the Church retreats to the safety of errors in interpretation or dismissing the discrepancy as unimportant. Yet the ever-accumulating factual mistakes must call into question the certainty with which the Church claims that god, or the Bible, is infallible, since their previous insistence has proven unsubstantiated with glaring factual mistakes. These doubts about infallibility apply, too, to the Church's teachings on morality.

If the bible is the literal word of god, then god has clearly blown it. If the bible is a flawed interpretation of god's will, then the conclusions about morality can be equally flawed. The issue of fallibility is a problem for the faithful, not for science and reason. Never confuse the two.
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July 21, 2015, 09:28:48 AM
#60
I apologize to the thread creator, this will be off topic. Sad

If you want to belittle the people for hating, belittle the hypocrites not the Christians.
Oh, you're one of the good Christians who supports equal rights and protections under the law for homosexuals, transgender folk, and the polyamorous, than? Not one of the bigoted hateful hypocrites?

I call it "Christianity Lite", and those weak-spined quasi-pious semi-theists are much more endearing than are the bigots. They're still intellectual cowards, of course.

See its not good enough if you are religious and tolerant, because he is intolerant of you and your beliefs. He won't be satisfied until all religion is destroyed and replaced by the religion of the state (marxism), regardless of how peaceful you are and how much you mind your own business.

I've pointed out his hypocrisy in every post of mine on this thread. He is clearly not denying it. How could he? He is not a tolerant person, no matter how much he would like to think he is.

The world is not black and white,those that think that way are usually autistic. They have trouble seeing the grey and take things quite literally.
Being reasonable means one forms judgments and arrives at conclusions by a sound process of logic.

A worldview cannot truly be considered reasoned if it includes any superstitious thought, because superstition is fallacious logic.

If one indulges in fallacious or fantastic logic, one cannot claim to be an earnest student of science.

A lot of very well respected and famous scientists were/are religious. Maybe you should double check your bias with actual history. For some one such as yourself who claims to be "an earnest student of science" you sure are allergic to posting scientific studies to support your dogmas which, in effect unsupported with scientific studies, have no more scientific validity than religion.

Beliathon has shed some light on this in the last few weeks. It has come to my attention, thanks to him, that there is a certain group of people who believe science to be their religion. I don't know when it got turned into a religion. Obviously some scientists believe in God, or are at least agnostic.

But with the disdain and hate he has for any religion, and the fact that he can not believe someone can come to a logical choice that there could be an intelligent designer without a religion, shows to me he has blinders on; he's holding onto his belief that there is no creator because he believes in science to the point that he will block things out. I truly believe he worships science as a religion. He has way too much faith in the scientists to come to all the right answers and that the answer will be there there is no God.

Guess what Beliathon? The scientists don't know this yet! They are working at CERN trying to figure out why the big bang happened the way it supposedly did. By their own theories it should have happened differently, so we know their theories are incorrect in some way.

"Dirac interpreted the equation to mean that for every particle there exists a corresponding antiparticle, exactly matching the particle but with opposite charge. For the electron there should be an "antielectron", for example, identical in every way but with a positive electric charge. The insight opened the possibility of entire galaxies and universes made of antimatter.

But when matter and antimatter come into contact, they annihilate – disappearing in a flash of energy. The big bang should have created equal amounts of matter and antimatter. So why is there far more matter than antimatter in the universe?"
-- CERN's page on antimatter

What will happen if they figure out God or an Intelligent Designer created it and that's why there is more matter than anti-matter in the world, when scientifically that should not have happened?
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July 21, 2015, 09:04:39 AM
#59
He won't be satisfied until all religion is destroyed and replaced by the religion of the state (marxism)
Jesus Christ, how does a person even get to be this retarded? I can't even...

Marxism is a political worldview and has nothing to do with religion one way or the other.
legendary
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July 21, 2015, 12:46:15 AM
#58
Have no issue with how people proceed in life as long as its not hurting others.

The violence aspect is sad and I read a large segment of the homeless youth fall into the LGBT fold as well.

My axe is not with the individual as much as the movement.

Here are some examples off the top of my head:

Fights over bathrooms and who has the right to use what bathroom.
A transgender locally trying to get sex removed from birth certification and drivers licenses
Teachers forcing kids to try on the other sex role and dress up
Parents wanting to be able to change the sex of their children under the age of six

These movements are fine,but these always try to grab more then they should and start stepping on people toes in the process.
Its the same issue I have with GreenPeace,Enviromentalism,Vegans,NoBorders and like groups. There is a segment that will keep pushing
till we all are thinking wtf happened here!


Well said.

Why do these types of things always have to be shoved down everyone's throats? Live and let live is not enough.

I don't care what people do or how they live but please do not expect me to clap my hands for joy.  It seems us non-clappers are bad people because we don't want to jump on the transgender(or whatever) bandwagon. 
legendary
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July 21, 2015, 12:17:43 AM
#57
If you want to belittle the people for hating, belittle the hypocrites not the Christians.
Oh, you're one of the good Christians who supports equal rights and protections under the law for homosexuals, transgender folk, and the polyamorous, than? Not one of the bigoted hateful hypocrites?

I call it "Christianity Lite", and those weak-spined quasi-pious semi-theists are much more endearing than are the bigots. They're still intellectual cowards, of course.

See its not good enough if you are religious and tolerant, because he is intolerant of you and your beliefs. He won't be satisfied until all religion is destroyed and replaced by the religion of the state (marxism), regardless of how peaceful you are and how much you mind your own business.

The world is not black and white,those that think that way are usually autistic. They have trouble seeing the grey and take things quite literally.
Being reasonable means one forms judgments and arrives at conclusions by a sound process of logic.

A worldview cannot truly be considered reasoned if it includes any superstitious thought, because superstition is fallacious logic.

If one indulges in fallacious or fantastic logic, one cannot claim to be an earnest student of science.

A lot of very well respected and famous scientists were/are religious. Maybe you should double check your bias with actual history. For some one such as yourself who claims to be "an earnest student of science" you sure are allergic to posting scientific studies to support your dogmas which, in effect unsupported with scientific studies, have no more scientific validity than religion.

Christians, if you believe your Christ would have anything other than infinite compassion for homosexuals, transfolk, or atheists, than you have grossly misunderstood the teachings of your messiah.

Would argue that statement is also based on perception.
Well, the question might be what would Christ have thought if he had encountered the opinionated, arrogant Pink Mafia of today.

Got a feeling "infinite compassion" would not have applied...more like his little encounter with the money changers in the temple, that's my opinion.
Then as now, usury was predatory and cruel. Your messiah probably recognized that, if the temple story is true.

There is nothing cruel or predatory about strangers sharing orgasms in ways your invisible sky father doesn't approve. It doesn't affect you. Christian hatred of homosexuality does affect gay american teens though,  to the point that they're three times as likely to commit suicide as straight teens.

Being an atheist, I have no interest in your mission of hate. 
You keep being an atheist, I prefer to stick to just being a scientist, spreading the message of reason.

While it's true that reason doesn't tolerate superstition, that doesn't make it hateful, it only makes it reasonable. Reason and superstition are like oil and water, they can never mix, can never occupy the same space.

Ignorance creates fear, fear creates hatred, hatred creates violence. Superstition fuels ignorance and impedes knowledge, reason fuels knowledge and impedes ignorance.

Imagine the world as a cup which started "empty", with only air. Slowly, the cup is being filled with the "water" of reason. The more reason we add, the less room there is for violence. Once the cup is full...

Anyone who doesn't agree with liathon is automatically a theist. He has religious ESP and can determine your belief system via osmosis didn't you know?  You demand acceptance for people of different gender identities, but some how being intolerant of religion is the only reasonable option you claim. Not hypocritical at all. Freedom of religion is a right, just like defining your own gender identity is a right. When religious people don't accept homosexuality, suddenly it is bigotry, but when you are intolerant of religion, it is only reasonable right? Not double standards at all.



legendary
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July 20, 2015, 10:21:35 PM
#56



Cis Drag Queens Banned From Pride Event Because They May Offend Trans People


Maybe complete and total inclusivity isn’t as easy as it sounds.

The organizers of Free Pride Glasgow in Scotland have hit a snag in their mission to plan a totally inclusive event:
Some activists think drag queens are offensive to transgender people, others think banning drag queens is offensive to transgender drag queens, and still others think allowing only transgender drag queens is offensive to cisgender drag queens.

Whoa.

Although drag performances had been part of Free Pride Glasgow for years, the event organizers announced in a statement on Saturday that they would not be allowing them this year because some transgender individuals found “some drag performance, particularly cis drag,” to be offensive because it “hinges on the social view of gender and making it into a joke.”


http://www.nationalreview.com/article/421402/drag-queens-banned-scotland-pride





legendary
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July 20, 2015, 09:14:21 PM
#55
....

That's where you fail. The physical traits listed in that link are all just that: physical traits, all related to sexual reproduction, nothing to do with gender. You're the one who appears to be flogging a dead horse, i.e.: the outdated political agenda of attaching cultural baggage (male, female, intersex labels and related political classes) to superficial physical characteristics (chromosomes, physical appearance due to hormones and so forth).....
Bah, blah.

That's where you start, not what you ignore.

Of course, you can ignore whatever you want.
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July 20, 2015, 09:07:45 PM
#54
I believe everyone should be loved, and forgiven, because we are all human. Think about it.
The topic we're discussing has absolutely nothing to do with forgiveness or which species we are. Think about it.

No, the topic I've always been discussing in this thread was your hypocrisy. The words you wrote, that I have quoted twice in this thread show your disdain and hate, instead of love towards your fellow humans in this world.

This quote also shows disdain:

While religion only provides insight about one's own anus.

Yet, you would be upset with others for having the same disdain and hate of homosexuals that you have for those religious people. This is truly hypocritical, and not tolerant behavior. But I guess you knew that, since you never said you weren't a hypocrite.

If you want to belittle the people for hating, belittle the hypocrites not the Christians.
Oh, you're one of the good Christians who supports equal rights and protections under the law for homosexuals, transgender folk, and the polyamorous, than? Not one of the bigoted hateful hypocrites?

This is supposed to be the land of the free. I do, however, not support the ones who want to take away the priest's right to not marry a homosexual couple ( As they can be married elsewhere, this does not harm them.).


Is that even a debate topic, or just the thing you believe because you're afraid of gays marrying? I haven't seen anyone proposing to force priests to marry a homosexual couple. Your bigotry and intolerance is between you and your god, and government can't force your religious leaders to perform a religious ceremony they don't want to. If there are fellow Christians pushing for priests to marry gay couples, that's also a topic to be resolved within your religion and the arbitrary rules your religion has designed.

That was from a previous thread, where a study showed 1 out of 5 Americans believed priests should be forced to perform something they thought was a sin. You quoted something from a conversation between Beliathon and me, and he knew what I was talking about. I never meant it to be anything against this thread as a whole. And I certainly couldn't care less if (and certainly am not afraid of) homosexuals wanting to marry, more power to them for committing to one person to love for life.

It seems then I didn't have the proper context. I think any rational person would agree that externally forcing changes on religion is pointless. Religious rules may be arbitrary, but any change has to come from within if it is to be viewed as legitimate. The splintering of religious groups throughout history is precipitated by great internal disagreements about what the rules of the religion should be. When these disagreements reach a critical mass, one group just decides to call themselves something else and adopt the changes they want while still adhering to the other tenets of the faith. I don't find the 1/5 statistic to be inconsistent with this process without further context.
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July 20, 2015, 08:08:01 PM
#53
Tolerance and acceptance are two different things. I can tolerate the fact that someone wants to change his gender as it's his decision. You want to chop off your donger, be my guest. Will I accept it as something normal and teach my kid that if he ever feels like chopping off his donger it may mean he's really a woman inside and should get on with it? Hell no! I will never accept this as being normal, natural or whatever.
For your sake and that of your children, I hope they're gender-normative and hetero-normative. Careful though, I find the universe often has a cruel sense of humor.
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