Topic: Usagi: falsifying NAVs, manipulating share prices and misleading investors. - page 5. (Read 92654 times)

I would really prefer that crap like this not show up here.

You can hardly fault the guy for wanting to keep a bit of privacy by obfuscating his name or address.  His customers had no problem dealing with an unknown entity calling himself "usagi", so bringing up the details of his personal life now seems petty and vindictive; hardly evidence of dishonesty.

Oh usagi are you still refusing to acknowledge your name? How's your wife W. doing?

I have a complete proof that your name is Oliver and isn't Serena.

I don't think you're a scammer. I have absolutely no opinion on that, because to form such an opinion I would need to read all through your drivel and that's something for people more masochistic than me.

What I do think is you're a pretentious dramaboat that dunning-krügered itself way too deep into uncharted waters and thats only value lies in occassionally bopping its bow back up to the surface brandishing a huge sign saying "Book your delicious adventure cruise now. We're totally not sinking.", then gets knocked down below again by the angry sea while releasing a swath of meltdown-induced bubbles. So that's kinda entertaining in a way.

update: 

usagi continues to prove his inability to answer to even simple queries.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=133823.new#new

It's possible that's what the plan is. But then why not give me a scammer tag now then, just to shut people up?

Tell you what, greyhawk. Since you think I am a scammer, can you put a number on the bitcoins you feel I scammed? Just saying maybe if you could put a number on it we could discuss who I had to pay off to end the massive crap which is being spewed at me. I'm considering something like 100 bitcoins paid to BMF investors, 100 to CPA, and 100 to NYAN.A/etc. it would take me a while to buy that many bitcoins, and maybe sell some of my personal possessions, but at this point that is more valuable to me than allowing you to lob accusations at me with no chance to defend myself or make repairs. Think about it.

You people are wasting the usagis valuable time embroiling it in scammer tag debates all day every day. The usagis time would be much better spent in winding down it's various so-called "companies" so that it can finally get banned afterwards.

First off I wasn't admitting I had no evidence - I was explaining what motivated me to put effort into looking for evidence in the first place.

As far as getting the situation resolved here's my PERSONAL stance - some others may agree, others will likely disagree.

1.  Scammer tag.  I couldn't much care whether you get a scammer tag or not.  It doesn't achieve anything, it doesn't get handed out to lots of people who deserve it, it's not particularly clear what it even means.
2.  Reparations to investors.  This is a trickier one - would assume most investors don't even have a clue what half the arguing is about or understand some of the things you've done that broke contracts or caused them loss (some of which haven't ever been mentioned yet).  But right now main priority is to get funds back to investors which THEY believe are fair - personally I'd take the view that if you offer them some extra in full and final settlement of any errors/wrong-doing by you to date (i.e. NOT carte blanche to mess up during close down) then if they accept it that's issue ended as far as liability gos.
3.  Going forward.  If you attempt to run new businesses on here then I'd definitely point them to this thread.  I wouldn't go out of my way to cause hassle for you - but if you attempted to misrepresent my position as being that I accepted you were innocent (when, to my mind, paying a settlement is tantamount to acceptance of some degree of guilt) or had no evidence (I have plenty of evidence) then I'd point that out.

FWIW majority of things I've seen that I believe you did wrong (in the sense of morally/culpably wrong, rather than just inept)  relate to dealings between your multiple companies - not to decisions made where you only had to consider the interests of one company (some of those were pretty bad - but in no way worthy of scammer accusations).  Had you only been running one company it's unlikely I'd be making any scam accusations (other than, possibly, over the issue of one computer which appeared to be on BMF's asset list but is now claimed to be your own).

update:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=133823.new#new

You proved me wrong? I was not posting, but YOU PULLED ME BACK IN.

Also your attitude got me involved in the first place. If you weren't an asshole and didn't twist the words (or just outright lie) when you accused EskimoBob I wouldn't be posting right now.

Here is the timeline:

• Puppet questions your NAV being off by 20-50%, and calls it's a scam - PROVEN
• You say it's an average and then you post the formula that is the complete opposite - PROVEN
• That formula wasn't anywhere, it was NOT mentioned in your Sept 23 press release to the investors. And you claimed that you did - PROVEN
• Then you go and edit the spreadsheet and modify them AFTER the accusations and AFTER Sept 23 release - PROVEN

Falsifying NAV is just ONE of the accusations.

References:

1) Puppet's accusation
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=112443.60

2) Proof that usagi is using creative formulas, calls an average while it's far from being an average

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1228703

3) Sep 23's release doesn't mention the formula at all, it simply says an automatic script. No where it says that the scripts is using a formula that is 20-50% off from the reality. You could have done the same by using this formula: usagi_price = mtgox_price * 1.5

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1429162

4) Proof that usagi modified the documentation AFTER accusations

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1428420

edit: I am gonna go through all the posts and find the earliest accusations of manipulating NAV.

Sep 23 accusation: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1214957
Sep 26 accusation: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1222190

Is this post a defense of usgai?

usgai,

you are sperging again.

it will NEVER end....

just produce the documents.

CAN YOU DO THAT?

this is not about your education


this is not about where you grew up

this is not about your attitude

this is not about your gender identification preference

this is not about your age

this it not about what planet you may or may not be the king or queen of..


This is about the simple fact that you can not respond to simple question and identify simple facts about your business.

That is why we are calling you a scammer.

I can admit that. Maybe I'll try to make a change now.


...then you are admitting you have no evidence. Look, I'm sorry I called you a noob. But that does not make me a scammer. Right now I'm a little unsure of how I should proceed with this. BCB screwed this up very badly; I've asked some people I respect for some advice. I'll get back to you. Till then, what do you think of the settlement idea that has been discussed?

As for BCB.....

First, to augustocroppo, thank you. On many levels.


No, the latin he is quoting is not technically an opinion. You are showing a lack of education. This is something I know because I went to a very good school when I was growing up in rural Canada. The latin is referring to the principles of debate. For example, the sort of stuff you might find on http://www.johntreed.com/debate.html or http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Clear_Thinking/Informal_Fallacies/Tricks/tricks.html -- not an opinion.

This is the same principle of the founding of the U.S.A. as "...a nation of laws, not men."

It is not an opinion, for example, that when you accuse me of "sperging", that you are using emotional language, which is a dishonest debate tactic.

Emotional Language
(1) The use of emotionally toned words (pp 10-25)
Approach: Translate the statement into words emotionally neutral
[urlhttp://www.johntreed.com/debate.html]http://www.johntreed.com/debate.html[/url]

I am saying this to mean, I'm constantly suprised by people. I must not get out much. Augustocroppo is suprising me greatly as are you, constantly. I feel I owe him something for educating me on critical thinking, not just for showing me there's still decent human beings out there. See, I am old -- into middle age by now for sure -- and although I know a great deal it comes at the cost of forgetting some things temporarily. One of the things I have forgotten recently is how important debate skills are and how important critical thinking is.

You see, there is ad hominem, which is what you do when you say I am delusional, and then there is pointing out that you are being dishonest in your tactics. I have so far been unwilling to do this because I've been trying to be kind. But after months, and seeing how effective augutocroppo was in getting you to admit the charge of misrepresenting how I value assets was, I'm beginning to realize; K. and D. are right. I need to change my attitude.

Can't say I didn't learn something new. That is important in our lives, I believe, to be able to learn new things without restraint.


We have again and again asked usagai simple questions and he can not answer.

He spurges.
[/quote]

See? There, is some ad hominem (another one of those latin terms!) and some emotional language. "The reason that many Latin phrases are used in the analysis of argument is because most of the work of determining how best to analyze arguments was done by medieval philosophers who wrote in Latin. The idea that the medieval period was some kind of "dark age" where nothing of intellectual value happened is just plain false. Latin phrases are not magical incantations, nor are they themselves influential in a debate. You could describe what is wrong with someone's argument in English, or you could use the Latin phrase as a kind of abbreviation. These latin phrases that still take part in our language are just used for brevity, e.g. it's easier to type 'e.g.', which stands for "exemplia gratia" and translates to "for a good example" than it is to type "for a good example". - http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090831212831AAw6X2N

I think what you are really trying to say is I provide a lot of information. Well I'm sorry if you have trouble reading it, but I am a native speaker from the country; we talk a lot and we like to express ourselves. I'm also a 20-year usenet veteran. Honestly, if you don't like it, may I suggest taking some English classes? I am not criticizing your English, I am suggesting you need to learn how native people express themselves. You know, get used to it a bit. Accusing me of sperging when it's obvious you are having issues with basic spelling and grammar, and therefore are likely not a native speaker, is a little weird. What, you want a TL; DR? Okay here it is: You have obvious problems with comprehension because your English really is that bad. I've been putting up with it for quite some time but it's actually become annoying how you jump to conclusions and demand every little detail and then turn around and show a shocking lack of respect for intellectually honest debate.

Yes, it really is that bad.


You are lying. Stochastic came to my defense. As did many others which you must surely have seen. The problem is, that it's a one in five phenomenon. The trolls are interested in outshouting EVERYONE. So when the odd person speaks up -- like Luceo for example, it gets buried.


Do what you want. I no longer consider you credible. That makes me sad. But, please, continue to update your locked thread. I promise I will get through it all -- at least until it becomes morbidly ridiculous to answer. I guess we will see what happens.

Ok.  That's your opinion.  I respect that.

I will continue my campaign until someone can show me that I am wrong.

Thank you.

You beg me? What pity histrionic user you are...

I have no obligation to honor your demands, BCB.

If this situations is a "nightmare" for you, and you want 'this all go away', just leave. You are not being forced to accuse Usagi. It was your choice to indict Usagi, therefore is up to you to prove your claims are true. So far, Usagi have provided enough evidence which proves he did not defrauded any potential investor. Now is up to you assess the evidence and formulate a conclusion which proves the contrary.

Ian

usagi's attitude and his aggressive business practices again other bitcoin business he may perceive as competitors is not scamming.

If you have facts that show he broke promises to he users or did not honor his contracts please post it here.

Thank you.

augusto,

This is not a court of law.

I am not a judge.

I am not a jury.

I'm just another guy on the internet with a very strong opinion.  

Just like assholes.  We all have one!

You can quote all the latin you like.  

You too are entitled to your opinion

We have again and again asked usagai simple questions and he can not answer.

He spurges.

He answers questions he was not asked.

Many Many community members have accused him of many many thing.

You are the only one who has come to his defense.  And to me it seems you are more interested in attacking me then defending usagi.

I respect your opinion and you too are entitled to it.   But I don't agree with it.

Please I BEG you prove usgai is not a scammer and make this all go away.

Until then I continue to hold that Usgai is a scammer.

You need to understand that your attitude has a LOT to with where you are.  It certainly has a LOT to do with how doggedly I've pursued the issue.

Would suggest you go back to the CPA thread and find your response to the very first post I ever made about you.  Back then I was looking into a load of companies as I'd retuend to being active after not posting here much (if at all) for the best part of year.  I posted in your thread asking about the BMF contract and why it hadn't been paid out on.  At that point I was a potential investor - with no prior interaction with you - and no preconceived ideas about you.

Your response - and the attitude you had - convinced me there was something very dubious going on.  As no way would someone accused of something who was innocent just call the accuser (and it wasn't actually an accusation - just a question of why it hadn't been paid out on)  a noob and tell them to get lost.  They'd explain WHY it hadn't been paid out on - so noone else reading the thread was left with questions over it.

Noone had raised that issue back then - so it's not like I was repeating something you'd answered loads of times before: it had never been mentioned in any thread.

So maybe next time you call someone a noob and tell them to get lost you may want to reflect on just how well that tactic worked on me.  Some people WILL go away if you just insult them and tell them they're wrong (without explaining why).  Others won't - and if you try it on them you're making a huge problem for yourself.  If you can't explain why you're right (and they're wrong) then consider that maybe you're the one who's wrong.  If you CAN explain why you're right (and they're wrong) then do so rather than insulting.  Of course if you KNOW you're wrong then maybe the only option you have IS to insult - which was my immediate thought when you insulted me rather than showed how I was wrong (I WAS wrong on one specific detail - which you pointed out, but zero explanation of why there was no claim).

So yeah - the time I've spent working out what you've done wrong wasn't because I'm a sock-puppet.  It wasn't because someone paid me to do it.  It wasn't because I was trying to manipulate your share prices.  It WAS because your attitude stank - and made no sense unless there was something you were trying to cover up.  And that attitude was BEFORE (as far as I'm aware) there were any allegations against you at all.  So, as far as my participation is concerned at least, your attitude has a hell of a lot to do with where we are now.

Reductio ad absurdum

You are doing a demand over the belief that Usagi was already sentenced for the supposedly crimes he committed. That is not true. You are not an arbiter because you have already confessed personal bias and willful ignorance in this case. Therefore, Usagi remains only suspicious of the accusations you made against him.

Moreover, you are not aware of the principle of in dubio pro reo (presumption of innocence). That is why this case have lasted so long. Until you present an concise summary of irrefutable evidence to prove that Usagi is guilty of attempt of fraud, you have no recourse to qualify him guilty of a supposedly crime.


Your reputation had lost a great deal of value by now.


That is up to you. If you like to take part in defamation campaigns, no one will stop you.

1. GLBSE fall down go boom. I do not have access to my CSV file. This does not mean I am a scammer.

**MANY MANY links in your threads point to YOUR personal wordpress website that you admitted to deleting not to GLBSE.  Please produce these documents.  If you do not you are a scammer.  Not once where you asked to produce GLBSE documents.  Again you try to CHANGE the question.

2. I live in China. And for what it matters, I am the princess of the moon.
**Then why did you try to imply you lived in Japan in response to Vampire's   timestamped documents to show you altered financial statments?  You continue to prove you are a lier.

3. No I am not a scammer. I want to try and resolve this quickly now. If you are willing to work for the shareholders, why not consider a settlement? It's something I don't have to do. Think about it -- if it's clear I won't work in the community again, what's the problem with helping me do the right thing and giving money to shareholders? Either you agree that I can resolve this in principle, or you just fired yourself as arbiter.


This is not about money.  This is a SCAMMER thread it is a manufactured conceit of the bitcointalk community to identify bitcointalk user who break promises and contracts and carry out other fradulent act against other community members.   All of the evidence presented has show that you:

Broke Promices
Ignored your contractes
Manipulated Asset Values
Continue to lie
can not answer simple questions
chose to obfuscate by sperging with every post you make.

Choose your next words to me carefully, I refuse to participate with you if you're going to give me the runaround: Are you going to help me settle this or not? I want to propose a settlement, and this is literally the fifth time I am asking for a response from you on that.

I am not here to settle the mess you made. I am here to call you a scammer.  I never once asked you for a settlement.  I don't care if you settle.  If your share holders would like you to settle that it between you and them.

I have asked you simple question.

Explain why you deleted over 1000 posts and the entire contents of your website containing material evidence if the evidence could serve to prove you are not a scammer.

Produce these deleted documents that server to prove you are not a scammer.

YOU CANNOT BECAUSE YOU ARE A SCAMMER.   AND THE ACCUSATIONS ARE TRUE.  I DEFY YOU AND AUGUSTOCROPPO TO PRESENT ANY FACT THAT WOULD HELP YOU PROVE YOU ARE NOT A SCAMMER.

When you showed that the timestamps in Vampires posts were not accurate I took those off the table.  Then in reading your deleted post I uncover more evidence that you continued to creatively value your assets to benefit you and your business and not your shareholders.

You stated in one of you deleted post in my locked thread and I quote "I have exact records for every trade done in NYAN, BMF, and CPA. I can provide and explain these records upon demand, as anyone else who did the trades would be expected to do."

Please produce this evidence if you want to defend you good name.  If you can not then you are a liar and deceived and misled your shareholders.  And if you relied solely  on the records of GLBSE to value your assets then that just provides additional proof of you incompetence and you inability to manage financial assets.
 

My attitude: I have a right to be angry because for months I have had to put up with insults and derogatory comments from people like vampire, whose allegations have now been proven false. You think about that for a moment before you criticize me for my attitude.

The amount of crap I have had to put up with is unbelievable. I'm sorry if you feel I am slimy. I am mad, tired, sick and broken. What this amounts to is that if I cannot work with BCB to arrive at a settlement then I will pursue a settlement on my own. As for your other comments, thank you. I am in fact winding down my companies in as open and fair a way as I can. I have this: NYAN/BMF/CPA final claims process which is currently the most open and informative closing down post ever. In comparison, MERGEDMINING for example, announced an arbitrary date (the 19th of december) that shareholders had to make a manual settlement. He ignored the GLBSE claims process. What do you think, am I doing a better job closing down my asset? That is what is really important here. And if damages are ever to be settled now is the time while I am closing down and making final payments.

Now is the time I need to make a reparation to shareholders if ever. Doesn't that make sense?