Topic: Usagi: falsifying NAVs, manipulating share prices and misleading investors. - page 9. (Read 92654 times)

http://kongzi.ca/BCB/misrepresent1/2012-38-statement.txt


This is your proof that it's ok to use creative formulas?

Because that portion says that you're going to pull the data automatically, nowhere it says that it will use MAX. Again you're twisting your own words.

Not only did you just quote me citing the webpage, but:


It appears you are unable (or more likely, unwilling) to respond to the evidence I have provided. When I get some time I will note on the webpage you and BCB are refusing to respond to the evidence I have provided, and therefore you have admitted, in principle, you cannot continue with that accusation against me.

Looks like one down, fifty six to go.

You failed to provide the citations. Therefor you're a scammer in my book. I already proved that your webpage is a load of crap.

You know I posted this on kongzi.ca/BCB because you said you saved those pages to your hard drive. Additionally, I announced kongzi.ca/BCB/misrepresent1 in the "Response to BCB" locked thread. But for what it's worth, there's your citation. Take your time, it's new years. Relax man, have a beer. It's not so serious. We'll work through it, I'm not going anywhere. Trust me.

Citation required.

If you're talking about MY quote, What you said, it isn't a scam. Meaning you were ALREADY accused of scam.


Citation required.

Fours days prior of which compliant?


Citation required.

All citations must have an independent timestamp that can be verified.

So you're saying that I did not publish the max formula in a footnote tied directly to the statement where I said "average"?

So you're saying that I did not publish in NYAN shareholder letter 38, dated September 23rd, four days before your complaint, that we were moving to a script-based formula?

So you're saying that I did not edit the spreadsheets to use the max formula (as posted in the footnote) on or before September 23rd, and not changed the formula at all since, even to this day?

Because right now it's looking like you're more than biased. Right now it's looking like you're wrong. Care to respond to the above?

Citation required. Since your screenshots prove COMPLETELY opposite.


Against twisting my words. All my of complaints are based on FACTS. Your facts are a fantasy of a scammer. It's hard not to be biased against you, since you just LIE and LIE more.



3) You're dumb and you fabricated the evidence.

Noted: Thanks for agreeing with me. Now since usagi acknowledged that he's a scammer lets tag him
(And that's exactly how usagi twists the words and quotes. But since he thinks it's alright for him then it's fine by me to use the same tactics)



You have provided ZERO evidence.  You're incapable of providing anything but LIES. I already proved that your evidence is LIES.

No, I have provided factual, material evidence that I had a) announced the new valuation in a shareholder letter four days before your complaint, b) published the new formula on the webpage four days before your complaint, and c) did not change the formula when I added the plaintext copy of the formula to the BMF webpage in order to avoid any possible future misunderstanding.

Additionally it is blatantly obvious you are just looking for an excuse to blame me, as I published the actual formula cut-and-paste from the spreadsheet right beside my explanation of the formula. If you are really so blind and desperate that this is the only way you can accuse me of scamming, then your grasping of straws has become obvious and it is clear you have no real evidence against me. BCB's jumping to conclusions and accusing me of stealing company funds and of editing the document "to cover up etc." without posting any evidence whatsoever and not allowing me time to respond to the claims, just underscores how ridiculous you have become.


So you admit that you aren't considering fact and evidence in your evaluation of me? Thanks. I'll be sure to make a note of that.


Third option.


Let's play a game. You respond to the evidence I have provided and we'll move on to the next accusation. Eventually we will cover every accusation that BCB has made in his locked thread. If you are unable to do this then it's clear you have no response to the evidence I have provided, and you have no case. As it stands you seem incapable of dealing with what is actually being presented. Your self-admitted bias is causing you to lose this debate.

Too much BS usgai. Please just post facts to refute. Unfortunately no one believes you. Fortunately for you facts can't lie.

Puppet. Please confirm this last point that you were wrong

Thank you

What? Keep lying. No, I didnt have knowledge of anything.

The fact is: until you were told that your numbers are shit, there were no mentioning anywhere that you were using creative formulas. You edited the spreadsheets RIGHT after this.


Puppet said that he was wrong? Really? I really want to see where he said "I am wrong, your pricing calculations totally matches MTGOX and not off by 20%". You are a liar, I wouldn't believe you for a microsecond. Especially in that thread - HE DIDN'T.

Yes, I am biased against you. Because you're A LIAR, A CHEAT. I haven't seen any truth coming out of you, just a twisted reality. I became biased when you started the baseless accusations against EskimoBob...

Now you have tried to fabricate evidence or you're just dumb? And why your google set to PST, forums are set to GMT, and you're supposedly in China?

This is confusing even to me. Looks like I made a mistake because of the timezones. However, accusing me of doing it intentionally is pretty dumb, no I did not change my forum settings to GMT just for this -- that's just obfuscating the issue, which is whether or not I misrepresented how I valued the assets. Stop blowing smoke. There is plenty of additional evidence that I did not intend to misrepresent the formula even on the page you quoted; but I will shortly be providing additional evidence (listed below). Here's the existing evidence that continues to refute what you have to say:

(#2). The formula was posted in the same message as the statement, marked with an asterisk. It was simply a typo. You should have known this and asked why I said average when the formula on the very next line clearly said max, instead of jumping to an illogical conclusion that I was trying to lie. You should have given me a fair opportunity to correct myself.
(#3). The comment was made in a thread unrelated to my companies which was not being used to advertise or promote my companies nor how I valued my companies.

Summary of the additional factual evidence I will provide:
-- Proof the formula was public on the webpage for four days prior to your complaint (thus justifying that it was a mistake) as advertised in 2012-38-NYAN-statement dated September 23rd, 2012
-- further to the above, that the webpage was not changed again until I added the formula, in plaintext, to make sure no one made any mistakes on how we valued the fund.
-- Investors were encouraged to send questions about anything they did not understand (Ex. bottom of 2012-37-NYAN-statement)
-- 2012-38-NYAN-statement dated September 23rd, 2012 which discusses the shift to using an automatic value and further encourages investors to contact me with any questions
-- Quotes from the Securities Forum which show we were discussing a good way to pull data off the GLBSE, and therefore that I was engaged with investors, listening to their concerns, and implementing them as any good fund manager would do.

Evidence that is apparent from existing data but which will be pointed out more clearly on the webpage:
-- The column in question is NOT the only value which was provided. There was the analysis value, as described in part above, as well.
-- letters to shareholders 2012-37-NYAN-statement dated September 16th in which how I value companies using analysis is discussed. This explanation was given because people were beginning to question how I valued my securities. Central to this issue is the so-called "Real Value" column. I hated pulling data off GLBSE and I made sure everyone knew that (see existing webpage which will be updated with the new info soon).


No, and it is illogical that you jump to that conclusion without first allowing me my rightful time to prepare a defense. Both you and BCB, in doing that, have demonstrated once again your incredible bias against me. The facts, on the other hand, speak for themselves. You, in full knowledge that we had been valuing securities in that way for four straight days, seized upon the chance to do me in when I made a typo. Shame on you.

All investors were notified we made a change to how we value securities, all investors knew about the spreadsheet and could see for themselves. When confusion arose I immediately stepped in and clarified the formula on the spreadsheet. Yet for some reason you insist I was trying to deceive people. You are not being logical.

p.s.


That's not a nail. Puppet later admitted he was wrong in that specific instance. If and when I find the post on the securities forum (we only have quotes that bled over from the EskimoBob thread ATM) I'll post it on the webpage too.

Hey usagi,

The next time you lie make sure that your lies make sense:

Let's see your webpage here, that I saved to my HD: http://kongzi.ca/BCB/misrepresent1/

Here is your quote from there:


Your screenshot show google's timestamp in PT zone...



So what's earlier 11:24AM EST or 11:31AM PST (or 2:31PM EST)?

Your page proves nothing. Because days prior you were questioned why the value of the market column is so far from reality. Too bad you can't erase my quotes ah?

Now let's see 11:24AM EST is 8:24AM PST...

Which is earlier than all of your screenshots. The earliest you got is at 10:18AM PT. Thanks google for timestamping that.

And the final nail:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1225553

Puppet accuses you of fabricating numbers at 11:35AM EST or 8:35AM PST


In the other words you tried to edit the documents post factum.

Make sure you give all your evidence to BCB so he can post it in his thread.

Hypocrisy at his best.

You made a thread accusing me and others of scamming.

There's 10 seperate accusations against me in it.

YOU locked the thread.

Your evidence for each of the 10 accusations against me was pretty much the same - you quoted me and said I was lieing/defrauding/defaming but provided no evidence to support your allegation.

One of the allegations you repeated in a seperate post in the thread.

Here it is in its entirety (can't quote it properly as you locked the thread).

"10. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1271394
"You've said a few times in this thread that EVERYTHING you had was invested on GLBSE - yet that isn't actually true is it?"
During the times BMF had hardware on order I had never failed to mention that. A shareholder motion was created over the issue of buying hardware. I made a very public series of posts about it. I never once tried to hide the fact we had a small amount of hardware. I mentioned it several times in PM to various creditors."

So - I was apparently lieing/defruading you/libelling you/whatever when I said that everything you had being on GLBSE wasn't true.

Yet TODAY you've admitted you actually have pre-orders that you're cancelling.  Those aren't on GLBSE are they?  So what was untrue with my statement - let alone causing you harm?  Obviously at that time you were trying to PRETEND you only had GLBSE assets - to the extent you made a scam accusation against someone for saying that wasn't true.

And when I pointed out how obviously you were wrong you went and locked the thread.

And NOW, having made accusations against me where you never provided evidence or demonstrated loss (impossible when your allegations were false) you somehow feel morally entitled to make a thread berating others for the low quality of their own scam accusations?

And having locked a thread accusing others - so they couldn't respond - you now whine about someone doing the same to you?

Pretty despicable really.

I mean, wtf are we still yapping about? Seriously!
 
Usagi:
1) Did you misrepresent  the financial state of your so called companies (NYAN*, CPA, all the rest of them)  - YES
2) Did you falsify NAV of portfolios under your management - YES
3) Did you overvalued illiquid junk in portfolios under your management-  YES (see 1 and 2)
4) Did you delete over one thousand posts (or was it closer to 2K?), including all the contacts, promises you made, "good news" you published etc from bitcointalk - YES


Moderators, for fuck sake, how many of those do you need?
Usagi's only job now is to clean up this mess by returning the coin to investors. When this is done, he must fuck off for good.

One more thing. Usagi, stop dragging my name into your fkn drama. Only thing I have done wrong  is not scream loud enough, when I realized how incompetent you actually are. My bad.
Pupet, Deprived, Deeplink and multiple other forum members have pointed out countless times what is/was wrong. You still ask for proof? It's all here!

BCB is treating me in an unfair and biased manner. He has ignored evidence I have given him, refused to read old threads, taken deprived, bakewell and others at their word (without evidence) and called me delusional, a horrible fund manager, and a liar -- even before he obtained any evidence beyond vampire's pathetic "typo accusation" (kongzi.ca/BCB/misrepresent1). In PM he has stated he will refuse to read my posts. He has a locked thread accusing me of stealing company funds, and he has not provided any evidence for that, nor most of his other claims.

I demand that I be allowed to respond to his allegations. OTOH I do recognize it's becoming even more spammy than it was before, since BCB decided to open a new thread on me. So I am responding on a website to keep the spam and drama down. You can read it or not, I don't care. But slowly, everything BCB has accused me of will be responded to simply and clearly.

If he did not post evidence in his nice and clean locked thread, I will point it out there. Good day.

Stop making new fucking threads. I reported you for spamming.

No, I don't need defenders -- you need to provide evidence. The onus is on you to provide evidence for your claim I scammed, and not for me to try to prove a negative by providing supporters or defenders.

Although you have shown a very strong and clear bias against me, it is also true that you have provided some evidence. So I am going to ignore your attitude and say Thank you. Thank you for agreeing to be a central clearing house for the complaints against me. I suggest that if anyone has any evidence whatsoever, they now send it to BCB, or forever hold their peace.

I am now preparing a response, which will be posted at kongzi.ca/BCB

To BCB, I suggest you publish as much evidence as you can in the locked thread, and I will make a single response with the facts as I can provide them. I will not respond to accusations made where you have not provided evidence; I will merely catalogue your accusation and note that no evidence has been provided. And, I will link to your thread extensively to show that is the case. So, you better go now and post your evidence.

Remember, bias is not evidence. But good luck with that,

usagi

I don't think we really need any more accusations.  You need some defenders. 

Where are they.

I'm glad to update my locked thread with any FACTS that refute the conclusions I'm drawn based on specific information provided by community members.

Thanks.

No. While I've updated the thread I locked with the e-mails from BFL and a few more comments, I agree with you that the forums have become a very poor place to make and respond to scam accusation threads. Hence the original intent of posts like Onus and Remedy in Scam Accusation Threads before they got derailed by people out for blood.

I'll instead post a full response here: kongzi.ca/BCB

Any accusation you make and which BCB sees fit to publish will eventually be responded to there. BCB has offered himself as a central clearing house for complaints; I suggest, if you have something to say, you give it to him now.