Using ToS against users normal? - page 12.

maydna

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Quote from: Wiwo on June 21, 2023, 01:53:19 PM

I believe that there is no loss in reading the TOS of a gambling site before registering because that is what will provide you with the guide on how to protect yourself from falling into trouble while you are playing on the site, but a lot of gamblers don't take note of that and at the end fall into problems on the long run and this is something the great of us should learn from.

We have to read the terms and conditions of the casino we want to gamble on for the long term, what I do is read only the TOS of the casinos I like most since the document can be large sometimesmes.

That is the point because by reading the TOS, we can know more about the rules made by the casino so that we don't experience any problems while playing gambling. We also have to pay attention to what is allowed and what is not allowed because this has been experienced by many gamblers who are not careful in reading their TOS. Even though reading the TOS might take a long time, it's still worth doing because it's for our own good in playing gambling. Later, if we win and want to withdraw the money, we already know what to do to withdraw the money smoothly.

Quote from: danadc on June 21, 2023, 04:03:01 PM

I never trust something like that, for me it is very important that the things that can occur such as having the terms correctly set without changes, because first I am not a player who always reads the terms, I have gotten rough for not reading, And if I enter a casino where I read the terms and I don't see anything favorable to me but that it is constantly changing, I don't stay because that is something that does not give me confidence, how can I trust a casino like this? there is no way, if I see that they change it is because they do it at the convenience of the casino, they will never do it to benefit the players, they will not be stupid to do it.

The rules at the casino can change at any time, without or with notification and this requires our attention so that we can be aware of these changes and we need to adapt to the new regulations. It's better for us to take a moment to know the rules than to regret them later because when we want to withdraw the winning money but find ourselves in trouble, it will disappoint us. There may be a reason the casino changed the rules so that people who don't see the TOS can get in trouble. But a trusted and good casino will always notify you if there is a change in the rules.

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Quote from: Hamphser on June 21, 2023, 05:47:47 PM

Quote from: danadc on June 21, 2023, 04:03:01 PM

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99% on which most of us do really neglect out on reading up TOS on which it would really be a reason on why we do users do really experience out that kind of problem on which on the time that they would be making

out some silent changes or doesnt really able to make some announcement then it would really make lots of people would really be committing out such violation on which means that lots of users funds would be locked up or would be forfeited or something like that. It is really thats somewhat shady if they do really have that kind of behavior on which it would really be just that ethical if they would be at least
having those kind of small announcement about telling the users that they made up some changes.

Despite on not really that too relevant or something that not necessary but having at least the time on saying up such changes would be more preferable.

Your worries about platforms skipping user alerts on service term updates are justifiable. It breaches the transparency ethos, a cornerstone of the Bitcoin community. Clearly, platforms must up their game. Tools like auto-alerts or bulletins could pave the path. Not only boosting transparency, but nurturing community trust and fairness. Despite hurdles, Im optimistic. Bitcoin's essence invites self-regulation. As a collective, we can urge platforms to raise their standards. United, we can effect change.

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Quote from: SamReomo on June 21, 2023, 03:24:14 PM

Some of those gamblers use VPN to hide their real IP address, and most of those VPN's are free, and they all share the same IP addresses to all users. Even if a single user who visit the site using the VPN's IP address performs a malicious activity, the all users on the IP address could face troubles in future.

Although generally, VPNs are mostly accepted by some gambling sites, users just have to make sure that they are using them for a good purpose.

It's fine to hide the IP address as long as the user is still accessing the site in a supported country or region.

But in the case of using VPN in the prohibited countries, that was a different story and is now subject to account suspension or possibly termination.

Quote from: SamReomo on June 21, 2023, 03:24:14 PM

A gambler should read the T&C of a gambling site carefully before doing any kind of gambling on that casino, otherwise they will have to bear the consequences of their greediness.

How does greediness have something to do with it? Users just want to gamble.

If you are referring to bonuses, it's actually tough to abuse bonuses nowadays. Gambling sites are wise.

Hamphser

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Quote from: danadc on June 21, 2023, 04:03:01 PM

Quote from: maydna on June 21, 2023, 10:38:06 AM

Quote from: Jawhead999 on June 19, 2023, 08:57:00 AM

Quote from: maydna on June 19, 2023, 08:48:17 AM

If they never want to check the rules, they can miss the information if there is a change in the rules, and they can have difficulties when they want to withdraw the money. Even though we don't chase victory either, we also have to check the rules regularly to adjust properly because if we are lucky, we can win a lot of money. And if we don't check the rules before playing and it turns out that we win a lot of money, that can make us have to do something to be able to withdraw the winning money. So there's nothing wrong if we check the rules so we won't be disappointed later.

Terms of service in any regulated site is really long and you need to spend for at least 30 minutes to read an entire rules. The question is, how regular you read the whole terms? everyday? every week? every month? it's time wasting if your life is only used to read the casino terms.

Usually a regulated casino terms is similar to each other, they will ask to submit KYC including ask video or live, if you don't want to fulfill it, you will not able to withdraw your big winnings.

How come it's a waste of time? It's worth doing to see if there is a change or you can also wait until there is notification from the casino about the change in the rules. Perhaps, once a month could be the time to read the rules. After all, it's for your own good rather than later regret because of a rule change.

Well, it's usually like that but we don't know what changes the casino will make. For this reason, we must try to find out for ourselves. If we have done KYC, it seems like everything will be fine, but who knows?

I never trust something like that, for me it is very important that the things that can occur such as having the terms correctly set without changes, because first I am not a player who always reads the terms, I have gotten rough for not reading, And if I enter a casino where I read the terms and I don't see anything favorable to me but that it is constantly changing, I don't stay because that is something that does not give me confidence, how can I trust a casino like this? there is no way, if I see that they change it is because they do it at the convenience of the casino, they will never do it to benefit the players, they will not be stupid to do it.

99% on which most of us do really neglect out on reading up TOS on which it would really be a reason on why we do users do really experience out that kind of problem on which on the time that they would be making

out some silent changes or doesnt really able to make some announcement then it would really make lots of people would really be committing out such violation on which means that lots of users funds would be locked up or would be forfeited or something like that. It is really thats somewhat shady if they do really have that kind of behavior on which it would really be just that ethical if they would be at least
having those kind of small announcement about telling the users that they made up some changes.

Despite on not really that too relevant or something that not necessary but having at least the time on saying up such changes would be more preferable.

Renampun

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Quote from: KiaKia on May 25, 2023, 07:48:32 AM

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites? Then when you did something wrong or about to withdraw your money they will tell you that you don't read their terms and conditions, and you start arguing with them until you decide to read the ToS again and you find out that it's different.

Some gambling websites consist of wicked owners that willingly plan to defraud their users using the ToS against them, or is this normal? Have such happened to anyone on this forum before?

Trusted gambling sites will definitely keep their users informed about any events or changes that occur to their gambling sites (especially for countries that are not so friendly to casinos and cryptocurrency). changes will always be there and we can't refuse it but if the TOS changes in the casino, they don't inform the user in advance then most likely the site is trying to deceive users (immediately withdraw your money and leave the gambling site before they make it difficult for you to do that).

danadc

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Quote from: maydna on June 21, 2023, 10:38:06 AM

Quote from: Jawhead999 on June 19, 2023, 08:57:00 AM

Quote from: maydna on June 19, 2023, 08:48:17 AM

If they never want to check the rules, they can miss the information if there is a change in the rules, and they can have difficulties when they want to withdraw the money. Even though we don't chase victory either, we also have to check the rules regularly to adjust properly because if we are lucky, we can win a lot of money. And if we don't check the rules before playing and it turns out that we win a lot of money, that can make us have to do something to be able to withdraw the winning money. So there's nothing wrong if we check the rules so we won't be disappointed later.

Terms of service in any regulated site is really long and you need to spend for at least 30 minutes to read an entire rules. The question is, how regular you read the whole terms? everyday? every week? every month? it's time wasting if your life is only used to read the casino terms.

Usually a regulated casino terms is similar to each other, they will ask to submit KYC including ask video or live, if you don't want to fulfill it, you will not able to withdraw your big winnings.

How come it's a waste of time? It's worth doing to see if there is a change or you can also wait until there is notification from the casino about the change in the rules. Perhaps, once a month could be the time to read the rules. After all, it's for your own good rather than later regret because of a rule change.

Well, it's usually like that but we don't know what changes the casino will make. For this reason, we must try to find out for ourselves. If we have done KYC, it seems like everything will be fine, but who knows?

I never trust something like that, for me it is very important that the things that can occur such as having the terms correctly set without changes, because first I am not a player who always reads the terms, I have gotten rough for not reading, And if I enter a casino where I read the terms and I don't see anything favorable to me but that it is constantly changing, I don't stay because that is something that does not give me confidence, how can I trust a casino like this? there is no way, if I see that they change it is because they do it at the convenience of the casino, they will never do it to benefit the players, they will not be stupid to do it.

Fortify

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Quote from: KiaKia on May 25, 2023, 07:48:32 AM

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites? Then when you did something wrong or about to withdraw your money they will tell you that you don't read their terms and conditions, and you start arguing with them until you decide to read the ToS again and you find out that it's different.

Some gambling websites consist of wicked owners that willingly plan to defraud their users using the ToS against them, or is this normal? Have such happened to anyone on this forum before?

It's worth pointing out that terms of service cannot overrule the rule of law in the relevant jurisdictions and if they try to impose unfair rule changes by stealth then they can possibly open themselves up to all sorts of legal remedies. However, it is an unusual scenario to see a major rule change that would be unfair to most users because they are usually just small tweaks made when new avenues of abuse are opened up against the casinos. Things like this are very bad for business and many sites usually evolve over time but have the foundations of their terms of service pretty broad at the beginning. Sometimes it'll work in the users favor if they get more specific about certain scenarios that may apply or it might even be initiated by legal action against them.

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Quote from: South Park on June 21, 2023, 03:05:15 PM

Quote from: Wiwo on June 21, 2023, 01:53:19 PM

I believe that there is no loss in reading the TOS of a gambling site before registering because that is what will provide you with the guide on how to protect yourself from falling into trouble while you are playing on the site, but a lot of gamblers don't take note of that and at the end fall into problems on the long run and this is something the great of us should learn from.

We have to read the terms and conditions of the casino we want to gamble on for the long term, what I do is read only the TOS of the casinos I like most since the document can be large sometimesmes.

Most people do not bother reading the terms of service of each casino as they think every casino out there is using a similar template and the rules should be roughly the same, and while they may have a point there, just a small difference in one rule can be the difference between becoming profitable and getting your account closed down because you violated one of their rules, so whenever a gambler begins to gamble at a new casino they need to read those terms so they do not get surprised with some unfair rules the casino could have put there.

That's very true because it's a fact that most of the gamblers avoid reading T&C of a casino site, and they doesn't care if the Casino has any strict rules or not. Many gamblers start gambling as soon as they register their account, and few people just deposit crypto-currencies and doesn't even care about KYC because of the entertainment part. That's the main reason why most of the gamblers accounts are frozen.

Some of those gamblers use VPN to hide their real IP address, and most of those VPN's are free, and they all share the same IP addresses to all users. Even if a single user who visit the site using the VPN's IP address performs a malicious activity, the all users on the IP address could face troubles in future. A gambler should read the T&C of a gambling site carefully before doing any kind of gambling on that casino, otherwise they will have to bear the consequences of their greediness.

South Park

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Quote from: Wiwo on June 21, 2023, 01:53:19 PM

I believe that there is no loss in reading the TOS of a gambling site before registering because that is what will provide you with the guide on how to protect yourself from falling into trouble while you are playing on the site, but a lot of gamblers don't take note of that and at the end fall into problems on the long run and this is something the great of us should learn from.

We have to read the terms and conditions of the casino we want to gamble on for the long term, what I do is read only the TOS of the casinos I like most since the document can be large sometimesmes.

Most people do not bother reading the terms of service of each casino as they think every casino out there is using a similar template and the rules should be roughly the same, and while they may have a point there, just a small difference in one rule can be the difference between becoming profitable and getting your account closed down because you violated one of their rules, so whenever a gambler begins to gamble at a new casino they need to read those terms so they do not get surprised with some unfair rules the casino could have put there.

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Quote from: Mr.right85 on June 21, 2023, 01:52:52 PM

Quote from: KiaKia on May 25, 2023, 07:48:32 AM

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites? Then when you did something wrong or about to withdraw your money they will tell you that you don't read their terms and conditions, and you start arguing with them until you decide to read the ToS again and you find out that it's different.

Some gambling websites consist of wicked owners that willingly plan to defraud their users using the ToS against them, or is this normal? Have such happened to anyone on this forum before?

I don't find it abnormal for gambling sites to update there terms of service. What I find unusual is them having not yo send it out to there customers, using whatever means of notification available to them like they do with there promotions. That's outrightly wrong and casinosbor sportsbook found with this sort of behaviour should look into it or looked into.
Terms of service updated after registration is usually not considered binding on old existing customers except given the opportunity to reconsider there stands with the update. That's what's obtainable and how it should be done.
There are news feeds and even at that, the mails be sent out as a means of fulfilling all righteousness.

This is a fraudulent act and they are based on different reasons that we might not know. Some time they may send the updated terms and conditions to some gamblers why leaving others without notifying them. This is why we need to use casinos thatbhave at least some good reputation even though in the past. I know people chances likewise casinos too.

It is better for us to choose from the casinos that have there threads on this forum so that when we have problem, we can easily run to the for our problem to be resolve without plenty writeups and complaints. This is a safe place where there are plenty of casinos where we can always move from one casino to another without having a problem of withdrawal or scam. So many threads here that we can check and reach the team anytime we have problems to be resolved.

Wiwo

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Quote from: maydna on June 21, 2023, 01:40:06 PM

Quote from: pawel7777 on June 21, 2023, 11:22:00 AM

Quote from: maydna on June 21, 2023, 10:38:06 AM

How come it's a waste of time? It's worth doing to see if there is a change or you can also wait until there is notification from the casino about the change in the rules. Perhaps, once a month could be the time to read the rules. After all, it's for your own good rather than later regret because of a rule change.

Well, it's usually like that but we don't know what changes the casino will make. For this reason, we must try to find out for ourselves. If we have done KYC, it seems like everything will be fine, but who knows?

Do you actually do that yourself, or just decided it's a smart thing to preach to others? Do you actually dedicate a big chunk of your life to sit down and studying all the ToSs of all the services that you use just to see if there have been any changes (do you run version compare in Word lol)?

Yes, reading entire ToSs is usually pointless, unless you want to learn about some specific rule that interests you, but for an average, regular user, that's not necessary and nobody does that in practice (yourself included).

I do it myself, but since I don't gamble too much, I don't need it because I only gamble for fun and not for the pursuit of winning. I don't need to read all the ToS of all services because I've seen several notifications sent to my email or when I log in to my account. If you are a real gambler, you certainly don't want to get into trouble just for not reading the changes in the rules, do you? Grin

Usually, the casino will notify all of its members if there is a change in the rules. The last time I looked at Stake, it popped up a window containing its latest rules and asking gamblers to agree to them.

I believe that there is no loss in reading the TOS of a gambling site before registering because that is what will provide you with the guide on how to protect yourself from falling into trouble while you are playing on the site, but a lot of gamblers don't take note of that and at the end fall into problems on the long run and this is something the great of us should learn from.

We have to read the terms and conditions of the casino we want to gamble on for the long term, what I do is read only the TOS of the casinos I like most since the document can be large sometimesmes.

Mr.right85

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Quote from: KiaKia on May 25, 2023, 07:48:32 AM

Changing of terms and conditions without notifying the users or gamblers is normal with online gambling websites? Then when you did something wrong or about to withdraw your money they will tell you that you don't read their terms and conditions, and you start arguing with them until you decide to read the ToS again and you find out that it's different.

Some gambling websites consist of wicked owners that willingly plan to defraud their users using the ToS against them, or is this normal? Have such happened to anyone on this forum before?

I don't find it abnormal for gambling sites to update there terms of service. What I find unusual is them having not yo send it out to there customers, using whatever means of notification available to them like they do with there promotions. That's outrightly wrong and casinosbor sportsbook found with this sort of behaviour should look into it or looked into.
Terms of service updated after registration is usually not considered binding on old existing customers except given the opportunity to reconsider there stands with the update. That's what's obtainable and how it should be done.
There are news feeds and even at that, the mails be sent out as a means of fulfilling all righteousness.

maydna

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Quote from: pawel7777 on June 21, 2023, 11:22:00 AM

Quote from: maydna on June 21, 2023, 10:38:06 AM

How come it's a waste of time? It's worth doing to see if there is a change or you can also wait until there is notification from the casino about the change in the rules. Perhaps, once a month could be the time to read the rules. After all, it's for your own good rather than later regret because of a rule change.

Well, it's usually like that but we don't know what changes the casino will make. For this reason, we must try to find out for ourselves. If we have done KYC, it seems like everything will be fine, but who knows?

Do you actually do that yourself, or just decided it's a smart thing to preach to others? Do you actually dedicate a big chunk of your life to sit down and study all the ToSs of all the services that you use just to see if there have been any changes (do you run version compare in Word lol)?

Yes, reading entire ToSs is usually pointless, unless you want to learn about some specific rule that interests you, but for an average, regular user, that's not necessary and nobody does that in practice (yourself included).

I do it myself, but since I don't gamble too much, I don't need it because I only gamble for fun and not for the pursuit of winning. I don't need to read all the ToS of all services because I've seen several notifications sent to my email or when I log in to my account. If you are a real gambler, you certainly don't want to get into trouble just for not reading the changes in the rules, do you? Grin

Usually, the casino will notify all of its members if there is a change in the rules. The last time I looked at Stake, it popped up a window containing its latest rules and asking gamblers to agree to them.

pawel7777

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Quote from: maydna on June 21, 2023, 10:38:06 AM

How come it's a waste of time? It's worth doing to see if there is a change or you can also wait until there is notification from the casino about the change in the rules. Perhaps, once a month could be the time to read the rules. After all, it's for your own good rather than later regret because of a rule change.

Well, it's usually like that but we don't know what changes the casino will make. For this reason, we must try to find out for ourselves. If we have done KYC, it seems like everything will be fine, but who knows?

Do you actually do that yourself, or just decided it's a smart thing to preach to others? Do you actually dedicate a big chunk of your life to sit down and study all the ToSs of all the services that you use just to see if there have been any changes (do you run version compare in Word lol)?

Yes, reading entire ToSs is usually pointless, unless you want to learn about some specific rule that interests you, but for an average, regular user, that's not necessary and nobody does that in practice (yourself included).

maydna

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Quote from: Jawhead999 on June 19, 2023, 08:57:00 AM

Quote from: maydna on June 19, 2023, 08:48:17 AM

If they never want to check the rules, they can miss the information if there is a change in the rules, and they can have difficulties when they want to withdraw the money. Even though we don't chase victory either, we also have to check the rules regularly to adjust properly because if we are lucky, we can win a lot of money. And if we don't check the rules before playing and it turns out that we win a lot of money, that can make us have to do something to be able to withdraw the winning money. So there's nothing wrong if we check the rules so we won't be disappointed later.

Terms of service in any regulated site is really long and you need to spend for at least 30 minutes to read an entire rules. The question is, how regular you read the whole terms? everyday? every week? every month? it's time wasting if your life is only used to read the casino terms.

Usually a regulated casino terms is similar to each other, they will ask to submit KYC including ask video or live, if you don't want to fulfill it, you will not able to withdraw your big winnings.

How come it's a waste of time? It's worth doing to see if there is a change or you can also wait until there is notification from the casino about the change in the rules. Perhaps, once a month could be the time to read the rules. After all, it's for your own good rather than later regret because of a rule change.

Well, it's usually like that but we don't know what changes the casino will make. For this reason, we must try to find out for ourselves. If we have done KYC, it seems like everything will be fine, but who knows?

Sanitough

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Quote from: delfastTions on June 21, 2023, 02:27:59 AM

I think that the authorities are simply not able to keep track of the many casinos in general in the global gambling industry, since there are so many of these casinos themselves and they are all registered in different jurisdictions.

The thing is, if a casino is registered in a different jurisdiction, it may not be regulated by the local authorities. The authorities would only be able to take action if there are complaints from gamblers that they can investigate. However, the problem is that most gamblers are reluctant to file a case, especially if the amount involved is not significant and it would require investing their time.

That's why communities like bitcointalk exist. They provide a platform where we can give feedback on casinos with bad reputations, allowing people to avoid them.

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Quote from: Haunebu on June 21, 2023, 12:41:25 AM

Quote from: pawel7777 on June 20, 2023, 12:09:00 PM

And if they operate legally and screwed people unintentionally, then you'd expect authorities to eventually step in and order them to make the players whole.

The authorities cannot really do much to anonymous crypto gambling sites operating discreetly from around the world which is one of the biggest pros and cons of crypto gambling in my honest opinion.

Many victims tried to file lawsuits against scammy crypto gambling sites and failed primarily due to this particular issue.

I think that the authorities are simply not able to keep track of the many casinos in general in the global gambling industry, since there are so many of these casinos themselves and they are all registered in different jurisdictions. Some of these casinos have licenses, such as the Curacao license, some say they have a license and even show a scanned copy of the document, although this is a fake, some do not mention licensing at all. So in general, in the flow of this information, which is generally a mixture of truth and lies, and as a rule there are more lies, it is extremely difficult to calculate and take response measures from law enforcement officers. And there is also the problem of the territorial registration of the casino or false registration.

I hope the authorities and law enforcement officers will guess with time and the development of technical progress to connect AI to the search for calculations and blocking casinos that have at least the slightest signs of fraud. There is only one hope that here AI will help humanity.

Although I'm not at all sure that scammers will not be able to deceive AI either.

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Quote from: pawel7777 on June 20, 2023, 12:09:00 PM

And if they operate legally and screwed people unintentionally, then you'd expect authorities to eventually step in and order them to make the players whole.

The authorities cannot really do much to anonymous crypto gambling sites operating discreetly from around the world which is one of the biggest pros and cons of crypto gambling in my honest opinion.

Many victims tried to file lawsuits against scammy crypto gambling sites and failed primarily due to this particular issue.

GiftedMAN

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Quote from: Blitzboy on June 19, 2023, 03:02:03 AM

Quote from: khaled0111 on June 18, 2023, 05:58:00 PM

Quote from: lienfaye on June 18, 2023, 12:20:02 AM

Many gamblers are not reading the rules and just acknowledge it to create an account. It's quite normal for many of us to directly play and not taking time to read what's written on their ToS thinking that casinos are often have similar ToS. This is the player's fault if he/she is not aware of the rules for being lazy.

In that case, if you break one of the rules out of ignorance and the casino bans your account or confiscate your money then there is no one to blame but yourself.
The good thing about casinos is that they have pretty much the same terms except minor differences. So when reading the ToS you have to focus only on what concerns you and what you believe might be different from the casino's you are familiar with.

Overlooking a casino's rules, deliberately or accidentally, can invite unwanted outcomes. Many casinos do share similar service terms, but we should stay alert to subtle differences. Prioritizing the review of clauses affecting our gaming or transactions is wise. Let's remember, gambling is about balancing risk and reward. Knowing the game's rules and playing sensibly can enhance enjoyment while reducing risks.

The terms and conditions are meant to guide every gamblers on making the right choice and following the already set down rules so that they can bet in the type of games they like without breaching at rules. It is important for us to always check the terms and see if there is any changes even though we are not notified about any changes in the terms we are ought to follow. It a sense of manipulation if a casino is not updating there terms and informing customers at the same time to check it out and keep abiding by the rules.

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Quote from: uneng on June 19, 2023, 04:38:51 PM

As far as I know casinos have to ask users to agree with terms and conditions once again every time they make changes on it, doesn't matter how little they are, just like banks and every other services do. Moreover, a timeframe must be presented for users to cashout their funds, if they disagree the new terms.

Exactly, it's not limited to casinos, but it goes to pretty much any online service. But that's assuming such service operates in compliance with the law, and there are plenty of casinos that operate illegally or half-legally (which is not necessarily a bad thing though).

Quote from: Haunebu on June 20, 2023, 11:32:06 AM

Most victims are usually small scale gamblers who cannot do much after getting screwed over, but they can still harm the site thanks to the proof that they collected within this forum and other sites.

I think if the casino is trying to pull a scam, it would be easier to screw few big players than hundreds of small ones, as in the latter scenario, a larger group of victims would make much more noise online and the word would spread much faster.
From the legal perspective: if casino has chosen to pull up a scam, they wouldn't care about any legal action anyway. And if they operate legally and screwed people unintentionally, then you'd expect authorities to eventually step in and order them to make the players whole.

Topic: Using ToS against users normal? - page 12. (Read 2954 times)